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Russia could use force in Kosovo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7258801.stm ^

Posted on 02/22/2008 5:57:24 AM PST by jhpigott

Russia's ambassador to Nato, Dmitry Rogozin, has warned that Russia could use military force if the Kosovo independence dispute escalates. "If the EU develops a unified position or if Nato exceeds its mandate set by the UN, then these organisations will be in conflict with the UN," he said.

In that case Russia would "proceed on the basis that in order to be respected we need to use brute force", he said.

Many EU members have recognised Kosovo, but several oppose recognition.

Russia, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, backs Serbia, which has condemned the independence declaration issued by the Kosovo parliament on 17 February.

On Tuesday members of the Serb minority in Kosovo attacked two border posts staffed by UN personnel and Kosovo police.

The violence led the Nato troops in Kosovo - known as K-For - to reinforce the border with Serbia.

Kosovo's majority ethnic Albanians are following a plan drawn up by UN special envoy Martti Ahtisaari for "supervised independence", which was rejected by Serbia.

The EU will soon deploy 2,000 officials to strengthen law and order in Kosovo, which has a population of about two million. Russia argues that the mission has no legal basis.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: eu; kosovo; nato; russianmilitary
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To: RC2

Ditto


51 posted on 02/22/2008 7:07:46 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: F15Eagle

This, recognizing Kosovo as a soverign nation, will not end well for the West including the United States.

Within 18 months or “freedom fighters” will begin the infilteration of the European Countries. And it will eventually filter down to the United States.

The peasantry of Europe and the United States are going to pay in blood for this.

One should never make deals with either Democrats or muslims. No good ever comes from it.


52 posted on 02/22/2008 7:10:31 AM PST by sport
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Why are we backing the people there, who sided with Hitler in WWII?...

That's what I am screaming! We're on the wrong side here.

53 posted on 02/22/2008 7:12:27 AM PST by xrp (RON PAUL! To HELL with neo-cons!)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
China/Russia/Serbia.......
China/Russia/North Korea.......
China/Russia/North Vietnam.......

United States/united nations/South Korea......
United States/united nations/Kosovo..........
United States/South Vietnam........

Are we ready for what this could mean?

I remember when we fought on the side of right. Fighting for Kosovo over Serbia ain't it. Are we prepared to go up against Russia and China again over the creation of a muslim country?

54 posted on 02/22/2008 7:13:45 AM PST by processing please hold ( "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.")
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To: demshateGod

Wait until the Mexicans use the same tactic on Texas, California, Arizona, and New Mexice. And the muslims use the same tactic on Michigan.

Then what will you say?

Iknow, I know, it will never happpen.


55 posted on 02/22/2008 7:15:16 AM PST by sport
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To: processing please hold

Agreed. We’ve been treating Serbia like a pariah state, like they’re Israel or something.

If Russia/Serbia want to push back, we should admit our mistake and hold their coats.


56 posted on 02/22/2008 7:20:22 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra
If Russia/Serbia want to push back, we should admit our mistake and hold their coats.

I most definitely agree. Step back and tell Russia and Serbia to have at it.

57 posted on 02/22/2008 7:23:31 AM PST by processing please hold ( "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.")
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To: jhpigott

For this mess we can thank Bill Clinton and George Bush, who had and have identical policies that encouraged and encourage establishment of the Islamofascist terrorist statelet known as “Kosovo.” Creating that monstrosity is and was bad enough, but bad goes to frightful when the Russian part of the equation is brought in. Russia went to war in 1914 against Austria-Hungary to protect the sovereignty of Serbia, plunging the west into WWI. In the Kosovo situation Russia had an entirely legitimate interest in protecting Serbia from being torn asunder by Islamofascist sympathizing do gooders. Indeed, that gratuitous insult to Russia is possibly a significant reason for out present bad relationship with Russia. The only “benefit” we’ve received is a virulent pustule, Kosovo, in the middle of Europe.


58 posted on 02/22/2008 7:26:11 AM PST by libstripper
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To: RC2
Can’t blame Russia all that much. They don’t want a muslim state set up in their backyard. Nobody is talking about it but that’s where it stands.

Putin is not a communist; he is a Russian nationalist and a fascist, the very kind of person to take the Kosovo matter very seriously. It seems quite possible that he's been less than helpful to us in our dealings with Islamofascism precisely because we stuck it to him in the Kosovo situation instead of making common ground with him on the Islamofascist matter, as we should have.

59 posted on 02/22/2008 7:30:49 AM PST by libstripper
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To: canuck_conservative
Russia knows if they mess with with the US they risk total annihilation.

If anything, they’re rational gamblers. They’re not about to throw it all away over some lousy Balkan family feud.

Neither was Nicholas II in 1914.

60 posted on 02/22/2008 7:32:38 AM PST by libstripper
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
I believe your assessment of China is a decade out of date.

To the contrary, it is up to the moment.

China's demographic decline was only hinted at 10 years ago. The hard numbers today are clear: the ratio of women of childbearing age in China has shifted from 51% of the population to 46% - a ratio historically unprecedented in any population of significant size.

The ratio of under-15s to over-15s in China will drop below 20% in a couple of years - China will have a smaller ratio of children than America.

The ratio of over-65s will soar astronomically over the next decade.

The only reason why the average Chinese today is slightly younger than the average American is because Americans live 6 years longer than Chinese people do.

And while their economy is dependent on exports, they are still a slave nation and in control.

Being a slave nation is not a long-term advantage. I point to the example of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, etc.

The rest of the world depends more on Chinese goods to keep them going than China does on exporting them.

Absolutely false.

If the rest of the world collectively decided to pay 1.25% more of its disposable, after-tax income on household goods and appliances in order to avoid Chinese goods, China's economy would collapse and the rest of the world's economy would not be noticeably affected.

Plenty of US retailers have switched to sourcing more expensive German toys and drastically reduced their inventory of Chinese ones. The Chinese toy industry is now experiencing enormous layoffs, while US toy retailers had a solid, if unexciting, holiday season.

The big picture: Exports are almost 25% of the Chinese economy - despite the fact that they have four times as many domestic consumers as the USA.

Exports are only 8% of the US economy - our domestic market on a per-citizen basis is eight times larger than China's, despite China's almost 10$ annualized growth over the past decade.

And China will never grow at that rate in any decade ever again.

61 posted on 02/22/2008 7:35:56 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: libstripper

while i agree with your assessment and disagree wholeheartedly with the policies of Clinton and Bush on the “Kosovo” matter, the fact remains that Putin/Russia’s options are limited.

Outside of moving around some military hardware, Putin is not in a position to change the equation from a military standpoint. Now, he could apply pressure in several different spots to see if we’ll budge


62 posted on 02/22/2008 7:36:31 AM PST by jhpigott
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Why are we backing the people there, who sided with Hitler in WWII?...

You mean Japan.


63 posted on 02/22/2008 7:40:27 AM PST by NoLibZone (If the Clinton years were so great, why is Osama doing so well?)
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To: Mac94

Oh, but we wouldn’t do anything to stop them.


64 posted on 02/22/2008 7:42:06 AM PST by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: Little Ray

The Balkans are balkanized. They like to fight each other and kill each other, dork each other, abuse each other and malign each other. To the extent that anyone from the outside get in the middle of their great national pastime, it just delays the game. They want what they get and they will get what they want until there’s not a one left standing. So let them.


65 posted on 02/22/2008 7:43:31 AM PST by mathurine
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To: agere_contra

So are you against the right of states to withdraw from the Union?


66 posted on 02/22/2008 7:43:55 AM PST by NoLibZone (If the Clinton years were so great, why is Osama doing so well?)
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To: jhpigott
What I really can't understand is the absolutely irrational idea that the U.S. could gain anything worthwhile by deliberately poking a stick into Russia's eye over this Kosovo thing when the Russians are entirely reasonable in not wanting an Islamofascist pustule in the middle of eastern Europe and when they have always regarded this kind of thing as a direct threat to their national security. Although they don't have much in the way of viable military options in this situation, they have a host of very nasty non-military options, like, for example, encouraging North Korean and Iranian nuclear ambitions. Our Kosovo policy was (Clinton) and is (Bush) pure madness.
67 posted on 02/22/2008 7:44:27 AM PST by libstripper
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To: RC2
"Can’t blame Russia all that much. They don’t want a muslim state set up in their backyard. Nobody is talking about it but that’s where it stands."

That's exactly where it stands. The upside is it will put marxists' knickers in a twist. One of their icons, bubba, created this mess by supporting the muzzies, but now they see mother russia supporting the Christians. What's a commie to do? Must be so hard to remain idealistic in these realistic times ... it's all just so unfair.

68 posted on 02/22/2008 7:46:42 AM PST by Let's Roll (As usual, following a shooting spree, libs want to take guns away from those who DIDN'T do it.)
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To: NoLibZone
Why are we backing the people there, who sided with Hitler in WWII?...

You mean Japan.

The poster means the eastern European Muslims, many of whom went so far as to join the SS.

69 posted on 02/22/2008 7:46:56 AM PST by libstripper
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To: sport

I’m not saying I agree with Kosovo’s independence. I DON’T CARE. I just wonder why the liberals in Belgrade care. The liberal, socialist in San Fransisco wont care when Mexico declares San Diego as a part of Mexico. The Dhimmis in Detroit wont bat an eye when The Muslims declare Sharia law in Deerborne. What’s different about the Socialist in Belgrade?

I’m not asking rhetorical questions here. I really don’t understand.


70 posted on 02/22/2008 7:47:27 AM PST by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: sport

Wait until the Mexicans use the same tactic on Texas, California, Arizona, and New Mexice.

Do you believe States have the right to withdraw?


71 posted on 02/22/2008 7:48:25 AM PST by NoLibZone (If the Clinton years were so great, why is Osama doing so well?)
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To: stevio

Maybe he is forcing Russias hand to fight that particular battle for us.


72 posted on 02/22/2008 7:48:40 AM PST by RobRoy (.)
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To: libstripper

i guess the thought is we enlist the support of moderate Islamic/Muslim states in return for our recognition of Kosovo.

As you say, irrational, but then again Clinton and Bush weren’t/aren’t always rational


73 posted on 02/22/2008 7:51:51 AM PST by jhpigott
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To: canuck_conservative
Russia knows if they mess with with the US they risk total annihilation.

The big question, though, is: Does Bush really care enough about Kosovo to want to get into a fight with Russia over it?

74 posted on 02/22/2008 7:55:39 AM PST by PapaBear3625
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To: RobRoy

I’m way past the point to think that he is outsmarting anyone.


75 posted on 02/22/2008 7:58:55 AM PST by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: maquiladora
>>"Russia could use force in Kosovo"

I can't see it happening.

I can. Russia feels the need to protect its border of influence. NATO has been steadily chipping away at this border in Eastern Europe.

I would not be surprised if Russia called our bluff.

My problem is that I don't understand our policy in Kosovo. Just seems like we are on the wrong side.

76 posted on 02/22/2008 8:00:06 AM PST by Dr._Joseph_Warren
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To: edpc
I'd like to know how their logistics would work. It's a "can't get there from here" place, now that the USSR no longer exists. They'd need the permission of more than a couple of nations to move the proper men and materials there

Who is to say that they haven't been pre-positioning equipment in Serbia over the last few months/years. All it would then take would be a few commercial flights with lots of fit young men as passengers, who put on uniforms as soon as they arrive

77 posted on 02/22/2008 8:00:41 AM PST by PapaBear3625
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To: NoLibZone
So are you against the right of states to withdraw from the Union?

It's a fair point: didn't you guys have a war on that very subject?

Even taking the Confederate view of this - Virginia* didn't have most of its population bussed in from Albania by Hitler, shoving most of the native Virginians out, before it tried to opt out of the Union.

And no 19th century Superpower bombarded Washington for 80+ days because Lincoln had the temerity to fight for the borders of his own country.

The South had a coherent case against the North in the Civil War: whereas the murderous Albanian immigrants (and NATO) have none.

* If it was Virginia that started the secessionist trend. You understand this is not really my subject as a non-US citizen.

78 posted on 02/22/2008 8:04:44 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: jhpigott

79 posted on 02/22/2008 8:09:40 AM PST by Bobalu (I guess I see'd that varmint for the last time....)
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To: 2banana

You my friend are exactly right. It is a worthless mission to have troops in Kosovo. I have a friend who was stationed in Kosovo and he could not stand nor could he care less about the muslim Albarnians. He stated that he felt nothing but hatred FROM these people and could not believe that the U.S. was siding with a group who can’t stand us. It would be like if we all of a sudden struck up a friendship with Iran. - Ridiculous!


80 posted on 02/22/2008 8:13:49 AM PST by ohioman
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To: agere_contra
“Why so much hostility to Kosovo’s independence?”

The conflict between the largely Christian (Eastern Orthodox) Serbs and the Muslim Albanians in this region has been going on for about a thousand years. It didn’t start with Hitler and WWII. I know some Serbs who are still bitter about the outcome of the Battle of Kosovo in 1389. Kosovo is claimed by most Serbs to be the ancestral home of Serbia. There is a cauldron of national, ethnic, and religious animosity there that boils over from time to time, aided and abetted by self-interested “allies.”

81 posted on 02/22/2008 8:14:07 AM PST by riverdawg
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

I’m sure Russia would like to protect its “border of influence” but it lacks the ability to project enough military power to really do anything about it


82 posted on 02/22/2008 8:24:45 AM PST by jhpigott
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To: Fiddlstix

I think that we may be taking the wrong side in Kosovo due to the influence of oil rich nations like Saudi Arabia.

We have gotten ourselves into a spot where we can be easily influenced or even blackmailed because of our dependence on ME oil at reasonable prices.

If we are responding to pressure from such sources then we can likely also be influenced by threats from Russia...after all, they can also do things that will impact the price of oil.

And when the price of oil increases it is a windfall to Russia.


83 posted on 02/22/2008 8:26:26 AM PST by Bobalu (I guess I see'd that varmint for the last time....)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

I do believe this video... too many folks got their liberal heads in the sand... which will get their/our a$$es shot off... The United State Citizen should take this very seriously...
I love this country enough to die for it. Can NOT figure out our Pres Bush’s stand on Kosovo...Radical Islam folks want to kill and conquer US...
When I was in the Marines in the early 60’s films were being showed of the communist/socialist acomplishments and intentions... they stopped showing those films... now we have an election that is leaning in the Socialistic/Communist direction..it’s here.
I have 5 grandchildren... I’ll be dead and gone in less than 25 years.. what will my Grandchildren be facing when they visit my grave?


84 posted on 02/22/2008 8:31:46 AM PST by rusureitflies? (OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD! There, I said it. Prove me wrong.)
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To: All

just hearing on CNN that they are recalling our embassay staff in Serbia


85 posted on 02/22/2008 8:34:33 AM PST by jhpigott
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To: jhpigott

so now it is a race to the province.

If the EU reaches it first they control, if russia reaches it first the USA looks like a buffoon.


86 posted on 02/22/2008 8:36:17 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: jhpigott
I believe this is just the opportunity Putin is looking for to throw their weight around. To top it all off, they are even in the right this time.

I believe the Russians will send troops into Kosovo.

87 posted on 02/22/2008 8:37:54 AM PST by yarddog (`)
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To: riverdawg
Oh absolutely. They have been fighting for ever. But the demographic change is (I believe) recent.

The change in demographic can be tracked from 1455 (from a Turkish tax census) where about 1/260 of the populace were what we might call "Albanian", and today, when its about 80/100.

I contend that the bulk of this demographic change occurred during WWII, when Hitler and Mussolini tried to establish a Greater Albania. Using genocide.

88 posted on 02/22/2008 8:40:10 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: rusureitflies?

GWBush never formulated Kosovo/Serbia policy is is all driven by the desk jockeys of the state department. Left over ussr hacks and commies in governemnt.

Rice was deposed over a year ago after 2006 elections.

The presidential administration is being lead, it is not leading.


89 posted on 02/22/2008 8:42:03 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: yarddog

Putin may send troops, but i just don’t see how logistics are going to support anything more than just a symbolic number of troops. As someone said earlier, the USSR isn’t around anymore, there are a number of nations that stand bwtn Russia and Serbia, not to mention Serbia is landlocked. So unless Putin is going to airlift some troops I don’t see how they get there.

I suppose if he was really serious he could send a few tank divisions thru Romania and into Serbia . . . but i’d rather not think about how that would play out


90 posted on 02/22/2008 8:49:10 AM PST by jhpigott
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To: Bobalu
Well said.
Points taken.
91 posted on 02/22/2008 8:54:10 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: F15Eagle
"never heard of it "

Because it is still (an autonomous) part of Serbia.

92 posted on 02/22/2008 8:56:32 AM PST by norton ( There is no longer any choice)
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Comment #93 Removed by Moderator

To: 2banana
WWWI started there

The World Wide Web? Not bad for a country of mud roads.

94 posted on 02/22/2008 8:59:38 AM PST by RightWhale (Clam down! avoid ataque de nervosa)
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To: jhpigott

Bring em’ on.


95 posted on 02/22/2008 9:00:56 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: demshateGod
Wrong?
Yes.

Delusional?
Not enough data, but likely.

96 posted on 02/22/2008 9:01:17 AM PST by norton ( There is no longer any choice)
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To: stevio
You’re right, clinton was the one to start this. But he’s just keeping the tradition alive. Like he himself said; Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton.

Yet another reason for me to become violently ill when I see Daddy Bush and the bent one chumming around. You know no good is afoot. To see them together is like seeing mafia bosses actively colluding.

97 posted on 02/22/2008 9:13:13 AM PST by E. Cartman (Huckaboob will never be Vice President.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network; PurpleMan

Why are we backing Al Qaeda fellow-travelers?


98 posted on 02/22/2008 9:27:28 AM PST by nickcarraway (I didn't leave the Republican Party, it left me)
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To: demshateGod

You are correct in your assessment.

I misunderstood your post.


99 posted on 02/22/2008 9:32:30 AM PST by sport
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To: jhpigott; All

You know, it’s kinda ironic that a majority of the countries that have recognised or declared that they will be recognising Kosovo as an independent state in the near future are actually Western “Christian” countries.

“More and more countries are getting ready to recognize Kosovo’s independence, but many are hesitant, including some Arab and Muslim countries despite Washington’s appeals to display solidarity with Kosovo Muslims.

During a briefing on Kosovo after its declaration of independence, Under Secretary for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns welcomed the recognition of this step by the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), and hence, by the governments of its member countries. He said: “And we think it is a very positive step that this Muslim state, Muslim majority state, has been created today.”

...Only three OIC members - Turkey, Afghanistan and Senegal - have recognized Kosovo’s independence out of almost 60 members of the organization. Others have adopted a wait-and-see attitude because of the potential threat of a domestic split, or destabilization in neighboring countries.”

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080221/99818092.html


100 posted on 02/22/2008 9:35:50 AM PST by Jane_N (Truth, like beauty....is in the eyes of the beholder! Kosovo is Serbia!)
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