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AP: U.S. appeals court rules that paper money discriminates against the blind.
CNN ^ | 5/20/2008 | AP

Posted on 05/20/2008 7:37:27 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA

AP: U.S. appeals court rules that paper money discriminates against the blind. Breaking News on CNN

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
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1 posted on 05/20/2008 7:37:27 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA
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To: Red in Blue PA

This smells like the appeals court in CA.


2 posted on 05/20/2008 7:38:08 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Yup. I;ll bet it’s the Ninth Circus.


3 posted on 05/20/2008 7:39:30 AM PDT by Eurale
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To: Red in Blue PA

I can’t see how this is true.


4 posted on 05/20/2008 7:40:58 AM PDT by FMBass ("Now that I'm sober I watch a lot of news"- Garofalo from Coulter's "Treason")
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To: Red in Blue PA

Didn’t you watch the movie ‘Ray’? He had to get paid all in singles.

But seriously, I think it is quite hard on the blind. I mean, it would have to be.

Would you want to accept money from a cashier if you couldn’t see what they just gave you.


5 posted on 05/20/2008 7:41:30 AM PDT by mrhansen
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To: Eurale

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD90PE1AO0


6 posted on 05/20/2008 7:42:16 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Red in Blue PA

7 posted on 05/20/2008 7:42:16 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: mrhansen

Using that logic, faux leather shoes discriminate too!


8 posted on 05/20/2008 7:43:49 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Not to mention cubic zirconia.


9 posted on 05/20/2008 7:45:10 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Don't prejudge this one. It would be so so easy to put braille identifiers on all bills, and legally speaking what they're not doing violates the fourteenth amendment.
10 posted on 05/20/2008 7:45:33 AM PDT by Carl from Marietta
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To: Red in Blue PA

Baseball cards too.


11 posted on 05/20/2008 7:47:33 AM PDT by A Texan (Oderint dum metuant)
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To: Carl from Marietta

Wouldn’t braille identifiers wear over time?


12 posted on 05/20/2008 7:48:11 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Wrong knee-jerk, faux leather shoes are not mandatory, however, try to get away with using another currency.
13 posted on 05/20/2008 7:48:26 AM PDT by Carl from Marietta
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To: Carl from Marietta

And who is to stop someone from imitating the braille identifiers once they are in place? Just asking. I would love to make life easier for the blind, but in the end, the problem will remain, only in a different form IMO.


14 posted on 05/20/2008 7:49:18 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Red in Blue PA

First of all, I can definitely tell the difference between genuine and faux leather. Who can’t?

Secondly, there is absolutely no feasible or pragmatic way for a blind person to tell what denominations are passing through his hands.

Would you like to be constantly forced to take the word of any random stranger when it came to your money?


15 posted on 05/20/2008 7:50:21 AM PDT by mrhansen
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To: Red in Blue PA

Braille identifiers do wear over time, but not as fast as the currency is taken out of circulation. Several countries have gone to identifiers for the blind, and it was almost no expense to do it. This is the subject of several documentaries on how currency is printed.


16 posted on 05/20/2008 7:52:49 AM PDT by Carl from Marietta
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To: Carl from Marietta

Braille identifiers won’t work well. 1) they would get worn down in use, 2) it would be too easy to counterfeit the braille and cheat a blind person. Instead, blind people use money readers for paper currency and credit and debit cards.


17 posted on 05/20/2008 7:53:26 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Ask me again tomorrow.)
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To: mrhansen

My big question is, “who still uses cash??”


18 posted on 05/20/2008 7:54:15 AM PDT by Bush_Democrat (Ex-Dem since 2001 *Folding@Home for the Gipper - Join the FReeper Folders*)
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To: FMBass

>>>I can’t see how this is true.

I can understand the ruling. For several years I worked in a legal division at the state capitol. The first day at lunch I handed the cafeteria lady a banknote and a co-workers pointed at her own eyes, telling me this was a blind person. I had to tell the lunchlady the denomination.

It had never occurred to me before the problem the blind have with all banknotes seeming the same to the touch.


19 posted on 05/20/2008 7:55:53 AM PDT by tlb
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To: Carl from Marietta

“Wrong knee-jerk, faux leather shoes are not mandatory, however, try to get away with using another currency.”

What is stopping them from using coins?


20 posted on 05/20/2008 7:56:04 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: mrhansen
Secondly, there is absolutely no feasible or pragmatic way for a blind person to tell what denominations are passing through his hands.

Not sure if you mean "using current money" or under any circumstances, but in some countries different denominations are different sizes, just as coins are here.

21 posted on 05/20/2008 7:56:25 AM PDT by untenured
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To: Bush_Democrat

I dread the idea of living in a ‘cashless’ society. Would you really want EVERYTHING you purchase being scrutinized by whoever?


22 posted on 05/20/2008 7:57:16 AM PDT by mrhansen
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To: FMBass
Why don't they just write a check?

Wait... oops... nevermind.

23 posted on 05/20/2008 7:59:08 AM PDT by Lurking in Kansas (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down t heir level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: All
All of you are so fortunate and cavalier. You have no clue as to blindness, I am forced into finding out as my 28yo grandson was run over by a Tahoe, dragged 60 feet and his brain and body bumped and beat horribly. He is recovering from brain injury and blind.
You have no clue as to how hard it is to get him help because of brain injury and blind too. There is help for brain injury but being blind throws a curve the same for being blind, brain injury handicaps you. So, no one really wants to deal with him.
It is difficult to tell money, to learn how to identify clothes, where you are, and on and on and on.
Just be thankful you can see and be so confident and cavalier.
24 posted on 05/20/2008 7:59:21 AM PDT by rose
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To: mrhansen
"Secondly, there is absolutely no feasible or pragmatic way for a blind person to tell what denominations are passing through his hands."

Money readers are available and they work for blind-deaf people as well.


25 posted on 05/20/2008 7:59:24 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Ask me again tomorrow.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Paper or coins is irrelevant. They still have to trust the cashier to tell them what the total is. They’re blind. I’m sorry. Get over it.


26 posted on 05/20/2008 8:00:44 AM PDT by BubbaBasher (No matter who wins, we lose.)
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To: Carl from Marietta
It would not be all that easy to put braille on paper money.

Sure, they'd go on there, but they'd be off in a few days of normal handling.

And imagine the counterfeiting opportunities. Take Ones, punch in Hundreds, pass them among the blind.

A thiefs dream ~ get rich by stealing, and plunder the handicapped.

What more could you want eh.

27 posted on 05/20/2008 8:01:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: rose

Actually there are many, many services for the blind. Contact the National Federation for the Blind or your regional Lighthouse for the Blind office to get started.


28 posted on 05/20/2008 8:01:48 AM PDT by Kirkwood (Ask me again tomorrow.)
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To: mrhansen

“Would you want to accept money from a cashier if you couldn’t see what they just gave you.”

Every bill has a different thickness (at least they did 30+ years ago) and the blind can learn to tell the difference by feel.

There used to be a blind man that ran a snack and candy stand in the enterance o a 13 story building in L.A.that could tell what bill you gave him and be able to make change.

I’ve seen people try to cheat him and they never got away with it, He would ask a 3rd person to verify what bill he had been given and he never missed.


29 posted on 05/20/2008 8:02:52 AM PDT by dalereed (both)
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To: Carl from Marietta

Money in the US is subject to far more handling by machinery than foreign currencies. Braille will wear out in a few passes here.


30 posted on 05/20/2008 8:03:42 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Red in Blue PA
It's not so obvious from the pictures, but they're all different sizes.








31 posted on 05/20/2008 8:05:50 AM PDT by Schnucki
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To: untenured
The first question a blind person must ask as he or she manipulates money is "is this money or is it something else".

It's much easier to counterfeit the feel of money than the look.

32 posted on 05/20/2008 8:05:59 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Red in Blue PA
Here's the opinion:

http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/common/opinions/200805/07-5063-1117127.pdf

(What's up with HTML links not happening?)

The opinion was written by Judith Rogers, a Clinton appointee. She was joined by Thomas Griffith, a GW Bush appointee. Dissenting was Arthur Raymond Randolph, a GHW Bush appointee.

Basically, the opinion affirms the district court's judgment that the current system violates the federal Rehabilitation Act. Treasury failed to show that the system could not be revamped to use different sized paper currency as is done in other countries.

Get ready for teeny tiny single dollar bills.

33 posted on 05/20/2008 8:06:19 AM PDT by King of Florida (A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them.)
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To: Eurale

I would have thought the same, unless of course one actually reads the article before commenting. How much did you want to bet?


34 posted on 05/20/2008 8:07:27 AM PDT by SF Republican
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To: Carl from Marietta
I am not opposed to having braille indicators on paper money, but IMHO this should be a matter of legislation or regulation, not the courts. By the same reasoning airlines discriminate against the blind by hiring pilots based on visual acuity. Are there braille panels below each street sign to allow blind pedestrians to navigate? Isn't that discrimination? What about retail packaging, or every piece of mail that's sent each day. There's no way for a blind person to know whether a piece of mail is misaddressed. Isn't all that discrimination too?
35 posted on 05/20/2008 8:10:28 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: muawiyah
Take Ones, punch in Hundreds, pass them among the blind. A thiefs dream ~ get rich by stealing, and plunder the handicapped.

You've got to be pretty low down to steal from the blind. In my city, the state runs a blind school. At the blind school, they teach the blind all sorts of pretty practical stuff. One guy, who is a graduate of the blind school and an Indianapolis staple, always sells hand made brooms, usually on one particular street corner. About six or seven years ago, I bought a broom from him. I remember it well; it cost $17. I gave him a $20, told him so, and he gave me three singles in return. He kept the bills in different pockets--singles in one, fives in another, tens in still another, etc.

Anyhow, the local paper ran a human interest story on the guy and one of the questions they asked him was how often he got ripped off. He said almost never. He figured that most people just didn't have the heart to scam a blind guy.

Good broom, by the way.

36 posted on 05/20/2008 8:10:35 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Red in Blue PA

So they should add braile to bills; it might have the added benefit of making it harder to counterfit. Dual purpose.


37 posted on 05/20/2008 8:11:36 AM PDT by Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)
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To: mrhansen
Hmmm... Just think, if it were still at a Constitutionally defined ratio of Gold and Silver, the blind could merely use coin for most transactions... (Italicized most because for really big ones they might need something like a notarized cashiers check.)
38 posted on 05/20/2008 8:11:56 AM PDT by Axenolith (Brother, Can you spare a tagline?)
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To: Red in Blue PA

What’s next?! Requesting any amount of “money” over $100 discriminates against poor people?


39 posted on 05/20/2008 8:12:07 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Red in Blue PA

Your sense of smell’s not good. It was Washington D.C.


40 posted on 05/20/2008 8:12:52 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: rose
So, who's being cavalier? It's not like many of us haven't been through periods of blindness, or loss of vision to the degree that we couldn't readily navigate curbs, count money, read a newspaper (or even the internet where we can toke up the text size), and so on.

I'm still having trouble with 3-D ~ my eyes are simply not reporting the world to me correctly, and may not ever do so.

Still, 2-D is better than nothing, or having eyes so sensitive to light that nothing can be seen.

There are, in fact, others here speaking from their own experience, or have worked with blind folks enough that they have a good understanding of what's going on.

41 posted on 05/20/2008 8:13:13 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Other countries I have visited have different sized bills for different denominations. This would probably be the best route to go.


42 posted on 05/20/2008 8:15:07 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: Kirkwood
You did not get what I was trying to relay. I know about all these organizations, etc. Being brain injured throws a huge curve. Your short term memory is shot to hell and back. Your long term memory is not lost but the short term is not there. How do you get him to remember what you just taught him? People do not like to deal with being blind and brain injured, and the people who specialize in brain injury do not like dealing with a brain injured blind person.
I know, we have been to hell and back. I have learned to be aggressive and demanding.
There are a lot of organizations, but they specialize, they are not set up to deal with multiplicity. My grandson-in-law was injured in Iraq, brain too. The army gives him a PDA to write down what he has done, and what his schedule is, no short term memory. He was injured in fall 2006, grandson was injured spring 2007. We are experienced the hard way in brain injury.
43 posted on 05/20/2008 8:15:36 AM PDT by rose
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To: Publius Valerius

Indianapolis has one of America’s lower crime rates. Now, try that in downtown Detroit. Plenty of people there willing to scam the blind, or just beat ‘em up and take all their stuff anyway.


44 posted on 05/20/2008 8:17:58 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Red in Blue PA
I've spent time in countries with different size bills. It's a pain in the tail.

They also have different colors, different pictures, and so on.

They have a reduced amount of mechanized money handling too.

There's really no reason we need to issue "currency" as paper. We could simply punch out $100 coins for example.

45 posted on 05/20/2008 8:20:34 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I am very sorry you have problems with vision and very happy you can see.


46 posted on 05/20/2008 8:22:30 AM PDT by rose
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To: SF Republican

When I read the headline, I thought it was the Onion. The government cannot make everything equal for everyone. This is ridiculous.


47 posted on 05/20/2008 8:22:33 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert (Michael Steele for VP)
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To: merry10; dmw; RoosterRe; Cinnamon Girl; MinorityRepublican; patriot_wes; SweetCaroline; ...

Deaf/Hard of Hearing ping list
with interests in health and society


48 posted on 05/20/2008 8:26:05 AM PDT by wallcrawlr
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To: muawiyah

I forgot about the different sized currency until I read this story. And I did like it alot. It makes it alot easier, ever for those who can see!


49 posted on 05/20/2008 8:26:30 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Truth : Liberals :: Kryptonite : Superman)
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To: DLfromthedesert

My thought also. Radio discriminates against deaf people. Hollywood discriminates against fat people. The list goes on.


50 posted on 05/20/2008 8:27:49 AM PDT by Dante3
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