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Can America Survive $5-a-gallon at the Pump?

Posted on 04/30/2008 7:19:14 PM PDT by Charles Bronson Forever

Absolutely, but very tough times are ahead. Really, how the hell are we gonna get out of this mess unless we drill and refine at home? When is Washington going to do something? Easy. When WE do something about it.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: gasprices
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To: Sunnyflorida

It really is all about choices. Unfortunately too many folks are unwilling to suffer the inconvenience of changing their behavior, lifestyle, etc. to adapt to new and changing circumstances.


51 posted on 04/30/2008 8:18:41 PM PDT by Jim Hill
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To: kempo

Those people sure got quiet all of a sudden. You’d think they would be jumping for joy. Now why aren’t they. :)


52 posted on 04/30/2008 8:18:58 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Gas pump price re-setter.
53 posted on 04/30/2008 8:19:43 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Guns don't kill people, gun free zones kill people)
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To: Jim Hill

A lot is ignorance. Some people that complain about gas prices do not realize Ethanol is one of the reasons.


54 posted on 04/30/2008 8:21:42 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida
I actually have a grad degree. I work in research. I like my job. But I'm not rich. I think if all of us who work in basic research were to quit our jobs to get better paying ones so we can pay extreme prices for energy, the country might be a bit worse off.

I don't care about being a millionaire. But a lot of us are feeling the pinch, and it bothers me that our country refuses to pursue energy independence.

Anyway, I presented the example because a large percentage of our GDP is people going out and buying stuff. If a lot of people in my income range stop going out and making discretionary purchases, I would guess the effects will be widespread.
55 posted on 04/30/2008 8:21:51 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

government!


56 posted on 04/30/2008 8:22:42 PM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
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To: Secret Agent Man
Yes, because we can choose to change habits and priorities and adjust personal budgets, or make more money and deal with it that way.

I see telecommuting (both part-time and full-time) potentially exploding because of high gas prices. Even in a recession (and US recessions have pretty low unemployment rates relative to the rest of the world), or perhaps especially during a recession, companies aren't going to be able to attract and retain top-notch employees based on what they can afford to pay in salaries alone.

Allowing me to work from home two days a week amounts to a 25-30% reduction in my gasoline expenses (with smaller actual dollar savings when it comes to wear/tear/maintenance on my car), and that works out to an extra $150 per month in my pocket if gas prices hit $4 a gallon.
57 posted on 04/30/2008 8:23:45 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: mysterio

“it bothers me that our country refuses to pursue energy independence. “

Me too. It bugs the crap out of me. It bugged me 20 years ago. I saw this coming for a long time.


58 posted on 04/30/2008 8:25:12 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

We are pursuing energy independence on a scale I never thought possible. It just does not make the nightly news.


59 posted on 04/30/2008 8:25:40 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: jonrick46
I'm waiting for the price to drop on a “pre-owned” SL 600.
The higher the gas price goes, the less I will pay.
It will be my “fun” car, for weekend trips.
60 posted on 04/30/2008 8:26:19 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Guns don't kill people, gun free zones kill people)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately as a homeschool mom of 7 and 11 year old boys.

I think the 11 year would make a great pastor. I also think I should teach him an overview of the Koran and politics as well a thorough review of the history of the world and computers.

The 7 year old I have not figured out yet, but keep watching for clues. However, I think what he picks up from his brother will be a great base along with a more in depth science and math curriculum.


61 posted on 04/30/2008 8:26:52 PM PDT by proudtobeanamerican1 (Media -)
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To: mplsconservative
The economic ramifications of $5 gas will be staggering. It will have a domino effect. Just look at how diesel prices are now forcing truckers to stop running routes. If products can't get to their destination (mainly food), the prices go higher and the supply goes down, etc.

The high price of gas will touching everything in our lives. Not a single person will go untouched by it.

As I said on another thread, gas above $4 will bring John Edwards 'two Americas' to life. Gas over $5, and this country will be divided into the haves and have nots. Gas over $7, God help us all. If I trusted Americans would act rational, it would be different. But Katrina proved to me that people resort to their most feral states to survive- and are willing to kill to do it.

62 posted on 04/30/2008 8:26:58 PM PDT by rintense (McCain can pound sand.)
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To: Sunnyflorida
Unfortunately, I don't think we can drill our way to energy independence. It's going to have to be something else. I'm afraid ethanol will not do, either.

I'm hoping for a biodiesel transitionary period with a final goal of nuclear and hydrogen with coal to fill the gaps.
63 posted on 04/30/2008 8:28:44 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: Jim Hill

Yeah, but wait to HillCare takes over. What will happen to the salaries then? They will all be set back to every other government job wages.


64 posted on 04/30/2008 8:29:26 PM PDT by proudtobeanamerican1 (Media -)
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To: Charles Bronson Forever

I say let’s just go take over a major country in the middle east that’s so full of oil it actually oozes out of the ground.

Ooops, been there .. done that! :(


65 posted on 04/30/2008 8:29:38 PM PDT by The Duke (I have met the enemy, and he is named 'Apathy'!)
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To: Charles Bronson Forever
I'm about to embark on a 2500 mile round-trip voyage in my heavy car. I wonder if JimRob would let me post a little gas-athon for myself before I leave.

See ya in the poorhouse!

Leni

66 posted on 04/30/2008 8:31:38 PM PDT by MinuteGal (I Love My Country More than I Dislike McCain !)
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To: rintense
The economic ramifications of $5 gas will be staggering. It will have a domino effect.

Thank you. I agree.

I would only add that $5+ prices will buy us socialism for a generation which will further damage our economy.
67 posted on 04/30/2008 8:31:47 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

It will. Look what the Great Depression did. Social liberalism was born of it.


68 posted on 04/30/2008 8:32:46 PM PDT by rintense (McCain can pound sand.)
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To: rintense

“The loses to the travel industry alone would send the economy into a depression.”

You know the old saying about getting the government we deserve. In large part, the same is true of our economy. We scream at the government, do nothing else about it, and then pay $22 per month on our $30k credit card debt.

I’m not pointing finger, and I know many Freepers are the opposite of this, but the “old days” of thrift being a virtue are long gone in this country, and who didn’t really think in the back of their mind that the current standard of living was unsustainable?

I actually worry less about people having to tighten their belts than I do about the complacency spilling over despite some dire economical circumstances, and people fail to get off their fat asses, read some basic economics (since it apparently is no longer taught in Public Screw), and vote to prevent a Rat New New Deal.


69 posted on 04/30/2008 8:36:15 PM PDT by Harrius Magnus (I am the town square.)
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To: allmost
Last year I posted about the weak dollar eventually causing the United States huge problems.

After that post several FReeper’s felt it necessary to slow roast my chestnuts in an open fire.

Would all those chestnut roaster's please come out of the closet so they can see the light of day and learn just how much the weak dollar is killing middle income and those below already stressed budgets.

Despite what Nancy would have you believe folks, her advice is nuttier and more moldy than a nine year old Christmas fruit cake.

On this business of not drilling in Anwar.

I have been to Anwar back in the 70’s and it is a desolate expanse.

Two thousand acres might seem like a lot to the liberal New York City Slicker Environmentalist but in Alaska two thousand acres is not pimple on an elephants butt.

For those of you who believe like the soap opera Dallas that JR could drill a well and immediately pump gasoline to your local Shell heres the skinny.

Even if we drill in Anwar it will take years to get the pumped oil from the well sight to a refinery somewhere in Canada.

First the Oil Company bronc riders have to break the caribou and train them to pack out those barrels of oil for 2,000 mile trip.

The truth is the United States has allowed the ignorance of the Al Gore and the Sierra Club wannabe liberal politicians to override common sense.

All of what were discussing now should have been done years ago.

What I do not understand knowing the current problems Ms. Nancy is why we can't start tomorrow?

70 posted on 04/30/2008 8:36:27 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: andiesmom

‘Glen Beck had someone on tonite who said that even if we could drill in Anwar, it would take 10-15 years to see the benefit here in America.”

The same argument will be made 10-15 years from now.


71 posted on 04/30/2008 8:37:01 PM PDT by Boanarges
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To: Sunnyflorida
You might not be whining but you sure have some kind of nasty problem. Otherwise. you would not be criticizing people, that are trying to feed their families while having to pay a $1.00+ extra for gas to get to work, doctor, school, etc.

I don't like the price of gas but it isn't hurting me as much as most. I'm retired and don't have to drive to work everyday. Try working for awhile $8 to $10 an hour like some folks have to do and then tell hour cheap gasoline is and how well off they are.

Do I like slackers and complainers? H...no I don't! But I am not going to criticize people who have no control over what jobs are in a particular area and the wages they receive.

Can your rich corporation give all the people working at low paying jobs employment? Don't make me laugh. Your corporation nor any other one can. Those folks work hard to produce things that add to the national wealth. You know, things like all the paper your corporation uses...all the unnecessary forms that folks, working for low wages, have to fill out before they can see a doctor.

I'm not critical of your own success, as I have have some success in my life too, but you really need to back off of people who have not been so fortunate.

72 posted on 04/30/2008 8:37:08 PM PDT by jerry639
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To: pctech

Amen brother, amen


73 posted on 04/30/2008 8:37:58 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: mplsconservative

Nevertheless, the psychological benefit of a renewed commitment to domestic supplies would be felt right away in the market >>> price.


74 posted on 04/30/2008 8:38:30 PM PDT by Harrius Magnus (I am the town square.)
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To: OKIEDOC

What are your thoughts on shale(oil)?


75 posted on 04/30/2008 8:41:26 PM PDT by allmost
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To: Sunnyflorida
I like when there are auto workers in Michigan complaining about no auto jobs! MOVE. Get and education. Start a side business.

Comment:

Please cut the snotty Obama elitists crap.

We know your just common trailer trash trying to impress everyone on FR with your keyboard riches....LOL.........

People like you are the reason most people spell it FLORIDUH.....

76 posted on 04/30/2008 8:48:02 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: Sunnyflorida

People like you with your high-nose attitude are the reason Rats despise Republicans. Thanks for maintaining the stereotype.

Take your snotty attitude back to the 19th at Boca Raton.

Try your attitude against the golf pros there trying to feed a family on 50K/yr.


77 posted on 04/30/2008 8:49:15 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: OKIEDOC

Are we separated at birth or what? Posts within one minute....


78 posted on 04/30/2008 8:51:27 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: Sunnyflorida
And I would fine a new occupation, I’m serious. Not instant but instead of spending time posting on FReeper study. I don’t know insurance or accounting. I know people that became CPAs at 60. Working two jobs and raising a family.

My husband and I both have four-year degrees. I'm a full-time mom after a 20 year career, raising our son and we both help take care of elderly parents with health concerns. My husband does very well as white collar professional, but between rising taxes (property especially, geesh!), food and fuel costs, we've really cut back on our discretionary spending. Not to mention saving for college and paying for braces, I don't know where we'd find the funds for additional education for ourselves. We did the math, and if I worked full-time outside of the home, it wouldn't be worth it.

This is the land of opportunity and if all you can afford is cheap food and fuel it is hardly anybody’s fault but you own.

I see you live in Florida. Would you like to see our energy bill this winter in Minnesota? We have a very nice home and two paid for cars. We handle our mortgage and bills nicely, but with food and fuel costs and the above afformentioned expenses, we watch our pennies.

Still people need to take responsibility for their own life and gas is cheap compared to almost anything that does what gas does. It should be cheaper but it is still a bargain.

We are people that have taken responsibility for our own lives. We are getting taxed to death. I feel this even more intensely than others because I live in Minnesota, I guess. My husband's not about to leave his long career here for greener pastures. Even if he did find something elsewhere, good luck selling your house.

I bet half the people complaining about fuel have been wasting money on cigarettes, lottery tickets, and other crap most of their life. If you put this in XOM stock you would be singing.

Gardening is our main vice. We're putting in a large vegetable crop this year. Seems like the smart thing to do.

79 posted on 04/30/2008 8:55:30 PM PDT by mplsconservative
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To: puppypusher

There are several implications with $5 a gallon. Figure about $4600 at $5 a gallon in costs, for one car.

This basically means that most of the folks who make $35k a year...are giving up $1800 out of their pocket and cannot make the money back, when they look back at $3 a gallon. They can also figure that their weekly $150 grocery bill, will slide up another $20 to cover gas costs to the grocery, the farmers, and general increase.

Then you can start to figure that the guy is going to cut back on driving. He will plan things enough that there aren’t any wasteful miles on Saturday or Sunday driving. The ten nights a year he would normally go bowling....will be cut back to six nights. The chance to take the family out every two weeks for a dinner.....will go to once a month, as he pays more for gas and simply quits buying meals out.

The wife? Well....she starts to time trips out, with doctor visits and shopping combined. The quick trip to the local grocery she made three times a week.....now goes to once a week only. She’ll pick up a neighbor on occasion and the two will shop together....rather than burn gas.

The trip by the family to visit relatives every June for eight days? Well....it gets canceled this year. And likely won’t occur next year. The tickets for the flight to Grandma’s around Thanksgiving? They went up twenty percent over last year’s and its mostly fuel costs added. The repainting of the garage this year? Won’t happen, you don’t have the extra cash to pay for the job.

So as you start the dominoes falling.....now we have a restaurant trend where everyone is eating ten percent less out because of no desire to use extra gas and no real extra cash left. The airline, hotel, car rental and touristic businesses suffer because folks won’t travel as much. The grocery business starts to see trendy food dumped and bulk items bought more often. Bowling alleys and theaters start to notice a ten percent drop in clients. Movies that were geared toward younger audiences (16 to 18).....suddenly notice that their clients don’t have the gas money to go and if they do go....they are very picky about what movie they see or don’t see......so fewer movies start to get made.

So at $5 a gallon....this is’t a simple game anymore. Folks will start to make a decision and think about how to waste or not waste $1800 in a year. But those with two cars in the family? Or how about three cars (one for junior).....can the typical middle-class family survive paying $9k a year on fuel? The answer is no.

The amazing thing here....even we all cut ten percent of our fuel usage out....the pricing trend won’t likely stop....and will continue (thanks to the Chinese and the Indians going out to buy their first ever car). So our entire future, now depends on a hydrogen fuel cell car and its development...which might be still twenty years away....when fuel cost $22 a gallon.

So settle back and watch for the warning signs, when hotel chains start complaining about empty rooms, airlines start cutting flights which they can’t fill to maximum capacity, theaters who can’t fill more than half of the place on a Friday night, movie producers who can’t make the standard cut on teenage films, and car dealers stuck with SUVs which won’t sell off the used lot.

The first hit will be the bottom of the barrel folks....who make $7 an hour at Wal-Mart. Then later the $35k a year folks. And by next year...even the folks who make $60k a year will start to complain. The next president will walk into a miserable period where the economy is stalled badly and will spend most of his or her four years trying to figure the magic formula.


80 posted on 04/30/2008 8:57:53 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: allmost
The country is rich in oil shale but hasn't developed the technology to make it work.

I would suggest building a mini nuclear plant to generate the power necessary process the shale.

Same with the Tar Sands in Canada, I was up there about 15 years ago and thought something was about to break.

81 posted on 04/30/2008 9:01:38 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: mysterio

There is plenty of oil, natural gas, coal and nukes to allow us to be a net exporter.


82 posted on 04/30/2008 9:06:18 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: txflake
txflake wrote:
Are we separated at birth or what? Posts within one minute....

Comment

Naw, we just don't like phony keyboard warriors with crappy attitudes.

Where I live the majority of the population is illegals who can not read or write English.

I am telling all of those I can reach about how great Floriduh is and how those people like SunnyFloriduh are welcoming them with open arms and better high paying jobs.

83 posted on 04/30/2008 9:08:40 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: jerry639

” people who have no control over what jobs are in a particular area and the wages they receive.”

Everybody makes choices. It is not luck. You have to make your own luck. This is the land of opportunity.


84 posted on 04/30/2008 9:09:25 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: OKIEDOC

I thought heat and sunlight made it work. ;) Lots of that where the deposits are.


85 posted on 04/30/2008 9:09:58 PM PDT by allmost
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To: Sunnyflorida
I disagree on the oil reserves angle. Remember, we consume 20 million barrels a day.

We have a 200 year coal reserve at current consumption. Nuclear and NG, I'm not sure.
86 posted on 04/30/2008 9:11:29 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: OKIEDOC

“We know your just common trailer trash trying to impress everyone on FR with your keyboard riches....LOL.........:

What ever. But I’m not complaining either. I continue to work hard for what I have. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see this coming and it is not that hard to plan and save.


87 posted on 04/30/2008 9:12:21 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: rintense
I had an inkling of things to come awhile back after 9/11.

We lived in inner-city Minneapolis at the time and I got actively involved in protesting the Code Pinkers. People who I just dismissed as stoned hippies before were revealed as vile win at no cost socialists. I saw the ugly side and convinced my husband to get the h*ll out.

We moved out to a small town 35 miles away from the core city. My husband's commute is about ten miles longer each way, which is costing us, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

The way things are going with fuel and food there's no way I'd want to live in the inner-city.

On a side note, great pics on your homepage. I keep saying one day, I'm going to get the training for a conceal and carry license. Is your dog a Belgian Sheepdog?

88 posted on 04/30/2008 9:15:57 PM PDT by mplsconservative
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To: Sunnyflorida
Well on those terms I whole heartedly agree with your reasoning about the oil disaster that has been coming down the tracts for the last 20 years.
89 posted on 04/30/2008 9:16:16 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: allmost
Nuclear could deliver lots of heat for the processing.
90 posted on 04/30/2008 9:18:28 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: tanknetter

“Allowing me to work from home two days a week amounts to a 25-30% reduction in my gasoline expenses....”

Of course. The only downside for those that telecommute is that they will be the first to be let go when times get bad. If the boss doesn’t see you...you’re out of site...out of mind...out of a job.


91 posted on 04/30/2008 9:18:51 PM PDT by He'sComingBack!
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To: mplsconservative

“Would you like to see our energy bill this winter in Minnesota?:

I would not live in Minnesota. Visited it a few times. Too cold and dreary. I like the sun.

I always watch the pennies. Learn economics and investing on my own. Hedged against this “crisis”. Keep studying. Independent since 14. Always paid my own way. Never borrow or lend. I do not expect the government to bail me out.

I hate paying taxes but i saw that going up after the boom. Property went up, tax rates stayed the same. Local government never ran a surplus now they are screwed.

I know a lot of people down here that smoke, drink, fish after work and complain about being broke. We work after work. I have a few businesses. Work seven days. Do not get a pay check form anyone. Get paid by the job. My spouse same way. We work.

I really resent the fact we are not as a nation energy independent because it is so easy for us to do. But we have nobody to blame but ourselves.


92 posted on 04/30/2008 9:21:27 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: txflake

“Try your attitude against the golf pros there trying to feed a family on 50K/yr.’

LOL

Played golf maybe 6 times back in the 90s. Waste of time. I do not fell bad for a person paid 50k/year to play golf!!!


93 posted on 04/30/2008 9:23:11 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: OKIEDOC

My thoughts exactly.


94 posted on 04/30/2008 9:24:59 PM PDT by allmost
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To: pctech

The high price of gas is killing the commuter real estate market. Outlying areas in my neck of the woods are not selling well as people who used to think about moving out into more rural areas stop when they consider spending $300-400/mo just to drive to work.


95 posted on 04/30/2008 9:25:47 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Carbon is the fifth most abundant element on the planet.)
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To: mysterio

One little gas deposit called the destin dome is conservatively 3tcuft or so. The North Dakota finds are huge.

There is oil everywhere.

Bakken Reserve: Estimates are anywhere from a conservative 25 billion barrels of oil in place, to a high estimate by the United States Geological Survey of 400 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken formation. Not only is the oil plentiful, but it’s high quality too, 41 degree light sweet crude. The Bakken formation is a formation of black shale, siltstone, and sandstone. The formation lies beneath the Mississippian formation, Saskatchewan’s current source of light sweet crude. The Bakken formation is situated beneath southeastern Saskatchewan, southwestern Manitoba, and North Dakota.


96 posted on 04/30/2008 9:29:25 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Sunnyflorida

I have heard much lower recoverable numbers from the Bakken. Either way, we will find out. With energy prices at a premium, anything recoverable will be harvested.


97 posted on 04/30/2008 9:32:04 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

You also know that to get prices down you do not have to duplicate the supply just increase it to the marginal demand level. Bakken is enough to send oil way back down. We do need to refine it also right now we import gasoline. It is completely nuts.

And Bakken is just part of it. There are massive deposits in the Everglades. Everybody says, “oh no we will destroy it.” But they are nuts it only takes a relatively few platforms in small areas to get at it and the glades are huge. There is a giant unused airport out there and some drilling already. But given the vastness few know it. Look on google earth.


98 posted on 04/30/2008 9:33:59 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: Rebelbase

“The high price of gas is killing the commuter real estate market. “

People moved out there in the last 5-10 years did not see this coming. How could that be. We are in, thank g-d, a global economic expansion and oil and gas are the most efficient power sources and the United States sits on massive deposits and we do not use them.

This had to happen.


99 posted on 04/30/2008 9:38:19 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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To: mysterio

“With energy prices at a premium, anything recoverable will be harvested.”

For you mouth to g-d’s ears. Did you hear Kay Baily on Rush’s show today. The first common sense I heard from a politician on this in well, forever.

This is what bugs me about Bush. They get this laid right on their laps and nothing. He should do some executive order or something to build a refinery and shut down ethanol and let the dems bitch.


100 posted on 04/30/2008 9:41:00 PM PDT by Sunnyflorida (Drill in the Gulf of Mexico/Anwar & we can join OPEC!!! || Write in Thomas Sowell for President.)
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