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Surge in U.S. Hispanic Population Driven by Births, Not Immigration
WSJ ^ | 05/01/2008 | CONOR DOUGHERTY and MIRIAM JORDAN

Posted on 05/01/2008 6:06:22 AM PDT by devane617

Hispanics now account for more than 15% of the U.S. population, and their surge is largely the result of births among people already in the country, according to new Census Bureau data.

In an annual report, the Census said there are 45.5 million Hispanics in the U.S., up from 35.7 million in 2000, when they made up 12.6% of the population. It said growth among Hispanics was responsible for half of the U.S. population gains between 2000 and 2007.

WSJ's Conor Dougherty discusses the rising Hispanic/Latino population among the findings from the latest Census data. In the 1990s, a flood of Hispanic immigrants explained most of the group's population rise. That has changed in recent years. Between 2006 and 2007, about 62% of the increase in Hispanics came from births.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; americaalone; demography; immigrantlist; immigration
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This is from today's WallStreetJournal...I don't know if the article is available for the public...
1 posted on 05/01/2008 6:06:23 AM PDT by devane617
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To: devane617

I like immigrants. We should make it easier for the well-behaved ones to register as such, to be documented, and to eventually become citizens if that is their choice. By documenting the vast majority of agreeable immigrants we would make it far easier to identify the disagreeable ones.


2 posted on 05/01/2008 6:08:44 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: devane617
Well, I have to guess that they are not coming here to abort their babies and completely destroy their own culture and race.

Unlike the dying breed.

3 posted on 05/01/2008 6:11:44 AM PDT by bill1952 (I will vote for McCain if he resigns his Senate seat before this election.)
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To: babble-on

I disagree. Send them home, including anchor babies.


4 posted on 05/01/2008 6:12:41 AM PDT by devane617 (My Kharma Ran Over Your Dogma)
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To: devane617

Surge in U.S. Hispanic Population Driven by Births, Not Immigration

Yeah, well this is just Phase 2 of any good invasion plan.

5 posted on 05/01/2008 6:14:03 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (The secret of Life is letting go. The secret of Love is letting it show.)
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To: devane617
It really is old news.

Surge in birth rate among unwed Hispanics creating new U.S. underclass

Unless the life chances of children raised by single mothers suddenly improve, the explosive growth of the U.S. Hispanic population over the next couple of decades does not bode well for American social stability.

The dimensions of the Hispanic baby boom are startling. The Hispanic birthrate is twice as high as that of the rest of the American population. That high fertility rate – even more than unbounded levels of immigration – will fuel the rapid Hispanic population boom in the coming decades.

By 2050, the Latino population will have tripled, the Census Bureau projects. One in four Americans will be Hispanic by midcentury, twice the current ratio.

It's the fertility surge among unwed Hispanics that should worry policymakers. Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country – over three times that of whites and Asians, and nearly 1 ½ times that of black women, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Every 1,000 unmarried Hispanic women bore 92 children in 2003 (the latest year for which data exist), compared with 28 children for unmarried white women, 22 for unmarried Asian women, and 66 for unmarried black women.

Forty-five percent of all Hispanic births occur outside of marriage, compared with 24 percent for whites and 15 percent for Asians. Only the percentage for blacks – 68 percent – is higher. But the black population is not going to triple over the next few decades.

The only bright news in this demographic disaster story concerns teen births. Overall teen childbearing in the U.S. declined for the 12th year in a row in 2003, having dropped by more than a third since 1991. Yet even here, Hispanics remain a cause for concern. The rate of childbirth for teens from Mexico, part of the fastest-growing immigrant population in the U.S., greatly outstrips every other group.

6 posted on 05/01/2008 6:17:32 AM PDT by kabar
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To: devane617
Surge in U.S. Hispanic Population Driven by Births, Not Immigration

It is not Immigration that can cause the surge! It is Illegal Immigration!

7 posted on 05/01/2008 6:20:07 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: babble-on

What do you mean by disagreeable?


8 posted on 05/01/2008 6:20:10 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: babble-on
I like immigrants. We should make it easier for the well-behaved ones to register as such, to be documented, and to eventually become citizens if that is their choice.

I like LEGAL immigrants, i.e., those who obey our laws. Anyone who is unocumented should be deported. It should be the choice of the United States, not the immigrant, as to who becomes a citizen.

9 posted on 05/01/2008 6:20:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: devane617
Hmmm...

And blacks have an abortion rate at near twice the rate of whites and hispanics...

10 posted on 05/01/2008 6:20:57 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Don’t worry, they know what democracy is. They will treat you right as a minority.


11 posted on 05/01/2008 6:22:21 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: devane617
EVERY American should know the TRUE message of the May Day Protestors and this video should be broadcast east coast to west:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM&feature=related

1) Armando Navarro, Prof. Ethnic Studies, UC Riverside at Latino Summit Response to Prop 187, UC Riverside, 1/1995 "These are the critical years for us as a Latino community. We're in a state of transition. And that transformation is called 'the browning of America'. Latinos are now becoming the majority. Because I know that time and history is on the side of the Chicano/Latino community. It is changing in the future and in the present the balance of power of this nation. It's a game - it's a game of power - who controls it. You (to MEChA students) are like the generals that command armies. We're in a state of war. This Proposition 187 is a declaration of war against the Latino/Chicano community of this country. They know the demographics. They know that history and time is on our side. As one community, as one people, as one nation within a nation as the community that we are, the Chicano/Latino community of this nation. What this means is a transfer of power. It means control."


2) Art Torres, former CA state senator, currently Chair of California Democrat Party at UC Riverside 1/1995 "Que viva la causa! It is an honor to be with the new leadership of the Americas, here meeting at UC Riverside. So with 187 on the ballot, what is it going to take for our people to vote - to see us walking into the gas ovens? It is electoral power that is going to make the determination of where we go as a community. And power is not given to you -- you have to take it. Remember: 187 is the last gasp of white America in California. Understand that. And people say to me on the Senate floor when I was in the Senate, 'Why do you fight so hard for affirmative action programs?' And I tell my white colleagues, 'because you're going to need them.'"


3) Jose Angel Gutierrez, Prof. Univ. Texas at Arlington, founder La Raza Unida Party at UC Riverside 1/1995 "The border remains a military zone. We remain a hunted people. Now you think you have a destiny to fulfill in the land that historically has been ours for forty thousand years. And we're a new Mestizo nation. And they want us to discuss civil rights. Civil rights. What law made by white men to oppress all of us of color, female and male. This is our homeland. We cannot - we will not- and we must not be made illegal in our own homeland. We are not immigrants that came from another country to another country. We are migrants, free to travel the length and breadth of the Americas because we belong here. We are millions. We just have to survive. We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. It's a matter of time. The explosion is in our population."


4) Bill Richardson, New Mexico Governor, former U.S. Congressman, U.N. Ambassador, U.S. Sect'y of Energy interviewed on radio Latino USA responding to Congressional Immigration Reform legislation in 1996 "There are changing political times where our basic foundations and programs are being attacked, illegal and legal immigration are being unfairly attacked. We have to band together, and that means Latinos in Florida, Cuban-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, South Americans, we have to network better - we have to be more politically minded, we have to put aside party and think of ourselves as Latinos, as Hispanics more than we have in the past."

5) Mario Obledo, founding member/former nat'l director of Mexican-American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF), former CA Sect'y Health/Welfare on Tom Leykis radio talk show "We're going to take over all the political institutions in California. In five years the Hispanics are going to be the majority population of this state." Caller: "You also made the statement that California is going to become a Hispanic state and if anyone doesn't like it they should leave - did you say that?" Obledo: "I did. They ought to go back to Europe."


6) CCIR commentary on Mario Obledo When CCIR, the California Coalition for Immigration Reform, erected a billboard on the California/Arizona border reading, "WELCOME TO CALIFORNIA, THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION STATE", Mario Obledo, infuriated, went to the billboard location and threatened to blow it up or burn it down. Even after this threat to deny American citizens their freedom of speech, President Clinton awarded Obledo the Presidential Medal of Freedom, America's highest civilian honor. CCIR question to Obledo: "Jose Angel Gutierrez said, 'We have an aging white America, they are dying, I love it.' How would you translate that statement?" Obledo: "He's a good friend of mine. A very smart person."


7) Richard Alatorre, former Los Angeles City Councilman at Latino Summit conference in Los Angeles opposing CA Prop. 209 ending affirmative action in 9/1996 "Because our numbers are growing, they're afraid about this great mass of minorities that now live in our community. They're afraid that we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They are right, we will take them over, and we are not going to go away - we are here to stay, and we are saying 'ya basta' (enough!) and we are going to turn... and de... not elect or re-elect people that believe that they are going to advance their political careers on the backs of immigrants and the backs of minorities."


8) Joe Baca, former CA Assemblymember, currently member of Congress at Latino Summit Response to Prop 187 UC Riverside 1/1995 and Southwest Voter Registration Project annual conference in Los Angeles, 6/1996 "We need more Latinos out there. We must stand up and be counted. We must be together, We must be united. Because if we're not united you know what's going to happen? We're like sticks - we're broken to pieces. Divided we're not together. But as a unit they can't break us. So we've got to come together, and if we're united, si se puede (it can be done) and we will make the changes that are necessary. But we've got to do it. We've got to stand together, and dammit, don't let them divide us because that's what they want to do, is to divide us. And once we're divided we're conquered. But when we look out at the audience and we see, you know, la familia, La Raza (the family, our race), you know, it's a great feeling, isn't it a good feeling? And you know, I started to think about that and it reminded me of a book that we all read and we all heard about, you know, Paul Revere, and when he was saying, 'The British are coming, the British are coming!' Well, the Latinos are coming, the Latinos are coming! And the Latinos are going to vote. So our voices will be heard. So that's what this agenda is about. It's about insuring that we increase our numbers. That we increase our numbers at every level. We talk about the Congressional, we talk about the Senate, we talk about board of supervisors, board of education, city councils, commissions, we have got to increase out numbers because the Latinos are coming. Because what's going on right now, with 187, the CCRI (CA Civil Rights Initiative against affirmative action), and let me tell you, we can't go back, you know, we're in a civil war. But we need to be solidified, we need to come together, we must be strong, because united we form a strong body. United we become solidified, united we make a difference, united we make the changes, united Latinos will win throughout California, let's stick together, que si se puede, que no? (it can be done, right?)


9) Antonio Villaraigosa, Chair of MEChA (student wing of Aztlan movement) at UCLA, former CA assemblymember, former CA Assembly speaker, currently Los Angeles City Councilman at Southwest Voter Registration Project Conference in Los Angeles, 6/1997 "Part of today's reality has been propositions like 187 (to deny public benefits to illegal aliens, 1994), propositions like 209 (to abolish affirmative action, 1996), the welfare reform bill, which targeted legal immigrants and targeted us as a community. That's been the midnight. We know that the sunny side of midnight has been the election of a Latino speaker - was the election of Loretta Sanchez, against an arch-conservative, reactionary hate-mongering politician like Congressman Dornan! Today in California in the legislature, we're engaged in a great debate, where not only were we talking about denying education to the children of undocumented workers, but now we're talking about whether or not we should provide prenatal care to undocumented mothers. It's not enough to elect Latino leadership. If they're supporting legislation that denies the undocumented driver's licenses, they don't belong in office, friends. They don't belong here. If they can't stand up and say, 'You know what? I'm not ever going to support a policy that denies prenatal care to the children of undocumented mothers', they don't belong here."


10) Gloria Molina, one of the five in Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors at Southwest Voter Registration Project Conference, 6/1996 "This community is no longer going to stand for it. Because tonight we are organizing across this country in a single mission, in a plan. We are going to organize like we've never organized before. We are going to go into our neighborhoods. We are going to register voters. We are going to talk to all of those young people that need to become registered voters and go out to vote and we're are politicizing every single one of those new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country. And what we are saying is by November we will have one million additional Latino voters in this country, and we're gonna march, and our vote is going to be important. But I gotta tell you, there's a lot of people that are saying, 'I'm gonna go out there and vote because I want to pay them back!' And this November we are going to remember those that stood with us and we are also going to remember those that have stood against us on the issues of immigration, on the issues of education, on the issues of health care, on the issues of the minimum wage."


11) Vicky Castro, former member of Los Angeles Board of Education at Southwest Voter Registration Project Conference, 6/1996 "Que viva la raza, que viva la raza (long live our race)! I'm here to welcome all the new voters of 18 years old that we're registering now in our schools. Welcome, you're going to make a difference for Los Angeles, for San Antonio, for New York, and I thank Southwest for taking that challenge. And to the Mechistas (MEChA students) across this nation, you're going to make that difference for us, too. But when we register one more million voters I will not be the only Latina on the Board of Education of Los Angeles. And let me tell you here, no one will dismantle bilingual education in the United States of America. No one will deny an education to any child, especially Latino children. As you know, in Los Angeles we make up 70% of this school district. Of 600,000 -- 400,000 are Latinos, and our parents are not heard and they're going to be heard because in Los Angeles, San Antonio and Texas we have just classified 53,000 new citizens in one year that are going to be felt in November!"


12) Ruben Zacarias, former superintendent of Los Angeles Unified School District at Southwest Voter Registration Project Conference, 6/1997 "We have 27 centers now throughout LAUSD. Every one of them has trained people, clerks to take the fingerprints. Each one has the camera, that special camera. We have the application forms. And I'll tell you what we've done with I.N.S. Now we're even doing the testing that usually people had to go to INS to take, and pretty soon, hopefully, we'll do the final interviews in our schools. Incidentally, I started this very quietly because there are those that if they knew that we were creating a whole new cadre of brand new citizens it would have tremendous political impact. We will change the political panorama not only of L.A., but L.A. County and the State. And we do that we've changed the panorama of the nation. I'm proud to stand here and tell you that in those close to three years we have processed a little over 78,000 brand new citizens. That is the largest citizenship program in the entire nation."


13) Ernesto Zedillo, former president of Mexico announcing the Mexican constitutional amendment allowing for dual citizenship on 6/23/97 "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican national extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders, and that Mexican migrants are an important - a very important part of it. For that reason my government proposed a constitutional amendment to allow any Mexican with the right as he desires to acquire another nationality to do so without being forced to first give up his or her Mexican nationality. fortunately, the amendment was passed almost unanimously by our federal Congress and is now part of our constitution. I am also here today to tell you that we want you to take pride in what each and every one of your Mexican brothers and sisters are doing back home.


14) Augustin Cebada, Information Minister of Brown Berets, militant para-military soldiers of Aztlan shouting at U.S. citizens at an Independence Day rally in Los Angeles, 7/4/96 "Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets, we're here today to show L.A., show the minority people here, the Anglo-Saxons, that we are here, the majority, we're here to stay. We do the work in this city, we take care of the spoiled brat children, we clean their offices, we pick the food, we do the manufacturing in the factories of L.A., we are the majority here and we are not going to be pushed around. We're here in Westwood, this is the fourth time we've been here in the last two months, to show white Anglo-Saxon Protestant L.A., the few of you who remain, that we are the majority, and we claim this land as ours, sit's always been ours, and we're still here, and none of the talk about deporting. If anyone's going to be deported it's going to be you! Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Woodland Hills! Go back to Boston! To back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You're old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you, leave like beaten rats. You old white people, it is your duty to die. Even their own ethicists say that they should die, that they have a duty to die. They're taking up too much space, too much air. We are the majority in L.A. There's over seven million Mexicans in L.A. County alone. We are the majority. And you're going to see every day more and more of it, as we manifest as our young people grow up, graduate from high school, go on to college and start taking over this society. The vast majority of our people are under the age of 15 years old. Right now we're already controlling those elections, whether it's by violence or nonviolence. Through love of having children we're going to take over." Other demonstrators: "Raza fuerza (brown race power), this is Aztlan, this is Mexico. They're the pilgrims on our land. Go back to the Nina, the Pinta, the Santa Maria."


15) Fabian Nunez, formerly Alliance for Immigrant Rights, political liaison for L.A. School District, currently Speaker of the CA Assembly at Latino Summit Response to Prop 187 at UC Riverside, 1/1995 "There's only two forms of power in this country and in this world. One is economic power, We certainly don't have the economic power because we don't own the means of production, but there's another form of power, and that's the power of the masses. So you can be as revolutionary as you want, you can be Chicano nationalist, you can be Mexican-American, you can be Hispanic, you can believe in the concept of Aztlan, you can believe in the concept of multi-culturalism. Somebody can say 'Everybody here is wrong, I am the only one that has reached revolutionary completeness'. But the bottom line is that if we do not mobilize our community we are not putting together a setting - the parameters to establish a massive movement in our community. That's what this is about. And that's why I am here today - to talk about who here wants to organize the masses, and who here is interested in developing that movement that somebody earlier said that the sleeping giant is in a coma. I'll tell you that on October 16 ("Grande Marcha" against Prop. 187) 150,000 representatives from the sleeping giant were not in a coma but rather were marching down the streets of Los Angeles saying that enough is enough and we're no longer going to tolerate the racism against our community. The very essence of the dignity of our community is in danger right now. Luckily, we don't have to give our lives. We're not at that point, but we can give a little. What I would like to ask everybody here to give is not necessarily your life, but to give one moment of thought to what the importance of a national march on Washington DC in 1996 would mean for the mass movement of our community. Get ten people, ten people ready to go with us to that march to Washington DC in '96, and I guarantee you, just as we mobilized 150 (sic) people into the streets of Los Angeles on October 16, we can mobilize one million people and bring Washington to a standstill, and those rednecks that are out there making decisions for the betterment of their communities will think twice before they push forward anti-immigrant legislation against our community. And so that we can show our people that the time has come for us to come together on what brings us together instead of to sit down and bump heads. And I tell the students in the colleges, if you're still debating the question of whether they're Chicanos or Mexicanos, or Chicano/Mexicano, we're not learning from the lessons of ten, fifteen years ago. The time has come for unity - there's too many things that separate people, but we have to begin to look at what brings us together. And so I ask everybody here, how many of you agree if we can leave here with one thing today, that in 1996 we are going to Washington DC on a mass mobilization there to bring Washington to a standstill so that they know that we're there and that we begin to put into place those things that are necessary to insure that we advance the interests of our community. Raise your hands, those of you that agree with what I'm saying."


16) Larry Elder, L.A. radio talk show host reads a letter from one of his listeners: "Dear Larry, I spent ten years as a cruise hostess working at sea on cruise ships all over the world, so many of my assignments were to the Mexican Riviera, going back to the destination over and over again working friendships with many of the local people working along side of us in the Mexican tourist industry. Larry, the one phrase I heard a hundred times or more was, 'When the revolution is over.' When I asked for information, always the same answer, 'When they have California back.' Young or old, it seems they grew up being taught there would be a revolution some day. Somehow they would have California back."


17) Tom Tancredo, U.S. Congressman from Colorado,, speaking on CSPAN, 6/27/2001 "In the June 21 issue of Time Magazine, the lead story of which is titled, "AMEXICA". It describes the de facto elimination of the border between Mexico and the United States. I believe that the debate revolving around our immigration policy should reflect the fact that this phenomenon is underway. President Fox (of Mexico) yesterday stated that he came to the United States to "play a more active role in establishing the new international architecture". I believe that this new "international architecture" can be described as AMEXICA.


18) Gray Davis, former governor of California, recalled by the voters 10/2003 speaking to a Latino audience in 1999 "In the near future, people will look at California and Mexico as one magnificent region."


19) MEChA (student wing of the Aztlan movement - motto: "For the race, everything, for those outside the race, nothing.") chants at national conference, Cal State Univ., Northridge, 6/1996 "Viva la raza (long live our race)", "Chicano power" "We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us" "Long live the revolution" "Esta es mi tierra, esta es mi lucha (This is my land, this is my fight)"

12 posted on 05/01/2008 6:26:59 AM PDT by Kimberly GG (Don't blame me.....I support DUNCAN HUNTER.)
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To: devane617
It is not the ones that are sneaking over here illegally. It is the children they are having once they get here. We need to change the anchor baby law now. That law is encouraging this baby boom.

Imagine if:

1. Being born on US soil did not guarantee automatic citizenship.

And

2. The more children/dependendents an immigrant had decreased his or her chances of becoming a citizen.

This baby boom would stop overnight, (or in 9 months, anyway).

13 posted on 05/01/2008 6:27:00 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: Kimberly GG

bttt


14 posted on 05/01/2008 6:28:53 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: SQUID
They will treat you right as a minority.

That's alright. I/we have been a minority before.

As I recall, it didn't turn out so well for the majority.

15 posted on 05/01/2008 6:37:39 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (The secret of Life is letting go. The secret of Love is letting it show.)
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To: devane617

My niece is an OB/GYN who took her pre-med at HAAAAVVAAAAADDD! Needless to say, she emerged from that experience a FLAMING, BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL.

Upon completing her medical training at yet another liberal university, she interned at a hospital near the border in San Diego.

It was there that a mystical transformation took place: She began to connect the heavy deductions from the GROSS EARNINGS for which she busted her butt for as many as 72 virtually sleepless hours in a row with the taxis and jalopies regularly sliding to the curb in front of the ER.

Many of them contained pregnant illegals who won the race to deliver their babies HERE. She caught many of those “anchor babies” who, under the current — and ERRONEOUS — interpretation of the 14th Amendment were IMMEDIATELY NEW AMERICANS. The mother – who, obviously, could not care for the child if she were back in her native land — could not be deported now even if the INS and the political bosses WANTED her deported . And as the mother of a new US citizen, the woman could remain here for about as long as she cared to – and that was usually for life.

Most of those patients were welfare recipients and the deliveries were charity cases: The bill for the hospital’s – and HER services – were routinely spread over the bills of those who DO pay. And what the other users of those facilities don’t cover went back to the taxpayers.
And since my niece was now a taxpayer, they were costing HER.

And while she may not exactly be a libertarian, today she’s now a LOOONNNNG way from Haaaavaaaaaad.

And just so the bleeders who might see this don’t think me some sort of ethnocentric bigot, I submit this problem is MORE than just about illegals.

Before my oldest daughter was born at University Hospital in Cleveland in 1967, I sat in the main lobby as welfare mother-to-be after welfare mother-to-be shuffled through the door to the maternity ER for THEIR free deliveries.

Before WE could take OUR daughter home, I had to cough up over 3 grand. And that was a great deal of dough in 1967, especially for a guy just out of the USAF.

As I wrote the check, I remembered the magazine article I’d recently read by a hospital administrator from Massachusetts who admitted that all US hospitals practiced a form of medical Marxism, spreading the costs of care for indigents over the bills of those who DO pay for care. Given the move to socialism here, it probably will never be otherwise: Not counting Byzantine complexity and confusion, government produces – and has — NOTHING unless it first takes it from some PERSON. SOMEBODY ALWAYS PAYS.

Look, I have a big enough problem paying for the 3rd and 4th generation slackers and welfare bums who were BORN here.

It’s time we stopped paying for those who were not.


16 posted on 05/01/2008 6:42:04 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: SQUID

disagreeable, i’m talking felons


17 posted on 05/01/2008 6:49:56 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: Dick Bachert
Take a look at this:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

This article details what is going on at Dallas's Parkland Hospital...

18 posted on 05/01/2008 6:52:16 AM PDT by devane617 (My Kharma Ran Over Your Dogma)
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To: devane617
In the 1990s, a flood of Hispanic immigrants explained most of the group's population rise. That has changed in recent years. Between 2006 and 2007, about 62% of the increase in Hispanics came from births.

Hmmm. Some interesting data picking. I wonder what, in the 2000-2005 period, is inconsistent with the author's hypothesis?

19 posted on 05/01/2008 6:54:55 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: kabar

I disagree on both points. If by disobeying our laws, you are referring to immigration laws, I think those should have been changed a long time ago, as they were unenforced and unenforceable. And I think as a nation we should encourage citizenship for the people who are living here.


20 posted on 05/01/2008 6:56:08 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: bill1952

Well, I have to guess that they are not coming here to abort their babies and completely destroy their own culture and race.
Unlike the dying breed.

Too bad that they don’t seem to be able to support their anchor babies on their own. Being fertile at someone elses expense is not an attribute. It is parisitical by nature.


21 posted on 05/01/2008 6:59:06 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: babble-on

I disagree on both points. If by disobeying our laws, you are referring to immigration laws, I think those should have been changed a long time ago, as they were unenforced and unenforceable. And I think as a nation we should encourage citizenship for the people who are living here.

Uneforced yes. Unenforceable huh uh. The lack of enforcement has been by design. You crack down on the employer and the illegals will go home. No work no stay. I rather imagine that you are all for opening up our border to the third world nation of Mexico and points south also. Aren’t you marching today?


22 posted on 05/01/2008 7:02:12 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: babble-on

I disagree on both points. If by disobeying our laws, you are referring to immigration laws, I think those should have been changed a long time ago, as they were unenforced and unenforceable. And I think as a nation we should encourage citizenship for the people who are living here.

Uneforced yes. Unenforceable huh uh. The lack of enforcement has been by design. You crack down on the employer and the illegals will go home. No work no stay. I rather imagine that you are all for opening up our border to the third world nation of Mexico and points south also. Aren’t you marching today?


23 posted on 05/01/2008 7:03:49 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: Sterco
Being fertile at someone elses expense is not an attribute. It is parisitical by nature.

Agreed.

But, such parasites are survivors, and they are enabled by ... us.
They will be the ones that survive here.
We will die off and the values and achievements of Western Civilization will be dust in the wind.


24 posted on 05/01/2008 7:04:25 AM PDT by bill1952 (I will vote for McCain if he resigns his Senate seat before this election.)
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To: Sterco

Yes, I don’t really care who comes here from an ethnic standpoint, I just want us to know who they are. I want them to be fingerprinted, documented, taxed etc. I think a conservative base of Christians with strong family structures a strong work ethic and the initiative to get out of a socialist country, should fit in well here.


25 posted on 05/01/2008 7:10:03 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: babble-on
If by disobeying our laws, you are referring to immigration laws, I think those should have been changed a long time ago, as they were unenforced and unenforceable.

Sorry, but you don't get to choose what laws to obey and not obey. I disagree with your basic premise. The laws are not unenforceable, and in fact they are being enforced in a half-hearted way. We are a sovereign nation, which has defineable and enforceable borders. No country in the world allows people to enter their country without permission, i.e., legally. How would you change the laws?

And I think as a nation we should encourage citizenship for the people who are living here..

Only if they are in this country legally. We do have a system that allows Legal Permanent Residents, i.e., those with green cards, to apply for and receive citizenship. If you subscribe to the idea that anyone who gets into this country, even illegally, should be allowed to stay and become citizens, then there will be billions who will see that signal and try to get here.

I hope you understand that if you legalize the status of illegals already here, they can in turn sponsor tens of millions more LEGAL immigrants thru chain migration, i.e., family reunification. Even if you assume that there are only 12 million illegals here now, that would result in an additional 66 MILLION LEGAL IMMIGRANTS per the Heritage Foundation estimate made by Robert Rector. We can't absorb those kinds of numbers.

26 posted on 05/01/2008 7:24:37 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

Well said, kabar!

The entire premise is incorrect because it operates on the false notion that there are only 12 million illegals in the U.S. (CENSUS, Pew)...when in fact, the actual number in 40 million or more. 5,000 to 10,000 illegals break into the U.S. every day, and they aren’t going back...at least, not until all states crack down on illegals and employers.


27 posted on 05/01/2008 7:29:32 AM PDT by levotb
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To: kabar

Change the laws by making it possible to come here in compliance with them. As it stands a British PhD or Swedish fashion model needs to go through unbelievable hoops to get a legal work permit here. For a lawnmower from Chiapas who doesn’t have a paid staff to go wait in those lines for him, that’s impossible. But the vast majority would be happy to register and be here legally, however faced with the choice between breaking an unenforced law, or not feeding their family, they go with breaking the unenforced law.


28 posted on 05/01/2008 7:52:19 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: bill1952

The birth “replacement rate” is 2.1 children per family.

We’re barely sustaining that even INCLUDING ILLEGALS.

Without the illegals, we’re at about 1.8.

Why does our culture despise children so much? Pure narcissistic selfishness.


29 posted on 05/01/2008 7:54:45 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: babble-on
"I like immigrants. We should make it easier for the well-behaved ones to register as such, to be documented, and to eventually become citizens if that is their choice."

Not only no, but HELL NO! If absolulutely pushed to the limit, I can agree to the first two (registration and documentation), but NEVER to the third. Citizenship MUST be reseved to those who entered this country legally. The absolute maximum "amnesty" I am willing to settle for is permanent legal residendy with NO path to citizenship.

30 posted on 05/01/2008 8:25:23 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: babble-on
Change the laws by making it possible to come here in compliance with them. As it stands a British PhD or Swedish fashion model needs to go through unbelievable hoops to get a legal work permit here.

I agree we should have a merit based immigration system, however, work permits are not part of the permanent immigration system. Work permit visas are handled under the non-immigrant visa system. We have work and other visas, e.g., tourist/business visas [B-2 and B-1], visas for Australians [E-3], student visas [F-1], work visas [H1B, H-2B, TN Nafta work visa, Nurse visa, L-1 intracompany work visa, O-1 Extraordinary ability visa, P-visa Athlete/Entertainer, R-1 religious visa], and others, that bring in tens of millions of people every year, including Swedish models and British PHDs.

For a lawnmower from Chiapas who doesn’t have a paid staff to go wait in those lines for him, that’s impossible.

Do we really need to import unskilled lawn mowers into the US? According to March 2008 Bureau of Labor statistics, black unempoyment is at 9% and Hispanics 6.9%. We know from experience that guest workers don't go home. It doesn't matter if the high school drop out is from Detroit or Nogales, the social pathology is the same. These people are going to be a net drain on society. The taxpayers will have to pick up the costs.

But the vast majority would be happy to register and be here legally, however faced with the choice between breaking an unenforced law, or not feeding their family, they go with breaking the unenforced law.

The law is enforced. The Border Patrol apprehends more than a MILLION people a year between points of entry on the Southern Border and sends them back. The 500,000 to 1 million who evade apprhension each year are the ones you are talking about. Are you suggesting the we should remove the BP and allow all of these people to enter so they can feed their families? Are you saying that if you are able to evade the BP and enter illegally, you should be treated differently than those who are apprehended at the border?

What about all of those millions of people who have completed all of their paperwork and have been waiting years to enter this country? The US admits 1.2 million legal immigrants every year. Even without amnesty, our population will be almost half a billion by 2050. We have added 100 milliion people since 1970 and will add another 165 million by 2050, 105 million due to immigration. We will add 64 million to our population within the next 22 years, the approximate equivalent of the UK, with three quarters due to immigration, legal and illegal.

31 posted on 05/01/2008 8:25:51 AM PDT by kabar
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To: MrB

Why does our culture despise children so much? Pure narcissistic selfishness.

I do not object in the least bit to children. I have a couple of my own. They are supported by me and not at the expense of others. Third worlders entering our country and having children at an alarming rate do not seem to be able to raise their children except at the expense of others. The fact that we are required by a Supreme Court ruling to educate and feed these children is the equivilent of a gun at our heads to do so is hardly fair. We have enough tax burden taking care of our own without having to take care of those illegally entering our country. The fact that the game has been learned so well by those illegally entering this nation is evident in emergency rooms and delivery rooms nation wide.


32 posted on 05/01/2008 8:35:07 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: kabar
Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country – over three times that of whites and Asians, and nearly 1 ½ times that of black women, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

So much for family values.

33 posted on 05/01/2008 8:42:54 AM PDT by E. Cartman (Ronald Reagan's single biggest mistake: Picking Poppy Bush to be his veep.)
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To: Dick Bachert
The medical profession is being used as a tool by the liberals to destroy American Culture. In California the people voted and approved prop 187, which denies health care to all these illegals. The 9th Circuit court overturned this prop.

The only factories left in California are the hospitals. The hospitals are baby factories cranking out 30 - 40 Mexican babies a day. All prenatal care, operating room, NICU, follow-up care paid for by the taxpayer, including the mandatory Spanish interpreter. It is like having a US Government funded Trojan horse in every city.

With a short generational time and exponential growth many of the cities in the Central Valley have become purely Hispanic with a strong pro illegal mentality. American Culture is absent in these places.

34 posted on 05/01/2008 8:43:03 AM PDT by pterional
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To: devane617

So the thousands crossing the southern border are not increasing the Hispanic numbers in this country?

Not logical. It’s both.


35 posted on 05/01/2008 8:52:21 AM PDT by tennteacher (Sowell and Will - in the tradition of William F. Buckley)
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To: Kimberly GG

Sad thing is that the indigineous inhabitants of the American southwest had absolutely nothing to do with ethnic Mexicans living there today.

Mexico had the southwest for only 20 years, had basically no control over it, and only got it as a result of the colonial imperialism of Spain. While they talk about us white conquistadors, they are practicing their own imperialism and taking land in vigilante fashion that was never theirs in the first place.


36 posted on 05/01/2008 8:54:25 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (No prisoners. No mercy. Fight back or STFU!!!)
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To: Sterco

I’m saying US, WE, Americans - should be having MORE CHILDREN.


37 posted on 05/01/2008 9:04:34 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: devane617

Thank you Thank you....Jorge Bush!...Here’s your legacy!


38 posted on 05/01/2008 9:06:21 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: MrB

I’m saying US, WE, Americans - should be having MORE CHILDREN.

We are running out of water.
We are having difficulty with energy supplies.
Our nations infrastructure is in decline.
Perhaps we should rethink your logic.


39 posted on 05/01/2008 9:45:27 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: Free Vulcan

Sad thing is that the indigineous inhabitants of the American southwest had absolutely nothing to do with ethnic Mexicans living there today.

The Horse Comanche and the Apache held the Indians in present day Mexico to their side of the present border. They dealt very harshly with violations of their immigration law.


40 posted on 05/01/2008 9:48:01 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: bill1952
Photobucket
41 posted on 05/01/2008 9:54:31 AM PDT by Sterco
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To: pterional
As early as 12 years ago, when he was my representative, I was a regular at Newt’s Town Hall Meetings where I spoke in support of the FairTax. 70% or more of the others who took the mike were visibly ANGRY ABOUT THE FAILURE TO STOP THE GROWING FLOW OF ILLEGALS! (At several sessions, Newt suggested the 100,000 IRS agents be given weapons and sent down to the border with Mexico.) That certainly works for me.

Under Bush, that flow became a TORRENT!

He CLEARLY doesn’t care WHAT we think!

DO TRY TO GET THAT MEMORY OVER THE TRADITIONAL 20 NANOSECOND LEVEL AND HOLD THE THOUGHT THROUGH NOVEMBER ’08!

In ABSTRACT terms, this is the conspiratorial view of what’s going on vis-à-vis the INVASION of the illegals here:

The current alien invasion from the south serves BOTH the elites who run Mexico – and many of the OTHER states of Central and South America -- and the political ruling class who increasingly run the United States:

· It takes pressure off the 60 or so families who control approximately 80% of the wealth in Mexico. Without the northern “safety valve” (the United States) for their poor, those poor MIGHT be inclined to do what America’s early colonists found it necessary to do: Revolt! Parenthetically, that would be MY suggestion for them: Instead of fleeing here – and converting “here” to a larger, more poverty infested version of “there,” they ought to stay there and make “there” into their version of “here,” whatever that would be. Revolutions ARE messy and there are no guarantees that they will produce the desired result. But – according to one T. Jefferson – they are often necessary. Never forget that THIS country was born in revolution!

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson ·

· For the NAFTA/CAFTA coveting US national ruling class – especially those who, in varying degrees, quest after some sort of One-World utopia run by guess who? – it provides yet another level of insecurity and tension among the indigenous populace which can be used to justify new and more draconian limits to freedom here. Instead of securing the borders, allow millions of illegals to come in and when the natives become alarmed, require a national ID card. “Your papers, please!” will soon become a phrase familiar to all. It’s Mr. Franklin’s trade of freedom for (false) security. It’s also the time-tested Hegelian Dialectic the One-Worlders have successfully worked like a rented mule.

While they occasionally squabble among themselves, the elites of history have ALL had one thing in common: They will do ANYTHING to remain in charge. And throughout that history, except for the 230 year-old experiment in freedom called “America,” most of the men who have walked the earth have lived as slaves to these elites whether they call themselves kings, emperors, potentates, sultans, czars – or presidents.

Get ready, folks. Unless some SERIOUS changes are made and the handful of Americans who CARE about liberty get involved, that history will almost certainly repeat here.

Now for the SPECIFICS of the matter:

My take on Bush's role in all of this is:

1. His long and apparently positive experience with the large hispanic population in Texas is largely responsible for his inaction on this alien invasion. And why wouldn't HIS experience with them be positive as he traveled in the highest, best-educated circles among them, not the Hispanic gangbangers and pine-straw spreaders...

2. Boy Jorge Bush was cared for by a Hispanic nanny for many years while his daddy was running Zapata Oil (into the ground).

3. His brother Jeb is married to a native of Mexico (the daughter of a migrant worker) and his nieces and nephews are mixed blood. And before you scream "ethnocentric bigot" at me, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But that fact -- and items 1 and 2 – DO predispose him to a warm and fuzzy feeling for folks from south of the Rio Grande.

And if -- in some strange and metastasizing American desire for a new royal family dynasty -- Jeb or his son should win the White House in some future presidential beauty contest designed to divert the American electorate every four years, I'd bet that HIS activities toward this alien invasion will make W's behavior look like a warm-up exercise.

Any vestige of Western European culture -- the culture MY great-grandparents and probably yours brought here after standing in line at places like Ellis Island, being interrogated, deloused and recorded -- will be a distant memory – IF it’s remembered at all.

42 posted on 05/01/2008 9:55:10 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

ping


43 posted on 05/01/2008 1:12:03 PM PDT by gubamyster
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To: devane617


Surge in U.S. Hispanic Population Driven by Births, Not Immigration

Hispanics now account for more than 15% of the U.S. population, and their surge is largely the result of births among people already in the country, according to new Census Bureau data. “

Uh.....I think they had to immigrate here to be here to have the babies.....Kind of a chicken and egg thing...


44 posted on 05/01/2008 2:46:13 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

“Yeah, well this is just Phase 2 of any good invasion plan. “

Sam, people will think you’re just being clever, but that’s exactly how it’s been done since man first invaded his neighbor. And it’s always followed by bloodshed. Always.


45 posted on 05/01/2008 2:48:28 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: AuntB
Sam, people will think you’re just being clever...

Understood. It was stated with some sarcasm.
But I was dead serious when I wrote it....knowing full well what lies down the road.

Given the protests we saw last year form illegals taking to the streets with impunity, we had all best be aware of what is coming.

46 posted on 05/01/2008 2:57:00 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (The secret of Life is letting go. The secret of Love is letting it show.)
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To: Dick Bachert

“Newt suggested the 100,000 IRS agents be given weapons and sent down to the border with Mexico.) That certainly works for me.

Under Bush, that flow became a TORRENT! “

Thanks for your post, lots of good points. But Newt, I must take exception to. I believe he said it, don’t get me wrong, but for years he fully supported all of Bush’s amnesty plans. Even signing a letter with other open border advocates, like Linda Chavez promoting it in the Wall St. Journal.

In 1998, workplace enforcement was stopped. The Clinton Admin. had actually been doing a pretty good job until then.
Know who put a stop to it because they wanted cheap labor for their states donors? The Georgia house delegation, that’s who.

Why & When workplace enforcement of illegal aliens stopped
http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/search?q=+Why+%26+When+workplace+enforcement

Newt Gingrich, Conservative? NOT on immigration!
http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/2007/02/newt-gingrich-conservative-not-on.html

[snip]

Conservatives Join Together to Support Immigration and Immigration Reform

Arlington, VA – The following “Conservative Statement of Principles on Immigration” appeared today in the Wall Street Journal. If you have any questions regarding the statement please contact Tamar Jacoby,

The Wall Street Journal

February 6, 2004

Welcome to America


47 posted on 05/01/2008 3:01:54 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Understood.


48 posted on 05/01/2008 3:03:51 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: bill1952
Hispanic are more likely to have children out of wedlock than whites. Don't presume they are keeping traditional culture at all.

AlsoHow many of these children are anchor babies for increasingly desperate illegals?

49 posted on 05/01/2008 3:03:55 PM PDT by rmlew (There is no god but G_d and Moses is his Prophet.)
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To: babble-on
Buy a condo in a building where the board refuses tosecure the lobby or pay for proper doors for all apartments. Then come home one day to find a stranger living in your apartment. Then be asked to put him on the lease.
That is the equivalent of what you are suggesting.
50 posted on 05/01/2008 3:09:01 PM PDT by rmlew (There is no god but G_d and Moses is his Prophet.)
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