Skip to comments.Need help outing a "fake" war hero. (says he flew at Toko-Ri @ age 15/won Navy Cross).
Posted on 04/03/2008 9:35:22 AM PDT by DCBryan1
I have an co-worker who is older, and completely full of crap. His birthday is May 02, 1937, making him 14-17 at the time of the Korean War.
He has told stories that are unbelievable to clients who, if they find out, could hurt our business. My boss approached me since I am military and asked me to find out how I can get documentation that we can print up in the coffee room to "out him" as a "stolen valor" type of guy.
The latest news is that he won the Navy Cross in 1952 (when he was 15-16) when flying missions over Korea.
My questions are:
Isn't there a "stolen valor" law? And does it only pertain to wearing the uniform, or does it encompass verbal attestations?
Is there an unclassified way to look up someones war records or a datatbase with Navy Cross recipients as there is with the CMOH?
How would you handle the situation? (My first reaction, as a veteran, is an ass stomping of an old man, but I think humility and shunning would be much more appropriate IMHO).
My boss, myself, and co-workers are simply sick of his BS and would like to enlist your sources on the subject.
You might want to ping the banglist guys, as that would probably be a good source.
I would love this information, as well.
What did he fly, and what carrier was he on?
I recognize that wikipedia is not always reliable, but there is a list of recipients here:
Bump for justice.
My first response would probably be to tell him to bring it and his citation in, as a sort of show and tell. Then press on when he hems and haws about doing that.
Did he know William Holden and Mickey Rooney? :)
Toko-Ri was a creation of James Michener.
The Navy Cross is a pretty public award. Ask him to bring in the medal and certificate. Otherwise, unit and station info is probably the way to go.
cant do much better than that.....print it up and post it and or e-mail it to him....If hes on it you owe him
post #11 has two reportedly complete rosters...should satisfy one way or the other
Sound interested and engage him. Get as much detail as you can, written down if possible. What service was he in? What squadron was he with? What type of airplane did he fly? From what airbase or aircraft carrier? What rank was he? What did he do before he flew at Toko-Ri? Where did he take his various pilot training courses? If he gets curious, tell him you told your kids about him and they thought it was cool, and you’re getting the info for them. Once you have simple information like that, you can research using an Internet search engine.
I’m a civilian, but I’ll say this much—it’s always been my impression that in that time period, he’d have to have been a Navy or Marine pilot to win a Navy Cross. Pilots were commissioned officers, which generally (but not always) means he’d have to have had a college degree. Realistically, when you factor that in, plus the time it’d take to train a fighter pilot, I don’t think he could be any younger than 22 and be a Navy/Marine officer pilot of a single-seat or two-seat fighter/attack aircraft. But I’d defer on that to some of our military experts.
This link may help you to get started:
You might start by seeing if his name is in THIS LIST.
Where do we get such men...
These cases were all investigated by the Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General VA-OIG. The VA Office of the Inspector General operates a HOTLINE for the public to confidentially and safely report crimes like Stolen Valor involving VA or its programs. Call 800-488-8244, or fax to 202-565-7936, or e-mail to firstname.lastname@example.org, or write to VA OIG HOTLINE, PO Box 50410, Washington, DC 20091-0410.
The cases filed in the Western District of Washington are being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Ronald J. Friedman. For additional information please contact Emily Langlie, Public Affairs Officer for the United States Attorneys Office, at (206) 553-4110.
There have been a lot of these stories lately. Stolen Valor Act definitely applies here.
Is it possible he has just lied about his birthday (not wanting to reveal his age) and not the rest?
Mistaken identity - Hillary Clinton won the Navy Cross in Korea.
I read recently about a man who was convicted for falsley claiming to have won some medal while serving in the military - so, there could be legal ramifications.
See the book Fake Warriors for advice.
He sounds like a piker - perhaps a real Navy vet could engage him in conversation - a fake will be found out within minutes.
maybe he just “misspoke” when he refuses to bring it in or asks, “Whats a DD-214?”
The fact that this guy is claiming to have won a Navy Cross as a pilot at the age of 15 is egregious and may violate federal law.
Our new electrical specialist claimed to have once belonged to the 75th Ranger Division and that he was also the seventh highest decorated soldier still alive. He also claimed to have a Kentucky Master Electrician's license.
The first claim was easy to disprove, as there was never a Ranger division, and we do have a documented Ranger who works for us and two others who were attached to Ranger units on a temporary basis (one was a medic and the other a translator).
The second claim was even easier to disprove, as there were about one hundred thirty Medal of Honor recipients still alive at the time, and his claims of having four Distinguished Service Crosses just didn't ring true.
And finally, his claim to be a master electrician quickly came unraveled when he couldn't answer the simplest questions about electricity.
He quit about fifteen minutes before he was going to be called to the back and fired for lying on his application.
You can "revise memories" with this stuff.
If you do a Google.com search there ought to be several pieces in the first 10 hits that refer you to its use in psychiatry.
BTW, it can "delete memories", and "add memories", all in the hands of an experienced professional (of some kind).
Probably the reason Hillary thinks she was under fire in Bosnia ~ ever check how many face lifts and tooth jobs she's had done ~ it's incredible. If this is her anesthetic of choice she's developed an interesting set of beliefs based on what the dentist told her (while under), what he had on TV or radio as "background noise" at the time, or maybe what Bill Clinton wanted her to believe ~ yeah, an auxiliary to "date rape drug", the "forgeddabout it drug" for your spouse!
Remember, these people have no morals or scruples so anything is possible.
Back to the guy at work, as I recall what gets these guys busted is when they start wearing pieces of uniforms with insignia, or various awards. The awards are protected by law.
About telling tall tales about military service, not real sure that such behavior in the absence of the insignias and awards are actionable.
Also, the age you are setting for this guy puts him well within the range of Alzheimers. He may very well not be able to differentiate between memories of what he did and what he saw on TV.
With folks who are "elderly" or nearly so, it's probably best to avoid the prosecutorial route as a first course of action.
Behind The Bridges at Toko-ri - true facts behind fictional book by James A. Michener
I own a company and periodically get potential employees claiming military service on their resumes (and I admittedly favor recruiting them).
No claims of medal-of-honor guys, but I’d sure like to be able to check if they got a proper discharge.
The DOD has never been particularly helpful in this regard, essentially demanding a release from the potential employee and a six-eight week waiting period.
Stolen Valor Act of 2005 - Amends the federal criminal code to expand the prohibition against wearing, manufacturing, or selling military decorations or medals without legal authorization to prohibit purchasing, soliciting, mailing, shipping, importing, exporting, producing blank certificates of receipt for, advertising, trading, bartering, or exchanging such decorations or medals without authorization.
Prohibits falsely representing oneself as having been awarded any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the Armed Forces or any of the service medals or badges.
Increases penalties for violations if the offense involves a distinguished service cross, an Air Force Cross, a Navy Cross, a silver star, or a Purple Heart.
Under the Stolen Valor Act, falsely claiming to have received the Navy Cross, Air Force Cross, Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star or Purple Heart would double the maximum penalty to up to a year in prison, bringing those medals in line with the Medal of Honor.
I am probably the only person I know personally, including some that I know served in the military, that could produce a DD-214 without having to order a copy from the Department of Defense.
I posted the link in case anyone was interested in what inspired Michener.
Man, I was what, the eighth poster hitting that link? LOL! I'm gittin' slow...
The guy is a fake. Expose him.
Good thing you guys didn’t set him up to work on a live line eh?!
I think the actual crimes are: (1) wearing honors one did not earn (except in plays/movies) and (2) applying for VA benefits.
Being a blow-hard is not actionable. (I think.)
If he’s lying, I hope you nail him.....
..and if he is telling the truth, buy him a case of beer.
When released from active duty, you're given your form DD-214 and told to guard it with your life. Ask to see it.
I agree. He’s nearly seventy-one. He’s probably just demented.
In any case, I’d say that siccing the FBI on him would be a waste of time and money.
Our idiot liar had given him 14-gauge wire and a 15-amp single pole breaker when he actually needed 6-gauge wire and a 50-amp double pole breaker. If something had gone wrong and that customer's house had burned down or he was electrocuted, that would have been our fault because we didn't check his certification before turning him loose. And I'm pretty sure I speak for all of the other managers when I say that we really don't want a death on our consciouses.
I’d sic them on him anyway, but I’m just mean like that.