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'Protect America violates Constitution' (More Ron Paul Lunacy)
presstv.ir ^

Posted on 02/16/2008 7:49:09 AM PST by no nau

Presidential hopeful Ron Paul opposes the extension of the Protect America Act of 2007 as the legislation violates the US Constitution.

"The misnamed Protect America Act allows the US government to monitor telephone calls and other electronic communications of American citizens without a warrant, which violates the Fourth Amendment," Paul said.

Speaking before the US House of Representatives on Wednesday, he said the Protect America Act sidelines the FISA Court system and places authority over foreign surveillance in the director of national intelligence and the attorney general with little if any oversight.

The 10-term congressman added that it does not provide for the Fourth Amendment protection of American citizens if they happen to be on the other end of an electronic communication where the subject of surveillance is a non-citizen overseas.

"We must remember that the original Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was passed in 1978 as a result of the US Senate investigations into the federal government's illegal spying on American citizens," said Paul.

The libertarian-leaning Texan noted that the only legitimate 'upgrade' to the original FISA legislation would be to allow surveillance of conversations that begin and end outside the United States between non-US citizens where the telephone call is routed through the United States.

"Congress should not use this opportunity to chip away at even more of our constitutional protections and civil liberties. I urge my colleagues to oppose this and any legislation that violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution," Paul concluded.

Constitutionalist Ron Paul is an outspoken critic of current US fiscal and monetary policies. He advocates a full troop withdrawal from Iraq and the abolishment of income taxes.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: 110th; fisa; paultards; ronpaul; surveillance
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To: Robwin
What makes me wonder even more is why you anti-Paul posters go on and on and on about the guy even though, as you correctly note, he hasn’t enough support to win the position of dog catcher.

Because conservatives need to bitch about the Left and keep "fighting" for conservatism, rather than seeing conservatism actually implemented and leftists respecting the Constitution, as a Dr. Paul administration would have done.

That is why Rush, Malkin, Hannity, the conservative websites, blogs, and pundits all trashed Paul or barely mentioned him. They need their meal ticket of constantly "railing" against the Left istead of watching victory unfold.

101 posted on 02/16/2008 11:10:27 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (The Constitution does not give me the authority to run your life - Ron Paul)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
...ooor it could be that Ron Paul has a fundamentally different understanding of the Constitution, human nature, and government than his critics, and thus they see his conclusions as being incorrect? Perhaps even provably incorrect?

A conspiracy is not to be assumed when it is not necessary to explain events. It could be, you must admit, that Dr. Congressman Ron Paul, BSC SSC* might just be getting static because he's perceived as just simply wrong.

*Bronze Swimming Certificate, Silver Swimming Certificate.

102 posted on 02/16/2008 11:19:00 AM PST by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Ron Paul...Mr Cut and Run isolationist.

I'd rather "cut and run" than stay and fight for 100 years like McCain proposed. If the job couldn't be finished in the seven years we've been there, then there's no use in staying. There's always going to be terrorists pal, regardless how long we stay there.

And in a general election when the majority of people want the troops to come home, Paul would have been a perfect candidate because he would have neutralized Hillary/Obama on the war. You don't think the Dems are going to play McCain's "100 years" clip continuously and paint him as a war-mongerer? He'll never get the independents to vote for him, and then you'll be stuck with Hillary/Obama who'll really F up things in Iraq.

Oh, he’s a racist with ties to WAR, et. al., too.

Yeah whatever. All of that has been debunked.

103 posted on 02/16/2008 11:19:40 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (The Constitution does not give me the authority to run your life - Ron Paul)
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To: Republicanus_Tyrannus
ooor it could be that Ron Paul has a fundamentally different understanding of the Constitution, human nature, and government than his critics, and thus they see his conclusions as being incorrect? Perhaps even provably incorrect?

No, the issue is that people enjoy statist, socialistic government and wasn't ready for significant change. Just the "change" that the Dems and the other Republicans were touting, more nibbling at the edges and tax rebate bread crumbs.

104 posted on 02/16/2008 11:22:54 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (The Constitution does not give me the authority to run your life - Ron Paul)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I'd rather "cut and run" than stay and fight for 100 years like McCain proposed. If the job couldn't be finished in the seven years we've been there,

Did you see the thread where Iran's president is fixing to visit Iraq? I reckon he wants to go and see what new toys he's soon to be getting on our dollar. Paul understands there is no dealing with those people. Staying out of there makes more sense than building them up military wise. We will never change their culture. Bush is wrong to think we can. Bush gives them the farm and says now you guys be good to each other ya hear? Don't make us spend more money on ya'll.

105 posted on 02/16/2008 11:25:08 AM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: no nau

Ron Paul is right and you are wrong. This authorizes snooping on American citizens. I’m old enough to remember when conservatives actually disrusted big government during the Bill Clinton era. Now.....they want to give his wife (or Obama) the power to violate our liberties. They trust big brother now. I wonder if they will also trust big sister when the time comes.


106 posted on 02/16/2008 11:28:34 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Baynative

Don’t worry. Hillary will love the Protect America Act. Conservatives will whine about how she uses it but then it will be too late.


107 posted on 02/16/2008 11:29:40 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I politely disagree, I believe you infer far too much distrust for your fellow Americans in your premises. I trust them more to do the right thing than you do, and I think most disagreements that you're upset about are not as extreme as you fear.

I fear what our Jacksonian tradition, our distinctly American culture will have to endure and respond to in the coming years. I'm less likely to focus on things that you see as main issues. This is primarily that I trust that we will continually discuss and modify these political solutions, hopefully towards a more acceptable, Constitutionally-sound result.

I think though, that the likelihood of getting to that point requires that our society not be burdened with a sudden 10 to 15 million person die-off. That tends to skew our normal political systems a bit.

I hope you understand why I may not agree with you yet hope I can still be considered to be faithful to the Constitution.

108 posted on 02/16/2008 11:33:00 AM PST by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: rb22982
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Bumped for truth.

109 posted on 02/16/2008 11:43:33 AM PST by Puddleglum
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To: Emperor Palpatine
If that means closing all mosques and arresting all imams, so be it.

Are you freaking kidding me?!?

110 posted on 02/16/2008 11:43:42 AM PST by jmc813 (Ron Paul is the only pro-lifer/non-gun grabber left running for President)
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To: Wolfie
Don’t worry about ol’ Rush, he’ll change his tune when Hillary’s in office. He knows how to serve up the Kool-Aid, all flavors.

Don't count on it.

In the aftermath of the Waco raid, before I'd come to my senses, I was an everyday listener to Rush. Not once did he have anything bad to say about the BATF, the FBI or Janet Reno.

I recall particularly his defending Janet Reno against John Conyer's verbal attacks during the first Senate hearings, not long after the Davidians were burned out. Wasn't it out of character, I thought, for Rush to be taking the Clinton Administration's side against an NRA-supported Democrat?

It took me until around July, 1993, to begin having doubts about the official story. Rush Limbaugh never has.

111 posted on 02/16/2008 11:45:17 AM PST by logician2u
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Oh, he’s a racist with ties to WAR, et. al., too.

By that standard, if they ever find out Kevin Bacon is a terrorist, we're all screwed.

112 posted on 02/16/2008 11:49:00 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: no nau
[ Isn't there some kind of loony bin that Paul and his 911 twoofer supporters can be shipped off to? ]

Paul is already in the loony bin its called AMERICA..
A republic trying to morph into a democracy(Mob Rule)..
He advocates some heroic surgery to restore the republic..

Socialism is caused by democracy.. and democracy is really Mob Rule by mobsters..
You know by an elite a duly elected Oligarchy.. like in China and U.S.S.R.

Socialism is SLAVERY BY GOVERNMENT..
Ron Paul HATES THAT... grasshopper...

113 posted on 02/16/2008 11:58:21 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: rb22982

It’s already here. Only it’s a Contract ON America... But because we’ve been sold a bill of goods on the “threat” of terrorism, and because it’s a Pubbie doing the selling, why all the good “conservatives” have swallowed down the Kool Aid and are right in step with their current marching orders.


114 posted on 02/16/2008 12:15:01 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: cva66snipe
The real sick joke is that neither Obama or Hillary will commit to troop withdrawals. The majority are going to vote for a Democrat who'll continue the war or fight it half-assed like the the liberals they are. It'll be the same thing, just under the guise of using our troops for "humanitarian" purposes. They'll end up going to Darfur and other hellholes. And more will end up being killed and it'll just strengthen the terrorists.

I'd rather have Paul who'll bring the troops home but at least he'll follow the brass advice and bring them home safely and ensure that Iraq is stabilized. He'll also leave behind a small contingent to go after bin Laden as well, than Hillary/Obama who'll talk about bringing the troops home but they continue the war in a haphazard fashion and appease the mullahs and dictators there. Paul would have completely beaten Hillary/Obama like a rented mule, the liberal media knew this and that's why he was blacked out and they also knew the right would attack Paul over the war as well. I just think America really pissed away a huge opportunity to return this nation back to limited government and the Constitution by not voting for Paul.

115 posted on 02/16/2008 12:44:44 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (The Constitution does not give me the authority to run your life - Ron Paul)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Terrorism per se is nothing new. Terrorism on the scale of 9/11 is. The potential for losing a city and half a million citizens in seconds makes the threat one that must be dealt with.

The stakes in the Cold War were the loss of every major urban center in America. And yet we did not suspend the Constitution and trash the Bill of Rights.

By any means necessary.

People like you are the reason the GOP deserves to lose the House, Senate and Presidency. Pity the Dems don´t deserve to win.

116 posted on 02/16/2008 1:30:03 PM PST by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I agree and I think they will have our troops wearing U.N. Blue. McCain will not win the election. A good portion of the GOP conservatives and Independents have had it with RNC. Paul has never been against going after the real threats bin Ladden etc. Other thing is Paul is by no means the only Conservative sounding the alarm on Bush policy. Jimmy Duncan-R-TN has some very informative and well written concerns about Iraq in his congressional web site. But those too get passed over by the media.

The MSM hates Constitutional Conservatives as does a majority of the GOP elected and RNC it seems. For that many career RINO’s may find themselves replaced by DEMs this election in both houses when people stay home or vote third party. I'll likely vote third myself again. Last GOP POTUS canidate I voted for was Dole and that cured me once and for all. If that is what it takes to rid the GOP of the RINO infestation and the Socialist death grip on the party then so be it. Maybe 4-8 years of DEM majority rule will open some eyes and ears. Then again maybe the nation as we know it is too far gone. People want Rush and Hannity etc to do their thinking for them.

117 posted on 02/16/2008 1:57:24 PM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: cva66snipe; AdamSelene235

Excellent points, well made. Pity the RNC shills won’t see it that way here.


118 posted on 02/16/2008 2:00:59 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: cva66snipe

Exactly right.

I believe that most people on the left haven’t much sense. Nonetheless, I must defend their rights because in so doing, I defend my rights. I think it’s legitimate and even admirable to be a dissenter, whether or not agree with the dissent itself. Constitutional rights exist to protect such people from the will of the majority.

On this issue, I would no doubt find some agreement from the so-called civil libertarians on DU. I’m not concerned by this. It welcome their agreement on this issue. It is precisely the people on the fringe of our political culture (right or left) who are threatened by the statists in both parties- I think of them as the “statist center”.

Now, if I could just get the DUmmies to agree with me on the 5th, 9th, and 10th amendments...


119 posted on 02/16/2008 3:40:23 PM PST by oblomov (Molok Obama is so inspirational. He inspires me to offshore assets & buy as many guns as I can.)
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To: Dustbunny
Yeah, it's so "crazy" to believe that an Orwellian Big Brother government that spies on its own citizens is unconstitutional and unAmerican.

I say God bless Ron Paul. He is the only one I trust to protect our rights and liberties that the rest of you bootlicking cheerleaders are handing over willingly.

120 posted on 02/16/2008 4:00:45 PM PST by incindiary
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To: oblomov
I believe that most people on the left haven’t much sense. Nonetheless, I must defend their rights because in so doing, I defend my rights. I think it’s legitimate and even admirable to be a dissenter, whether or not agree with the dissent itself. Constitutional rights exist to protect such people from the will of the majority.

From the minority came our freedom as a nation. The majority was content in their positions {business or political under the crown} that they were quite comfy with the crowns yoke. History shows us in many places where the outrage of tyranny triggered responses from minorities. This was true in the early 1900 coal wars where miners faced down the Tennessee Militia and it was true in the early 1960's to bring about racial equality as well. While some involved may have had less than honorable intent as does about any group as a whole they produced good results.

I can find common ground with groups like the ACLU or even senator Byrd as they are actually right on an issue once or twice a year :>} The ACLU may have a higher average due to volume of isues. Dissent or rather the right to dissent is a time honored tradition in this nation which is quickly being snuffed out by Political Correctness. Bill Lind and Brad Keena used to have a show called "The Next Revolution" where they addressed such issues. Lind can by no means be considered a kook as he is highly intelligent. Linds lecture on "The origins of Political Correctness" is a classic in itself and highly relevant to todays times.

121 posted on 02/16/2008 4:01:32 PM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: oblomov
Just wait until these so-called “tools” are used against conservative “terrorists” who want to threaten the unity and hope and big plans of a future Democratic administration. Then FR will be up in arms about these oppressive laws, if FR isn’t shut down, that is.

Ah, finally, some people get it!! Thank you.

122 posted on 02/16/2008 4:03:39 PM PST by incindiary
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To: cva66snipe

Thanks. I found the text of Lind’s speech online.


123 posted on 02/16/2008 4:13:00 PM PST by oblomov (Molok Obama is so inspirational. He inspires me to offshore assets & buy as many guns as I can.)
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To: oblomov
Thanks. I found the text of Lind’s speech online.

Ironic isn't it? They're winning the war they started in the 20's and 30's without a shot fired. Marxism, Socialism, or Communism, are all patient predators who will take years of slow infiltration into a political system to destroy it. It comes about so slow few ever realize it for what it truly is. Yet if a person who is say 50 years old takes the time to look at what has happened the change can indeed be seen. This is not the United States of my youth.

124 posted on 02/16/2008 4:18:50 PM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: cva66snipe
Reg post #43 and #57 - That's pretty much how I feel too, and thank you so much for having the courage to say it! It is almost surreal, to see what is going on, how people are being so blind and willingly giving up more and more of their rights and liberties, out of fear and manipulation. Fighting a "war on terror" while the borders remain open - what a farce.
125 posted on 02/16/2008 4:23:14 PM PST by incindiary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec4OL34Txys)
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To: AdamSelene235

The Russians had no intention of starting a nuclear Armageddon any more than we did throughout the Cold War. They were evil communist tyrants, but at heart reasonable people who knew Russia would cease to exist as we would in any such general exchange of nukes.

These terror-sponsoring despots, religious zealots, and nihilistic looney-tunes we now face have no such compunction about releasing the nuclear, (or bacteriological/chemical), genie from the bottle.

Times changed a little after 10:30 AM on September 11, 2001. Its high time we recognize that fact. The savages are still at war with us. In the words of Air Vice-Marshall Keith Park in September of 1940 during the first heavy Luftwaffe attack, “This is only the beginning, they won’t stop now.”


126 posted on 02/16/2008 4:40:37 PM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Emperor Palpatine
No times were as they were before actually. The nation didn't go into media and government generated mass hysteria is the difference. Tennessee Narrowly Dodged Bullet in Tense '72 Hijack Episode In 1976 I was able to board a plane in minutes before final call including baggage check through and carry on etc. A simple solution resolved the hijacking issue and effectively ended these type of threats. It didn't require a TSA just a man or two with a gun called a Sky Marshall. No ones rights were threatened and it worked quite well till security went lax. Of course after 9/11 Bush's people ruined that one also because someone got camera and publicity happy revealing the Marshalls operational secrets. Again where are the armed air crews?
127 posted on 02/16/2008 5:20:58 PM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
I have nothing to hide anyway. If they want to listen in on me ordering pizza from Vocelli’s, then they can be my guest.

Since you mentioned ordering pizza, you made me think of THIS.

128 posted on 02/16/2008 6:03:49 PM PST by murphE (I refuse to choose evil, even if it is the lesser of two.)
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To: rb22982
Sure, even if Bush is doing good with this, what’s to stop a Hillary or Obama administration from using this for other purposes?

It seems like quite a few "conservatives" are just fine with big intrusive government so long as "their guys" are in charge.

129 posted on 02/16/2008 6:09:18 PM PST by murphE (I refuse to choose evil, even if it is the lesser of two.)
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To: M203M4
I'm keeping all of these RP threads in pdf format for when a rat president gets some more of these swell "if you ain't done nothing wrong, you got nothing to hide" ideas. Those "abortion clinic terrorists", "right-wing gun nut militia groups", and those guilty of "hate crimes" (or even better, "hate terrorism") are going to come in real handy.

Too bad that when that time comes you will get no pleasure from being right and being able to say "we told you so". It will be too late.

130 posted on 02/16/2008 6:19:05 PM PST by murphE (I refuse to choose evil, even if it is the lesser of two.)
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To: tacticalogic
By that standard, if they ever find out Kevin Bacon is a terrorist, we're all screwed.

heh heh heh = D

131 posted on 02/16/2008 6:21:31 PM PST by murphE (I refuse to choose evil, even if it is the lesser of two.)
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To: incindiary
I say God bless Ron Paul. He is the only one I trust to protect our rights and liberties that the rest of you bootlicking cheerleaders are handing over willingly.

Can I get an Amen? AMEN!

132 posted on 02/16/2008 6:28:14 PM PST by murphE (I refuse to choose evil, even if it is the lesser of two.)
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To: cva66snipe; Emperor Palpatine
Then again maybe the nation as we know it is too far gone. People want Rush and Hannity etc to do their thinking for them.

Alas! Regardless of their doom,
The little victims play;
No sense have they of ills to come,
Nor care beyond today:
Yet see how all around ‘em wait
The ministers of human fate
And black Misfortune’s baleful train!
Ah, show them where in ambush stand,
To size their prey, the murderous band!
Ah, tell them they are men!

To each his sufferings: all are men,
Condemn’d alike to groan—
The tender for another’s pain,
Th’ unfeeling for his own.
Yet, ah! Why should they know their fate,
Since sorrow never comes too late,
And happiness too swiftly flies?
Thought would destroy their Paradise.
No more;--where ignorance is bliss,
‘Tis folly to be wise.

From hence, ye Beauties, undeceiv’d,
Know, one false step is ne’er retriev’d,
And be with caution bold.
Not all that tempts your wand’ring eyes
And heedless hearts is lawful prize,
Nor all, that glitters, gold.
GRAY

Instead of recognizing the State as "the common enemy of all well-disposed, industrious and decent men," the run of mankind, with rare exceptions, regards it not only as a final and indispensable entity, but also as, in the main, beneficent.

The mass-man, ignorant of its history, regards its character and intentions as social rather than anti-social; and in that faith he is willing to put at its disposal an indefinite credit of knavery, mendacity and chicane, upon which its administrators may draw at will. Instead of looking upon the State's progressive absorption of social power with the repugnance and resentment that he would naturally feel towards the activities of a professional-criminal organization, he tends rather to encourage and glorify it, in the belief that he is somehow identified with the State, and that therefore, in consenting to its indefinite aggrandizement, he consents to something in which he has a share - he is, pro tanto, aggrandizing himself.

The unquestioning, determined, even truculent maintenance of the attitude which Professor Ortega y Gasset so admirably describes, is obviously the life and strength of the State; and obviously too, it is now so inveterate and so widespread - one may freely call it universal - that no direct effort could overcome its inveteracy or modify it, and least of all hope to enlighten it.

This attitude can only be sapped and mined by uncountable generations of experience, in a course marked by recurrent calamity of a most appalling character. When once the predominance of this attitude in any given civilization has become inveterate, as so plainly it has become in the civilization of America, all that can be done is to leave it to work its own way out to its appointed end. The philosophic historian may content himself with pointing out and clearly elucidating its consequences, as Professor Ortega y Gasset has done, aware that after this there is no more that one can do.

"The result of this tendency," he says, "will be fatal.

133 posted on 02/17/2008 12:48:27 AM PST by KDD (Freedom begins between the ears. -- Edward Abbey)
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To: cva66snipe

Yep, I believe Republicans are going to lose in a landslide in congressional and senatorial seats this year and will probably lose the main election by 5-10%. They have no one to blame but themselves.


134 posted on 02/17/2008 5:26:24 AM PST by rb22982
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To: Emperor Palpatine

Hmmm...socialists can easily redefine “terrorist” and “enabler/sympathizer” to mean “gun owner”, “constutionalist”, “conservative”, “pro-lifer”. We need to be VERY careful about labelling people before they are given due process.

A popular communist tactic is to label anyone who disagrees with you as “insane”.

Your faith in the good intentions of the federal government is curious (especially here at FR), and quite inconsistent with anything I’ve ever studied from the Founders.


135 posted on 02/17/2008 10:24:19 AM PST by SecAmndmt
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To: rb22982

Yes.

My wife was visiting with a friend the other day who is involved in Southern Baptist ministry. Her friend told her that many of the 20-something “conservative” southern Baptists are planning on voting for Obama.

The communist government schools, and the feckless seeker churches have been very successful at instilling secular humanism in the minds of even the conservative Christian youth. Unfortunately, so-called “mainstream” establishment conservatism is also infected with moral relativism on so many issues. This CANNOT be blamed on the Dimocrats alone - we need to look in the mirror!


136 posted on 02/17/2008 10:32:47 AM PST by SecAmndmt
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To: Emperor Palpatine

Nothing like a supreme leader who is willing do “do something”/sarc

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin


137 posted on 02/17/2008 10:37:57 AM PST by SecAmndmt
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To: SecAmndmt
A recent survey by the Barna Research Group shows that of the 30 million Americans between the ages of 16 and 29, only 60% regard themselves as Christians of any sort, and only 5% adhere to conservative evangelical Christian beliefs. Just 16% of non-Christians in their late teens and twenties said they have a "good impression" of Christianity, and only 3% have positive views of evangelicals. Additionally, about three quarters of 20 somethings who attended church as a teenager no longer do so.

America is perhaps 20-40 years behind Western Europe in de-Christianization. Evangelicals have failed to stem the tide for a number of reasons, which you have pointed out. The conservative political establishment has failed as well. We will suffer the same fate as Western Europe: socialism, some suppression of conservative Christianity (Catholicism included), and increasing moral degeneracy. The fact that the American people, for all practical purposes, have nothing but dreadful choices for President is telling. So is the Obama phenomenon, where he is sweeping the primaries while offering only rhetoric about "change".

I wish I could be more optimistic. No one wants to be a Jeremiah, but I see no reason to delude ourselves.

138 posted on 02/17/2008 4:56:58 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: MNJohnnie
The US Constitution has nothing to do with the changes in the PAA..

You really are a complete friggin' moron, you know that?

No, the Constitution doesn't have a thing to do with any of our laws, or so you fascist bastards would like everyone to believe.

You disgust me.

139 posted on 02/17/2008 6:13:24 PM PST by NCSteve (I am not arguing with you - I am telling you. -- James Whistler)
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To: Wallace T.

I’ve seen the surveys where something like 80% of Christian children who attend the commie gov’t schools graduate with the socialist (ie. secular humanist) worldview and basically repudiate any sort of orthodox Christian faith.

The country is going in the wrong direction because there is no discussion of foundational beliefs (let alone consensus!) or how they should be applied to the family, the individual, civil government and the church. The American view of government is regularly cast aside and those of us who stand by them are ridiculed.

We get the government that we deserve...and that probably means Hillary or Barak Hussein...


140 posted on 02/17/2008 6:34:31 PM PST by SecAmndmt
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To: cva66snipe

I’d vote for you for President!


141 posted on 02/17/2008 6:49:56 PM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: SecAmndmt

Government schools invariably promote the government viewpoint that more government is needed to improve mankind’s lot.


142 posted on 02/17/2008 7:00:52 PM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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Comment #143 Removed by Moderator


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