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Schwarzenegger denounces 'outrageous' homeschooling ruling
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 3/7/2008 | Jill Tucker and Bob Egelko

Posted on 03/07/2008 6:36:30 PM PST by GVnana

(03-07) 13:37 PST SACRAMENTO -- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger promised today to ensure that parents have the right to homeschool their children, after a state appeals court ruling severely restricted the practice in California.

"Every California child deserves a quality education and parents should have the right to decide what's best for their children," the governor said in a statement. "Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children's education. This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts and if the courts don't protect parents' rights then, as elected officials, we will."

An estimated 166,000 children are homeschooled across the state.

The ruling by the Second District Court of Appeal in Los Angeles said all children ages 6 to 18 must attend public or private school full-time until graduation from high school or be tutored at home by a credentialed teacher.

The Southern California case stemmed from a child welfare dispute involving the children of Phillip and Mary Long of Lynwood (Los Angeles County). The couple's eight children have been home-schooled by Mary Long, who holds no teaching credential. The children were also enrolled in a private school through an independent study program, which included quarterly home visits. Although the case did not involve the question of the children's truancy, the court decision broadly addressed the legality of homeschooling in California while specifically ruling that the Long family's situation violated state law.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: aliens; buyammo; california; communism; denounces; homeschooling; rinosonparade; ruling; schwarzenegger
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To: krb
He’s not as “liberal” as people think.

You're right. He's more liberal than people think.

201 posted on 03/08/2008 7:29:17 AM PST by Digital Sniper (Hello, "Undocumented Immigrant." I'm an "Undocumented Border Patrol Agent.")
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To: humblegunner
I hope it encourages them to get some credentials.

Because California's cree-denshuled teachers do such a wunnerful job edumacatin' the chilluns! Uh-huh. Yahsureyoubetcha!

202 posted on 03/08/2008 7:31:10 AM PST by Digital Sniper (Hello, "Undocumented Immigrant." I'm an "Undocumented Border Patrol Agent.")
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To: GVnana; All

Hooray Arnold! Good post. Very good thread..(scanning & reading many of the 202 posts). Thanks to all homeschoolers.


203 posted on 03/08/2008 7:37:45 AM PST by PGalt
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To: humblegunner

Here, read this Thomas Sowell book:

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-American-Education-Thomas-Sowell/dp/0029303303

Then you might “know something” before you try to teach it here.

HINT: Sowell says the dumbest college students are majoring in education. They then become the nation’s school teachers. Ironic, huh?


204 posted on 03/08/2008 7:44:10 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: RKBA Democrat
Croskey Appointed by: Governor Deukmejian, 1987
Joan Dempsey Klein Appointed by Governor Jerry Brown, 1978
Patti S. Kitching - Appointed by Gov Wilson
205 posted on 03/08/2008 7:49:25 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: humblegunner

Credentials? You got to be joking! How about some fisting-gate of credentials for you! In a free society the people credentiates the standards and the government, not the other way around. There is no control once those jack-a$$ in government are empowered just like those courts to prove.

I am a flight instructor, and guess what, the schools think I am not credentiated to teach there, even though I can teach any kid the technology behind flying and a high responsability task that flying it.

The credentials they want is be stupid and empowered retard thug just like them.


206 posted on 03/08/2008 7:51:31 AM PST by JudgemAll (control freaks, their world & their problem with my gun and my protecting my private party)
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To: edcoil
If it is common sense, why did the judge rule they way he did?

Judges these days are not famous for common sense.

207 posted on 03/08/2008 7:57:06 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20
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To: savedbygrace
"The brutal reality is that the American system of education is bankrupt." " . . . the intellectual calibre of public school teachers in the United States is shockingly low." "Parents who send their children to school with instructions to respect and obey their teachers may be surprised to discover how often these children are sent back home conditioned to disrespect and disobey their parents."

Thomas Sowell. Saving our culture if we'd only listen.

208 posted on 03/08/2008 7:57:40 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: edcoil
If it is common sense, why did the judge rule they way he did?

Judges these days are not famous for common sense.

209 posted on 03/08/2008 7:58:15 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (If you aren't angry, you're not paying attention.)
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To: cgk

I guess now that they got the memo they’ll talk about it.


210 posted on 03/08/2008 8:02:12 AM PST by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: humblegunner

“I hope it encourages them to get some credentials.”

I hope it encourages them to get torches and pitchforks and burn the damn teacher’s union HQ down.


211 posted on 03/08/2008 8:03:28 AM PST by DesScorp
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To: calcowgirl
Did you read this particular ruling? I don't think Pierce applies.

"Pierce" is a Supreme Court of the United States ruling - why wouldn't it take precedence over any little activist judge's ruling? Isn't that the purpose of the SCOTUS?

212 posted on 03/08/2008 8:05:42 AM PST by maine-iac7 (",,,but you can't fool all of the people all the time" LINCOLN)
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To: catroina54
no one in the school was ever concerned with our credentials when we had to assist with the homework, correct it with them, and then review it all.

Good observation.

213 posted on 03/08/2008 8:11:23 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: GVnana; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

214 posted on 03/08/2008 8:14:01 AM PST by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Phinanceguy
The sheeples need to rise up.....alas, but they won’t.

In 1980, in Maine, parents were being jailed and/or children taken from them for home schooling.

We ' sheeple' fought a long, hard battle - from our Capitol to the Halls of Washington - and we won.

Maine is now one of the top and safest states for home schooling.

That said, the wannabe dictators never stop trying to take our rights back - so the fight goes on and on.

We need another SCOTUS ruling - a plain and simple ruling that gives parents to clear priority to decide where their children are schooled, be it public, private or home - and that parents do NOT need the permission of the gov't school system to do so.

We need to cement this in the SCOTUS - again

215 posted on 03/08/2008 8:16:37 AM PST by maine-iac7 (",,,but you can't fool all of the people all the time" LINCOLN)
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To: GVnana

Gee. Good for him!


216 posted on 03/08/2008 8:18:07 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: easternsky

The same should be asked of our so-called right-wing talk show hosts. I called the Hannity show on Thursday and his call screener told me that; “He doesn’t want to talk about it, there’s an election going on.” If there’s a hint of something being pro-homosexual, they won’t condemn it. The right talkers said nothing about the Folsom Street Parade.


217 posted on 03/08/2008 8:19:12 AM PST by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: GVnana

Gee, one time I can agree with Schwarzenegger. That hasn’t happened very often.


218 posted on 03/08/2008 8:21:17 AM PST by conservative blonde
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To: sagar

Yes, we need to have our kids learn that homosexuality is good, clean fun. I’m so glad you have enlightened me, am I now not a bigot in your mind?


219 posted on 03/08/2008 8:23:35 AM PST by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: maine-iac7
We need to cement this in the SCOTUS - again

Yep.

220 posted on 03/08/2008 8:23:57 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: sagar

Sadly, it’s a close comparison. The NEA/CTA want your kids and they’ll take you to court to get them.


221 posted on 03/08/2008 8:28:10 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: webschooner

he thinks he is hip.


222 posted on 03/08/2008 8:29:50 AM PST by television is just wrong
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To: savedbygrace
Then you might “know something” before you try to teach it here.

Yeah, I missed that memo about how I wasn't entitled to an opinion.

223 posted on 03/08/2008 8:34:40 AM PST by humblegunner ()
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To: conservative blonde
Gee, one time I can agree with Schwarzenegger. That hasn’t happened very often.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am **certain** that Arnold's motives weren't pure!

Schwarzenegger merely looked at 166,000 homeschoolers standing on the doorsteps of the government schools ( $15,000/kid), pulled out his pocket calculator, and determined this would **really** BREAK the budget!

By the way, 166,000 homeschoolers is likely a gross undercount! These counts almost always use numbers from 2003. The *true* number of homeschoolers is likely double that number!

224 posted on 03/08/2008 8:40:20 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: maine-iac7
"Pierce" is a Supreme Court of the United States ruling - why wouldn't it take precedence over any little activist judge's ruling? Isn't that the purpose of the SCOTUS?

Because the issue addressed in Pierce does not exist to California. There are exceptions in California law, unlike the Oregon mandate.

225 posted on 03/08/2008 8:40:21 AM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: GVnana

HOMESCHOOLERS and GOOD PARENTS UNITE!!!!


226 posted on 03/08/2008 8:41:44 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: humblegunner; savedbygrace

Yeah, I missed that memo about how I wasn’t entitled to an opinion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you a teacher or an education major? ( Just wondering.)

It is true that everyone is entitled to an opinion. HOWEVER, not all opinions are valid or entitled to respect.


227 posted on 03/08/2008 8:43:43 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: stevio
The same should be asked of our so-called right-wing talk show hosts. I called the Hannity show on Thursday and his call screener told me that; “He doesn’t want to talk about it, there’s an election going on.” If there’s a hint of something being pro-homosexual, they won’t condemn it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not surprised about Hannity.

Has Rush or OReilly covered this story? I haven't been keeping up with these two recently.

You are right. Anything that smacks of homosexuality and the Big 3 conservative hosts avoid it like a vampire to garlic. I bet they all took careful note to what the homosexuality activists did to Dr. Laura.

What whimps!

228 posted on 03/08/2008 8:47:49 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Thanks for the link. Your take on the situation is helpful.


229 posted on 03/08/2008 8:49:03 AM PST by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: krb

Heck these days people aren’t as “conservative” as they might think.

I’m beginning to think that everyone is a liberal and nobody is a true conservative these days.


230 posted on 03/08/2008 8:56:47 AM PST by Almondjoy
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To: poindexters brother

Now you look forward to taking the office machine out to a field somewhere and going all gangster on it. :)


231 posted on 03/08/2008 9:01:07 AM PST by Almondjoy
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To: calcowgirl
C.O.--IYO, was this family just negligent in their failure to file? Is that what most families that you know do (file individually as a private school)?

The published articles seem to have misrepresented the issues so badly, it's hard to figure out if this is a huge issue, or not.

Each state has different laws (or no laws at all) for homeschooling. For example, my state has no regulations. I don't report to nor associate with the public school system at all. Homeschool parents answer to no one here, and we craft our children's education the way we each see fit.

Then there's California - the exact opposite of my state. You can see the dramatic difference between laws in my state and CA here:

My State

California

In CA, parents have been "homeschooling" by qualifying under a private school exemption. Now the judges in this case have ruled that parents (without official "teaching credentials") should never have been permitted to homeschool under the law's private school exemption. That's what the court decision says. If we take it at face value, the court has ruled against homeschooling.

I've read the threads and posts claiming this case is not a big issue. But, all the indications are that it is a major issue: This family has had a long history with the DCFS, and the dependency case is documented in an unpublished court opinion. But the lawyers took the opportunity to use this family as an example to knock down CA homeschooling itself in a separate case.

So, this is an enormous decision, but probably only for California homeschoolers.

232 posted on 03/08/2008 9:02:12 AM PST by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: humblegunner

You were the one castigating homeschooling parents for not knowing something before they taught their children. In elevating “teaching credentials” to such a high status, you fell into your own hole, because education schools are the laughingstock at most colleges and universities. They are inadequate, as Dr. Sowell points out in his book.

I’m sure your local library can get a copy for you. Read it. Then your opinion will be informed, rather than uninformed. Teaching credentials are not worth the paper. It’s the teacher that determines the value s/he brings to the table, whether credentialed or not.

The proof is in the pudding. Homeschooled children score much higher on average than public school children. Challenge that statement and I will locate the data that proves it. I have it around here someplace. But if you challenge it, you WILL lose the argument as I pepper you with facts that prove credentials add nothing to the equation.


233 posted on 03/08/2008 9:23:38 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: calcowgirl
I don't know what the right answer is as to oversight, but it seems like with zero oversight there is a risk to "public welfare."

I probably come down someplace in the middle on this one. Yes, oversight. Does that mean the child must be in a group classroom environment? No.

I agree children should be taught the history of their state and civics --the forms of participatory democracy in order to make effective citizens. They need objective testing for competence, and practical real-world exercises that bring meaning. You can't allow a child to be cheated by a failure to apply standards.

When it was first introduced I read over the K-12 curriculum online. If only I had that kind of education!

234 posted on 03/08/2008 9:23:59 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: John Leland 1789
Credentials prove NOTHING! All of my California high school teachers were credentialed and only a few of them taught me anything. We have homeschooled our seven children. I have a doctorate, but not in anything you are likely to think certifies me as a teacher

I seriously considered getting a teaching credential until I looked over the curriculum requirements. Forget it. I could get through it, but who would want to?

I'm getting my masters, and the public schools will have to do without me.

235 posted on 03/08/2008 9:33:12 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: Tired of Taxes

Thanks, I’ll have a closer look at official court document. I hate to put it this way, but maybe all the ranting that I did yesterday concerning this case was not a waste of energy.


236 posted on 03/08/2008 9:39:12 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: GVnana

Didn’t this POS recently sign a law outlawing the words “Mom and Dad” in Kalifornia screwls?


237 posted on 03/08/2008 9:41:47 AM PST by Grunthor (None of the Above 2008!)
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To: GVnana
We take our kids to a certain Republican candidates headquarters here in California Congressional District 11 to stuff envelopes and such. We were able to talk with our candidate and ask some good questions.

Civics 101. It doesn't get any better than that. We ALL learn things on those "field trips".

238 posted on 03/08/2008 9:46:04 AM PST by liege
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To: savedbygrace
Homeschooled children score much higher on average than public school children.

Fine, you win.

Homeschooled kids are like unto gods and mine are just regular dogs.

Happy now?

Some lardass mother with good intentions and a high school
diploma can turn her little rats into geniuses at the blink of an eye.

Got it.

I'll trot my boys outside now and instruct them in ditch digging.

239 posted on 03/08/2008 9:47:43 AM PST by humblegunner ()
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To: humblegunner

I don’t need any ditches dug at the moment, but if you’ll teach ‘em how to trim back the bushes from the sides of my house and haul them away, I might hire ‘em. Get references.


240 posted on 03/08/2008 9:56:31 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: wintertime

Brother-in-arms.


241 posted on 03/08/2008 9:56:58 AM PST by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: humblegunner

Congratulations!! You win the Most Ignorant Comment Award for this post.

Home schooled children have to take benchmark tests administered by California repeatedly throughout the year to make sure they are learning.

It might interest you to hear that home schooled children here in California are scoring a full two grade levels higher than their state educated contemporaries.

The teacher’s union head is happy because there was no other way they could compete against vastly better educated children that are home schooled. They were losing more students each year. So an activist judge just eliminated the competition so the useless state can keep their indoctrination camps running. Who cares if students are learning less and less each year.

Eliminating something that is producing better educated students on average is a BAD thing. This ruling is going to hurt us all in the long run because there will be more poorly educated people in our future.


242 posted on 03/08/2008 10:02:49 AM PST by CCGuy (USAF (Ret.))
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To: Tired of Taxes
Thanks for input. Regardless of the part concerning official court document that was probably added by an FR member, based on document I do believe that media initially overreacted to judges' decision to "outlaw" homeschooling.

After ranting for a day about how screwed up California law is, I got wind of official document suggesting that homeschooling had actually not been outlawed. I felt bad about my rants because I had evidently swallowed bogus information. But I felt less embarrassed when I was "upstaged" by Gov. Schwarzenegger's seemingly misinformed reaction.

243 posted on 03/08/2008 10:03:20 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: humblegunner
Some lardass mother with good intentions and a high school diploma can turn her little rats into geniuses at the blink of an eye.

Uh, yeah, humblegunner. Her odds are probably better than classroom instruction. And the children wouldn't be treated like "little rats".

244 posted on 03/08/2008 10:04:05 AM PST by GVnana ("They're still analyzing the first guy. What do I have to worry about?" - GWB)
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To: GVnana
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger promised today to ensure that parents have the right to homeschool their children, after a state appeals court ruling severely restricted the practice in California.

Freedom of choice in a free society.

Do we really need such a freedom stifling agenda taking away government powers only there for the promotion of freedom of the people? /s

245 posted on 03/08/2008 10:10:49 AM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: humblegunner
" I teach at a private Christian college prep school with the following stats: 1)99% of our kids go to college (the only ones who don't, delay for milliary service) 2) 80% of our kids get scholarship $$ 3) ONLY about 20% of our faculty ARE EDUCRATS! (and most of those are at the elementary level) Because we allow our teachers to be part time, we have professionals with ADVANCED DEGREES IN THE SUBJECT AREA THEY TEACH. (something unheard of in public screwells) Teaching creditials HINDER learning.
246 posted on 03/08/2008 10:12:22 AM PST by Mrs.Z ("...you're a Democrat. You're expected to complain and offer no solutions." Denny Crane)
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To: Grunthor
Didn’t this POS recently sign a law outlawing the words “Mom and Dad” in Kalifornia screwls?

Let me guess, the reasoning is that it discriminates against Heather who has two mommy's, right?

247 posted on 03/08/2008 10:16:59 AM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Mrs.Z
"...you're a Democrat. You're expected to complain and offer no solutions.

Denny has pegged it.

It's so blatantly obvious that trust in common sense of the majority of the public is lost for me.

248 posted on 03/08/2008 10:22:48 AM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Amendment10
I felt bad about my rants because I had evidently swallowed bogus information.

Amendment 10, I didn't read all of your posts, but you probably were right in your rants. The court has ruled that "homeschooling" by a parent "without teaching credentials" is not permitted by CA law. There's no other way to read it.

I do believe that media initially overreacted to judges' decision to "outlaw" homeschooling.

The state isn't kicking in doors to arrest parents, but remember it would take time for the state to take action, if it decided to do so based on this court's decision. And then the action taken probably would begin with letters mailed home, etc.

The good news may be that this case has brought to light the lack of laws to protect homeschool families in CA, and maybe the governor and the legislature can craft new legislation to protect them. (At least, one can hope...)

249 posted on 03/08/2008 10:26:33 AM PST by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: EGPWS
Winston Churchill had another great quote that went something along the lines of

“The greatest argument against democracy is listening to the conversation of an average voter.” ;^)

250 posted on 03/08/2008 10:28:07 AM PST by Mrs.Z ("...you're a Democrat. You're expected to complain and offer no solutions." Denny Crane)
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