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Vegan girl, 12, 'has spine of 80-year-old'
Times Online ^ | 6/8/08 | Mark Macaskill

Posted on 06/11/2008 10:38:39 AM PDT by Dawnsblood

A girl of 12 brought up by her parents on a strict vegan diet has been admitted to hospital with a degenerative bone condition said to have left her with the spine of an 80-year-old.

Doctors are under pressure to report the couple, from Glasgow, to police and social workers amid concerns her health and welfare may have been neglected in pursuit of their beliefs.

The youngster, fed on a strict meat- and dairy-free diet from birth, is being treated at the city’s Royal Hospital for Sick Children. She is said to have a severe form of rickets and to have suffered a number of fractured bones. The condition is caused by a lack of vitamin D, which is needed to absorb calcium and is found in liver, oily fish and dairy produce.

Dr Faisal Ahmed, the consultant treating the child, said he believed the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet needed to be highlighted. “Something like this needs publicity,” he said. However, he refused to blame the parents, who are understood to be well-known figures in Glasgow’s vegan community: “We shouldn’t name and shame . Mum feels guilty about the whole thing and feels bad about it.”

Jonathan Sher, head of policy at Children in Scotland, said: “If the consequence of parental behaviour is physical, mental or emotional harm to a child, then the child protection system should become involved.” Bill Aitken, justice spokesman for the Scottish Conservatives, added: “If the youngster is coming to clinical harm, something must be done.”

In 2001, British vegans Hazmik and Garabet Manuelyan, from Staines, were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving daughter Arenai, 10 months, to death. She had been fed nothing but breast milk, raw fruit, vegetables and nuts.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: animalrights; childabuse; cpswatch; diet; dontexcerpt; dontsnip; health; needlesslyedited; needlesslyexcerpted; nutrition; postitall; rickets; uk; vegan; veganism; vitamind
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To: Reeses

Excellent analysis, and I agree completely.


101 posted on 06/11/2008 5:53:26 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Eepsy; Dawnsblood
they admitted starving daughter Arenai, 10 months, to death....

There must have been something else going on here.

A baby could easily thrive on breast milk alone for ten months. I suspect it was lack of breast milk that harmed this child.

102 posted on 06/11/2008 7:38:08 PM PDT by bluegirl
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To: DannyTN

Does that include Vegans ?


103 posted on 06/11/2008 7:53:47 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
"Does that include Vegans ?"

You can't murder Vegans. So you'd have to wait until they die of natural courses, and generally eating animals that have already died is a very bad idea.

104 posted on 06/12/2008 2:06:56 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: AnAmericanMother
They were the weediest, sickliest, pasty-skinned little kids you ever saw

What I see out here in the 'burbs is Mom became a "trendy" vegetarian and the kids follows suit to be like Mom. But kid only really eats high sugar crap diet. Kid gets fat.

105 posted on 06/12/2008 2:10:37 PM PDT by riri (A vote for McCain is giving up!)
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To: bluegirl
I bet the woman was so starved that her milk didn't come in properly.

You're supposed to drink a Guinness to get your milk to let down. I couldn't face it, but Belhaven Scottish Ale worked just as well!

Do vegans object to stout or ale? And if so, why?

106 posted on 06/12/2008 6:04:04 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: riri
Yikes.

Trendy mom isn't planning meals properly. The reason vegans often seem like they're practicing a religion is that planning their meals takes up so much of their time.

107 posted on 06/12/2008 6:05:01 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

“I presume you know the difference between raising an obese child and starving a child.”

Websters unabridged:
starve: to die or perish from lack of food or nourishment.

Vegan : a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet.

You must learn the difference between eating patterns and starving


108 posted on 06/12/2008 6:08:22 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Well, yeah, you’d have to. I eat meat and I doubt I get enough protein everyday.


109 posted on 06/12/2008 7:02:32 PM PDT by riri (A vote for McCain is giving up!)
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To: Rennes Templar
And you must learn that there is more than one type of definition.

You cited the lexical definition. Good. You can read.

Starvation also has a stipulated definition that involves the process of starving to death. Rickets is easily avoidable if you feed a child what we know to be a well balanced diet.

But it looks like you spent the day rebuilding your little straw man. I hope you didn't get any splinters. Maybe you didn't know what you were doing, so I'll explain it for you.

This issue has nothing to do with the parents wanting a healthy diet for their child. There are alternatives to the commonly accepted healthy diet (the four food groups, ever hear of them?). Veganism is a quasi-religious devotion, it is a moral choice, not a health choice when an entire community is formed around it.

But you chose instead to trot out the old, tired drone about obese American children. Well, Rennes, the issue wasn't obese American children until you erected that little straw child. You then began to pick that straw child apart by saying that the parents of the ‘starving’ child were perhaps ‘misguided,’ that they just wanted a healthy diet for their child. Well, you are wrong. They were forcing their religion on a child, most likely knowing they were going against the learning of centuries. And we can assume that they knew what they were doing, because to be a vegan requires a lot of research into what you eat.

You defended them by calling them ‘misguided,’ which is a defense of the moral-relativist Left.

I chastise them and believe they should be shamed just as those parents in Appalachia who force their children to play with rattle snakes based upon the line from scripture that says neither the serpent's bite nor fire will harm you if you have faith, who then say that the child must not have ‘had the spirit’ when they are bitten. Both types of adults are guilty of child abuse, if you ask me, and they both deserve to be shamed.

But hey, if you want to defend two parents who caused their little girl to have the skeletal degradation of an 80 year old, that's your ‘misguided’ understanding of what is happening with these diet fundamentalists.

110 posted on 06/12/2008 9:29:38 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

“This issue has nothing to do with the parents wanting a healthy diet for their child. There are alternatives to the commonly accepted healthy diet (the four food groups, ever hear of them?).”

It is precisely the four food groups paradigm that has resulted in the obesity epidemic, and other degenerative conditions in the West. We have the best medical system in th world, it is oft pronounced. Unfortunatley, best here equates with technology, which does not produce health, it produces ex post facto health management. I won’t bother you with actuarial ansd epidemiological data; you can google that yourself and see our many dismal rankings.

I chastise and shame those parents who allow obesity in their children much more than I would those who attempt an alternative to the “commonly accepted healthy diet”. Those who aquiesce to medical and food orthodoxy do so mostly out of ignorance.
I liken them to the blind followers of Obama. They so want to believe what they hear, just as those parents that stock their fridges with Fruit Loops and Coca Cola believe they are providing food. It’s so much easier to choose the path of least resisitance, and avoid the risks of challenging the status quo.


111 posted on 06/13/2008 8:25:41 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: Rennes Templar

Pathetic.


112 posted on 06/13/2008 8:37:15 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Ok, a personal question: this is not a joke, and I would like an honest answer: how many medications do you take?


113 posted on 06/13/2008 8:47:37 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: Rennes Templar
None.

Dude, do you NOT see that an obese child can still become healthy, but the child in this news article — which is STILL the subject of the conversation, NOT the straw man you keep rebuilding — is ruined for life? A child in Florida was starved — to death — by one of these insane diets.

Why in the hell would you hold the parents of an obese child up for more shame than those who are literally destroying the bodies of their children?

Did you ever consider that maybe your definition of ‘healthy’ is of a funadamentalist/Nazi narrowness? Being overweight is not necessarily a death sentence. And America is “obese” according to a federal definition. A few years ago nearly every adult male suddenly became 10% more overweight. I looked into it to find out how this could be. It turns out that the feds changed the acceptable weight category by 10 pounds. Voila, Americans are more overweight.

Are there overweight children? There sure are. Are there healthy, non-overweight children? There sure are. Either of these are far better than the child from this news article who has the spine of an 80 year old.

By the way, your question about meds is also pathetic. Now let me ask you, how long have you been starving your brain of the nutrients it needs to function properly with one of these 'alternative' diets?

114 posted on 06/13/2008 10:28:48 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

“Why in the hell would you hold the parents of an obese child up for more shame than those who are literally destroying the bodies of their children?”

That’s your problem. You don’t see the similarity. One’s effects are immediate, the other slow but damaging over a longer time. And obesity is obviously more pervasive. And the cause of both is ignorance.

I am impressed though by your not taking meds; most Americans are on some, in spite of their “healthy diets”.


115 posted on 06/13/2008 10:57:05 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: Rennes Templar
“...most Americans are on some...”

Where do you get these whacked-out statements?

I don't know of any adults that are on any type of medication, except one who is diabetic and a couple in their 90s.

By the way it was reported this week that the life-expectancy of we terribly obese, unhealthy Americans just increased. It was higher, and is even higher now, than many those nations who practice those ‘alternative’ diets you alluded to.

116 posted on 06/13/2008 11:06:36 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

More than half of Americans on chronic meds
Blood pressure, cholesterol drugs are most widely used, new study shows

updated 6:36 a.m. MT, Wed., May. 14, 2008

“TRENTON, N.J. - For the first time, it appears that more than half of all Americans are taking prescription medicines regularly for chronic health problems, a study shows.

The most widely used drugs are those to lower high blood pressure and cholesterol — problems often linked to heart disease, obesity and diabetes.

The numbers were gathered last year by Medco Health Solutions Inc., which manages prescription benefits for about one in five Americans.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24603120

I would proffer that if Mr. Russert had less of the “four food groups” and more “alternative diet” he would still be with us.

Life Expectancy rank
List by the CIA World Factbook (2007 estimates)
Countries above the US:

1 Andorra

2 Macau ( PRC)

3 Japan

4 San Marino

4 Singapore

6 Hong Kong ( PRC)

7 Gibraltar ( UK)[4]

8 Sweden

9 Australia

10 Switzerland

11 France (metropolitan)

12 Guernsey ( UK)

13 Iceland

14 Canada

15 Cayman Islands ( UK)

16 Italy

17 Monaco

18 Liechtenstein

19 Spain

19 Norway

19 Israel

22 Jersey ( UK)

23 Faroe Islands ( Denmark)

24 Greece

25 Austria

26 U.S. Virgin Islands ( US)

27 Malta

28 Netherlands

29 Luxembourg

30 Montserrat ( UK)

31 New Zealand

32 Germany

33 Belgium

34 Guam ( US)

34 Saint Pierre and Miquelon ( France)

36 United Kingdom

36 European Union

38 Finland

39 Isle of Man ( UK)

40 Jordan

41 Puerto Rico ( US)

42 Bosnia and Herzegovina

43 Bermuda ( UK)

44 Saint Helena ( UK)

45 United States


117 posted on 06/13/2008 1:44:35 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: Rennes Templar; Ghost of Philip Marlowe
Here's the deal.

Virtually all effects of obesity are reversible. A truly morbidly obese child might develop diabetes and be set up for heart or blood pressure problems down the road.

But the vast majority of overweight kids can slim down through diet and exercise and suffer no lasting effects, even if they were fat for years.

The harm to this child is irreversible and severe. Probably has heart and lung damage as well (the next step after muscle wasting).

So no, there's no comparison between this kid and your purported "epidemic of obesity" - which is largely a creation of the government and the media anyhow.

118 posted on 06/13/2008 2:10:46 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Rennes Templar
Rule No. 1: don't trust anything you read or see on MSNBC. They have an axe to grind, mostly that the U.S. is awful and horrible (except for their liberal friends).

Rule No. 2: view statistics from a drug company with a skewed sample and an interest in the outcome, with skepticism.

Rule No. 3: the United States is not homogenous, and general statistics tell you very little.

It's also important to note that heart problems and high blood pressure are largely hereditary and only exacerbated in some cases by obesity. You can be 10 pounds underweight and still have 'the high blood', or you can be 100 pounds overweight and perk along with 120/80 (with good genes).

I lost almost 40 pounds over the past year, and my blood pressure never changed (it was low to begin with - runs in the family. I was never as high as 120/80 except when I was pregnant.)

119 posted on 06/13/2008 2:17:18 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

“But the vast majority of overweight kids can slim down through diet and exercise and suffer no lasting effects, even if they were fat for years...”epidemic of obesity” - which is largely a creation of the government and the media anyhow”

Well let’s just load up our kids on more Big Gulps, Coke,
Twinkies and Fruit Loops. No harm will come! It’s all reversible! Damn the gov’t obesity propoganda! And we might as well stop exercising too and produce more video games!


120 posted on 06/13/2008 2:38:46 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

1.MSNBC was carrying an AP story on medication use. 2. Other studies confirm the same trend. 3. Many other countries are not totally homogenous, that is what statistics are for.

“It’s also important to note that heart problems and high blood pressure are largely hereditary”

This is exactly the lie big pharma would have us believe.
Low blood prssure indicates parasymapthetic dominance and possible hypoadrenia, easily corrected with mineral level modulation, particularly calcium and magnesium.


121 posted on 06/13/2008 3:00:22 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Cookies No Longer the Top Snack for Kids
In 1987, cookies were the most common snack for children under 6, and fruit ranked second. Today, that order has been reversed; fruit is the most common snack, and cookies are in second place.

In addition, kids today are less likely to consume carbonated soft drinks, ice cream, candy, cake and fruit juice as snacks than kids the same age did 20 years ago.

The information comes from the NPD Group, which tracks national eating trends. The number are based on food and beverage journals from 500 mothers in 1985-1987 and 600 mothers in 2005-2007. The women kept diaries for 14 days on all the foods and beverages consumed by under-age-6 children.

Sources:
USA Today June 11, 2008

I take it your kids are not in the fruit group.


122 posted on 06/13/2008 3:14:06 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: Rennes Templar
This "big pharma" stuff gets old.

My internist is an excellent physician and an honest man, and my family has known his family for almost 75 years. Is he a dupe of "big pharma", too, or is he just lying to me for the h*ll of it?

P.S. If you're going to use $5 words, you should be particularly careful to spell them correctly. Otherwise you just look silly.

Are you a chiropractor?

123 posted on 06/13/2008 3:17:52 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Rennes Templar
My kids are perfectly healthy, thank you, though not under 6. One is a BSA Venturer, she's in Costa Rica doing field work for her biology degree, hiking up and down mountains, she's slim as a reed and an expert swimmer, rider and dancer. The other is a USNSCC cadet who runs 50 miles a week and is a rock climber and mountain biker, wants to join the USMC (I wish them the joy of him!)

We all like fruit AND cookies, in moderation. Moderation is generally a good thing.

124 posted on 06/13/2008 3:22:24 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Rennes Templar
Yep, I checked the list of countries and not a-one that I was referring to was there.

But whatever. Go eat your carrot and feel like you're immortal. Everyone dies eventually. Regardless of what they eat. Kellogg and Graham all went through these fads, too. But whatever, you'll have to learn the lesson on your own.

As far as your kids are concerned, though. Don't starve them to death because it makes you feel righteous.

125 posted on 06/13/2008 3:44:17 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Veto!

I’m a vegan and my bone density scans are in the high range. And I donate platelets a couple times a month and my iron count is very high (it has to be higher than normal to donate platelets for an extended period of time). I don’t lecture anyone, I just eat what I want, and my health is very good. I haven’t even had a cold or flu/fever in seven or eight years.


126 posted on 06/13/2008 4:13:32 PM PDT by Crystal Cove
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To: Yaelle

I don’t get it either. Don’t most babies take breast milk for at least the first year, and isn’t most baby just raw fruits and vegetables that have been pureed, with maybe a little water added? I don’t think babies under a year usually eat nuts because of allergies, but otherwise I don’t see the problem. What should the baby have been fed?


127 posted on 06/13/2008 4:20:02 PM PDT by Crystal Cove
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To: massgopguy
Bruce Freidrick will spin this like a washing machine.

Isn't Freidrick the once who once said in a speech that he could support the bombing of a meat packing plant? I know he said something like that at least once...I heard Howie Carr play the clip or read a transcript of the comment.

128 posted on 06/13/2008 4:28:40 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Will the dancing Hitlers please wait in the wings? We're only seeing singing Hitlers.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

“This “big pharma” stuff gets old.’

Watch one hour of any major network or cable TV and you’ll see several drug ads in a short time. Yet there are hundreds and hundreds of cases of healings, recoveries and cancer regressions daily with alternative methods. How often do you hear about these through the MSM? (But when there is a case like the vegan girl, it’s everywhere.) And all the medical TV series. Pure propoganda.

If they were to shift their focus to alernative medicine, big pharma would collapse quickly. I am a DC, practicing for 25 years, have helped about 10,000 get out of the medical paradigm. You and your family are healthy. You have no clue about many people that come for alternatives, exasperated with medical mismanagement or failures with their health problems.

There is value in medicine, and good MD’s. My point is it’s
emphasis is on treatment, not prevention, the latter only getting lip service. Case in point, mammography screening for breast cancer. I have had dozens of patients told by their MD’s, “There’s something there. We’ll watch it and screen again in 6 months to see if it advances.” Absolutley no advice given, due to lack of training in, on how to reduce lympahtic congestion, or other causes, such as dairy consumption. To me this is not only shameful, it is criminal.


129 posted on 06/13/2008 11:10:44 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

My daughter is 17 yrs old, lacto-vegetarian all her life, never been vaccinated, constantly keeping the boys at bay, and studying voice training for opera in addition to her regular studies.

“Everyone dies eventually. Regardless of what they eat.”

Ah, sweet death.

It is your kind that inspired my tagline.


130 posted on 06/13/2008 11:19:41 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: AFPhys

placeholder bump


131 posted on 06/13/2008 11:38:53 PM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your God is!)
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To: Rennes Templar
Well, I knew you or someone close to you was a food nazi and that you were arguing from emotion, not intellect, thus the constant crutch of the straw-man argument.

As studies have proved, your daughter must keep a very close eye on her bones for the rest of her life, as she is in the high-risk group for osteoporosis.

And, as I said, if that's how she enjoys her life, and it was her choice, all power to her.

If obese people enjoy their lives, all power to them and the finger to the food nazis trying to shove their definition of the acceptable life upon others, and the finger to parents who starve their children to make themselves feel better, as did the parents in the news article, and which is still the real subject of this thread.

132 posted on 06/14/2008 6:22:54 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
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To: Grizzled Bear

LOL!


133 posted on 06/14/2008 6:29:14 AM PDT by defconw (Pray for Snow!)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Food nazi is itself an emotion-charged term. Using it does not bolster your “emotional argument case”

Fact: Osteoporosis is rare in many parts of the world, particiularly Asia, where animal protein consumption is much lower than in the West. Here, with our high animal protein and high dairy diets, osteoporosis is pervasive.

My daughter was no where capable of making any such lifestyle decison on her own, as children should not be making any such decisons or choices, but guided by their parents. I will admit the parents were at fault for the vegan daughter. But as I pointed out to AmericanMom, the MSM medical propoganda machine loves to headline these freak stories; never the (rapidly increasing) amazing cases of alternative interventions.


134 posted on 06/14/2008 8:05:49 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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