I have heard this argument before. If McCain wins without our help, he will punish us by ignoring what we want.
I Voted for GW Bush for gov. of Texas and for POTUS twice. I defended him all over the world. Quid pro quo, right? Not necessarily.
Posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:29 AM PST by Bob J
Ever since Super Tuesday a super debate has been raging on FR concerning John McCain. I was never a McCain supporter, in fact I penned the post Super Tuesday post "Official FR Drinking Thread" so we could together drown our common disappointments into oblivion.
FReepers seem to be moving into three distinct groups. The first are those that have always supported McCain, a lot or partially. There are those that don't like McCain but are willing to support him because they believe they will get some of what they want or to defeat what the see as the more critical danger, Obama or Clinton. The there's the third group, those that viscerally dislike McCain and vow never to vote for him for any reason.
The actions and motivation for support from the first two groups seem obvious...they would rather see McCain in the White House than a dem. But for the life of me I cannot understand some of the actions of the third.
Allow me to explain.
I understand you dislike McCain and the reasons why. He is far too liberal on many issues, he has stabbed conservatives in the back several times and he is too cozy with the dems. These are all defensible reasons to not vote for him or to vote third party and you have every right to vote as you see fit and for whatever reasons you hold. What I don't understand is why some here are making such concerted efforts to dissuade others from voting for or supporting him.
As flawed as McCain is there is no way a logical case can be made that we would be better off under Obama or Hillary (O&H). Even on most issues where McCain is closer to the left than to us, O&H are much farther to the left than he is and would do much more damage than McCain. On the issues where he is not, the WOT, taxes, abortion, etc., the differences are stark and this does not even take into count extended issues like judicial appointments.
So why are you working so hard, so viscerlly, so nasty, to turn votes against McCain? If you truly feel as you do than go sit out November or cast your vote for your 3rd party candidate. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why you push for a McCain and GOP loss.
It may be as simple as "misery loves company". It may be that you validate your own position by getting others to believe as you do. It may be that there are some dem propaganda plants on FR. I don't know but I sure would like to and I know others do as well.
Rather than have another 4 or 8 years of one of our own screwing us and backstabbing us, we might as well let one of the socialist rats have it and let the flush go to completion.
At least with one of the commie party scumbags in office, we'd turn to weeding out some of the scum floating on top of the "conservative" movement.
If the 'Rats get to out of hand well, people need to either deal with them or quit whining and accept it. I for one would rather see the endgame play out when I'm 45 or 50 rather than when I'm 90 and 99% of all the people are government tools who've been raised by state schools to believe individualism is evil, 80% marginal tax rates and rationing are "social necessities", and ownership of a firearm is punishable by life in prison...
Bingo.
Mr. McCain is hoist by his own petard.
The Senator who prides himself on being a "Maverick"....now has reaped the whirlwind. He has reaped what he has sown....meet the Maverick Voter.
There are any number of additional reasons to vote against him, his being a communist Manchurian Mole deservedly being highest on the list, but his unabashed HYPOCRISY on all the issues of any real merit has to be a rather close runner up.
Note how he always brags about being the "Mr. Anti-Pork-Barrel" guy. In that capacity, he torpedoed our country getting 100 brand spanking new KC-767 strato tankers to replace the 60 year old KC-135s that our airmen our risking their lives to fly. We would have got those 100 planes for only $18 billion.
Senator "Anti-Pork-Barrel" (along with John Warner) then forced an "open competition" with EADS/Airbus to provide the planes (ostensibly "to get a better price and save the taxpayer's money") , causing a delay of six years in the bidding...and an extra 10 years in deliveries of the first aircraft...
The Air Force ...obviously stalled ....but under intense Senatorial pressure to pick Airbus changed the RFP less than a year ago after 5 years into the competition...(one wonders from where such Senatorial pressure could be coming from, eh?)...to favor a bigger plane the actual logistics folks didn't want.
Now, those 100 planes will cost at least $40 billion.
The KC-45A will cost $35 Million more per plane than Boeing's current proposal, an additional $10 billion in imposed infrastructure costs, and operate with 24% LESS fuel efficiency than the Boeing KC-767.
Meanwhile "Mr. Integrity" is pocketing money from Airbus...
Agreed.
I’m depressed about McCain’s nomination, but I’ll vote for him unless it becomes clear to me that he cannot win. In that case, I’d vote third party.
Using what tactics? You are abrogating the most powerful weapon in the arsenal - refusal to support.
“If you elect McCain as President, he will define conservatism. I am not willing to allow conservatism to mean: pro-amnesty, pro-human-caused Global Warming, anti-first amendment, pro-terrorists-have-civil-rights or any of the other left-wing quackery John McCain has embraced over the years.
I also don’t see why I should be expected to be more loyal to the republican party than the candidate we nominated for President.”
Thanks. My sentiments EXACTLY.
I’m sorry, but you are simply peddling the “you have no choice” BS again.
You’re right in one respect - the primaries are the proper time to select a candidate. The race was over before my state’s caucus came around. I had no choice - except to say I could rally for McCain, Huckabee, or Paul. Having no affinity for any of them, I didn’t go to the caucus.
Not caucusing was a choice, just as not supporting is a choice. Neither is particularly savory, as there are always consequences for such choices.
But your way has consequences, too. You try to browbeat others into prostituting their principles (THEIR principles - to make the proper emphasis) based on YOUR proclivities.
McCain was too liberal eight years ago. He has gone further left since then. But you wish to pretend that I (and others like me) are the ones who have departed from “the way”?
No sale, FRiend.
Yes, they do. Primarily, through the actions of the politicians they endorse with their vote.
Your vote for McCain, no matter HOW you spin it, is an endorsement of him as your preferred leader, based on his record.
And if McCain wins without your vote it will only prove politicians don’t need it to win and you will further marginalize yourself.
That is the risk for me, of course. If he wins WITH your vote, and you wish for conservative governance, then you will have marginalized yourself because you will support any candidate based on the initial after their name. That is YOUR risk.
You do what you want Einstein, but if McCain wins without the extreme right by attracting more independent and right leaning dem votes every conservative politician is going to take that cue. The GOP will move even farther to the middle and you and you’re “principled” demagraphic will be left out in the cold looking in for decades to come and all of us will be paying for that.
Somehow I don't believe that is an argument for letting him win at all.
It suggests that we should pull out the stops to make sure he can't.
Period.
So are you in essence arguing for conservatives to vote for Hillary or Obama IN THE GENERAL election? Because that is the clear inference if we cannot have integrity in the response of the Party.
Anyways, I am tired of the crocodile tears from RINOs about the poor conservatives becoming orphans.
I note that you are silent about Senator Anti-Pork Barrels little accomplishments to wreck our national defense.
My quota of votes for John McCain while holding my nose is all used up. That’s all I can tell you, old friend.
I have heard this argument before. If McCain wins without our help, he will punish us by ignoring what we want.
I Voted for GW Bush for gov. of Texas and for POTUS twice. I defended him all over the world. Quid pro quo, right? Not necessarily.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.