Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Divided views as US fence goes up
BBC News ^ | 1/31/08 | Duncan Kennedy

Posted on 01/31/2008 12:39:40 PM PST by mdittmar

Of all the issues in this year's US presidential election, immigration is the one that touches the rawest of Democratic and Republican nerves.

After last year's failure by President George W Bush to get his comprehensive immigration plan past Congress, it has become fertile and divisive ground for candidates in the race.

But there is one area of immigration policy that is proceeding, despite the political stalemate: the building of the border fence between the US and Mexico.

Hundreds of kilometres are under construction along the US's southern frontier.

Estimates for the cost of the project have ranged from $2bn to $10bn (£1bn to £5bn).

Military-tested

Flying by helicopter some 100m (330ft) above the fence, it can sometimes be hard to see.

In the section along Arizona's border with Mexico I went to examine, the barrier appears like a thin black line snaking along the desert floor below.

Once you fix your eyes on the line, it becomes clear this is one area where building is racing ahead.

Roughly a mile of fencing is being erected every month here.

Areas of once-untouched desert are now disappearing under a lengthening slice of man-made fencing.

After setting down, we were able to get up close to the men and machines making the new fence.

Coast to coast, from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico, some 300 miles (500km) of barrier are completed, with another 700 miles (1100km) set to go up by the end of this year.

The fence itself is an impressive, sun-blocking, engineering feat.

Agent Jose Gonzalez of the Arizona Border Patrol tells me each 4-metre-high (13ft) panel can withstand a car impact at 45mph (70 km/h).

"It's been tested using the military's armoured vehicles," he says. "We think it will withstand pretty much any migrant car or truck."

In other places, where the terrain is more suited, electronic sensors, not walls, are being installed.

But whatever "asset" is being constructed, to use Agent Gonzalez's term, it all raises the same question of whether it will work.

"It won't stop everyone," is his honest answer.

"But we believe most migrants will be deterred".

Agent Gonzalez later drives us parallel to this gigantic metallic barrier. You can see through its grey bars. Just across the ravine inside Mexico we spot a man.

When he sees the fence and us, he changes his mind about crossing and runs off.

He is not the only one deciding he needs a plan B. In some places where the wall has been completed, and where extra border patrols are in place, illegal crossings are down by as much as 60% compared with a year ago.

The days when Mexicans, Nicaraguans, Salvadorians and others could step over flimsy strips of barbed wire to begin a new life in the US are now numbered.

'Just for the US'

The fence is part of President Bush's attempts to convince Congress he is tough on immigration.

Congress gave him the go ahead for his fence but not his policy on dealing with the estimated 11 million undocumented migrants already in the US.

That unfinished business has turned into a key issue in this year's presidential race.

In some states, it is the social topic of the 2008 campaign.

We later cross into Mexico to find the fence is just as controversial, but for very different reasons. Here, it has been likened to the Berlin wall.

"What do you think of it?" I ask Marco, a Mexican, deported from America and now trying to get back into a country where hourly wages are up to 10 times those in Mexico.

"It's unfair" is his simple reply.

Marco stands dwarfed by the new border fence in front of him, but not, it seems, by the task ahead.

"Some will slip through," he says, "and I hope to be one of them."

We then climb inside one of the orange pick-up trucks used by a migrant help group, Grupo Beta.

The group, set up by the Mexican government, takes us along the fence on the Mexican side. We go past migrants straining to look up at the immense structure before them.

Enrique Enriquez from Grupo Beta tries to be diplomatic when I ask him what he thinks of the wall.

"It's fair for them, it's fair for the United States," he says.

"But maybe it's unjust this side. It's for the protection of the United States. It's just for them."

Opinion polls in the US suggest this belated attempt to physically halt unchecked immigration is popular.

Many millions of figurative horses may have bolted, but this barn door is now being very firmly shut.

Less clear is what to do with those migrants who have already made it through illegally. The outcome of this year's election may help decide that.

For now, the US is a country that is putting in place a border, but not yet a policy.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegals; immigrantlist; wot
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-86 last
To: avacado

The “immigration bill” was a total sell-out of our country. And it’s “Miss Williams” to you, sir.


51 posted on 01/31/2008 1:32:19 PM PST by teawithmisswilliams (Basta, already!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Southack
If it monitors those who infiltrate past the physical barrier...and leads to them being apprehended...IMHO it becomes a part of a barrier system in depth. Or call it a Border Enforcement System or some such

But, we can nitpick on and on. The idea that an electronic barrier can be put in place is one that would be best served only, IMHO, when it complimented a good strong physical barrier like the double fence.

52 posted on 01/31/2008 1:32:25 PM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: teawithmisswilliams
"The “immigration bill” was a total sell-out of our country. And it’s “Miss Williams” to you, sir."

Miss Sweet'thang, it's the Republican Party in both Houses who killed the immigration bill.


53 posted on 01/31/2008 1:33:48 PM PST by avacado
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: mdittmar

Wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m just at the end of my rope with the digust that acompanies the mere mention of it.


54 posted on 01/31/2008 1:34:51 PM PST by DoughtyOne (PARTY WANTED: Full Time, Cons exp a must. Refs 20 yrs. No Amnesty sptrs. 1 vote per 4 yrs negotiable)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head

Monitoring is good.

The fence is good.

Do both.

That’s defense.

Now, for “defense in depth,” we would then need a physical barrier (personnel and/or obstacles) to the rear of the above.


55 posted on 01/31/2008 1:34:59 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Southack
Fine...I am game for that too. But, IMHO, monitoring that is backed up by warm bodies on the ground that interdict the intruders is also defense.

Round and round and round we go.

56 posted on 01/31/2008 1:36:37 PM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
Sure thing.

There are at least four comments on this thread all positing the same thing: that work on the fence is being worked linearly one piece at a time. Reserve your /ss for them.

57 posted on 01/31/2008 1:36:38 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: teawithmisswilliams
"The “immigration bill” was a total sell-out of our country."

It was defeated.

Are you capable of admitting in public who defeated it (wait, lemme guess, the American people...anyone but the GOP, right?!)?

58 posted on 01/31/2008 1:36:45 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: avacado
You mean conservative Republicans, not the Republican Establishment, of course. Your "arguments" are even less persuasive than your insults. Good bye.
59 posted on 01/31/2008 1:37:43 PM PST by teawithmisswilliams (Basta, already!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Southack

See 59.


60 posted on 01/31/2008 1:38:39 PM PST by teawithmisswilliams (Basta, already!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

It was my opinion that you were pointing out the fact that even if multiple teams are working on this project at one mile per year, it would still take 58 years to build.

I think your’s was a humorous way to tell it just like it is.

I agree with you. It’s my take we’re being placated with an effort that really isn’t going anywhere. We’ll see.


61 posted on 01/31/2008 1:45:04 PM PST by DoughtyOne (PARTY WANTED: Full Time, Cons exp a must. Refs 20 yrs. No Amnesty sptrs. 1 vote per 4 yrs negotiable)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: mdittmar

Our newest DemocRAT Senator from Ohio, Sherrod Brown, told me “Lets deal with amnesty first, then we can discuss how high the fence should be and how many border patrol folks we need.” I told him he was full of sh**.


62 posted on 01/31/2008 1:45:17 PM PST by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, but DemocRATs believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

Agreed. Hopefully the fence is fully built and turns out to be effective.


63 posted on 01/31/2008 1:48:19 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: teawithmisswilliams

59 can’t apply to me because I didn’t insult you.


64 posted on 01/31/2008 1:49:08 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Thanks. Yes, we can both share that hope. Take care.


65 posted on 01/31/2008 1:50:49 PM PST by DoughtyOne (PARTY WANTED: Full Time, Cons exp a must. Refs 20 yrs. No Amnesty sptrs. 1 vote per 4 yrs negotiable)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

try a size one fonts, it is better for the blind people to read !!


66 posted on 01/31/2008 1:50:53 PM PST by Mojohemi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Mojohemi

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1962767/posts?page=61#61


67 posted on 01/31/2008 1:52:48 PM PST by DoughtyOne (PARTY WANTED: Full Time, Cons exp a must. Refs 20 yrs. No Amnesty sptrs. 1 vote per 4 yrs negotiable)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Resolute Conservative
>> “What do you think of it?” I ask Marco, a Mexican, deported from America and now trying to get back into a country where hourly wages are up to 10 times those in Mexico. “It’s unfair” is his simple reply.<<

Now.................

I hope the following 14 reasons are read so many times that the readers get sick of reading them. I have included the URL’s for verification of the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Homeland Security Report
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf

12. The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. ‘The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States’.
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals

The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR !

68 posted on 01/31/2008 1:53:26 PM PST by B4Ranch ((Don't forget to say a prayer for our soldiers out there in harm's way. ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: B4Ranch

Nice post. The fence is a bargain compared to continuing to serve as Mexico’s dept. of health, education & welfare, and employment office.
But a fence is a sort of challenge to a neighbor. What would you do if you put up a `privacy fence’, or just a 4’ chain link fence, and your neighbor just ignored it and climbed over it or damaged it by cutting holes in it or cutting it down, or destroyed it in his determination to gain access to your yard or home?
You would call the police. So who do we call when this fence is half-completed and a good part of Mexico is still emptying into our country through Arizona, New Mexico and Texas?
McCain? Obama or Clinton?


69 posted on 01/31/2008 2:01:39 PM PST by tumblindice (A salient attribute of a nation's sovereignty is its ability to control its own borders.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: HardStarboard

A mile of fence “here”. To make it fit with the “end of this year” phrase implies to me that there is more than just this work crew “here” working on the fence. I suppose about 60 different work crews/sections (700/12 miles/year). I hope so anyway!

And continued increased ICE enforcement that we have already seen under Bush at businesses and farm fields should get lots of illegals to leave just based on the fear of getting caught. Unless McCain or the Dems call it all off.

This problem that has been ongoing for 30 years will not get solved overnight - but with a completed fence and enforcement of existing laws I think it will be on its way. And yes there will be increased produce costs, etc. until the market can get that figured out.


70 posted on 01/31/2008 2:02:34 PM PST by geopyg (Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: B4Ranch

Staggering!


71 posted on 01/31/2008 2:05:58 PM PST by Tex Pete
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

True, but how many teams are we talking? Are we now looking at ‘only’ 10, 20, 30 years? All of these certainly would count as “too long” in my book (since, again, we are only talking about 700 miles of a border that is many times that size.)


72 posted on 01/31/2008 2:10:09 PM PST by ECM (Government is a make-work program for lawyers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62

Heh, I’m so used to these contradictions from liberals that I missed that one. Good job pointing it out.


73 posted on 01/31/2008 2:12:32 PM PST by dan1123 (You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. --Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: teawithmisswilliams

Was the immigrtion bill defeated by the Republican Party! YES!

Adios!


74 posted on 01/31/2008 2:14:43 PM PST by avacado
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: mdittmar

Divided 67% for and 33% against?


75 posted on 01/31/2008 2:15:33 PM PST by CPT Clay (Drill ANWR, Personal Accounts NOW , Vote Hunter in the Primary)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

—— Roughly a mile of fencing is being erected every month here. ——

Yeah, that just jumps out at you, doesn’t it?

Well, it’s better than nothing being done. How about we hire two crews and make it a mile/month in each direction? That should be doable.

To show I’n not an inflexible idealogue, I’ll agree to allowing Illegal Immigrant labor being used, with the requirement they are on the south side of the fence when it’s finished.


76 posted on 01/31/2008 2:59:06 PM PST by citizen (Capt. McQueeg: "Have any of you an explanation for the quart of missing strawberries?" (click-clack))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: mdittmar

The Great Wall took less time to erect than this fence.


77 posted on 01/31/2008 2:59:32 PM PST by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
There are at least four comments on this thread all positing the same thing: that work on the fence is being worked linearly one piece at a time. Reserve your /ss for them.

Did the writer say that there was one mile of fence a month going up. Yes that is what he said. Now give us a link to the other contractors and how many miles they are putting up a month. The fact is there has been so many untruths told about the fence construction, I would need to see pictures before I would believe anything.

So where is the link and pictures of where the fence is under construction and how many miles have been built since the fence bill was signed by jorge. But my post was a joke, like the fence construction so far has been a joke. Sorry you did not get it.

78 posted on 01/31/2008 3:11:05 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: tumblindice

>So who do we call when this fence is half-completed and a good part of Mexico is still emptying into our country through Arizona, New Mexico and Texas?
McCain? Obama or Clinton?<

None of the above. Mitt or Paul. Myself, I’d call Paul.


79 posted on 01/31/2008 4:13:56 PM PST by B4Ranch ((Don't forget to say a prayer for our soldiers out there in harm's way. ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1962866/posts?page=5


80 posted on 01/31/2008 6:20:30 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: B4Ranch
"Border Reality 101"

This is what most of our southern border looks like: there is no government-built fence at all. There is often just whatever is left over from some forgotten cattle fence, built privately to keep U.S. cattle from wandering freely into Mexico. For hundreds of miles there is not even a broken cattle fence, there is nothing at all.

For comparison, below the broken cattle fence photo is a sample of an inexpensive but highly effective double border fence system, with a plowed strip to reveal footprints. This type of system is very cheap and can be built with great speed.

Here is what some of San Diego County has: a wall made of rusty Viet Nam-era runway mats. The corrugations are even horizontal, (to make climbing easier?)

Here is what the border looks like where the runway mat wall exists. Mexico begins on the other side of the ineffective rusty wall, which actually helps the smugglers, by hiding their movements until the occasional USBP vehicle has driven out of sight.

This is how "the game" is played. Smugglers hide on the other side of the wall with their dope and/or their illegals, out of sight of the USBP. They wait for the highly visible white BP vehicle to drive over the distant hills. Lookouts with cell phones and walkie-talkies report on the current locations of the BP units. They know with certainty that "the coast is clear" for an hour or two, and the smugglers and illegals hop the fence and run into the scrub only 50 yards away. From there, they are out of sight, and they walk 1-2 miles to holding houses. Then they wait for nightfall, and are picked up and driven in vans to LA or San Diego.

Next, we see the Duncan Hunter 15' fence, which is already being built along a few "showplace" miles of San Diego, mainly near the ports of entry, where panderng politicians can conveniently show it off to gullible reporters. As you can see, the rusty runway wall is seen at the left side, Mexico begins on the other side. In areas with the 15 foot fence, dope smugglers and illegals will have to cross the open sand ("the government road" as it is called) before starting to try to get over the 15 foot fence.

This new fence is extremely tough, and resists cutting. Attacking the fence would have to be done right out in the open, in full view of cameras. This type of fence, on the U.S. side of the government road, will give the USBP a barrier to patrol, instead of forcing them to chase illegals around 100,000 square miles of wide-open frontier land, which is a fool's errand. Everywhere this modern multiple fence system has been built, crossings by illegals drop to almost nil.

This ain't rocket science, folks. We're not talking about something like the Hoover Dam project, (which we managed to build 70 years ago). The world's last superpower, which put a man on the moon 35 years ago, can build a couple thousand miles of simple and effective fencing.

This is how it's being built in San Diego county, along the last 14 miles out to the ocean. The total cost of the entire fence from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific would be about 5 billion dollars, or what we spend medicating, hospitalizing, educating, and incarcerating illegal aliens just about every month. In other words, the fence would pay for itself immediately.

Or, we can continue our current policy.


81 posted on 01/31/2008 8:17:12 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
Really I'd like to call the SeaBees in to come and build the darn fence.

"WE BUILD, WE FIGHT"
SEABEES CAN DO
WITH WILLING HEARTS AND SKILLFUL HANDS,
THE DIFFICULT WE DO AT ONCE,
THE IMPOSSIBLE TAKES A BIT LONGER

82 posted on 01/31/2008 8:28:50 PM PST by B4Ranch ((Don't forget to say a prayer for our soldiers out there in harm's way. ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: B4Ranch

Start 20 companies at once, working 100 miles apart, each company going in both directions. Finish in 6 months.


83 posted on 01/31/2008 8:43:17 PM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: G8 Diplomat
There is a 500 mile long border fence in Kashmir between India and Pakistan as well.


84 posted on 01/31/2008 8:47:55 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Straight Vermonter

North Korea has one too. Everyone gets it but our Congress, apparently.


85 posted on 01/31/2008 8:56:45 PM PST by G8 Diplomat (Creatures are divided into 6 kingdoms: Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Monera, Protista, & Saudi Arabia)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

Work 10 day shifts, the Team that stands in the most footage gets a three day weekend and you’ll build it in three months. SeaBees are competitive, especially against each other.


86 posted on 01/31/2008 8:57:14 PM PST by B4Ranch ((Don't forget to say a prayer for our soldiers out there in harm's way. ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-86 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson