Skip to comments.Catholics Debate Obama Vote
Posted on 06/08/2008 10:22:04 AM PDT by kellynla
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama? The question has been raised by a law professor at Pepperdine University, who went from being a Mitt Romney adviser to an Obama supporter. The question is further raised by the appearance of the angry Rev. Michael Pfleger, a longtime friend of the Democratic nominee who recently preached at Obama's former Trinity church.
Since this topic was recently a matter of talking heads' concerns, I was asked, in all seriousness, if Catholics can even vote. After all, war is bad. The death penalty is bad. Abortion is bad. John McCain supports the war on terror and capital punishment, but he is against abortion. Obama is antiwar and anti-death penalty but pro-abortion. So neither wins. Or does Obama win? "Can Catholics vote for anyone?" readers asked.
The answer is not up to me. The individual Catholic derives an answer through reflection on the demands of his or her conscience, informed by the teaching of the Church. Neither of those steps can be glossed over. And there can be no mistaking what responsibilities the Catholic voter faces.
E-mailers have also asked, as the following did: "You are, of course, aware that the Catholic Church also sees contraception as a sin as well. Since means never justify the ends, voting for a candidate that promotes contraception as an alternative to abortion is also wrong. Without researching, I assume all major candidates have no problem with contraception, therefore, no candidate should get Catholic votes by your line of reasoning. I'm sorry for this rant, but I do not like people playing politics with my religion."
It is true that no presidential candidate is going to call for a ban on contraception. That's not a serious consideration. But politics can never be wholly divorced from religion. Our religious morality necessarily informs our political judgments.
Pope Benedict XVI, in a speech to European politicians in 2006, offered some instruction for the Catholic conscience: "As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the principal focus of her interventions in the public arena is the protection and promotion of the dignity of the person, and she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable. Among these the following emerge clearly today: the protection of life in all its stages... recognition and promotion of the natural structure of the family... and the protection of the rights of parents to educate their children."
That "not negotiable" is not to be missed.
The thing about abortion is, it's not just any other issue. As serious as so many others are, abortion is not open to debate; it falls into the category of non-negotiable.
So can a Catholic vote for a politician who supports legal abortion? Providing guidance, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver writes that a Catholic voter would "need a compelling, proportionate reason to justify it. ... It's the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life -- which we most certainly will. If we're confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed."
The Catholic Catechism instructs that a child "must be treated from conception as a person." Obama said that he would never want his daughters to be "punished" with the birth of an unplanned baby, as if it were a thing to be disposed of. As an Illinois state senator, he opposed legislation that would protect babies born alive in botched abortion attempts. He explained, "Whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a -- a child, a 9-month-old -- child that was delivered to term ... it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute." That would be a child, albeit not a 9-month-old child, whose life he dismissed. This is the Democrats' candidate for president.
Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn't just any issue. It's a grave offense and betrayal to protecting the most innocent human life. If you're a Catholic who honestly can see how Obama's election as president won't contribute to or compound that offence, go in peace. I don't see it. I don't see how anyone can see it. And so for those who don't get a vote, for those who have been murdered in the name of "choice," this Catholic will cast hers against him in November.
Which shows that he is well versed in political expediency.
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?
No, nor can any other true Christian.
I thought B.O. was the “messiah” (cough)?
Now where are those pesky nails...
Kansas’ governor, Sebilius, is supposedly in charge of Catholic outreach for Obama and wants more than anything to be chosen as VP. However, she’s been enjoined from taking communion because she is, first and foremost, a pro-abort politician. And she was just caught trying to stiff the Kansas taxpayers with the bill for a party she threw for her biggest benefactor and at-birth abortionist, George Tiller and some of his abortionist friends.
Sure. Same as the Jews voted for Keith Ellison.
No, nor can any other true Christian.
I used to have a quote by our pastor as my tagline some time ago. It was one of those rare occassions where he takes off his clerical collar - when the discussion is political.
"I don't know how any Christian can go to Church on Sunday and vote for a democrat on Tuesday."
We stopped Saddam Hussein’s reign of terror. He was responsible for the deaths of 1.3 million innocents. We don’t target innocents and go out of our way to protect them. The enemy slaughters innocents. This Catholic is behind a war whose purpose is to stop evil.
Barack Obama would not even vote yes to protect an aborted baby who was alive when ripped from the womb. How can any Catholic support that?
I say Amen to your pastor!
Your pastor is wise.
No offense intended, but is this really Catholic doctrine?
Every fertilized egg, natural miscarriage and induced abortion is an immortal soul that presumably goes to heaven, since it has had no chance to sin? That will significantly increase the population.
“but is this really Catholic doctrine?”
is what Catholic docrine?
The writer must not be familiar with the “Just War Doctrine” of the Catholic Church.
The question should be how could an American vote for Obama.
Should not any person that wants to be the President of the United States at least believe in their core that America is the greatest Nation on the planet and its people are the best?
I know it is not a written requirement in the Constitution but it is one of those things that our founders could never have believed needed addressed.
Here’s my debate: NO.
It isn’t just Obambi’s disregard for life, it is his Marxian worldview and his choice of friends.
The answer is an emphatic NO.
-— Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama? -—
Not one that’s got an ounce of morals.
The Holy Church sees contraception as sinful, but it understands that many others do not and to seek to impose Catholic dogma on the public is at best a return to medieval times. Abortion, however, is the taking of innocent human life and that action demands the Church speak out and endeavor to influence society.
Most non Catholics, and some Catholics, do not see the nuance here. They look at Church efforts against abortion as being the same as compelling Sunday Mass or meatless Fridays. Just another Catholic religious practice and belief that should never be imposed on non Catholics.
A question I always ask these people is are they absolutely sure the embryo is not a human life? If they are 100%certain then I cannot hope to sway them, but if they have even the slightest doubt, I turn the argument against capital punishment upon them. If there is the slightest question of guilt or responsibility for a crime then the final punishment should never be invoked. If there is the slightest possibilty of the true humanity of that embryo then ending its existence should never be an option.
What's to debate?
Barack Hussein Obama is the apex of the hate-America, domestic enemy in this country. His election as president would be the greatest coup any enemy has ever scored against this country and could easily lead to the worst, horrific disaster in our nation's history.
Vote for a real conservative. Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta.
Barack Obama voted against the Born Alive Protection Act in the Illinois Senate. He’s a radical abortionist, baby killer, and by that vote, shows he supports infanticide. What’s the question here?
As the bumper sticker says: “You Cannot be Catholic and be in Favor of Abortion”
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1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
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2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
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2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
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gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
“No Catholic can vote for ;BabyKiller Obama’ since he has voted repeatedly to support abortion and partial birth abortion”
And he also has supported post birth abortion aka opposing the born alive infants’ protection act.
He thinks babies are “punishments.”
You really want Obama to win, don’t you?
Think about it.
Barack also is big into supporting so called “Gay Marriages” and wants The Defense of Marriage Act “modified”.
Name your social, religious, or cultural issue and it is a safe bet that he is outside the mainstream.
Aren't you glad that your mother didn't believe in abortion"
Any Catholic who votes for Obama is automatically excommunicating themselves.
“Every fertilized egg, natural miscarriage and induced abortion is an immortal soul that presumably goes to heaven, since it has had no chance to sin...”
A miscarriage is a natural event and could be for God’s own purpose and plan. An abortion is the murder of an infant. The fetus doesn’t become a “dog is a pig is a whale is a human” a la PETA, but a human being in fetal or embryonic form.
The point is that by interfering with the development of a human being, we become the judge of who lives and who dies. IUD’s prevent an embryonic human from attaching to the womb to grow. An infant is clearly human early in the pregnancy.
Do we know for a fact that the little souls are present in the embryonic stage or in the early fetal stage? God said he knows us from before our gestation. Who are we to say otherwise.
There are 45,000,000 missing children in the world who had a purpose since we believe that each person is born with a specific God-given purpose, even if it is only to sit there disabled to teach someone something necessary in God’s plan or as a victim soul.
About baptism: “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments...”
There is baptism by blood also. Those innocents who die by such violence in the womb certainly are baptised by blood.
Try this site for a better answer than my poor attempt:
Divorce and abandoning one’s crippled wife for a younger, hotter, rich girl also isn’t indicative of “good family values.”
We can’t “pick and choose” which of the teachings of the Church to follow and which to abandon...but politicians aren’t saints. We have to choose the lesser of two evils once the primaries are done.
I am not Catholic but I attended a Catholic School for 12 years. I was taught that murder was wrong, and it is! However, killing like in war is often necessary, but not especially desirable. A method of last resort. The Bible tells of necessary war. No one with a speck of humanity likes to see killing. To be anti-war can be noble but can also be ignorant and self destructive.
Abortion however is outright murder and anyone who votes for a candidate who approves/supports abortion in any stage of pregnancy is in my opinion also a murderer by proxy.
I know a bunch of em who voted for Clinton. Twice. Actually thrice, if you include Hillary's primary run.
It CERTAINLY is worth repeating!
“Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn’t just any issue.”
Something else worth repeating:
It isnt just Obambis disregard for life, it is his Marxian worldview and his choice of friends.”
“The question should be how could an American vote FOR Obama.
Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta. This will take votes away from McCain...and GIVE the election to Obama.
catholics voting for b. HUSSEIN is no different than Jews voting for b. HUSSEIN.....this closet muzzie will sell out both groups!!!!
Only if that voter believes that the pope isn't Catholic.
How a practical, practicing Catholic could support ANY candidate that belongs to the party of death is difficult to understand.
Some view Catholicism as a smorgasbord, choosing to believe only in what fits their lifestyle. I truly feel sorry for them.
We've got the same problem on the Protestant side of the fence, my friend.
Come to think of it, that's where our side of the fence came from, wasn't it?
Yep. Republican campaigns this season have been infiltrated by Democrats who have no intention of seeing a Republican victorious in November.
Howard Dean’s team supported McCain going as far back as 2006 for his 2008 campaign. They became part of his website team.
Well, I’ll say one thing - he is from the OLD school.
Makes me think of a time years ago I heard some nut on the radio justifying his pro-abortion position and how there was no conflict with that position while being a practicing Catholic. That guy's name was Bernie Ward.
Ted Kennedy is a devout Catholic who supports Obama.
Ted Kennedy is a devout DRUNK, a murderer and an enabler of rape. Kennedy, by his own actions and deeds excommunicated himself from the Catholic Church long ago.
And he will soon be burning in Hell for all eternity.
But war and the dealth penalty are?
Those not voting for Bob Barr are giving the election to a liberal.
Depends on one's state. My vote for Bob Barr is unlikely to have any effect, but if it does have some effects I'd say the good ones would outweigh the bad.
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