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Relax, liberals. You've already won
Salon ^ | June 10, 2008 | Michael Lind

Posted on 06/12/2008 3:11:39 PM PDT by forkinsocket

No matter who prevails at the ballot box in November, John McCain or Barack Obama, the four-decade-long conservative counterrevolution is over.

Now that Hillary Clinton has conceded the Democratic nomination to Barack Obama, the primaries are over and the general election campaign for the White House has begun. On the Republican side, however, the general election campaign began months ago -- and presumptive nominee John McCain has spent much of that time tacking toward the center. He praised multilateralism in a March 26 speech in Los Angeles and in general is trying to appear more like an Eisenhower Republican than a Reagan Republican. True, every four years all major-party presidential candidates race toward the center. But in the last decade, even during the seven-plus years of the Bush presidency, the center of American politics has moved considerably to the left. Whether Obama or McCain wins the White House, liberalism has already won the national debate about the future of the country.

For 40 years, the radical right tried to destroy the domestic and international order that American liberals created in the central decades of the 20th century. The people who are known today as "conservatives" are better described as "counterrevolutionaries." The goal of Barry Goldwater and the intellectuals clustered around William F. Buckley Jr.'s National Review was not a slightly more conservative version of the New Deal or the U.N. system. They were reactionary radicals who dreamed of a counterrevolution. They didn't just want to stop the clock. They wanted to turn it back.

Three great accomplishments defined midcentury American liberalism: liberal internationalism, middle-class entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, and liberal individualism in civil rights and the culture at large.

(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: conservatives; liberals
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1 posted on 06/12/2008 3:11:39 PM PDT by forkinsocket
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To: forkinsocket

It could still be McCain vs Hitlery.


2 posted on 06/12/2008 3:13:12 PM PDT by unkus
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To: forkinsocket

dat’s true.

i have a democrat-tv-watcher friend who would vote for fidel castro,

and she’s ok with mccccccain, if obama, her choice, loses.

si.


3 posted on 06/12/2008 3:14:33 PM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: forkinsocket
Beware Liberals.

4 posted on 06/12/2008 3:15:00 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: unkus
It could still be McCain vs Hitlery.

And the result would be the same.
5 posted on 06/12/2008 3:15:14 PM PDT by cripplecreek (I miss the days when only the politicians were unethical.)
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To: forkinsocket
Now that Hillary Clinton has conceded the Democratic nomination to Barack Obama

She Who Must Not Be Named has NOT conceded, She has only "suspended" Her campaign, and is retaining all Her delegates, in addition to Her 900+ FBI files.

6 posted on 06/12/2008 3:15:27 PM PDT by Old Sarge (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: forkinsocket

IT IS TIME TO UNLEASH HELL.


7 posted on 06/12/2008 3:18:09 PM PDT by roses of sharon ( (Who will be McCain's maverick?))
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To: roses of sharon

I think we are going to see a >small< wake-up call.


8 posted on 06/12/2008 3:22:36 PM PDT by unkus
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To: forkinsocket

Big government abroad, big government at home, socially moderate. Just like a 1960’s Democrat. Of course the modern mainstream GOP (neocons like McCain and Giuliani) is agreeable to an American-second internationalist like Lind.


9 posted on 06/12/2008 3:23:39 PM PDT by M203M4 (True Universal Suffrage: Pets of dead illegal-immigrant felons voting Democrat (twice))
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To: forkinsocket
For 40 years, the radical right tried to destroy the domestic and international order that American liberals created in the central decades of the 20th century. The people who are known today as "conservatives" are better described as "counterrevolutionaries." The goal of Barry Goldwater and the intellectuals clustered around William F. Buckley Jr.'s National Review was not a slightly more conservative version of the New Deal or the U.N. system. They were reactionary radicals who dreamed of a counterrevolution. They didn't just want to stop the clock. They wanted to turn it back.

What he's saying doesn't correspond to real electoral politics in the US. Sure, people may not like the UN or the Federal Reserve, but there was never any serious effort in electoral politics to get rid of them.

I'm also not sure that there was ever any "attack" on social security. Think tanks discussed alternatives to reform or replace or supplement. That's the sort of thing they're supposed to talk about.

Lind seems to have bought into the idea of a Reagan or Gingrich "revolution" which was never in the cards. One of the comments compares his view to "Rove's Permanent Republican Majority" theory. So now he's seized on a similar notion of the dawn of a new liberal era. It's the same dizzy, blurry-eyed exaltation in what may be a moment of success.

I guess liberals will have their moment, their chance, but that's different from saying that it's the end of an era.

10 posted on 06/12/2008 3:34:24 PM PDT by x
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To: forkinsocket
The republcrats Vs. the democrats, who cares.
11 posted on 06/12/2008 3:36:12 PM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: forkinsocket

“Three great accomplishments defined midcentury American liberalism: liberal internationalism, middle-class entitlements like Social Security and Medicare, and liberal individualism in civil rights and the culture at large.”

And with it we got an entire spectrum of society totally dependent on Government for their survival via food stamps, welfare, medical care, and public housing.

Along with the nanny state we gained a litigious society ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

Then there’s that whole removal of prayer from school thing........


13 posted on 06/12/2008 3:43:52 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: forkinsocket

I always feel slimy after visiting Salon.com. Is it just me?


14 posted on 06/12/2008 3:44:56 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Rome2000

“No self respecting CONSERVATIVE can vote that ticket, consequences be damned.”

Bologna.......... it’s an election...vote for the better (most conservative) of the two canidates and move on to the next election.

And no responsible adult....should be saying “conseqences be damned”......


15 posted on 06/12/2008 3:47:25 PM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: cripplecreek

Yep, no matter what, we are still going to get a socialist.
So be it, my vote will be missing this time.


16 posted on 06/12/2008 3:49:45 PM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: forkinsocket
But in the last decade, even during the seven-plus years of the Bush presidency, the center of American politics has moved considerably to the left. Whether Obama or McCain wins the White House, liberalism has already won the national debate about the future of the country.

Yes, Americans have gone liberal. They want free food, free sex, free drugs, free medical, free TV, free porn, free gas, free health care and all the at the same time as they sit on their fat asses and watch TV. America has destroyed itself in the past 10-15 years. We have destroyed the greatest Republic in the world in that time span, something the Soviets could not do in 60+ years. Basically, forget it. America that you used to know is gone. It is now the new liberal slimeball America. Conservatives are going to feel like and be treated like a North Korean dirt farmer. Its coming. Hang on for the ride. Because the garbage has just started to stink and the crap has flies all around it. America is rotten to the core. Maybe the Islumics had it right in the first place, America is RUN by Satan. America has forgotten God and its religion. America just reeks of liberal garbage. And, for if it is free, Americans will fall all over themselves to get THEIRS!!

17 posted on 06/12/2008 3:54:26 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (The ONLY way we get America back now is ARMED REVOLUTION AGAIN!)
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To: forkinsocket
Are liberals going to get their end to the WOT under McCain? No.

Are liberals going to get and end to the partial birth abortion ban under McCain? No.

Are liberals going to get the Bush tax cuts killed under McCain? No.

Corporate tax cuts? Yes, under McCain. A big NO under Obamanama.

There's some BIIIIIIG differences between the 2.

18 posted on 06/12/2008 3:54:50 PM PDT by what's up
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To: indylindy

I’m voting conservative. A democrat will win this state anyway so I see no point in wasting my vote on a RINO.


19 posted on 06/12/2008 3:57:09 PM PDT by cripplecreek (I miss the days when only the politicians were unethical.)
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To: HappyinAZ

I’d vote for Carter II if I thought it would bring in Reagan II in 4 years. Hillary and McCain are not stepping stones to electing a conservative next time.


20 posted on 06/12/2008 4:04:44 PM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
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To: forkinsocket
But in the last decade, even during the seven-plus years of the Bush presidency, the center of American politics has moved considerably to the left. Whether Obama or McCain wins the White House, liberalism has already won the national debate about the future of the country.

Bwahahaha. Politicians today run from the label of "liberal" like vampires from Van Helsing, and will continue to do so. There's no disputing that Americans grew sick of Republican control of Congress after years of Republican failure to live up to their principles, there's no doubt that Barack Obama is a young, charismatic candidate, and finally there's no doubt that Republicans lack any charismatic conservative candidates ready to take Obama on. But none of this means that most Americans have discovered any new love for liberalism - Obama is a cipher to most people, who will project whatever they want to see on any pretty, unknown face. They don't see him as a liberal (yet), and he'll angrily deny that he is a liberal.


21 posted on 06/12/2008 4:07:31 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: RetiredArmy

I hope liberals get the world they wish for. It will be hell, and there will be no one to bail them out.


22 posted on 06/12/2008 4:12:19 PM PDT by Clock King (Under revision...)
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To: forkinsocket
Mr. Lind certainly has to choose his measurements carefully before he engages in a rather embarrassingly juvenile triumphalism. In fact, nearly none of his benchmarks are (1) unaltered, or (2) exclusively liberal. I note with some amusement that he insists that the wicked right-wing blahblahblahs were out to "end" Social Security, that torchlight of liberal enlightenment that (ahem!) will fail by any measurement due to simple demographics. The attempt at privatization was not, as Lind quite simply lies, to end Social Security, but to save it. It was defeated. And now Social Security will fail, and guess who will end up blaming the eeeevil conservatives for liberal folly?

Liberal internationalism - his term, not mine - has resulted in a stifling bureaucracy, corrupt institutions, and a system of diplomacy whose principal function appears to be to apologize for and enable terror wars by proxy armies. Its failures are legion, its successes largely self-declared and of minimal impact to their nominal beneficiaries. It is internationalism that has failed, not conservatism, and its stinking corpse is still doing its best to drag the world down with it.

As for some grotesque abstraction Mr. Lind characterizes as "liberal individualism" there is nary a sign in the current rage among progressives to stamp out individualism of every sort through hate speech laws, legislated class warfare, political correctness, and codified racial intolerance.

All of this liberal self-congratulation has succeeded largely through redefinition and historical revisionism, not through any systemic rejection of a "counter-revolution" that exists - both rejection and counter-revolution - largely in the perfervid imaginations of liberal commentators. Mr. Lind may crow that neither of the Presidential candidates is a conservative but only by sidestepping the inconvenient fact that neither was their predecessor, nor his predecessor, nor his predecessor. In point of fact there has been relatively little good news for conservatives since the Gingrich Contract in 1994 which returned Congress to the Republicans for the first time in some 40 years.

I would, therefore, pose an alternate interpretation of these events that is far less flattering to Mr. Lind and his co-religionists. It is that liberalism has learned nothing from its failures and will continue stubbornly down the same failed paths that led it to its current passionate and defiant irrelevance. And the biggest certainty of all is that its adherents will continue to risk rotator cuff damage by patting themselves on the back while the country whose charge it is for them to lead suffers from their self-absorption, self-aggrandizement, and self-deception.

23 posted on 06/12/2008 4:19:39 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: RetiredArmy
Yes, Americans have gone liberal. They want free food, free sex, free drugs, free medical, free TV, free porn, free gas, free health care and all the at the same time as they sit on their fat asses and watch TV. America has destroyed itself in the past 10-15 years. We have destroyed the greatest Republic in the world in that time span, something the Soviets could not do in 60+ years. Basically, forget it. America that you used to know is gone. It is now the new liberal slimeball America. Conservatives are going to feel like and be treated like a North Korean dirt farmer. Its coming. Hang on for the ride. Because the garbage has just started to stink and the crap has flies all around it. America is rotten to the core. Maybe the Islumics had it right in the first place, America is RUN by Satan. America has forgotten God and its religion. America just reeks of liberal garbage. And, for if it is free, Americans will fall all over themselves to get THEIRS!!

Yep. The proof of your post is that the voters of South Carolina have voted to nominate Lindsey Graham to the U.S. Senate.

Again.

24 posted on 06/12/2008 4:40:05 PM PDT by PalmettoMason (Conservative "Long haired, maggot infested" dittoes!)
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To: Billthedrill
Are you a professional writer? Your writing is well put together.

One thing often assumed is that leftists don't want failure, that it's just an inevitable side effect of their misconceptions about the world. Actually that is a key goal, not for themselves but for others. They seek to raise themselves up by bringing those more successful down. Leftists want failure in America. It's much easier to succeed at failure than to succeed at prosperity.

25 posted on 06/12/2008 4:56:25 PM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
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To: Old Sarge
Her 900+ FBI files.

Yep. There may not be much about Hussein in those files but I'll bet there is plenty of garbage about many of the super delegates. Stuff they positively don't want their wives to find out about. Of course, Hillary being a moral upstanding citizen would never use the information for personal gain. </sarcasm>

26 posted on 06/12/2008 5:04:42 PM PDT by chainsaw ( No racist Muslims in the WH)
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To: HappyinAZ

Guess you have no self respect


27 posted on 06/12/2008 5:26:25 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: HappyinAZ

You should have been banned for using profanity and personally calling me names on another thread. I noticed the thread disappeared, but here you are.

I may get banned for calling you out, but you went over the top here. If I did that, I would have been banned.


28 posted on 06/12/2008 5:28:44 PM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: RetiredArmy
America has destroyed itself in the past 10-15 years. We have destroyed the greatest Republic in the world in that time span, something the Soviets could not do in 60+ years. Basically, forget it. America that you used to know is gone.

It is now the new liberal slimeball America. Conservatives are going to feel like and be treated like a North Korean dirt farmer. Its coming. Hang on for the ride.

The impending fall of the Republic is a direct consequence of Constitutional Amendments 19, 24, and 26, which gave the right to vote to Women, the landless, and those under 21.

These are exactly the people voting for this Marxist crypto-muslim, and now with Motor Voter, illegal aliens and morons are enfranchised as well, and its not going to get any better.

At some point in the near future, conservatives are going to be hit with the reality that its all over but the shouting, a corrupt socialist government coming and will be here to stay.

Unless the types of voters that elected Roosevelt 3 times, Jimmy Carter, Clinton twice, gave Gore the popular vote, made Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the House and have now propelled a racist muslim born Marxist to head their party have their right to vote taken away, this Republic is doomed.

The leftists quiet revolution has been under way for the last 90 years, the socialists have been steadily expanding the right to vote against the wishes, warnings, and advice of the Founders, and there is no going back.

The political class will conspire with those the Founders warned against giving the vote to in order to hold onto power.

Nothing short of revolution can stop it.

Intelligent hard working Americans with common sense are outnumbered by lazy drooling imbeciles, its all downhill from here, and nothing is going to change that equation.

As if the fact that Pelosi is Speaker of the House isn’t proof enough that the electorate has swung irreversibly to the other side.

IDIOCRACY is nigh.

29 posted on 06/12/2008 5:31:47 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: Clock King
I hope liberals get the world they wish for. It will be hell, and there will be no one to bail them out.

Quite true but my wife and I and my children and grandchildren will be living in hell. No thanks.

30 posted on 06/12/2008 5:33:27 PM PDT by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: what's up

I’m sincerely worried McCain will pass any socialist slop the Democrats send his way.

I agree that McCain is better as far as not letting the Hezb’Allah be equipped with nukes by the Iranians. But that’s setting the bar pretty low. Hell, I’m not certain if McCain disagrees with letting enemy POWs sue our soldiers in American courts, given his position on Guantanamo.


31 posted on 06/12/2008 5:36:23 PM PDT by JHBowden
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To: forkinsocket

32 posted on 06/12/2008 5:52:27 PM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Typical white person, bitter, religious, gun owner, who will "Just say No to BO in Nov.")
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To: Rome2000

“which gave the right to Women, the landless..”

“The landless” are citizens. Owning land does not make you a superior being. Asserting so is anti-American and will get you beat like a mule in most of the West, boy. See, we are not monarchists or aristocrats here like it seems you would prefer. “The landless” are of far, far greater worth than a snobbish, petulant, neo-aristocrat who believes that owning land makes them into a better “class” of people.

Take my advice. Go to Europe so you can play at being a princess because you sure don’t fit in here in America.


33 posted on 06/12/2008 6:09:53 PM PDT by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: Republicanus_Tyrannus
“The landless” are of far, far greater worth than a snobbish, petulant, neo-aristocrat who believes that owning land makes them into a better “class” of people.

That has nothing to do with the idea that "the landed" ought to be the only ones voting. Personally, I'm beginning to take a minor shine to resurrecting the idea myself. Basically, our forefathers only wanted landowners voting, because they were the ones paying the lions share of the taxes. Today, we're nearly at the tipping point where (50% + 1) of the electorate are net drains on the treasury, rather than net contributors. Once the non-contributors can consistently out-vote the contributors, then entire system will fail. Under what just and rational system could those who give nothing have power to direct the proceeds over those who actually did give? Should your dinner guests have the insurmountable right to tell you what you should buy for dinner?

Sorry, but elitism has nothing to do with it. It is pure logic that dictates that those who do not contribute ought not have superior voting power over the treasury over those who put the money there in the first place. The Founders were elitist, and neither are those who today are starting to appreciate the wisdom of that ancient little voting caveat.

34 posted on 06/12/2008 6:29:17 PM PDT by Teacher317 (Thank you Dith Pran for showing us what Communism brings)
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To: Teacher317

Errr, that should read: “the Founders were NOT elitist”, LOL


35 posted on 06/12/2008 6:30:21 PM PDT by Teacher317 (Thank you Dith Pran for showing us what Communism brings)
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To: Teacher317

Bullcrap. Taking the franchise from fellow citizens due to finances or having land makes us into a class-based, European-aping aristocracy. That is pure fighting words and no manner of sophistry about the pure wisdom of the Founding Fathers (who also thought that leeches were great medicine and who tolerated slavery) is going to excuse making fellow citizens into the slaves of those who own land.

The Founders had some baggage in their outlook from jolly old monarchistic England and one of the piles of filthy luggage was the idea of landed aristocracy. The other was slavery. They were wrong on both those counts and I will not be spoken of as if I were a subhuman because you and Rome2000 believe that since I have no land I have no rights.

You’re wrong as Hell and he is too.


36 posted on 06/12/2008 6:39:59 PM PDT by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: RetiredArmy

Let’s wait a few more weeks before we bury America.

After the five Marxists on the SC rule that we have no right to bear arms, Americans will be given the choice to surrender their weapons, get on their knees and be fitted for chains, or open fire.

You did request to be born in interesting times, yes?


37 posted on 06/12/2008 6:53:17 PM PDT by sergeantdave (Governments hate armed citizens more than armed criminals)
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To: Republicanus_Tyrannus

Open a history book genius


38 posted on 06/12/2008 11:41:49 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: Rome2000
"Open a history book genius"

Get the hell out of America, Princess. We kicked your sorry king-worshipping asses out in the 1700's and you have no goddamned place here any more. The last of your kind were whipped in the woodshed by President Jackson when the "landed" neo-aristocrats like yourself were made to spread'em and the anti-American restrictions on the franchise were repealed.

Any who fantasize about stealing the franchise from the People deserve no respect. You're not supposed to be here, pumpkin. This is Free Republic, not Enslaved Aristocracy.

Get out and stay out, Princess. You're not one whit removed from any other slaver.

39 posted on 06/13/2008 5:55:18 AM PDT by Republicanus_Tyrannus
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To: sergeantdave

No,actually I told my wife several times over the years that I was born about 150-200 years too late.


40 posted on 06/13/2008 6:31:25 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (Even if he wins, obama WILL NEVER BE MY PRESIDENT OF MY COUNTRY!!!)
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To: indylindy

What the matter,....you can call me and anyone else all kinds of names....but can’t take it?

Like my Mom always said...”if you dish it out...be prepared to get it back”...an you have a nice day!


41 posted on 06/13/2008 9:25:18 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: Rome2000

Actually, fighting back against a nem caller...IS demonstrating self respect. Have a lovely day!


42 posted on 06/13/2008 9:26:39 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: Rome2000

Actually, fighting back against a name caller...IS demonstrating self respect. Have a lovely day!


43 posted on 06/13/2008 9:27:01 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

I did not call you names. So don’t lie. You made a personal attack using profanity. I don’t know why you are still here. You shouldn’t be.

I hope your day is a miserable as your personality.


44 posted on 06/13/2008 11:05:39 AM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: indylindy

So not only do you to to bully others with name calling and snide remarks, you then LIE about it. You called me all the names I listed..and have been calling others them as well. Perhaps it’s the only thing you’re good at since real political discussion seems beyond you.

If you can’t take it....don’t dish it out! Have a truely lovely and God filled day!


45 posted on 06/13/2008 11:24:30 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

I know you won’t have a God filled day, no one could who uses profanity like a member of DU, so don’t pretend. Others know about you.

Somehow that thread disappeared. It did after I reported abuse. I myself, would have left the thread and pulled you.


46 posted on 06/13/2008 11:33:28 AM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: indylindy

Be careful not to fall off that high and mighty horse of yours....”others” have written me about YOU....they are watching YOU...Have a God filled and blessed day...for God even blesses the asses amoung us. No profanity; just a fact!

If you can’t take it...don’t dish it out!


47 posted on 06/13/2008 11:51:36 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

I feel very sorry for you. Your post is a reflection of your problem.

Run along and use your profanities with someone else.

One only needs to check my posting history. They won’t find profanity used on other posters. Even those that I disagree with.


48 posted on 06/13/2008 11:58:50 AM PDT by dforest (I had almost forgotten that McCain is the nominee. Too bad I was reminded.)
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To: Republicanus_Tyrannus
Property owners=taxpayers. The idea that only property owners should have the vote was based on the idea that only the people who paid the taxes should be allowed to elect the people who decided what was done with their tax money. Today, we have welfare recipients voting for the RAT who promises them the most welfare, which is how the RAT party exists.

Calling people royalists and slave owners because they think the people who pay the taxes should have control of their own money just shows your ignorance, and your name-calling and insults just reveals your nasty personality. Try reading a book instead of calling people names.

I'll check back and see what names you call me.

49 posted on 06/13/2008 12:11:24 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: indylindy

You run along and check the definition of profanity. “Ass” and or “jerk” doesn’t fall in that definition!

Like I said...your “posting history” shows that you do a lot of name calling ...and make a lot of snide remarks..about McCain or any poster you disagree with......and when you get it back...you cry like the little baby!

If you can’t take it...don’t dish it out!

Have a lovely and God filled day!


50 posted on 06/13/2008 12:16:09 PM PDT by HappyinAZ
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