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NYP: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON FLIGHT 800?-- NATIONAL GEO AND THE LI MYSTERY
New York Post ^ | January 29, 2008 | Linda Stasi

Posted on 01/29/2008 12:45:23 PM PST by OESY

...Tonight's "The Final Report: Investigation of TWA Flight 800" on National Geographic Channel presents a brilliant, well-researched look into what the investigators found - and what they didn't find.

The show details the animosity that existed from day one between the NTSB and the FBI.

The NTSB is usually the final word in all air crashes. But because a number of eyewitnesses on the ground saw streaks flying towards the aircraft right before it exploded, and air traffic controllers reporting blips around the aircraft, the FBI came in and took over the investigation, calling it a possible crime.

There were immediately three prevailing theories. One was friendly fire. The US Navy runs weapons training exercises in a 300-mile-wide swath near the flight path.

The second held that it could have been terrorists with ground-to-air missiles.

The third was that there had been a bomb on board.

The producers interview most of the players in the investigation including eyewitnesses; Robert Francis, the former chairman of the NTSB who was not happy to have the FBI crawling over his investigation; James Kallstrom of the FBI, who knew that 747s just don't randomly blow up; Leon Panetta, then-White House Chief of Staff; as well as cops who dove for the wreckage, like Vincente Termine.

After this show, you may trust the government even less than you do now. Or you may think they are as honest as they possibly could be in simply admitting that they just don't know.

Whatever you conclude, you won't conclude that National Geographic didn't do a very thorough job. Great reporting.

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 800; clinton; fbi; ntsb; twa800; twaflight800
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To: bobsatwork
You cannot really expect the police to have located the witnesses, conducted all their interviews, and filed all their written reports within three and a half hours of the crash. Do you really think all these disparate people pretended they saw essentially the same thing based in interviews within days of the event. What would they have based their reports upon? Was it a giant conspiracy, or did they all have the same dream within a day or two? What?

ML/NJ

151 posted on 01/30/2008 7:45:41 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

They vilified Pierre Salinger for the missile theory.


152 posted on 01/30/2008 9:15:57 AM PST by sono (You fight campaigns with the politicians you have.)
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To: ml/nj
You cannot really expect the police ... No, I don't think that at all. I do think that if, say, five people called the NYTimes, CBS, police, Fox, Drudge, etc, all saying "I saw a missile", it would have been reported. On July 17 or 18. News orgs have no problem repoting "witnesses claim seeing..." type of stories, and police have no problem reporting they are following up on witness reports, without waiting to complete investigations (almost daily I hear stories like "police are investigating claims that shots were heard", or similar). What do I think? I think on the night of the 17th witnesses saw something they did not understand - a ball of fire (maybe two), a streak of light. THEN they heard about TWA800, and the widely held suspicion of a bomb or missile, and then concluded that the streak they saw was a missile. And, no, I don't think they are liars, drunks, hallucinating, etc.
153 posted on 01/30/2008 9:22:13 AM PST by bobsatwork
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To: DoughtyOne
I have to tell you, I would sooner retirn and spill my gutts than do what he may have been forced into.

But would you prefer to bury one or more family members?

154 posted on 01/30/2008 11:30:12 AM PST by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: nina0113

Aw come on, you don’t think the Clintons or better yet their shaddow enforcers would be involved in something like that do you? ;-)

Yes, that is the reality isn’t it.


155 posted on 01/30/2008 11:40:06 AM PST by DoughtyOne (PARTY WANTED: Full Time, Proven Cons exp a must. Refs going bk 20 yrs. Amnesty sptrs need not apply.)
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To: ml/nj

Agreed.

Anyone that has done any inspections of large fuel tanks is that there’s a ‘sweet zone’ in which an explosion can occur. The amount of fuel left in the tank means very little. It’s the ration of fuel to air in correspondence with the volume. Too much fuel vapor, and air becomes too saturated to sustain combustion, too little and it won’t either.

I found the ‘bare wire in the CFT’ a pretty thin final cause. 747’s are built to take abuse. Fact is, for whatever reason, we are never going to know what happened. I’m fairly certain it had nothing to do with wires in fuel tanks.


156 posted on 01/30/2008 11:58:43 AM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: RaceBannon
Nope. A shoulder fired missile just does not have the propellant to get that high up.
157 posted on 01/30/2008 3:39:08 PM PST by mfish13
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To: mfish13

Yes, thwe more modern ones do. The REDEYE didn’t, but the SA-11 and upo do and so do the modern Stingers

That is only straight up, though, slant range, not zigging to catch something jinking and still get over 12 Angels.


158 posted on 01/30/2008 7:08:26 PM PST by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty; The Pendleton 8: We are not going down without a fight)
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To: null and void

You didn’t say Muslims you said Arabs. Lebanese, Jordanians & Egyptians are Arab whatever their religion might be.


159 posted on 01/30/2008 8:28:49 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter

I thought you were bright enough to get the underlying message.

I guess not.

Focus on one word, miss the point.

*sigh*


160 posted on 01/30/2008 9:12:21 PM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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To: OESY

Passenger manifest:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/CRASH/TWA/PASSENGERS.html


161 posted on 01/30/2008 9:16:56 PM PST by petitfour
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To: READINABLUESTATE
I think it was a shoulder fired missile, and it was covered up in the interest of national security.

Me too. Or maybe, in response to the accidental shooting down of one of their passenger jets, Iranians did it. And maybe our liberal "they think they're GOD" CIA types allowed the "books to be balanced". And told the FBI to leave it alone. Nothing else makes sense except maybe the fuel tank really did just exploded...

162 posted on 01/30/2008 9:25:44 PM PST by GOPJ (Robert Byrd, George Wallace,“Bull” Connor- all Democrat Racists - Clintoons added to list. 230FMJ)
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To: mitchbert

I have heard him say that too. But in the program I was listening to (after 9/11) he had prefaced the conversation that day, with a list of terrorist acts which included not only the 1st WTC attack, the embassy bombings, but also TWA flight 800, and then there was a station break. He seemed totally unaware of what he had just admitted, and no one brought it up after the break.


163 posted on 01/30/2008 9:38:48 PM PST by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: null and void

I get your point, I just don’t think it is a very good one. Are we supposed to think that all of the Arabs/Muslims WTC workers stayed home from work that day? Were they were all in on it?

From what I have read 15 of the 19 hijackers didn’t even know it was a suicide mission. Do you expect me to believe that AQ informed all of the stock traders and bankers who came from Muslim countries to be away that day?

I suspect there were few Arab/Muslim victims only because there were few working at WTC. Iraq, Afghanistan & Pakistan have showed us that AQ cares nothing about killing their co-religionists.


164 posted on 01/30/2008 9:48:58 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: petitfour
Thank you for posting this manifest. Strangely, it's the first time I had seen it. I hadn't realized that a co-worker of mine had been aboard. I had left TWA at the late 70s.

.

165 posted on 01/31/2008 5:16:06 AM PST by OESY
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To: Straight Vermonter
Are we supposed to think that all of the Arabs/Muslims WTC workers stayed home from work that day? Were they were all in on it?

Ya know what? You did get it!

1) There were several reports her on FR about a schoolboy across the river from the WTC who looked out the window, an told his teacher that it would be gone in a few days. His brother quickly dragged him away telling the teacher that he 'has a vivid imagination'.

That tidbit pretty much vanished down the memory hole.

2) One of the NYC papers published a list of fatalities by religion among the WTC victims. I never saw it but this was told to me by a usually trustworthy FReeper.

This information is no longer available. It is so far down the memory hole that not only has the article itself vanished, there is no information available on line about the religions represented in the population of the dead.

Don't believe it? I tried to compile such a list. It can't be done. That is why my list was painstaking compiled by nationality, not religion.

I defy you to find any list or statistical information on the faiths of the WTC victims.

Think about it.

Not one non-hijacker muslim fatality has ever been held out as an example of how islam suffered in the 9/11 attacks! Not one. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Doesn't that strike you as maybe just a *little* odd, given how quickly islam unites behind any perceived insult or threat, hmmmmm?

3) Yet another FReeper reported walking into a muslim run cafe in NYC on 9/11 and seeing the crowd of muslim clientele watching the coverage on TV. OK, we all did that. But we didn't cheer every time they replayed the Towers falling. They did.

So yes. Let me put this in crystal clear terms:

It is my considered opinion, based on their actions before, during and after the 9/11 attacks that muslims in NYC were advised to stay away from the WTC on 9/11.

If this is true we are in a far, far worse position with regards to the 'War on Terror' than we most imagine.

I beg of you, find some evident to show me I am wrong.

166 posted on 01/31/2008 9:15:19 AM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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To: RinaseaofDs
Fact is, for whatever reason, we are never going to know what happened. I’m fairly certain it had nothing to do with wires in fuel tanks.

*sigh* Yeah.

167 posted on 01/31/2008 9:22:13 AM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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To: mfish13
Nope. A shoulder fired missile just does not have the propellant to get that high up.

Our warships are safe in Pearl Harbor because it's too shallow for air dropped torpedos.

168 posted on 01/31/2008 9:24:26 AM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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To: greeneyes

Yep. I heard that live, with my own ears.


169 posted on 01/31/2008 9:26:15 AM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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To: null and void
I can’t tell you anything that relates to 9/11. What I can tell you is that the major terror bust in the US since 9/11 have been due to Muslim tipsters. The Fort Dix plot and the JFK plot, just to name 2, were stopped because someone (a Muslim) heard about the plan and went to the authorities. I don’t believe that thousands of US Muslims knew about 9/11 and no one said anything.

Don’t get me wrong I think we have a big problem with so called homegrown terrorists and sympathizers. I just am not willing to believe that a project that was so well planned and executed like 9/11 was risked by letting it become so well known. I think at least some of those stories about Muslims in cafes etc are simply urban legend. I know that snopes has articles about several of them.

170 posted on 01/31/2008 4:51:21 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Chicos_Bail_Bonds

07- Jack O’Hara, 39, of Irv., N.Y., executive producer at ABC Sports;
08 Janet O’Hara, wife
09 Caitlin O’Hara, 13, daughter

From: Newsday

And producer Jack O’Hara had a pink slip in hand, en route to
covering the finale of the Tour de France bicycle race for the
last time as an ABC Sports executive producer. O’Hara hated
flying and traveled by car or train whenever possible. His wife,
Jane, and daughter, Caitlin, took the flight with him.

http://tinyurl.com/2lfouf


171 posted on 01/31/2008 5:00:14 PM PST by kcvl
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To: Straight Vermonter
I don’t believe that thousands of US Muslims knew about 9/11 and no one said anything.

Nor do I.

It's more like all the students know there's going to be a fight after school, no one tells any teachers. After all, 'those two getting a couple black eyes' might not be a bad thing.

Then one of 'those two' ends up in the morgue.

Funny thing, next time the students know there's going to be an after school fight, a few of them tell their teachers.

172 posted on 01/31/2008 5:42:31 PM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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To: Straight Vermonter

The Fort Dix plot tipster’s name is Brian Morgenstern. Sounds very muslim, not.


173 posted on 01/31/2008 5:47:12 PM PST by bvw
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To: BabsC

Actually, the first day or two there were reports about a second explosion that registered on a richter scale and then the collapse registered. After 24-36 hours you never heard about it again.


174 posted on 01/31/2008 7:31:16 PM PST by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: bvw

You are right, I confused that case with another one. It may be the Lackawanna group that I was thinking of.


175 posted on 01/31/2008 7:38:38 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Jaded
Wasn’t there a recording being made at a meeting nearby that recorded what was later said to be the whump of high yield explosives then the sound of the blast of the low yield explosives in the truck? That was on the internet but I never heard it reported by the media. I also understand the BATF was about to be disbanded until this “attack”.
176 posted on 02/01/2008 5:30:06 AM PST by BabsC
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To: null and void

Silly reply. Not comparable.


177 posted on 02/01/2008 11:20:11 AM PST by mfish13
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To: null and void

Silly reply. Not comparable.


178 posted on 02/01/2008 11:20:14 AM PST by mfish13
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To: mfish13

That was worth repeating.

YMMV...


179 posted on 02/01/2008 12:20:01 PM PST by null and void (Conservatism. It's the new Black...)
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