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DC vs. Heller Ruling to be Issued June 26
Supreme Court ^

Posted on 06/25/2008 7:33:33 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger

The DC gun ban case ruling will be issued tomorrow, Thursday, June 26. Stay tuned!


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: banglist; dcvsheller; guns; heller; judiciary; scotus; secondamendment
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To: CindyDawg
> The SC rotates...no decision...liberal decision...conservative decision. Tomorrow is their conservative day.

That's interesting! Is it true? -- I never noticed such a pattern, but then again, I wasn't looking for it. Thanks C-Dawg.

101 posted on 06/25/2008 11:19:12 AM PDT by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: Pistolshot
Now, as far as the no death penalty in the case of rape of a child, I believe the ruling is correct. Nothing short of murder should carry the death penalty

I'm happy for you that you think that.

What in the Constitution do you think supports that value judgement?

102 posted on 06/25/2008 11:22:02 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Cut the birth certificate crap! It's the communism, stupid!)
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To: AngryJawa
"Think globally, act locally..."

Repeat as necessary.

It works for the commies.

103 posted on 06/25/2008 11:23:44 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: archy
The current population estimate is around 304,434,774. Accordingly, a period of intensity equal to that in Finland in 1918 could be expected to result in a number of at least somewhere around 30,443,477 fatal casualties. If, of course, it only lasts for four months....

Archy, you are off by a factor of 10 on those deaths. You might want to double check that math. 3 million.

104 posted on 06/25/2008 11:28:30 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Beware the fury of the man that cannot find hope or justice.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

It’s white knuckle time!

SCOTUSBlog is sticking with their prediction that Scalia will write the majority opinion. From their lips to God’s ear!


105 posted on 06/25/2008 11:31:34 AM PDT by Redcloak ("Yes, I have been drinking. Why do you ask?" #1 on the list of "things heard from McCain voters")
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To: Jim Noble
What in the Constitution do you think supports that value judgement?

It's call proportionality of punishment.

Is the death penalty warranted in a jay-walking incident? How about DUI? How about someone smoking a joint in their home?

Pretty drastic, right?

Now, the taking of a life deserves the response that society as a whole is willing to accept, not what you personally think should happen.

In this case the proportionality is incorrect, and the SCOTUS ruled partially based on that.

Now a question for you. Where is the death penalty warranted by your values?

106 posted on 06/25/2008 11:37:04 AM PDT by Pistolshot (When you let what you are define who you are, you create divisiveness.)
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To: MrB
And you can guarantee that the standard of “unnecessary burden” won’t be nearly as low as it is for abortion on demand.

If they looked at the 2nd the same way as the unwritten right to abortion, the Government would be providing handguns to those that couldn't afford them.

107 posted on 06/25/2008 11:39:22 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: El Gato
Maybe the sear on your mouse is worn? The BATFE will be showing up at your door for unlawful possession of an unregistered, untaxed, full auto speech device.

Brilliant. Post of the Day.

108 posted on 06/25/2008 11:41:37 AM PDT by LTCJ (God Save the Constitution - Tar/Feathers '08)
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To: TC Rider

I can’t afford an Anzio Ironworks 20mm with 18-25x55mm Nightforce glass. Is there a government grant or affirmative action program that would give me a low cost/no cost load for one?


109 posted on 06/25/2008 11:43:21 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Pistolshot
Now, as far as the no death penalty in the case of rape of a child, I believe the ruling is correct. Nothing short of murder should carry the death penalty. As abhorrent as the crime was to the child, there is not a death involved.

They should have also ruled, No death penalty for family members who kill the rapist of their children!

110 posted on 06/25/2008 11:44:49 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Poison Pill; rahbert

I saw a Cato blog post yesterday saying that Scalia hadn’t written any majority opinions this session, even though he has sided with the majority in this session, and even though the workload of writing of majority opinions is typically evenly allocated. Sounds like Cato is predicting that, yes, Scalia is writing the majority.


111 posted on 06/25/2008 11:48:16 AM PDT by sanchmo
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To: Dead Corpse

Try AFDV (Aid to Families with Dependant Vulcans)


112 posted on 06/25/2008 12:02:54 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Poison Pill; Mr. Mojo
The ban will be struck down, but it won’t be a clean ruling. ....or not nearly clean enough, anyway.

"That would be my guess. We'll be in a better position but just slightly. If they strike the ban but allow permits, big cities will be like NYC. Technically legal but impossible to get. "

The Court hasn't been asked to rule on a permit system - because there isn't one in DC except for those who owned guns prior to the '76 ban (which isn't at issue). The Court has simply been asked to rule on whether DC (the government of which derives 100% of its authority from the Congress) can ban an entire class of firearms, and whether it can mandate the disassembly of long guns in a person's home.

My predictions:

1) 6-3 or 7-2 that the Circuit Court decision is affirmed, at least in part. Specifically, the DC bans will be overturned, and the 2nd Amendment will be ruled to protect an individual right.

2) The limits of that right (i.e. the right to keep arms) will NOT be spelled out in very great detail, except possibly in the dicta (commentary which is instructive of a Justice's thoughts, but useless as precedent) of the opinion writer and any justices who concur but wish to write their own opinion.

3) The Court will NOT specify a level of scrutiny to apply toward other firearms legislation by the federal government - it'll just say that this ban is so far-reaching as to violate the 2nd with ANY level of scrutiny.

4) The issue of whether the 14th Amendment incorporates the 2nd against states and local governments will NOT be decided, nor will the Constitutionality of the '86 ban on new full autos.

5) The Court won't even touch upon the definition of "bear" (as in "the right of the people to keep and bear arms...), as this is not a case regarding the right to carry a firearm.

I also predict that if the decision strikes down the DC ban and calls the "right to keep" an individual right, you'll have 2 lawsuits filed fairly soon (meaning within a few months):

1) A suit against Chicago (or, perhaps, Morton Grove, IL, which has MUCH less money to fight a suit than Chicago), claiming that its ban is just as unconstitutional as the DC one, except this time attempting to obtain incorporation of the 2nd against the states and their subdivisions, just as has been done with other rights guaranteed by the BOR. FYI, if the 2nd is ruled to protect an individual right here in Heller, I don't see how any state or locality can win, so we might have a bunch more to celebrate in a couple of years.

and

2) A suit in the DC Ciruit against the BATFE for its failure to issue a tax stamp to some upstanding citizen for a full auto manufactured after 5/19/1986. The ideal case would be brought by an ex-Special Forces soldier who is retired, who has a perfectly clean criminal record, and who owns a virtually identical firearm manufactured before the ban. On a strictly textual/logical reasoning basis, the DC ban and the '86 full auto ban are functionally identical and, therefore, equally bad law. It SHOULD be overturned...but the Supreme Court is very political and this is a highly emotional issue (for idiot blissninnies who don't understand guns, and who don't know that the only crime committed with a legally registered full auto was committed by an off-duty cop). We SHOULD win that case, thereby allowing anyone from an NFA state to pay the $200 tax and buy a brand-spanking-new full auto (or 10), but that is far, far less certain than even the Heller case (which is no gimme by any means).

Pray HARD for a good result tomorrow!!!

113 posted on 06/25/2008 12:03:48 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (An ex-citizen of the Frederation dedicated to stopping the Obomination from becoming President)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

I hope they don’t disappoint. After the Gitmo & Child Rape decisions, I’m not so sure.


114 posted on 06/25/2008 12:04:50 PM PDT by csvset
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To: Mr. Silverback
> there will be no stopping the gun grabbers.

Of course you can stop a gun grabber.
Just make sure your gun is bigger.

115 posted on 06/25/2008 12:06:50 PM PDT by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: sanchmo
Scalia penned this one released today.

I guess we'll see who gets the Heller one tomorrow.

116 posted on 06/25/2008 12:07:23 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Dead Corpse
"Think globally, act locally..."

The local ramifications of any potential "unpleasantness" may just make Iraqi tribal/sectarian politics look like a pillow fight. Weird stuff happens when people have to pick sides.

117 posted on 06/25/2008 12:09:10 PM PDT by AngryJawa ({IDPA, NRA} All Hail John Moses Browning)
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To: TC Rider

Cool. I’m only doing this for my Ammoholics Anonymous meetings. “1 round, 1 magazine, 1 box, 1 crate”.


118 posted on 06/25/2008 12:11:20 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: AngryJawa

I’m a fairly secular person, but even I’ve been saying prayers, attending church, pouring libations, and rubbing my lucky rabbits foot for a good ruling.


119 posted on 06/25/2008 12:13:45 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Pistolshot
Where you responding to another person, because your response has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted to you. In addition, the second paragraph of your post, speaking of restraint and contemplation of punishment, would seem to be pretty ludicrous when discussing the idea that a person should get a de facto sentence to be shivved to death in a prison shower.

So, to save you time, I'll just repost the question I asked you, which is a question I would ask whether I approved of this SCOTUS decision or not:

How is it cruel and unusual punishment to execute a criminal with lethal injection for child rape, but appropriate (and not cruel ) to subject the same guy to a punishment where he will suffer months or years of physical abuse, rape or being murdered with a shiv, possibly all three?

I look forward to your answer.

120 posted on 06/25/2008 12:18:14 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (It's not conservative to accept an inept Commander-in-Chief in a time of war. Back Mac.)
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To: Pistolshot

Regardless of whether you agree with the Louisiana law or not, the text of the Eighth Amendment prohibits cruel or unusual punishment, not harsh or drastic punishment. It says nothing about proportionality of punishment, and certainly does not prevent capital punishment for rape of any sort. Crimes like robbery, burglary, and, yes, rape were capital crimes in most, if not all, of the country when the Eighth Amendment was drafted and ratified, and for many decades afterwards.

Now, the Supreme Court has, since then, imposed its own values onto the text of the Eighth Amendment to make it mean something it doesn’t, but that’s no more legitimate than any other activist, “living constitutionalist” decision.

If any value judgment is to be made as to what crimes warrant death in Louisiana, it is to be made by the Louisiana legislature, not by the US Supreme Court.


121 posted on 06/25/2008 12:20:32 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Duty, Honor, Country.)
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To: An Old Man

You’re not Old - You’re BOLD.

Semper Fi to you as well, sir. And God bless you.


122 posted on 06/25/2008 12:49:34 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By any means necessary.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Ammoholics Anonymous

I'm a junkie and I need help...

...picking up all the brass and wheelweights I can find. 8^)

123 posted on 06/25/2008 1:03:50 PM PDT by AngryJawa ({IDPA, NRA} All Hail John Moses Browning)
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To: AngryJawa
You just get done putting away the Hoppes #9 and bore brush, it seems like the weekend is here again with more lead flying down range.

Instead of finding a cure, maybe we should just learn to live with our disease... ;-)

124 posted on 06/25/2008 1:41:10 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Buy me an AR-15, extra clip, some ammo, and a 15+1 round Glock and I’ll pay you when I get the money. :-P


125 posted on 06/25/2008 1:53:48 PM PDT by xrp (RON PAUL! To HELL with neo-cons!)
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To: xrp
Maybe Scalia's opinion writeup will include language to finally settle the Magazine vs. Clip, .45ACP vs. 9x19mm, and AR vs AK cases as well.
126 posted on 06/25/2008 2:00:02 PM PDT by AngryJawa ({IDPA, NRA} All Hail John Moses Browning)
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To: BOBWADE

Ping for later reading


127 posted on 06/25/2008 3:36:33 PM PDT by BOBWADE
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To: Pistolshot
Now, as far as the no death penalty in the case of rape of a child, I believe the ruling is correct. Nothing short of murder should carry the death penalty

Your opinion, which you are entitled to. The Court however is supposed to base their rulings on the law and most especially upon the Constitution. The Court said, and you seem to feel as well, that the punishment is disproportionate. But the Constitution's 8th amendment doesn't ban disproportionate punishment, only cruel and unusual punishment. What is "disproportionate" is a matter for legislatures, not Justices, to determine. As far as "unusual" goes, the only reason no one has been executed in over 40 years for a crime not involving a dead victim, is that the Court itself banned the death penalty for rape back in 1977. Even before that it wasn't used often, but often enough not to be unusual. It sure as heck isn't cruel. The way execution are conducted today, it's the same sort of method millions use to put down their cherished animal companions and pets to *prevent* a really horrible death, such as by kidney failure, distemper, etc. The Court has inserted its own opinions as though they were the legislative representatives of the people.

128 posted on 06/25/2008 4:01:09 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: The Pack Knight
I expect Kennedy to write the majority opinion, with Scalia and/or Thomas writing their own concurrances.

If Kennedy writes the Majority opinon, it will be 4-5 against against overturning the DC laws, and Thomas or Scalia might write the dissenting opinion. It might still be found to be an individual right, but it will be declared subject to "reasonable" regulations, and the DC laws termed "reasonable".

129 posted on 06/25/2008 4:04:46 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Pistolshot
The force of law needs to be tempered not with emotion, but with restraint and careful contemplation of punishment.

But by legislators, not by unelected Judges. Otherwise it's the rule of Judges, not the rule of law.

130 posted on 06/25/2008 4:11:57 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: DoughtyOne
It is also the majority opinion of this court, that representative government bodies in the United States do have the ability to single out certain weapons that are a danger to society, and to limit or forbid their ownership by the citizens they represent.

They could rule that way, say by upholding the handgun ban.

It is also the majority opinion of this court that representative government bodies in the United States do have the ability to control the ammunition that would be used in guns owned by the citizens of the United States.

Ammunition is not at issue in this case, so they are unlikely to mention it. But it would follow from the first posited ruling, if they could ban dangerous arms, they could ban dangerous ammunition.

131 posted on 06/25/2008 4:20:46 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Perdogg

Close loss.

Remember Bush came out against Heller, and most of the SC is left of him.

Stock up, and remember that after January you will have a very short time to buy anything for what may be coming.


132 posted on 06/25/2008 4:39:28 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Antoninus
How about a million angry gun owners marching (peacefully) on DC. Do you think that would get anyone's attention?

Probably about the same kind of attention the Bonus Marchers got.

See also Bonus Army

133 posted on 06/25/2008 4:50:31 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

I agree with your observations. Thanks for the response.


134 posted on 06/25/2008 4:53:37 PM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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To: Pistolshot
It's call proportionality of punishment.

But that's NOT in the Constitution. It's a value judgment, as such making it is among the powers reserved to the states by the 10th amendment.

Now, the taking of a life deserves the response that society as a whole is willing to accept, not what you personally think should happen.

Right, and the Supreme Court is not "society as a whole". Neither is a legislature, but under our system it's their job and their power to represent society as a whole.

135 posted on 06/25/2008 4:58:51 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Ancesthntr
The Court won't even touch upon the definition of "bear" (as in "the right of the people to keep and bear arms...), as this is not a case regarding the right to carry a firearm

Actually one of the DC laws in the Supreme Court's formulation of The Question, does concern bearing arms. It bans bearing loaded long arms, even in one's own home, from one room to another.

136 posted on 06/25/2008 5:03:06 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

And do you believe the death sentence was given without emotion involved?


137 posted on 06/25/2008 5:06:13 PM PDT by Pistolshot (When you let what you are define who you are, you create divisiveness.)
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To: Pistolshot
The right of the state to define what crimes should recieve the death penalty should be controlled, or would you accept the death penalty for drunk driving or jay-walking, if you take it to the extremes?

Would a jury be willing to sentence someone to death for jaywalking? I know that it's not uncommon for the state to play various games with what juries are and are not allowed to hear, and that's a problem that needs to be addressed. Nonetheless, if the state refrains from gaming the jury, I would trust that jury's judgment far more than Justice Ginsburg's.

138 posted on 06/25/2008 5:19:30 PM PDT by supercat
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To: redgolum
Remember Bush came out against Heller, and most of the SC is left of him.

His justice department did, but then his Vice President, in Mr. Cheney's capacity as President of the Senate, came out for Heller by signing up for the Amici brief supporting Heller. I don't think "W" himself has made a statement one way or other. If you have a link to one, I'd appreciate it. But even the solicitor general did not argue against an individual right, but rather for "reasonable restrictions" based on "compelling state interest".

BTW, McCain also signed onto that "friend of the court" brief in support of Heller, which was written by Stephen Holbrook, well known pro arms rights attorney. B. Hussein did not, nor did he have the stones to sign on to a brief for DC, as 18 sitting Congresscritters, lead by Chaka Fattah did.

139 posted on 06/25/2008 5:39:22 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Pistolshot
And do you believe the death sentence was given without emotion involved?

Probably not, but so what? The potential for a judge or jury, I prefer a jury, to impose a death penalty for any particular crime is a matter for legislation. That might not be emotionless as we might like, but I don't think Supreme Court Justices have a corner on the dispassion supply either.

140 posted on 06/25/2008 5:47:43 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: rahbert

“Sorry for the triplicate posts.”

I just had the same problem at another thread. I hit post, but nothing happened. Waited a minute, hit it again and low and behold, two posts. Can the moderators fix this?


141 posted on 06/25/2008 5:48:29 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: sanchmo

...in which case the majority opinion will be very well written, constitutionally sound and very pleasing to most members of this forum.


142 posted on 06/25/2008 6:09:03 PM PDT by MSF BU (++)
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To: Mr. Silverback

It was indeed Kennedy making those sounds.


143 posted on 06/25/2008 6:44:57 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

12 hours now.

The silence is deafening.


144 posted on 06/25/2008 7:08:09 PM PDT by djf (I don't believe in perpetual motion. Perpetual mutton, that's another thing entirely!)
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To: El Gato
"but it will be declared subject to "reasonable" regulations, and the DC laws termed "reasonable". "

Now how one gets regulations being reasonable out of "Shall Not Be Abridged.."... I just do not get this..

Does not mean I am correct.. Just that it seems so clear...

"They" are looking to the judges to find any possible loop hole.

145 posted on 06/25/2008 7:35:34 PM PDT by drc43 (NO Drilling for prosperity!!....Nancy Pelosi)
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To: El Gato

I have to disagree. Judging from Kennedy’s questions in oral argument, I expect him to hold that the right to keep and bear arms protected by the 2nd Amendment is an individual and “fundamental” right, apply the strict scrutiny test to the DC gun ban, and hold it unconstitutional as overinclusive and not narrowly tailored to serving a compelling government interest.

Also, from what I’m hearing, I’m wrong and Scalia, not Kennedy, will be writing the majority opinion.


146 posted on 06/25/2008 8:04:28 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Duty, Honor, Country.)
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To: Pharmboy

Cool, thanks for the info.


147 posted on 06/25/2008 8:59:43 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (It's not conservative to accept an inept Commander-in-Chief in a time of war. Back Mac.)
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To: Pistolshot; El Gato

First, I’m wondering why Pistolshot hasn’t answered the question I posed in post 120. Too difficult for you?

Second, could any crime that actually deserves the death penalty be discussed without any emotion? I mean, murder is a pretty emotional subject, and you’ve already said we can execute people for that.

Do we need to have a state legislature full of Vulcans before we can pass a law regarding the death penatly?


148 posted on 06/25/2008 9:09:00 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (It's not conservative to accept an inept Commander-in-Chief in a time of war. Back Mac.)
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To: archy
wow archy, are those guys young Finns ???

they dont look 12 yrs old...

149 posted on 06/25/2008 9:31:48 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Trust in the Lord...vote yer conscience...=...LiveFReeOr Die...)
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To: Joe Brower
you either believe the second amendment protects your god given right or you don't.

What the "supreme court" says don't mean diddly.

Ps: It is you that protects and sustains that same god given right.

The question is, how far will you go if others say NO!

150 posted on 06/25/2008 10:07:07 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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