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Can America Survive $5-a-gallon at the Pump?

Posted on 04/30/2008 7:19:14 PM PDT by Charles Bronson Forever

Absolutely, but very tough times are ahead. Really, how the hell are we gonna get out of this mess unless we drill and refine at home? When is Washington going to do something? Easy. When WE do something about it.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: gasprices
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To: Sunnyflorida
But if we are anywhere near 3 billion barrels in the Bakken, it's not going to do much good. It would have to be a much larger recoverable figure.

They say the best cure for high prices is high prices. I am hopeful that the market will produce an alternative to compete with fungible oil.
101 posted on 04/30/2008 9:41:41 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

I still don’t think gas is expensive at these levels. I see people driving all over the place. Airports are still jammed. Hotel prices are skyhigh.

A lot of people you can see on this thread could have made better decisions. Like living far from work because they want the space.

I still say the standard of living in this Country is the best in the World. And there is a lot of opportunity. It is not easy to take advantage of but it is out there.


102 posted on 04/30/2008 9:48:37 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

Bakken is 25 to 400 billion and that is just one.


103 posted on 04/30/2008 9:50:15 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

“But if we are anywhere near 3 billion barrels in the Bakken, it’s not going to do much good”

And you only need the marginal amount to supply to lower prices if that is the objective. One good thing that you infer is the higher price politically should and economically will induce production.

I would like to see the price/supply equation go to us being a net exporter. Or close at least. A lot of the issue with prices is weak dollar. A weak dollar is not all bad but these levels, and the rate, is not good.


104 posted on 04/30/2008 9:53:21 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html


105 posted on 04/30/2008 9:55:08 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

One more point then I have to hit the sack.

Check out the last paragraph in the story. The money transfer outside the U.S. is what some people focus on but just think of the jobs and economic stimulus from just Bakken. The FL economy is not great right now. Can you imagine the change we would get from the destin dome alone. These are good jobs.


106 posted on 04/30/2008 10:00:27 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: pctech
Try telling that those of us who are being killed financially by the rising prices at the pump. And don't give me this "adjusted for inflation" bullcrap.

All those spouting thats bullcrap are either on government retirement pensions, on the government payroll, or have their heads up their butts.

107 posted on 04/30/2008 10:00:33 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: All
$5 a gallon gas?

Thats why I drive a ZAP PK.

My cost is about TWO cents per mile. But I can plugin for FREE at many locations andthen my cost per mile is ZERO.

im001880

Charging up for FREE at Lowes.
108 posted on 04/30/2008 10:27:52 PM PDT by troy McClure
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Jim is right about the nursing jobs. My MIL is a nurse and is beating off job offers with a stick. Honestly, it’s a profession more men should get into.


109 posted on 04/30/2008 11:19:29 PM PDT by Marie (Why is it that some people believe everything that happens is the will of G-d - except Israel?)
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To: pepsionice
The first hit will be the bottom of the barrel folks....who make $7 an hour at Wal-Mart. Then later the $35k a year folks. And by next year...even the folks who make $60k a year will start to complain.

I'm a stay at home mom. I was considering getting a job to help out now that the kids are older. After figuring the tax situation out and the added fuel costs, it breaks down that we'd actually *loose* money if I went back to work.

Very depressing.

110 posted on 04/30/2008 11:33:03 PM PDT by Marie (Why is it that some people believe everything that happens is the will of G-d - except Israel?)
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To: rintense
re #43....and your statement is the bottom line....the goons on The Hill seem not to care about this at all as they continue to do nothing to open up drilling. Also, speculation and manipulation of the commodity is driving the price to where it is.....travel this summer will be the lowest comparatively speaking since WWII.

Personally, I prefer to eat and stay cool than ride around shopping and visiting and site-seeing.Smart people are holding on to their pennnies, cause we will need them.

National average per gallon at the pump will surely be $4.25/gal by Memorial Day weekend.....I have been calling this since last Sept.

111 posted on 05/01/2008 2:48:49 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: mysterio
I don't like the hperinfaltion for gas neither, but what worries me most in this country are the families struggling who make $69k / year gross and are trying to pay for a home.

Let's not forget the goobermint at all levels will raise our taxes after Nov. 08 to make up the lost revenues of poor national energy policies.

The economic effects of gas/food prices are already seriously beginning to affect other areas of the economy as wages (real buying power) is going negative from all the gains in 2006 have been wiped out since 3rd qtr 2007...and this folks, is what is not being covered in the news.

112 posted on 05/01/2008 2:55:13 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: motor_racer

How much did you pay for gas 4 years or 8 years ago. How much do you pay today. Now compare that increase with other prices you pay. This is how people look at it. Just from a personal prospective. I live in a fairly new home (over 5 years old). Between gas and Natural gas. Over the last two months I have spent just over $780 in gas alone,and there is no end in sight. Thank goodness I make a good salary. Nevertheless, I can see why people are outraged.


113 posted on 05/01/2008 4:05:35 AM PDT by Sprite518
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To: Harrius Magnus

Yeah. But the number of responsible people is rapidly declining. Its the ones who will 1. blame the government and 2. blame the fiscally smart people that worry, no, scare me. Again, look at Katrina to see what scum will do.


114 posted on 05/01/2008 5:21:49 AM PDT by rintense (McCain can pound sand.)
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To: RSmithOpt

I do a lot of boating with friends, and I know that will be way different this year. I’ve gotten to the point where I actually plan my errands, groceries, etc. on one day, in the shortest route possible. May even pick up a scooter for the trip to and from work.


115 posted on 05/01/2008 5:27:32 AM PDT by rintense (McCain can pound sand.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Government employment.....creation of useless legislation and agencies...that’s the only true growth sector we have.


116 posted on 05/01/2008 5:34:35 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: rintense
Good luck...what most people are forget that are the "Gas is Cheap", 'People don't want to change their habits', etc., etc. are failing to realize that the middle-class with 2+ kids and further down in income are in a painful situation now because of gas, food, medical and yes, taxes.

The MSM and the politicoho's are hiding the extent as to what is happening.

Research retail sales back to last Sept. I am not talking about a few select stores like Wally World etc., and then look at the same stores this past March, April. While dollars revenues may be up from prices increases on items, not inflation adjusted, I'd like to see no. of items sold and no. of receipts.

Read a while back many name brand retailers are closing stores in the malls with some even going under.

117 posted on 05/01/2008 6:18:50 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: RSmithOpt
More domino results from the gas prices. I just more people would realize it isn't JUST about gas.

Though, when I saw an article about a woman who was complaining because her family had to eat macaroni and cheese, and grilled cheese sandwiches, I just wanted to scream.

118 posted on 05/01/2008 6:29:11 AM PDT by rintense (McCain can pound sand.)
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To: rintense
Exactly!!

You can bet that after the Nov elections, our taxes are going up as a result from the gov't 'needing' more money becuase of higher prices from their own poor energy and economic (sub-prime) polocies. By the time those go into effect in 2009, Gas will most like have settled in at $4.25 / gal....food will be at least another 25% higher....wait until you see the price of meat late summer/fall.

So, that being said, no way are wages going up as businesses absorb the effects of high energy costs.

Here in NC we are expecting an already approved 3% hike in electricity stating around June 15.

Also, 3 weeks ago, the local MSM was doing a report on how there's now a shortfall in revenues for the state goobermint. We've also grant an insurance rate hike of 5.5% effective 07/01/2008. Less than a year ago, the state's coffers had a $1.8 billion surplus.

The domino's are getting ready to fall quickly.

Of course frugal families with 6-figure combined incomes will not be affected as harshly, but, what do people think is going to happen to the couple with 2 kids and a $65K combined income (gross) and a $110k double-wide / condo / small SFD, a dog, and 2 cars???

People can call me nuts, but the federal gov't just finished hiring 76,000 new people the 1st qtr of this year.

119 posted on 05/01/2008 7:03:41 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: rintense
Exactly!!

You can bet that after the Nov elections, our taxes are going up as a result from the gov't 'needing' more money becuase of higher prices from their own poor energy and economic (sub-prime) policies. By the time those go into effect in 2009, Gas will most like have settled in at $4.25 / gal....food will be at least another 25% higher....wait until you see the price of meat late summer/fall.

So, that being said, no way are wages going up as businesses absorb the effects of high energy costs.

Here in NC we are expecting an already approved 3% hike in electricity stating around June 15.

Also, 3 weeks ago, the local MSM was doing a report on how there's now a shortfall in revenues for the state goobermint. We've also grant an insurance rate hike of 5.5% effective 07/01/2008. Less than a year ago, the state's coffers had a $1.8 billion surplus.

The domino's are getting ready to fall quickly.

Of course frugal families with 6-figure combined incomes will not be affected as harshly, but, what do people think is going to happen to the couple with 2 kids and a $65K combined income (gross) and a $110k double-wide / condo / small SFD, a dog, and 2 cars???

People can call me nuts, but the federal gov't just finished hiring 76,000 new people the 1st qtr of this year.

120 posted on 05/01/2008 7:03:56 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: Sunnyflorida
2.1 billion barrels are economically recoverable. And that's with prices at >$115 a barrel. While it's nice to have that reserve, I'm not convinced that will do anything to lower the price we are currently paying.
121 posted on 05/01/2008 7:17:39 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: RSmithOpt

One factor to consider is that business, and consumers, can adjust somewhat to the higher energy prices. We spent a lot of money retrofitting our office buildings to save on energy and that has really paid off. I notice the food service companies no longer deliver food exclusively by semi rigs and use smaller vehicles instead.


122 posted on 05/01/2008 7:28:51 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Charles Bronson Forever
Can America Survive $5-a-gallon at the Pump?

Yes

Will life change appreciably?

For some, yes. For others, not so much. It depends on your level of income.

Will economic/lifestyle changes occur?

For many, yes, as they come to the realization that they can no longer frivolously afford to jump in the car and drive to the store for a gallon of milk or a pack of cigs. People will start mentally calculating how much a trip from point a to point b will cost in gas. Unnecessary trips to the store or to play will start being reduced &/or eliminated. Folks will start thinking more about how to accomplish multiple things in one car trip to town or while on their way to and from work.

123 posted on 05/01/2008 7:29:38 AM PDT by OB1kNOb ("We like Mr. Obama and we hope he will win the election." - Ahmed Yousef, Hamas PM advisor)
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To: pepsionice

I know people blast the Prius (and other hybrids), but it is very nice to not have to put much money into gas right now.

The impact of rising gas prices has just not impacted the Prius very much.

Now, my mini-van is another story. I’m now spending $70 every time I fill up, and I fill up about once a week at least.

If gas prices go up, then you will see a savings on a Prius.

Now, they are making hybrid SUVs. There is a Toyota mini-van in Japan, but they haven’t started selling it here.

Hybrids are also very nice to drive. They are much quieter than normal cars because the gas motor shuts down at low speeds and stop lights. They also seem smoother to me.


124 posted on 05/01/2008 10:14:45 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Marie

I did some substitute teaching last year. It just wasn’t worth it after taxes.

If I went back to work full-time in my career (software engineering), it would be worth it. However, I don’t think my kids and hubby (or me) could handle me working full time.

Instead of working part-time, I think I could make more money by trying to figure out how to cut some of our expenses.


125 posted on 05/01/2008 10:18:15 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: mysterio

We obviously linking to different info. My links say up to a few hundred billion barrels.


126 posted on 05/01/2008 12:30:57 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida

And mine is the geological survey that your link was referring to that was about to be performed on the site. A lot of the oil that was estimated is not recoverable.


127 posted on 05/01/2008 12:34:58 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

http://www.nd.gov/ndic/ic-press/bakken-form-06.pdf

http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?ID=42081

http://geology.rockbandit.net/2008/04/03/bakken-formation-could-boost-oil-reserves/

The last one hates the concept of finding oil. LOL.

BTW, I do not trust the USGS one little bit on this. Hired way too many stumpies over the years.

Well one thing for sure is that every time people predict production they are grossly wrong.


128 posted on 05/01/2008 12:40:47 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

BTW, while every body ‘cept me is complaining about prices I still think it is not too expensive. I just drove up US 41 and it was packed. How many of those trips are necesary. 80% 90% 70%. How many are joyrides or due to bad planning 20% 10% 30%?

Are they all driving new Caddies?

When I see traffic down 20-30% I will believe prices are too high. Meanwhile we need to drill. Even 5 million additional domestic production is a huge impact on prices and exports of petro dollars. We need to get all we can and let price seek its natural level.


129 posted on 05/01/2008 12:47:23 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

BTW, while every body ‘cept me is complaining about prices I still think it is not too expensive. I just drove up US 41 and it was packed. How many of those trips are necesary. 80% 90% 70%. How many are joyrides or due to bad planning 20% 10% 30%?

Are they all driving new Caddies?

When I see traffic down 20-30% I will believe prices are too high. Meanwhile we need to drill. Even 5 million additional domestic production is a huge impact on prices and exports of petro dollars. We need to get all we can and let price seek its natural level.


130 posted on 05/01/2008 12:47:28 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida
When I see traffic down 20-30%

Us regular folk still have to drive to work regardless of the price.

The better indicator is what discretionary spending is doing. Because those of us with no choice except to drive have made the cut in discretionary spending. If you think you can run an economy with a large percentage of us cutting discretionary spending back to almost nothing, good luck.
131 posted on 05/01/2008 1:00:17 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: RSmithOpt

You’ll love this. I was reading another forum and a poster said President Bush has taken away his right to cheap food and gas. This is the insane crap that is going to send this country into chaos.


132 posted on 05/01/2008 6:18:53 PM PDT by rintense (McCain can pound sand.)
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To: mysterio

“Us regular folk still have to drive to work regardless of the price.”

But clearly that is not what is happening. People with less than caddies are all over the place.


133 posted on 05/01/2008 6:23:09 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida
I'll explain again. Lower income people are still on the road because they have to be. They have to go to work and pick up kids. They are just not buying other things. When they run out of money to buy even gas, they will borrow. When they run out of credit, they will go on the government dole.

We are at the not buying other things / borrowing phase at this point.
134 posted on 05/01/2008 6:54:52 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

And by “we,” I mean current drivers. Not me personally. I am not borrowing to pay for fuel. I’m just not buying much else.


135 posted on 05/01/2008 6:55:53 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: rintense
OK, I'll put my tin foil hat on and say this:

IMO, the push to remove import tariffs and export US manufacturing to Asia was an effort to improve the bottom line for US companies using cheap labor.

Now because of planned legislation to force banks to lend to unqualified and / or illegal alien borrowers for mortgages, the adjustable rate mortgages, the US is on the way down in its standard of living because of the devaluation of the dollar.

Factor in federally sponsored open borders for an illegal alien invasion to keep domestic labor wages low too.

This my FRiend is all part of the NWO as ID theft is rampant and the US taxpayer in NC is spending on average 700 million a year for the freebies the illegals get.

It is a conspired plan of attack on the middle class here and capitalism.

Follow the money.

Now, US citizens are seeing hyperinflation in the 3 things we use every day...energy, food, and medical care.

Of course there are those that will disagree, but a recession is coming like we've haven't seen since the end of WWII. Watch. It will be global too.

PS....Our taxes will go up and average of 8-9% at all levels after the Nov. election effective 2nd qtr 2009 with blue collar wages remaining stagnant.

136 posted on 05/02/2008 2:10:38 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: mysterio

“I’ll explain again. Lower income people are still on the road because they have to be.”

This is simply not true. We have bars that “low income” people hang out after work and they are packed. Are these on a direct line from home to work. NO.

I see people driving in “low-income” cars all day long. People complain about price of gas while buying cigarettes!!!

I really do not care what people spend their money on, but to think that there is still a lot discretionary driving and spending by ALL segments of the economy and to think otherwise is frankly just not accurate.


137 posted on 05/02/2008 7:20:12 AM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida
This is simply not true.

Yes, it is.

We have bars that “low income” people hang out after work and they are packed.

I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you anecdotal evidence. The bars in my town are pretty much empty outside of Saturday night.

but to think that there is still a lot discretionary driving and spending by ALL segments of the economy and to think otherwise is frankly just not accurate.

There is still some of that going on because people are borrowing to do it. In the next few years, they won't be able to borrow more.

I'm sorry, it's simply incorrect to assert that gas is cheap and that people are just whiners for complaining about it.
138 posted on 05/02/2008 7:26:39 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Charles Bronson Forever

American’s will survive it.. the hyperwealthy investnment bankers and their servants in congress who are behind the mess very likely will not.


139 posted on 05/02/2008 7:29:17 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

“American’s will survive it.. the hyperwealthy investnment bankers and their servants in congress who are behind the mess very likely will not.”

What a shock..I never knew that congress set the price of crude oil for OPEC...I never knew that Chavez was a member of congress...how about that....


140 posted on 05/02/2008 7:31:15 AM PDT by Moby Grape
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To: mysterio

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120968760267261321.html?mod=djemEditorialPage


141 posted on 05/02/2008 7:42:54 AM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida
what being "green" really means is that they all require vast amounts of land.

Biodiesel can be made from anything, including algae.
142 posted on 05/02/2008 7:45:08 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Impeach the Boy

Futures manipulation has nothing to do with Chavez or OPEC.


143 posted on 05/02/2008 7:59:27 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: mysterio
” it's simply incorrect to assert that gas is cheap and that people are just whiners for complaining about it. “

Your assertion that low income people are not still taking unnecessary trips is wrong. Your assertion that discretionary spending has dried up is wrong. Your assertion that new borrowing is at an all time high is not correct (that was the housing bubble).

Any assertion that this is not the land of opportunity and ANY American cannot or should not improve their standard of living is stupid.

My assertion that the price will not come down unless: 1) there is an increase in supply; 2) and/or a decrease in demand is correct. Let's see what the consumption numbers are like. I bet they in no way reflect a secession in demand. The only way you could be correct is if there was no discretionary driving - I bet half the use of gasoline is driving around and going to tennis or seeing gramma or going to to the bar.

I can tell you in FL there are millions of cars on the road. We still have thousands of out of state plates. How many trips to FL are necessary. There are still millions of people cruising to Orlando. People love to complain, but they love their cars, and love to go places. I see nothing wrong with either complaining nor driving. I just find it insufferable whining when they do both. I started over a year ago talking to people at gas stations and watching their behaivors. Try it. They all complain but ask them where they are headed. Or where they are from. Watch the pop and smokes they buy. Ask them if they know we have massive deposits that are not taped. Ask them to compare the profit margins of MSFT and XOM. Ask them if they know the ratio of profits to taxes either at the pump or at XOM. Ask them if they would give upa six pack a week to buy XOM shares.

Wake up America. If you want lower prices stop driving or drill.

144 posted on 05/02/2008 8:01:31 AM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida

We’ll just agree to disagree.


145 posted on 05/02/2008 8:41:52 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Which occupation is growing in America? Go ahead. Name one!
Debt collector
146 posted on 05/02/2008 8:45:59 AM PDT by Aut Pax Aut Bellum (One of these days I am gonna read the whole post first before replying, but not today...)
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To: Kickass Conservative

Yeup. The gas prices and mild winter helped me get a GMC Yukon cheap for the wife. Hammered them down on the used price. She drives to work and back, which is just 3 miles away, so lower mileage wasn’t an issue very much.


147 posted on 05/02/2008 8:54:10 AM PDT by Aut Pax Aut Bellum (One of these days I am gonna read the whole post first before replying, but not today...)
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Paid $1.47 for propane last April (pre-buy for the Oct ‘07-Mar ‘08 season). Folks that didn’t pre-buy for last season paid as high as 2.69 per gal..
Just paid $2.15 a gal. for pre-buy for next season.

Not good. This is going to break alot of folks!


148 posted on 05/02/2008 3:15:30 PM PDT by Danette ("If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.")
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To: OKIEDOC

bump


149 posted on 05/02/2008 3:18:51 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Party ahead of principles; eventually you'll be selling out anything to anyone for the right price.)
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To: HamiltonJay

What does CONGRESS have to do with futures?

Should Congress step in and set limits on something that has been a free market function for over 100 years?

The only thing I see politicians doing is the usual class war and envy demagoguery....Obama says we need to do something about “CEO salaries”..

If EVERY American bought ALL their automobile gas for a year from Exxon (the company the media and politicians love to point a finger at) and IF the CEO worked for FREE...it would save the American public 48 cents per year....Yeah, those politicians (particularly liberals) know that they can lead the public by the nose and make them think they are doing something for the little guy.


150 posted on 05/04/2008 9:52:59 AM PDT by Moby Grape
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