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Catholics Debate Obama Vote
townhall.com ^ | June 06, 2008 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

Posted on 06/08/2008 10:22:04 AM PDT by kellynla

Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama? The question has been raised by a law professor at Pepperdine University, who went from being a Mitt Romney adviser to an Obama supporter. The question is further raised by the appearance of the angry Rev. Michael Pfleger, a longtime friend of the Democratic nominee who recently preached at Obama's former Trinity church.

Since this topic was recently a matter of talking heads' concerns, I was asked, in all seriousness, if Catholics can even vote. After all, war is bad. The death penalty is bad. Abortion is bad. John McCain supports the war on terror and capital punishment, but he is against abortion. Obama is antiwar and anti-death penalty but pro-abortion. So neither wins. Or does Obama win? "Can Catholics vote for anyone?" readers asked.

The answer is not up to me. The individual Catholic derives an answer through reflection on the demands of his or her conscience, informed by the teaching of the Church. Neither of those steps can be glossed over. And there can be no mistaking what responsibilities the Catholic voter faces.

E-mailers have also asked, as the following did: "You are, of course, aware that the Catholic Church also sees contraception as a sin as well. Since means never justify the ends, voting for a candidate that promotes contraception as an alternative to abortion is also wrong. Without researching, I assume all major candidates have no problem with contraception, therefore, no candidate should get Catholic votes by your line of reasoning. I'm sorry for this rant, but I do not like people playing politics with my religion."

It is true that no presidential candidate is going to call for a ban on contraception. That's not a serious consideration. But politics can never be wholly divorced from religion. Our religious morality necessarily informs our political judgments.

Pope Benedict XVI, in a speech to European politicians in 2006, offered some instruction for the Catholic conscience: "As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the principal focus of her interventions in the public arena is the protection and promotion of the dignity of the person, and she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable. Among these the following emerge clearly today: the protection of life in all its stages... recognition and promotion of the natural structure of the family... and the protection of the rights of parents to educate their children."

That "not negotiable" is not to be missed.

The thing about abortion is, it's not just any other issue. As serious as so many others are, abortion is not open to debate; it falls into the category of non-negotiable.

So can a Catholic vote for a politician who supports legal abortion? Providing guidance, Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver writes that a Catholic voter would "need a compelling, proportionate reason to justify it. ... It's the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life -- which we most certainly will. If we're confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed."

The Catholic Catechism instructs that a child "must be treated from conception as a person." Obama said that he would never want his daughters to be "punished" with the birth of an unplanned baby, as if it were a thing to be disposed of. As an Illinois state senator, he opposed legislation that would protect babies born alive in botched abortion attempts. He explained, "Whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a -- a child, a 9-month-old -- child that was delivered to term ... it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute." That would be a child, albeit not a 9-month-old child, whose life he dismissed. This is the Democrats' candidate for president.

Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn't just any issue. It's a grave offense and betrayal to protecting the most innocent human life. If you're a Catholic who honestly can see how Obama's election as president won't contribute to or compound that offence, go in peace. I don't see it. I don't see how anyone can see it. And so for those who don't get a vote, for those who have been murdered in the name of "choice," this Catholic will cast hers against him in November.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; abortion; catholics; catholicvote; election; prolife
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To: Salvation
You really want Obama to win, don’t you?

I'm no longer going to buy the latest of the crap sandwiches that the GOP has been putting up for the presidency every four years since 1988.

And I don't want Obama to win. So here's an idea: why don't conservatives figure out who really is the true conservative running and vote him/her instead of a geriatric psychotic egotist who has been anointed the heir apparent by the old boys in the GOP country club?

Think how much better our country would have been if real conservatives hadn't thrown their votes away voting for GWH Bush in 1992 and voted for Ross Perot instead.

51 posted on 06/08/2008 1:59:01 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: SumProVita
Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta. This will take votes away from McCain...and GIVE the election to Obama.

Here's a novelty for you: why not work for something instead of just against something?Instead of voting against Obama, why don't you actually vote for someone? Vote for a real conservative instead of just against Obama.

I threw my vote away in 1992 voting for GHW Bush, when if I were true to my principles I would have voted for Perot. That was an oppurtunity that many of us real conservatives itching to do the prudent thing wasted.

And don't be so cowardly. Dare to dream. Think how much better off we finally were because we followed the dreams of Ronald Reagan instead of the timorous compromising of Gerald Ford.

52 posted on 06/08/2008 2:06:22 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: Chucky is a girlie man; kellynla
Divorce and abandoning one’s crippled wife for a younger, hotter, rich girl also isn’t indicative of “good family values.”

And MacCain's history of serial adultery is all of a piece with his history of never ending betrayals and arrogant disregard of the people closest to him. Here's hoping all you MacCainiacs feel better when he plants a shiv between your ribs because he carries the magical "R" after his name.

53 posted on 06/08/2008 2:10:27 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: Salvation
Any Catholic who votes for Obama is automatically excommunicating themselves.

You know it's no longer the 14th century?

54 posted on 06/08/2008 2:12:41 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: kellynla; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Obama not only supports abortion at every phase of pregnancy, he also supports infanticide. Can a Catholic, who understands and supports Church teachings vote for Obama? Such a person would not even consider him. CINOs will continue to vote party lines.

Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


55 posted on 06/08/2008 2:35:48 PM PDT by NYer (Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Cuchulain

Are you talking about Lopez or the person who posed the question?


56 posted on 06/08/2008 3:00:53 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: E. Cartman
Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta.

And end up electing Barry Hussein Obama.

57 posted on 06/08/2008 3:05:20 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham
And end up electing Barry Hussein Obama.

You know, Nancy, it's really too bad you and your girlfriends can't actually fight for something.

58 posted on 06/08/2008 3:11:42 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: DarthVader
abortion: yes.

what's to debate?

59 posted on 06/08/2008 3:43:40 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Obama's a front man. Who's behind him?)
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To: socialismisinsidious

Regrettably, abortion is just a “speed bump” for some in consideration of the other social issues where the Democrats more or less align themselves with general Church teachings, such as care for the poor, food pantries, etc.

Of course, the motivations for this support are totally different — in one case, it is a natural outflow from the Faith, whereas in the other instance it’s just a means to political power by garnering as many votes as possible.

The government turning you over and shaking the money out of your pockets to redistribute “for the common good” is NOT charity and actually can be detrimental to its true spirit. A disturbing aspect of this happened once where I had heard a Catholic say, upon being approached by a solicitor from a well-known and respected institution, that “why should [he] give to {the charity}? That’s what my taxes are for!”


60 posted on 06/08/2008 5:13:27 PM PDT by mikrofon (Catholic LIFE Bump)
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To: mikrofon

This is from American Thinker:

Pope Benedict XVI (writing as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) give an equally stringent message to Catholics about liberation theology regarding the perversion of the Christian understanding of the “poor”:

“In its positive meaning the Church of the poor signifies the preference given to the poor, without exclusion, whatever the form of their poverty, because they are preferred by God…But the theologies of liberation…go on to a disastrous confusion between the poor of the Scripture and the proletariat of Marx. In this way they pervert the Christian meaning of the poor, and they transform the fight for the rights of the poor into a class fight within the ideological perspective of the class struggle.”

According to Pope Benedict’s instruction on liberation theology, our understanding of the virtues, faith, hope and charity are subjugated to the new Marxist order:

Faith becomes “fidelity to history.”

We are the ones we’ve been waiting for, to bring about the final fruition of the class struggle.

Hope becomes “confidence in the future.”

Yes, we can change the world; we don’t need God. Our collective redemption comes when we engage in the Marxist class struggle.

Charity becomes “option for the poor.”

All are not created equal. Special political privilege for the oppressed, socialism, will set us free.

It’s the dawn of a new age.


61 posted on 06/08/2008 5:14:24 PM PDT by Eva (CHANGE- the post modern euphemism for Marxist revolution.)
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To: kellynla

Since most RC’s I know are also union thugs, no question. Anyone not voting for Osamabamba will be sanctioned.


62 posted on 06/08/2008 5:46:38 PM PDT by j_tull (Massachusetts, the Gay State. Once leader of the American Revolution, now leading its demise.)
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To: j_tull

“Since most RC’s I know are also union thugs, no question?”

You might want to expand your group of acquaintances. LOL

Or is anyone who is a union member considered by you to be a “thug”.

“Anyone not voting for Osamabamba will be sanctioned?”

And just how would anyone know who voted for whom?

You are sober aren’t you, Sailor? ;-}


63 posted on 06/08/2008 5:54:38 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
Or is anyone who is a union member considered by you to be a “thug”. yes

And just how would anyone know who voted for whom? thuggery

You are sober aren’t you, Sailor? ;-}

as far as you know, absolutely. 8^)

64 posted on 06/08/2008 6:10:18 PM PDT by j_tull (Massachusetts, the Gay State. Once leader of the American Revolution, now leading its demise.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Lopez.


65 posted on 06/08/2008 6:28:52 PM PDT by Cuchulain ("...never treat with the enemy; never surrender to his mercy, but fight to the finish.")
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To: j_tull
Or is anyone who is a union member considered by you to be a “thug”. yes
And just how would anyone know who voted for whom? thuggery


well, at least you don't hid your bigotry & ignorance


how you managed to get in much less remain in the USN with that attitude & stupidity borders on criminal
glad I didn't have to serve with you...
you wouldn't have made 20 days much less 20 years.
66 posted on 06/08/2008 8:09:47 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: E. Cartman

I am voting FOR what is best in this situation. I live in the REAL world ....not the world of dreams.


67 posted on 06/09/2008 4:31:02 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: Gondring
Did you read the entire article? Non negotiable means something.
68 posted on 06/09/2008 7:16:30 AM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: SumProVita
I am voting FOR what is best in this situation. I live in the REAL world ....not the world of dreams.

So, you think you should follow whatever someone else dictates to you? How very brave. In your next life, I hope you come back as something with a spine.

69 posted on 06/09/2008 12:27:17 PM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: kellynla
Good heavens kellyn. How did you survive a day in Uncle Sam's canoe club? Your complete lack of a sense of humor, coupled your total inability to detect sarcasm must have made your Navy days fairly painful. I guessing you must have been a junior nuke officer, all brains, no sense. < /sarcasm > sheesh.
70 posted on 06/09/2008 1:47:06 PM PDT by j_tull (Massachusetts, the Gay State. Once leader of the American Revolution, now leading its demise.)
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To: socialismisinsidious
Did you read the entire article?

Yes. Did you?

Non negotiable means something

Of course it does. And the Pope said: "...she is thereby consciously drawing particular attention to principles which are not negotiable. Among these the following emerge clearly today: the protection of life in all its stages..."

Okay, so tell me how the death penalty and war don't fit into that non-negotiable category.

71 posted on 06/09/2008 3:57:28 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring

Catholic Doctrine states that war and capital punishment are justifiable under certain circumstances. I’m not going to fight theology with you. Look it up, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church if you are interested in learning more.


72 posted on 06/10/2008 6:35:01 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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