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Catholics Debate Obama Vote ^ | June 06, 2008 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

Posted on 06/08/2008 10:22:04 AM PDT by kellynla

Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama? The question has been raised by a law professor at Pepperdine University, who went from being a Mitt Romney adviser to an Obama supporter. The question is further raised by the appearance of the angry Rev. Michael Pfleger, a longtime friend of the Democratic nominee who recently preached at Obama's former Trinity church.

Since this topic was recently a matter of talking heads' concerns, I was asked, in all seriousness, if Catholics can even vote. After all, war is bad. The death penalty is bad. Abortion is bad. John McCain supports the war on terror and capital punishment, but he is against abortion. Obama is antiwar and anti-death penalty but pro-abortion. So neither wins. Or does Obama win? "Can Catholics vote for anyone?" readers asked.

The answer is not up to me. The individual Catholic derives an answer through reflection on the demands of his or her conscience, informed by the teaching of the Church. Neither of those steps can be glossed over. And there can be no mistaking what responsibilities the Catholic voter faces.

E-mailers have also asked, as the following did: "You are, of course, aware that the Catholic Church also sees contraception as a sin as well. Since means never justify the ends, voting for a candidate that promotes contraception as an alternative to abortion is also wrong. Without researching, I assume all major candidates have no problem with contraception, therefore, no candidate should get Catholic votes by your line of reasoning. I'm sorry for this rant, but I do not like people playing politics with my religion."

It is true that no presidential candidate is going to call for a ban on contraception. That's not a serious consideration. But politics can never be wholly divorced from religion. Our religious morality necessarily informs our political judgments.

Pope Benedict XVI, in a speech to European politicians in 2006, offered some instruction for the Catholic conscience: "As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the principal focus of her interventions in the public arena is the protection and promotion of the dignity of the person, and she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable. Among these the following emerge clearly today: the protection of life in all its stages... recognition and promotion of the natural structure of the family... and the protection of the rights of parents to educate their children."

That "not negotiable" is not to be missed.

The thing about abortion is, it's not just any other issue. As serious as so many others are, abortion is not open to debate; it falls into the category of non-negotiable.

So can a Catholic vote for a politician who supports legal abortion? Providing guidance, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver writes that a Catholic voter would "need a compelling, proportionate reason to justify it. ... It's the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life -- which we most certainly will. If we're confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed."

The Catholic Catechism instructs that a child "must be treated from conception as a person." Obama said that he would never want his daughters to be "punished" with the birth of an unplanned baby, as if it were a thing to be disposed of. As an Illinois state senator, he opposed legislation that would protect babies born alive in botched abortion attempts. He explained, "Whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a -- a child, a 9-month-old -- child that was delivered to term ... it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute." That would be a child, albeit not a 9-month-old child, whose life he dismissed. This is the Democrats' candidate for president.

Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn't just any issue. It's a grave offense and betrayal to protecting the most innocent human life. If you're a Catholic who honestly can see how Obama's election as president won't contribute to or compound that offence, go in peace. I don't see it. I don't see how anyone can see it. And so for those who don't get a vote, for those who have been murdered in the name of "choice," this Catholic will cast hers against him in November.

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; abortion; catholics; catholicvote; election; prolife
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To: kellynla
Contraception, masturbation etc. are like all sins, sins of selfishness, putting our own pleasures before God. They are acts of the individual and most often affect no other person beyond the actor( actors in the case of a couple.) But abortion reaches beyond as it impacts the existence of another human.

The Holy Church sees contraception as sinful, but it understands that many others do not and to seek to impose Catholic dogma on the public is at best a return to medieval times. Abortion, however, is the taking of innocent human life and that action demands the Church speak out and endeavor to influence society.

Most non Catholics, and some Catholics, do not see the nuance here. They look at Church efforts against abortion as being the same as compelling Sunday Mass or meatless Fridays. Just another Catholic religious practice and belief that should never be imposed on non Catholics.

A question I always ask these people is are they absolutely sure the embryo is not a human life? If they are 100%certain then I cannot hope to sway them, but if they have even the slightest doubt, I turn the argument against capital punishment upon them. If there is the slightest question of guilt or responsibility for a crime then the final punishment should never be invoked. If there is the slightest possibilty of the true humanity of that embryo then ending its existence should never be an option.

21 posted on 06/08/2008 11:06:38 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: kellynla
Obama proudly supports partial bith abortion, and as a senator in Illinois held up a bill and would not vote for it or allow it to come to a vote, that would have outlawed live birth abortions.

What's to debate?

Barack Hussein Obama is the apex of the hate-America, domestic enemy in this country. His election as president would be the greatest coup any enemy has ever scored against this country and could easily lead to the worst, horrific disaster in our nation's history.


22 posted on 06/08/2008 11:07:01 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (
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The question should be how could an American vote for Obama.

Vote for a real conservative. Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta.

23 posted on 06/08/2008 11:08:14 AM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: All

Barack Obama voted against the Born Alive Protection Act in the Illinois Senate. He’s a radical abortionist, baby killer, and by that vote, shows he supports infanticide. What’s the question here?

As the bumper sticker says: “You Cannot be Catholic and be in Favor of Abortion”

24 posted on 06/08/2008 11:11:21 AM PDT by RooRoobird20 (Thankkfully Converted Catholic)
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To: kellynla
No Catholic can vote for ;BabyKiller Obama' since he has voted repeatedly to support abortion and partial birth abortion. He also takes and gets earmarks for Planned Parenthood.

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

1: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches
1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,

2: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches
2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A

3: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches
2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),

4: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches
gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent

25 posted on 06/08/2008 11:14:17 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: kellynla
Catholics Debate Obama Vote

US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]

Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?

DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election

EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)

Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question

Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers

McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)

Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops

26 posted on 06/08/2008 11:16:11 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

“No Catholic can vote for ;BabyKiller Obama’ since he has voted repeatedly to support abortion and partial birth abortion”

And he also has supported post birth abortion aka opposing the born alive infants’ protection act.

He thinks babies are “punishments.”

27 posted on 06/08/2008 11:18:25 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: E. Cartman

You really want Obama to win, don’t you?

Think about it.

28 posted on 06/08/2008 11:18:30 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Jeff Head

Barack also is big into supporting so called “Gay Marriages” and wants The Defense of Marriage Act “modified”.

Name your social, religious, or cultural issue and it is a safe bet that he is outside the mainstream.

29 posted on 06/08/2008 11:19:25 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ The Obamao v Mad Jon, win the battle and lose the war..choice of evils be..)
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To: RooRoobird20
Another bumper sticker that I have seen:

Aren't you glad that your mother didn't believe in abortion"

30 posted on 06/08/2008 11:19:59 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All

Any Catholic who votes for Obama is automatically excommunicating themselves.

31 posted on 06/08/2008 11:20:52 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Sherman Logan

“Every fertilized egg, natural miscarriage and induced abortion is an immortal soul that presumably goes to heaven, since it has had no chance to sin...”

A miscarriage is a natural event and could be for God’s own purpose and plan. An abortion is the murder of an infant. The fetus doesn’t become a “dog is a pig is a whale is a human” a la PETA, but a human being in fetal or embryonic form.

The point is that by interfering with the development of a human being, we become the judge of who lives and who dies. IUD’s prevent an embryonic human from attaching to the womb to grow. An infant is clearly human early in the pregnancy.

Do we know for a fact that the little souls are present in the embryonic stage or in the early fetal stage? God said he knows us from before our gestation. Who are we to say otherwise.

There are 45,000,000 missing children in the world who had a purpose since we believe that each person is born with a specific God-given purpose, even if it is only to sit there disabled to teach someone something necessary in God’s plan or as a victim soul.

About baptism: “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments...”

There is baptism by blood also. Those innocents who die by such violence in the womb certainly are baptised by blood.

Try this site for a better answer than my poor attempt:

32 posted on 06/08/2008 11:26:35 AM PDT by OpusatFR (School of Cynics)
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To: kellynla

Divorce and abandoning one’s crippled wife for a younger, hotter, rich girl also isn’t indicative of “good family values.”

We can’t “pick and choose” which of the teachings of the Church to follow and which to abandon...but politicians aren’t saints. We have to choose the lesser of two evils once the primaries are done.

33 posted on 06/08/2008 11:31:20 AM PDT by Chucky is a girlie man
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To: doug from upland
Barack Obama would not even vote yes to protect an aborted baby who was alive when ripped from the womb. How can any Catholic support that?

I am not Catholic but I attended a Catholic School for 12 years. I was taught that murder was wrong, and it is! However, killing like in war is often necessary, but not especially desirable. A method of last resort. The Bible tells of necessary war. No one with a speck of humanity likes to see killing. To be anti-war can be noble but can also be ignorant and self destructive.

Abortion however is outright murder and anyone who votes for a candidate who approves/supports abortion in any stage of pregnancy is in my opinion also a murderer by proxy.

34 posted on 06/08/2008 11:31:33 AM PDT by oswegodeee (Dee) ( Born in the South and raised in a G_D centered home)
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To: Arrowhead1952
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

I know a bunch of em who voted for Clinton. Twice. Actually thrice, if you include Hillary's primary run.

35 posted on 06/08/2008 11:34:38 AM PDT by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: socialismisinsidious

It CERTAINLY is worth repeating!

“Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn’t just any issue.”

36 posted on 06/08/2008 11:38:42 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: OpusatFR

Something else worth repeating:


It isn’t just Obambi’s disregard for life, it is his Marxian worldview and his choice of friends.”

37 posted on 06/08/2008 11:41:11 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: E. Cartman

“The question should be how could an American vote FOR Obama.

Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta. This will take votes away from McCain...and GIVE the election to Obama.

38 posted on 06/08/2008 11:43:24 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: kellynla

catholics voting for b. HUSSEIN is no different than Jews voting for b. HUSSEIN.....this closet muzzie will sell out both groups!!!!

39 posted on 06/08/2008 11:56:42 AM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: kellynla
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

Only if that voter believes that the pope isn't Catholic.

How a practical, practicing Catholic could support ANY candidate that belongs to the party of death is difficult to understand.

40 posted on 06/08/2008 11:57:30 AM PDT by CWWren (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself.)
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