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U.S. Guns Arming Mexican Drug Gangs; Second Amendment to Blame? (Barf Alert)
ABC News ^ | April 22, 2008 | BRIAN ROSS and RICHARD ESPOSITO

Posted on 04/22/2008 1:20:48 PM PDT by 300magnum

U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.

"It's a war going on in Mexico, and these types of firearms are the weapons of war for them," said Bill Newell, the special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division of the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which has primary law enforcement jurisdiction for investigating gun smuggling to Mexico.

"It's virtually impossible to buy a firearm in Mexico as a private citizen, so this country is where they come," said Newell.

But U.S. efforts to stop the smuggling of tens of thousands of guns to Mexico, including high-powered assault weapons, have been hampered by lenient American gun laws and the Bush administration's failure to give priority to anti-gun smuggling efforts, officials tell ABC News for a report Tuesday on ABC News' "World News With Charles Gibson."

President Bush said today at a press conference that Mexican President Felipe Calderon again raised the issue of guns at their meeting in New Orleans.

Mexico's strict gun laws are being subverted by the easy availability of weapons in the U.S., the Mexican attorney general, Eduardo Medina-Mora Icaza, told ABC News. "The Second Amendment," said the attorney general, "is certainly not designed to arm and give fire power to organized crime abroad."

More than 3,400 people have been killed by the drug cartels in the last 15 months, 2,000 of them law enforcement officials, according to the Mexican attorney general.

U.S. and Mexican officials say they have traced most of the thousands of high-powered weapons seized from the drug cartels to gun dealers in Texas, California and Arizona.

Assault weapons made in China and Eastern Europe, resembling the AK-47, have become widely and cheaply available in the U.S. since Congress and the Bush administration refused to extend a ban on such weapons in 2004.

Under federal gun laws, gun dealers are not required to report multiple purchases of such weapons because they are classified as rifles.

"If you were to go into a drugstore and buy 20 of these, there is no requirement by the gun dealer to fill out a multiple sales form," said the ATF's Newell.

The drug cartels' weapons of choice include variants of the AK-47, .50-caliber rifles converted to automatic firing capability and a Belgian-made pistol called the "cop killer" or "mata policia" because of its ability to pierce a bulletproof vest.

"It's in high demand by your violent drug cartels, their assassins in Mexico," said Newell of the ATF. The gun can fire a high-powered round used in a rifle.

An ABC News investigation found the "mata policia" and a wide range of assault weapons prominently displayed at gun stores along the border in Texas, the state providing the most weapons to the drug cartels, according to the ATF.

Under Texas and federal law, there is no waiting period for the purchase of such weapons and no restriction on how many can be bought at a time.

U.S. officials say there is little they can do to go after licensed gun dealers because large purchases, dozens or hundreds at a time, are legal for U.S. citizens and legal immigrants with an IRS green card unless a gun dealer suspects the purchase is being made for someone else.

ATF agents say legitimate gun dealers will often report suspicious activities, but that a small but significant number looks the other way.

"I have personally worked cases where gun dealers have willfully allowed hundreds of guns to leave their gun store knowing that they were going into the wrong hands," said Newell.

While the Bush administration has asked for an additional $100 million to combat drug violence on the border, only $948,000, less than one percent, has been allocated to the ATF under the White House proposal.

"We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell.

"It sure shows a lack of concern on our part for this piece of the problem," said Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., who has introduced legislation to give the ATF an additional $15 million to improve border efforts.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist
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Well, build the fence.
1 posted on 04/22/2008 1:20:48 PM PDT by 300magnum
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To: 300magnum

Maybe we can become such a nuisance to Mexico, that they will build the fence for us ;)


2 posted on 04/22/2008 1:23:26 PM PDT by catbertz
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To: 300magnum
"It's virtually impossible to buy a firearm in Mexico as a private citizen, so this country is where they come," said Newell.

You mean there is no illegal gun traficking taking place in Mexico of firearms manufactured from countries outside of the America's? I find that hard to believe.

3 posted on 04/22/2008 1:26:23 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Soldier home after 15 months in the Triangle of death)
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To: 300magnum

Yup. Only U.S. guns are being sold to the Mexicans. BS.


4 posted on 04/22/2008 1:26:31 PM PDT by Eurale
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To: 300magnum

“legitimate gun dealers will often report suspicious activities, but that a small but significant number looks the other way. “


5 posted on 04/22/2008 1:28:16 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: 300magnum

We get cheap labor, they get cheap guns.


6 posted on 04/22/2008 1:28:55 PM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: 300magnum
"It's virtually impossible to buy a firearm in Mexico as a private citizen,...

What more proof of the old saying "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" do you need?

7 posted on 04/22/2008 1:28:55 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: 300magnum

Just returning the favor, amigos.


8 posted on 04/22/2008 1:30:11 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: 300magnum
Behold, the mind of a liberal:

"Never mind the drugs coming across the border that we like to snort at the dance club before anonymous group sex, it's the guns going south to arm the violent narcotrafficantes who bring us our favorite drugs. That's the real problem. Blame the NRA."

Gee whiz.

9 posted on 04/22/2008 1:31:18 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
Yes folks, that's really in the title: "Second Amendment to Blame". It's all our fault that Mexico is a corrup, crime-ridden, gang-infested third world hellhole.

What a pantload of crass, blatant agitprop from start to finish.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

10 posted on 04/22/2008 1:31:26 PM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: 300magnum
Mexico's strict gun laws are being subverted by the easy availability of weapons in the U.S., the Mexican attorney general, Eduardo Medina-Mora Icaza, told ABC News. "The Second Amendment," said the attorney general, "is certainly not designed to arm and give fire power to organized crime abroad."

Deal with it. You send us illegals. We send back destabilizing weapons for your country. Fair's fair.

11 posted on 04/22/2008 1:33:13 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Party ahead of principles; eventually you'll be selling out anything to anyone for the right price.)
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To: 300magnum
....Second Amendment to Blame?....

Yes and no:

Yes, we're not allowed to shoot border crossers ourselves.

No, the border is open at the will of a lame and mostly nonfunctional government.

12 posted on 04/22/2008 1:34:24 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: 300magnum

MEDIA AIDS GLOBAL TERRORISM First Amendment to blame?


13 posted on 04/22/2008 1:34:32 PM PDT by omega4179 (enviro-fatigued voter.)
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To: 300magnum

Hey, the American guns are only shooting the people that Mexican guns won’t.

If the mexicans want to build a fence to keep the guns out, I say we split the cost with them.

Have they tried making Mexico a ‘Gun Free Zone’?


14 posted on 04/22/2008 1:36:30 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: 300magnum

Perhaps Mexico should build a fence and limit the assistance to border crossers. I am assuming that the people who get the pamphlets on how to come North might be able to reverse track. I sure don’t see them whining when U.S. Dollars are sent to Mexico tax free. This is not an BATF Problem.


15 posted on 04/22/2008 1:37:10 PM PDT by Steamburg (Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: 300magnum
Sounds like a job for the Three Amigos!


16 posted on 04/22/2008 1:38:12 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: GingisK

That can change


17 posted on 04/22/2008 1:39:30 PM PDT by wastedyears (The US Military is what goes Bump in the night.)
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To: 300magnum
""We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell."

HERE is the real motivation behind this whining---ATF as an agency hasn't gotten any "goodies" from the border control budget.

Also, last I heard, it was none of the ATF's business to enforce (or help enforce) the laws in Mexico.

And lastly, I suspect that the REAL source of the guns is REAL assault rifles coming in along with drug shipments from further south. I'm sure Nicaragua has lots of real full-auto-capable AK-47's to offer.

18 posted on 04/22/2008 1:41:28 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: 300magnum
"mata policia"

What the heck is this? .38 Super maybe?

19 posted on 04/22/2008 1:41:58 PM PDT by Pistolshot (When you let what you are define who you are, you create racial divisiveness.)
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To: 300magnum

The fact ATF is saying this is not good.

Wonder if Prez. Bush and his NAU buddies have this on their agenda down in N.O.? SPP?


20 posted on 04/22/2008 1:44:54 PM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: Pistolshot

I think they are referring to the FN57 but I could be wrong.


21 posted on 04/22/2008 1:46:08 PM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero >>> with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona....)
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To: SoldierDad

Yeah, Mexican officials are famous for their honesty and refusal to accept bribes so you can bet the farm that not one of them ever stole a firearm from the arsenal and sold it to a criminal or looked the other way while a boatload of guns just in from Cuba or Nicaragua was unloaded.

And everyone knows that no Mexican was ever robbed at gunpoint or murdered with a gun prior to 2001.

Yes - this is sarcasm.


22 posted on 04/22/2008 1:47:24 PM PDT by scory
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To: Joe Brower

23 posted on 04/22/2008 1:47:42 PM PDT by phrogphlyer
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To: 300magnum

Nahh - not the guns. Just the Wuss in the White House
(guess that is what the middle initial “W” stands for) who is responsible. The civil war along our southern border is due to the fact won’t build a fence or use the military to protect American citizens against an invasion of Mexicans. This has created a goldmine for drug and illigal alien smuggling gangs and they are fighting over the loot Jorge is so generously providing them with.


24 posted on 04/22/2008 1:47:55 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: 300magnum

It is indeed a barfer. The Mexicans are not the “People” that our rights apply to.


25 posted on 04/22/2008 1:49:24 PM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: Centurion2000

We ought to be sending armed illegals back to Mexico - let them fix their country.


26 posted on 04/22/2008 1:51:23 PM PDT by Little Ray (McCain, Obama, and Hillary: I HATE THEM ALL.)
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To: 300magnum
.50-caliber rifles converted to automatic firing capability

Oh yeah, tons of these around. Used in hold-ups at 7-11's daily.

27 posted on 04/22/2008 1:52:37 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat lead.)
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To: 300magnum
Maybe our criminals are just selling the guns that Mexican criminals refuse to sell.

 

...or something like that.

28 posted on 04/22/2008 2:00:31 PM PDT by Redcloak (OK... I'm posting everything in green. Can I be excused from all of the Earth Day bull??)
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To: ├čudda├čudd

The 5.7 SS190 is an AP round and will penetrate up to Class III protection and is for LE use only in this country.

The 5.7 rounds legal for civilian use are not particularly
effective against body armor. If Mexican criminals can
get auto rifles from abroads and from their own police and army who can say they can’t also get AP ammunition?


29 posted on 04/22/2008 2:04:56 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: Wonder Warthog
Give the man a cigar....

It's always a cover for the 'more resources' (read YOUR MONEY).

If guns going across the border are a problem, BUILD THE FREAKING FENCE AND PATROL IT YOU MORONS!

L

30 posted on 04/22/2008 2:08:42 PM PDT by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: 300magnum
Where to start with all the BS in the article.

The drug cartels' weapons of choice include variants of the AK-47, .50-caliber rifles converted to automatic firing capability and a Belgian-made pistol called the "cop killer" or "mata policia" because of its ability to pierce a bulletproof vest.

An ABC News investigation found the "mata policia" and a wide range of assault weapons prominently displayed at gun stores along the border in Texas, the state providing the most weapons to the drug cartels, according to the ATF.

Under Texas and federal law, there is no waiting period for the purchase of such weapons and no restriction on how many can be bought at a time.

U.S. officials say there is little they can do to go after licensed gun dealers because large purchases, dozens or hundreds at a time, are legal for U.S. citizens and legal immigrants with an IRS green card unless a gun dealer suspects the purchase is being made for someone else.

A straw man purchase is illegal and a federal crime.

The AK-47 clones are only semiautomatic and not fully automatic. Usually they fire from a closed bolt, which is a big difference. If you can find an original parts kit and machine the receiver, it is a violation of federal law to create an undocumented fully automatic rifle.

If you purchase multiple firearms during a month, you get on the ATF watch-list.

50 caliber rifles converted to automatic firing capability....this is absolute BS. You can't convert a Barret to automatic firing. If you could you would violate a number of federal laws.

Now as the the cute little FN new handgun. Yes its bullet has high penetration, but so do ChiCom & Warsaw Pack 7.62x25 handguns. Similarly most rifles, even of modest power will defeat a standard police issue bullet proof vest.

The question for the media and the world is if the RTKBA or the second amendment is a God given right and documented by the US Constitution, then most of the background checks, assault weapon bans, etc. verge on "infringement" of this right and are violations of civil rights.

The US Supreme Court case is really what this article is about and trying to provide talking points to those that want the Supreme Court to strike down the 2nd amendment.

31 posted on 04/22/2008 2:14:07 PM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: 300magnum

I wonder if those smuggling guns into Mexico are illegal aliens... I’d be willing to wager though...

Mark


32 posted on 04/22/2008 2:16:20 PM PDT by MarkL
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To: rahbert

Thanks for the info.


33 posted on 04/22/2008 2:16:53 PM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero >>> with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona....)
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To: phrogphlyer

There, see, a few more of those signs, and that should fix everything. Oh, and they might want to also put that sign in Spanish, just because we’re doing that whole biligual thing.


34 posted on 04/22/2008 2:17:02 PM PDT by Hoffer Rand (0'bambi: the audacity of hype)
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To: phrogphlyer
Yep, I have read stories of American tourists being tossed in Mexican jails (not nice places) when the Mexican Federales "found" a single lost .22 round that had fallen down the crack between their car's seat cushions...
35 posted on 04/22/2008 2:22:17 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: 300magnum

Mexican drug cartels have limitless funds and complex smuggling networks. They can buy anything they want. At one time, they even owned a satellite. They also own more politicians, law enforcement and soldiers than is easy to comprehend.

So, the ATF is saying that it is our fault and that we need to surrender our rights??? That bum needs to lose his job. So does his boss and his boss’ boss. The ATF is way past due for disbanding.


36 posted on 04/22/2008 2:26:48 PM PDT by FreeInWV
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To: Robert357
50 caliber rifles converted to automatic firing capability....this is absolute BS. You can't convert a Barret to automatic firing. If you could you would violate a number of federal laws.

The article stated that people are converting AK's to .50cal fullauto.

That's not happening in the USA--it's happening offshore, whether Mexico or South AMerica.

37 posted on 04/22/2008 2:28:04 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: 300magnum
U.S. gun stores and gun shows are the source of more than 90 percent of the weapons being used by Mexico's ruthless drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican law enforcement officials.

THAT is the line which needs careful examination.

The assertion must be documented, and that won't happen

It's a budget-grab by ATF/E

38 posted on 04/22/2008 2:30:06 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: scory

So, what then is up with this BS story about Mexican criminals getting their firearms from the U.S.?


39 posted on 04/22/2008 2:45:04 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Soldier home after 15 months in the Triangle of death)
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To: 300magnum
On the other hand it's virtually impossible for a private citizen in the U.S. to buy a kilo of cocaine legally so it must all come from Mexico.
Here's an idea-Let Mexico keep their drugs in Mexico and let the U.S. keep its guns in the U.S. Fair enough deal?
40 posted on 04/22/2008 3:23:50 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Pistolshot
They mean the FN Five seveN (5.7mm, or .22 caliber) pistol. The pistol fires a tiny bullet very fast. The original MILITARY ammo developed for it was a good armor penetrator, but that ammo is NOT SOLD IN THE US AT ALL. The 5.7mm ammo available on the commercial market is expanding ammo that won't penetrate a vest. This was agreed to in response to police concerns.

So the whole "cop killer" argument is a crock of guacamole.

I had to snicker at the Mexican AG who claimed you can buy 20 AK-47s at a "drug store", or hundreds of them at a gun store. No se puede!

41 posted on 04/22/2008 3:32:08 PM PDT by Sender (Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom.)
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To: ninenot

Over the last few years hasn’t the Coast Guard captured about a dozen submarines used for smuggling? I guess they bought those in American gunshops too??


42 posted on 04/22/2008 4:08:57 PM PDT by FreeInWV
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To: 300magnum
BRIAN ROSS and RICHARD ESPOSITO

No "Barf Alert" necessary.

43 posted on 04/22/2008 4:42:59 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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44 posted on 04/22/2008 5:39:24 PM PDT by KarinG1 (Opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not necessarily represent those of sane people.)
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To: SoldierDad

Especially when one can go to another third world country and buy full auto AK-47’s for $100.


45 posted on 04/22/2008 6:07:27 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: 300magnum

I think I can fix this...all ATF has to do is add this question to their Form 4473:

Are you a member of one of Mexico’s ruthless drug cartels?

Yes_________ No___________

If they answer “yes” then the sale is not approved...problem solved. /sarc


46 posted on 04/22/2008 6:33:36 PM PDT by Towed_Jumper (Stephen Hopkins: Founding Father who had Cerebral Palsy.."My hand trembles, my heart does not.")
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To: 300magnum
"We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell.

The "Money Quote"...

47 posted on 04/22/2008 7:00:20 PM PDT by Gritty (The Clintons always had a touch of the zombies about them: unkillable, you can't win-Andrew Sullivan)
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To: 300magnum

I fail to see a problem here.

Let them kill each other. If they swear to do so, I’ll buy ‘em a CASE of ammo.


48 posted on 04/22/2008 7:15:45 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: clee1

“I fail to see a problem here. Let them kill each other. If they swear to do so, I’ll buy ‘em a CASE of ammo.”

But if all of that ammo was “micro-stamped” we could use that information for even better crime solving —just like here in the U.S. /sarc


49 posted on 04/22/2008 8:34:41 PM PDT by Towed_Jumper (Stephen Hopkins: Founding Father who had Cerebral Palsy.."My hand trembles, my heart does not.")
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To: 300magnum
"We need a lot more resources," said the ATF's Newell.

We a lot less BATFE is what we need. Like none.

But the incoming 'Rat administration would much rather cut the DoD budget, giving some fraction to the BATFErs, and the rest to the poverty pimps.

McPain OTOH, will send even more to "his friends" at the BATFE, but probably not out of the DoD budget... unless to placate "his friends accross the aisle. Friends like Fat Teddy, and UpChuck Schumer.

50 posted on 04/22/2008 10:36:13 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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