Posted on 05/23/2008 10:12:33 AM PDT by LeGrande
"The raid - resulting in the largest child custody case in American history - was based on a lie."
"Police traced the calls to 33-year-old Colorado Springs woman named Rozita Swinton. Swinton had earlier been arrested for making a false report, and accused of posing as "Jennifer," 16, who called 911 to report that her father had locked her in a basement for days. Swinton may also have posed as thirteen-year-old Dana Anderson, who was being sexually abused by her pastor and raped by her father. There is no evidence that Sarah, Jennifer, or Dana exist. Swinton remains a "person of interest" in the case, but has not been charged in connection to the raid. "
>> Ready for another round of “let’s defend FLDS?”
Get real.
I’m not defending FLDS. If they prove a case against a child rapist, I’ll pull the trapdoor on the gallows myself.
So far, they have not done so. There have been ZERO charges brought in this case. Not only that, but every week more disturbing facts come to light regarding the nazi tactics employed.
I AM deeply disturbed by the trampling of rights for which there IS evidence.
The CPS smackdown was unanimous. UNANIMOUS. There was not a SINGLE voice of dissent that CPS overstepped their bounds.
But for you Mary Mapes types, it’s clear: once you have acted as judge, jury, executioner —
“It’s not the facts that are important, it’s the seriousness of the charge”.
You should hang your head in shame (or move to a liberal forum — one more in line with the rape of the citizens at the hands of the state).
lol, you need to be talking to her, not me. I don’t believe that people should be willing to give up DNA “evidence” if they aren’t charged with a crime. That’s illegal search and seizure. Furthermore, no one has been charged yet. Also, if someone rapes his daughter (from your church) let me ask, why would YOU be involved or be considered to be involved in the crime?
Oh, WAIT that HAPPENED in Texas DIDN’T it, because of folks like some of the people on this thread who happen to detest what they call cults. I forgot.
:)
Very classy statement, rw, and I for one commend you for it.
So many that just accepted everything that TX Gov't said, or the media reported, have become simply rabid in their abuse of those of us who said "whoa there - where is the rule of law?".
That you listened to others, and changed your opinions based on solid evidence, speaks volumes about you.
If ever I am in need of a sincere juror, may I call on you?
Yes I believe so.
Sadly that is worth repeating.
LOL! My husband said that taking care of *one* family breaks his butt. He can't imagine keeping up with the demands of 3 or more women!
Please read the article again. Suppose someone told a lie about you and the authorities believed it hook line and sinker and treated you as a criminal even though you were innocent. That is why CPS got in trouble. They condemned an entire community on a false report. The Constitution is the only thing that stands between us and tyrrany and I thank God for the Constitution. The authorities terrorized innocent little children, by the way, and many will be suffering from PTSD permanently. All based on a false report.
Thank you for having the courage to post this article and thank you for taking it on the chin here on FR. You done us proud. The Constitution may still be alive after all.
I think it is very unlikely that a higher court will overturn this ruling because CPS blew it by raiding the ranch in the first place on a false report and by holding adult women captive, being falsely accused of being minor children - not to mention treating the entire community as one family instead of individual families and individuals.
What bothers me the most is,the woman in charge of CPS is the same woman in charge at Waco and we know how that turned out.Watching SWAT and all encompass the compound made me suspect from the beginning.Hope I am wrong.
I don’t know if you read any of my previous posts on other threads but my husband’s theory about this case is that someone wants the ranch property really bad. It was purchased by FLDS for $700,000 and is now worth millions after they made a bunch of improvements. That’s my husband’s theory about why this all started and I think he might have something there.
Books, articles, internet, the FLDS is very well researched. My limited experience with nutcases is that they can be extremely knowledgeable and hard to argue with.
I would encourage you to consider how much of your perception of the mindset of the men posting on FR is really just a projection of your own thoughts.
If you offered non FLDS men the chance to swap places with one of the polygamous FLDS men I doubt you'd find any takers.
Why would any man want to live in such a structured, complex group, working as hard as they do, under the rule of some "prophet" just so that they could have sex with more than one woman? Any guy who wants to do that can have as many sexual partners as he wants -- without the burdens of supporting children, praying twice a day, building a temple, obeying the leader, etc. Ask any single guy who likes women. There is no shortage of single women in the world today.
Why would some guy who just wanted to have sex - even with a young woman - bother with all that effort when he could just jump in his pickup truck and drive to Nevada where he can have whatever he wants for $200?
Why do you think that for over one hundred years a group of FLDS women have chosen to live the lifestyle that they do, teaching their daughters and sons the beliefs (albeit unusual) of their religion? Given that they outnumber the men, and in many cases apparently groups of women run households with only infrequent visits from their "husband" who is off elsewhere working to raise money to support them, wouldn't it be just as logical to conclude that the entire enterprise was somehow of benefit to, or actually liked by the women who participate in it? Or maybe even that they, like the men, really believe in their religion?
Instead of viewing the actions of the FLDS members through your own perspectives and projections, try to examine them from the point of view of someone who believes in their religion the way you believe in yours. Their beliefs may be strange, but I am sure they hold them as deeply as anyone else holds their religious beliefs.
Oh, great! Now, in addition to the systematic detainment and removal of the children and the separation from their mothers and family, legal warrants issued without probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized [Fourth Amendment], and total disregard for "due process" [Fifth Amendment: nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law], you want all of these people- who have not yet been charged with any crime, to be subjected, under force of government power and duress, to give samples of their DNA to assist the government in prosecuting any case against them. [Fifth Amendment again: nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself]. Yeah, that's exactly what we need to have done. NOT!! Have you ever even read the US Constitution?
I am convinced such evidence would demonstrate multi-generational, systemitized incest which is illegal and abusive.
Fortunately for those of us in the United States, we don't have to either live by or give a rat's ass what you are "convinced" of. We have the Constitution to give us a bit more substantive, reasoned and logical guidance. What ever religion you belong to (or none), you should be very happy that that old musty document is still at least supposed to be followed, otherwise somebody else like you could be "convinced" that your religion or religious beliefs are nothing but a "cult" and break down the doors to your house, remove your family, separate them by hundreds of miles and cost you tens of thousands of dollars to try to regain what little bit of your previous life you could-- which you never would.
Since you don't/didn't understand the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, maybe you should try to comprehend the First: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble..."
Then after you read and understand those, maybe the Sixth would be good information: In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
In case you might wonder, there are still even more Amendments that might apply- the Eighth: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. While I'm no legal scholar, might not even you consider the forcible removal of your children or family to be a "cruel and unusual punishment", especially since NO CRIME nor TRIAL has yet been established or even charged?
While you are reading that old musty document, maybe you'll run across another amendment that applies here- The Fourteenth: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. That's just in case you don't think that the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh Amendments weren't lucidly written nor understandable to be followed by government bureaucrats- state, local, federal or even people like you.
I must say that your ignorance of the most basic, supreme law of the land, the US Constitution, is encyclopedic. It doesn't matter how much you care, or are convinced, or feeeeeeeeeel about something as basic and crucial as our individual and collective liberties, if you or the "authorities" can't follow our own laws and common, logical legal practices based upon the supreme law of the land guaranteeing our God-given, unalienable rights, then those "authorities" are the ones who should be removed from their families and society, their property confiscated and them incarcerated away from the rest of rational society.
If you want to think like a liberal, that's fine. Just don't try to make all the rest of us "conform" to what you are "convinced" of. It might come as a surprise to you, but maybe we all don't think the same way and believe the same way, or are not as "convinced" as you are after reading fairy tales published as fact by the snooze media, who have their own agendas.
Sorry, but it will take a LOT more to "convince" me to make anyone give up their Constitutional rights just because someone, somewhere doesn't like what they "think" or "are convinced of" or "assume" they are/are not doing.
Don't get me wrong on this. I'm upholding the legal, unalienable rights of people, guaranteed by our Constitution, not any specific "religious" practices by any group. I just have a bit of an understanding of the Constitution and actual laws and I don't really care what you are "convinced" of if that is in violation of those laws and Constitution. If the authorities want to do something about what are legal violations, then they follow the rules and do "due diligence" and proper investigations, obtain factually and procedurally correct warrants, and provide the innocent until proven guilty citizens every legal right they are entitled to.
If these perversions of rights are allowed to stand, then YOU may be next:
"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller, regarding Germany's fall to the Nazis
Remember who you are getting your "facts" from: That awful power, the public opinion of a nation, is created in America by a horde of ignorant, self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditchdigging and shoemaking and fetched up in journalism on their way to the poorhouse."
--Mark Twain, License of the Press, A Talk Before the Monday Evening Club, Hartford, 1873.
"...religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government."
--James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822
Regarding your being "convinced": "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
--Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
I have a theory that this whole Texas, Yearning for Zion compound and Temple was a set up.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we find out that all of the people there were handpicked, law abiding, FLDS members. The idea being to create a safe haven where the law couldn’t touch them. They had to know that they were being investigated and the best way to stop any investigation cold is to not break any laws.
Acquiescing and creating confusion when the authorities come, is a very good strategy when dealing with legal issues. The CPS raided the compound three times and they had no clue about what was going on, so they freaked out and just took everyone, counting on the fact that it would be easy to prove child abuse, simply because of the seriousness of all the allegations.
The FLDS lawyers have played the CPS like a fiddle and it looks like the State of Texas is going to pick up the tab and support the FLDS members in high style for the next 100 years. And if the FLDS are careful, they will be untouchable.
It is people just like you, Virginia Ridgerunner; greyfoxx39; colorcountry, FastCoyote, who let their emotions and hatred rule, that have caused this to happen. The CPS officials were so certain that they had them cold, that they got tunnel vision and only saw what they wanted to see. Now I am sure that they are in shock wondering what happened. They may yet prevail, the governments powers are awesome, but I fear that the FLDS may have a few aces up their sleeves. All they have to do now (if they lose on appeal) is show that the remaining 5 women are legal and the State is Texas is going to pay and pay.
whoa! Good schooling!
I’m going to bookmark your post for future reference, if you don’t mind (or even if you do). ;-)
Only thing is, you thoroughly covered a lot of ground in a detailed way. I’m not sure the “Mary Mapes” crowd here on FR has the brains or patience to pay attention to it. They’re too busy with their own unshakeable agenda to get the point.
Pants on fire. I bet she got the idea from ‘Big Love’. Anyway, it did some good and exposed some scum.
So if ANY illegal activity is going on in the home, or is believed to be happening, then the state can come in and take away the children?
How about in the jurisdictions where anti-sodomy laws are still on the books? If a neighbor alleges that Mr. and Mrs Smith are engaged in a little in-through-the-out-door activity, can CPS come in and take away the Smith children?
What is Mr. Smith is found to be cheating on his taxes? That's illegal. Take away the kids.
There are people accused and found guilty of crimes every day, and they often still keep custody of the children.
That's not entirely a joke. The prisons are filled with thousands of men who were arrested for driving violations like DUI and driving under suspension. How many of those incarcerations result in permanent family separations?
So you're saying that we didn't "Keep Sweet?"
Nice.
I had no idea, but I did noticed that the techniques they used seemed eerily similar. Did any government people go to prison because of Waco? You don't need to answer, I think I can guess.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.