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Scientists calculate the exact date of the Trojan horse using eclipse in Homer
Telegraph ^ | 6/24/08 | Roger Highfield

Posted on 06/24/2008 11:49:01 AM PDT by LibWhacker

The exact date when the Greeks used the Trojan horse to raze the city of Troy has been pinpointed for the first time using an eclipse mentioned in the stories of Homer, it was claimed today. # The truth about an epic tale of love, war and greed

Scientists have calculated that the horse was used in 1188 BC, ten years before Homer in his Odyssey describes the return of a warrior to his wife on the day the "sun is blotted out of the sky".

The legend of the fall of Troy is mentioned in Virgil and Homer's poems but it is believed to be based on truth and the exact date has been the subject of much debate.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: archaeoastronomy; catastrophism; date; eclipse; godsgravesglyphs; horse; odysseus; odyssey; trojan; trojanwar

1 posted on 06/24/2008 11:49:01 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 06/24/2008 11:50:26 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: LibWhacker

Well, what’s the date?


3 posted on 06/24/2008 11:51:15 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: Rudder

1188 BC. It was a Tuesday.


4 posted on 06/24/2008 11:54:24 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: LibWhacker

I doubt there was a real Trojan horse, tho I bet there really was a Trojan war.

Schlieman used the Iliad as a guide to locating the lost city and it proved accurate but that doesn’t mean every single thing in it is the gospel.


5 posted on 06/24/2008 11:55:20 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: LibWhacker

6 posted on 06/24/2008 11:55:38 AM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: Rudder

April 16, 1178 BC. He would have left on the 15th, but he had to stop at H&R Block.


7 posted on 06/24/2008 11:55:50 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: LibWhacker
Scientists calculate the exact date of the Trojan horse using eclipse in Homer

No. The story states that an exact date was calculated for Odysseus's return (April 16, 1178), but not for the date of the Trojan Horse. Then they counted backwards ten years to get the date of the attack on Troy, but they don't have an exact date for that.

Can't the headline writers at least try to read the article?

8 posted on 06/24/2008 11:57:26 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: yarddog
that doesn’t mean every single thing in it is the gospel.

As the Goddess Aphrodite turns up at one point and starts whacking people with a broadsword, I think you are probably onto something there.

9 posted on 06/24/2008 11:57:55 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra

Sorry, forgot the smiley :0)


10 posted on 06/24/2008 11:59:28 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: LibWhacker
The legend of the fall of Troy is mentioned in Virgil and Homer's poems but it is believed to be based on truth and the exact date has been the subject of much debate.

I am not an astronomer, nor do I have an ephemeris handy to check this out, but since there is a 10-year "difference" here, and since eclipses occur every year, I don't see the debate ending any time soon.

Then there's the definition of "date". The calendar used at the time? The Julian Calendar? The Gregorian calendar? modern "adjusted" calendar?

What?

11 posted on 06/24/2008 11:59:46 AM PDT by Publius6961 (You're Government, it's not your money, and you never have to show a profit.)
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To: LibWhacker

“...Virgil and Homer’s poems...”

They just don’t write ‘em like that anymore.


12 posted on 06/24/2008 12:00:52 PM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: yarddog

“I doubt there was a real Trojan horse...”

Somebody had to think up that trick. Why not somebody who was actually trying to solve the problem?


13 posted on 06/24/2008 12:03:39 PM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: yarddog

I suspect there really was a Trojan horse, though not something on the Hollywood scale.

Modern archaeology has uncovered much documentary evidence that the Trojan War really did take place - in addition, a Trojan Horse really wouldn’t have taken any new technology that wasn’t used in the siege engines and wagons of the day.


14 posted on 06/24/2008 12:05:45 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

It was....drum roll please......APRIL 1st!


15 posted on 06/24/2008 12:09:06 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Publius6961
...since eclipses occur every year,....

They were looking for a solar eclipse that would have been visible in Ithaca (not the "City of Evil" one!) which narrows the field considerably. And, if you had read the article, you would have noted that a number of planetary positions were figured into the mix.

As for the exact meaning of "April 16, 1178 B.C.", what's the problem there?

16 posted on 06/24/2008 12:11:55 PM PDT by thulldud (Congress does not want answers. They want scapegoats. (andy58-in-nh))
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To: massgopguy

I think it was April 15th - because the Trojans got raped... which is why it’s now the annual tax day/raping. :P


17 posted on 06/24/2008 12:12:46 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Publius6961
Then there's the definition of "date". The calendar used at the time? The Julian Calendar? The Gregorian calendar? modern "adjusted" calendar?

If my astronomical calculator is correct, there was a new moon on April 16, 1178 BC Julian.

18 posted on 06/24/2008 12:13:06 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: yarddog

“Schlieman used the Iliad as a guide to locating the lost city and it proved accurate but that doesn’t mean every single thing in it is the gospel.”

Was so! And Apollo will punish you for saying differently!


19 posted on 06/24/2008 12:14:26 PM PDT by DesScorp
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To: LibWhacker

Eclipses, Geeks,....

and I never understood why they fought over Trojans, when you could get them for free at the Ilium Health Clinic...


20 posted on 06/24/2008 12:15:54 PM PDT by Adder (typical bitter white person)
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To: Spktyr

Didn’t Schliemann discover that there were seven layers of ruins at the site of Troy, not just those of one city?

My favorite Iliad moment: the gullible citizens of Troy have dragged the wooden horse past the city gates. A man named Laocoon shouts “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!” and hurls his spear at the horse. Its impact makes the hidden Greeks’ weapons rattle. That night, for attempting to thwart the will of the gods, Zeus sends giant serpents to strangle Laocoon and his sons.

Maybe Laocoon should have shouted,

“Beware of gifts bearing Greeks!”

;^)


21 posted on 06/24/2008 12:27:08 PM PDT by elcid1970 (My cartridges are dipped in pig grease.)
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To: LibWhacker

“Scientists calculate the exact date of the Trojan horse using eclipse in Homer”

So an eclipse used a Trojan Horse that was inside Homer?


22 posted on 06/24/2008 12:30:54 PM PDT by Hacklehead (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the hippies.)
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To: Hacklehead
So an eclipse used a Trojan Horse that was inside Homer?

Silly. Home was inside his Ford Eclipse, inside the Trojan horse.

23 posted on 06/24/2008 12:40:29 PM PDT by 11Bush
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To: elcid1970

Yeah, there’s at *least* 7 layers of ruins.

Not exactly unexpected - many current European capitals have a similar “foundation”. The inhabitants would annoy someone, the city would get torched, someone would rebuild the place, and the cycle would repeat.

Athens got burned, what, five times that we know of?


24 posted on 06/24/2008 12:41:26 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Publius6961

Solar eclipses are very specific in their timing and their location. They don’t happen every year in the same place.


25 posted on 06/24/2008 1:08:13 PM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what an Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: yarddog

Some folks think the Trojan Horse was a siege tower. It would have been pretty unique for the period.


26 posted on 06/24/2008 1:10:25 PM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a Conservative. But I can vote for John McCain. If I have to. I guess.)
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To: LibWhacker

Damn! I’m glad we finally got that worked out. Now we have to move on to the weather/wind calculations for the parting of the Red Sea. These scientists are sure improving the world, aren’t they!


27 posted on 06/24/2008 1:17:25 PM PDT by guppas (Kick their ass -- Take their gas!)
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To: LibWhacker

If its an account that is ex-biblical then it is considered to be true and free from translation errors.

If its a biblical account it is considered purely fiction created by poor nomads who wanted to make themselves feel important and all accounts have no facts or are subject to eons of translation errors.


28 posted on 06/24/2008 1:20:56 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Publius6961
and since eclipses occur every year, I don't see the debate ending any time soon.

Not in the same place, and not necessarily total. For example, we're going to get a total eclipse here in the continential US in 2017, and our last one was in 1979.

29 posted on 06/24/2008 1:32:48 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Spktyr

They raped Thrace thrice.


30 posted on 06/24/2008 1:50:05 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: massgopguy

a trojan was found in homer’s eclipse? d’oh!


31 posted on 06/24/2008 1:59:05 PM PDT by Disciplinemisanthropy (...and that, people, is what grinds my gears.)
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To: LibWhacker

I always thought the Trojan Horse reference was a metaphor for an earthquake. If an eclipse occurred it would mean considerable stress on existing faults. I can’t find a reference yet but I remember reading about the Greeks referring to earthquakes as “thundering hooves or a stampede of a horse herd”.


32 posted on 06/24/2008 2:20:11 PM PDT by Polynikes (Yo, homie. Is that my briefcase?)
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33 posted on 06/24/2008 4:22:18 PM PDT by cruise_missile ('')
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To: Polynikes

Interesting since Poseidon, the God of the Sea was also associated with horses and earthquakes.


34 posted on 06/24/2008 4:28:14 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: null and void

Thanks!

Ancient Eclipse Found in “The Odyssey,” Scientists Say
National Geographic News | 6-23-2008 | Richard A. Lovett
Posted on 06/23/2008 5:36:32 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2035358/posts


35 posted on 06/24/2008 9:53:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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Thanks null and void. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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36 posted on 06/24/2008 9:53:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: KarlInOhio

Although the Mayan calendar goes deep into the past, the early events it records are legendary. The earliest historical date known is 28 May 585 BC, the battle between the Medes and the Lydians that was interrupted by an eclipse predicted by Thales of Miletus.


37 posted on 06/24/2008 11:46:19 PM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: null and void

I would have said:

The earliest historical event that can be accurately dated was the battle between the Medes and the Lydians on 28 May 585 BC. We know the exact date because it was interrupted by a solar eclipse that Thales of Miletus predicted.


38 posted on 06/24/2008 11:52:27 PM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Blast from the Past.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

Thanks LibWhacker.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


39 posted on 05/20/2012 6:14:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Whoops, that was supposed to be the update message.


40 posted on 05/20/2012 6:18:40 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Note: this topic is from 6/24/08. Thanks LibWhacker.



41 posted on 05/20/2012 6:19:03 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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42 posted on 03/01/2013 5:36:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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43 posted on 03/01/2013 6:22:13 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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