Posted on 05/23/2008 10:12:33 AM PDT by LeGrande
That is a damned lie. Nifong had no evidence whatsoever because there was none. He and his office, the Durham PD, and the Duke Administration conspired to FRAME innocent men. Look it up.
Most shocking was the state's release of a picture from summer 2007 showing imprisoned sect leader Warren Jeffs, now 52, deeply kissing a then-12-year-old girl, the aunt of the infant born May 12 whose custody was the subject of the hearing.
Rulon Daniel Jessop, the girl's brother and the infant's father, said he sees nothing wrong with his children being in the same house with underage "sister wives" of much older men. .. .. .. I do not consider a girl kissing a man sexual abuse."
Jessop identified the girl, who is listed in FLDS bishop's records as being born July 3, 1994, and is shown in pictures dated July 27, 2006, as his sister.
“Nifong had evidence, but it was of poor quality and compromised numerous ways.”
[That is a damned lie. ]
I didn’t say good evidence, he had some testimony and some circumstantial stuff. It wasn’t the charges that hung Nifong, it waqs that he didn’t change course once the truth came out, AND he hid evidence.
That's complete and utter bullsh!t. He knew from the start that the case was bogus as did the DPD and the Duke Administration. They made it up. Do you hear what I'm saying? THEY MADE IT UP.
Exactly right.
That is how we do things in the land of the Free.
“I can no more provide the entire chain of evidence than you can provide a chain of evidence to the contrary”
The challenge with your argument however is this.
I am not required to provide evidence. The Prosecution is.
You, making an assertion that these people are guilty (without trial) are taking the position of the Prosecution.
It is on YOU to provide the evidentiary chain, not me.
Man, you are out of control. I don't think anyone denies they were blinded their own agenda. But it is tin foil hat stuff to believe they made it up from the start. Delusional yes, conspiratorial I don't think so.
All of the “hang ‘em now” crowd sound like anti-american bigots.
They hate how a particular group chooses to believe so suddenly anything and everything becomes fair game.
This was done in the 1930’s and 40’s too against another group of religious zealots. They called them Jews.
So I guess from the posts here by the hang ‘em now crowd, we can assume gas chambers and firing squads will now be in order, without due process, without trial. Just kill ‘em all.
[It is on YOU to provide the evidentiary chain, not me.]
No, it is on the Texas prosecution to provide that chain. You on the other hand have diddly squat. In comparison, I have 150 years of similar behavior and testimony to cite all leading directly to YFZ.
I am not familiar with your reference, I had another reference in mind, but I will agree that a lot of epithets get thrown around by both sides. I want it known that I proudly originated the Cabal reference here on FR : ) You do not have permission to change its reference.
The apology was sincere, but you are still an enabler. That was my clarification.
Including a false allegation within an apology is not a sincere apology.
Nifong had evidence, but it was of poor quality and compromised numerous ways. The problem never was that he brought charges, but that he proceeded despite evidence to the contrary. There is 150 years of evidence regarding the FLDS and you know it - no rush to judgment here. The problem is not that you question the CPS actions, the problem is that you claim at each and every instance that the state is wrong when in fact the normal safeguards are well in place - that makes you an enabler.
I like this version better.
CPS had evidence, but it was of poor quality and compromised numerous ways. The problem never was that CPS abducted kid, but that the CPS proceeded despite evidence to the contrary. There is 150 years of evidence regarding rape and you know it - no rush to judgment here.
Wasn't that better?
The problem is not that you question the CPS actions, the problem is that you claim at each and every instance that the state is wrong when in fact the normal safeguards are well in place - that makes you an enabler.
Did the normal safeguards work? That is the question. Does the CPS have the right to take adults? No In fact it is a Federal crime punishable by death. Did the CPS have the right to keep the children that it took? No according the appeals court. Have the children been returned? No The CPS adamantly refuses to obey the courts order.
If the CPS workers are convicted of kidnapping, under the Color of Law and sentenced to death, then yes I will agree that the safeguards worked. Would you be willing to place a little bet on the possibility of that outcome? I didn't think so. The system protects its own and the system is clearly broken.
Accusing me of being an enabler because I like to point out the failings of our government is ludicrous in the extreme.
For anyone who believes the FLDS rights are being abused, watch this creepy video of grown women with the minds of 12 year olds.
This is a perfect example of why you are confused. For some reason you seem to think that if someone abuses someone else s rights that it is OK for the government to abuse their rights. This is exactly the type of thinking that causes us to lose our rights.
Do you understand that the Government is not using Criminal law, they are using Civil law to imprison these children? They are punishing the children for the alleged Crimes of their parents without charging their parents with any crime.
If this precedent is allowed to stand, our constitutional rights will have been lost. From then on, everyone will be prosecuted Civilly, where you have to testify against yourself. You don't have a right of privacy, in fact you have no constitutional protections at all. Is that the kind of country that you want to live in? Has your hatred of the FLDS blinded you to the bigger picture?
The glorious fact is that in a free society, people are free to do and believe things that you may find abhorrent. I find your beliefs to be abhorrent and repulsive, for the sake of living in a Free Country though, I am willing to support your right to have your evil, twisted beliefs. I would rather a dozen guilty men walk free than an innocent man go to jail. To have a free society we have to error on the side of freedom. Will innocent people get hurt? Yes. Will the guilty walk free sometimes? Yes. A free society is not perfect, but it is a lot better than any of the alternatives, especially yours FastCoyote.
You obviously haven’t been following the case.
http://ekstrandlawsuit.blogspot.com/
http://www.dukelawsuit.com/
http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2007/10/5/20071005_laxlawsuit.pdf
It was a Frame. Here are the lawsuits alleging that very thing.
Then produce your evidence to the Texas Prosecutor and see how much of it he can use in court.
If you are so knowledgeable about all things associated with this group and you are not working for the State of Texas in this matter then you are witholding evidence.
Provide it to them and see what they use.
I don’t have to have diddly squat. It’s not on me or on the defense to prove a damned thing. It’s on the prosecution to prove a crime has been committed, and that in a Court of Law.
Until they do these people are innocent.
What part of that don’t you understand?
FC: Actually, you are the confused one. The “pigs to be hosed” term comes directly from a thread started by Grig. It had quite a number of Mormon signatories agreeing to the concept of hosing down the pig Gentiles. If there was ever a post that needed pulling, that was it, but it is an important reminder of who the real cabal is.
Legrande: I am not familiar with your reference, I had another reference in mind, but I will agree that a lot of epithets get thrown around by both sides. I want it known that I proudly originated the Cabal reference here on FR : ) You do not have permission to change its reference.
I didn’t know you owned the word Cabal. Nevertheless, it applies just as well to the Mormon posters as to the gentiles, so too bad so sad. And as far as “a lot of epithets” it generally runs at least 2 to 1 in your favor. On this thread alone I’ve been refered to as lynch mob, cabal, sexual pervert, liar, running dog, etc.
Legrande: If the CPS workers are convicted of kidnapping, under the Color of Law and sentenced to death, then yes I will agree that the safeguards worked. Would you be willing to place a little bet on the possibility of that outcome? I didn’t think so. The system protects its own and the system is clearly broken.
Yikes, you are off the deep end if you said what I just think you said. I have no illusion the CPS is perfect by any means, but to put them in the criminal status is tres bizarre.
“Then produce your evidence to the Texas Prosecutor and see how much of it he can use in court.”
That’s a deal. Except I think they already have most of it and are using it.
Then we can agree that they are innocent until they are proven guilty in a court of Law.
You are just picking up on this now? The CPS abducted and detained adult women, one of them was a 27 year old women who provided a drivers license and birth certificate that proved that she was 27 years old. The Child protective service has absolutely zero authority over her and yet they kidnapped her along with the rest of the children and apx. 25 other adult women.
Officially that is considered Kidnapping under the Federal Color of Law Statute and it can be a death penalty offense. There are severe Federal penalties for Public Officials who use the Law to violate peoples rights. The CPS clearly violated Federal law when they took these women into custody. Do you think that the CPS officials should have to pay for breaking the law? Or since they were doing Gods work, in your opinion, should they be able to kidnap anyone they want for any little reason that they can dream up?
Relax, I am on your side. If I had my way Nifong would suffer the same penalty X 100 that he was trying to inflict on the innocent Duke Lacrosse members. I was one of the original people here on FR that recognized that Nifong was framing the team simply for political purposes. I suffered the same attacks then that I have been suffering on this Texas CPS case.
The truth though, is that many of the players were at the party with the stripper. That is evidence, it doesn't prove anything but it is evidence. There are witnesses to that effect. Nifong also had the testimony of the stripper that these men raped her. That is evidence too, but it doesn't prove anything. Often, sadly, that alone is enough evidence to get a conviction.
Obviously, there was no rape and Nifong did his damnedest to falsely convict those men. If there was any justice in this world Nifong, the detective, the DNA guy and the stripper would be spending the rest of their lives in solitary confinement with no possibility of parole. What they did was heinous.
FastCoyote is defending the CPS for doing almost the identical (in principle) things that Nifong did. To me that is reprehensible.
Yes, I realized that. My reply was to Fast Coyote.
Thanks for the link, I was not condoning Warren Jeffs kissing a 12 year old girl. As far as the father of that new baby goes, stupid comment, and if he believes it, then yikes. However, how can the state of Texas introduce those pictures when the abuse isn’t imminent for that newborn?
Young girls are getting married too early, so investigate that. Young men are being tossed out at early ages, so investigate that. I’ve been trying to follow this story, and IMO, the state of Texas doesn’t have its ducks in a row. Some have speculated the phone call really set off the raid (still can’t find a real source that says if it was a hoax or not.) The raid was too early.
I’ve also read where CPS said they didn’t expect to have over 400 children in custody. That statement right there shows their lack of information. And then I think they were housing these children and their mothers in the coliseum, and were racing against Texas law (they had 14 days to present their cases.)
And I do believe that if the state would have come in and taken the children at the highest risk (the pregnant teens and the teenage boys), the rest of the FLDS would have left.
I do not condone polygamy. I read about the custody hearing, and the FLDS people are very evasive on the witness stand. But the state must still follow the law, which they are trying to do. It is just a big can of worms, and I don’t know the solution or the outcome.
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