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Unstamped certificate suggests Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen (Updated 6/26)
Israel Insider ^ | June 26, 2008 | Reuven Koret

Posted on 06/27/2008 2:51:17 PM PDT by Red Steel

UPDATE 6/26:

Janice Okubo, in response to an Israeli Insider question on Tuesday, would not confirm nor deny whether she had told a St. Petersburg Times reporter whether she had said the birth certificate was "real", citing the statutory stipulation that "Hawaii state law (HRS §338-18) prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record as defined by statute." This would, however, seem to negate the propriety of any disclosure by her of confidential information.

Jim Geraghty of The National Review Online, following up on this Israel Insider report, said he had contacted Okubo:

"I spoke to Ms. Okubo late Wednesday afternoon, and she said she had seen the version of Obama's certificate of live birth posted on the sites. While her office cannot verify the information on a form without the permission of the certificate holder (Obama), she said "the form is exactly the same" and it has 'all the components of a birth certificate' record issued by the state. In other words, she sees no reason to think the version posted on Obama's web site and Daily Kos is not genuine."

"The 'embossed seal' in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to Daily Kos, but not visible (as in another certificate posted on Israel Insider for contrast). She thinks the difference in visibility can be attributed to the pressure used when applying the seal."

Geraghty's interpretation of Okubo's comments is inexact and tendentious. First, her observation that "the form is the same" is not contested, here or elsewhere. No one is doubting that the form that appears on the various websites (including this one) is a replica of that used for valid certificates. Therefore Geraght's interpretation that follows "In other words" is clearly his own conclusion, not hers.

Indeed, Okubo confirms to Geraghty that the image is lacking the "embossed seal" (and the official signature) that are required for the certificate to be valid. While "she thinks" that the difference in visibility might be attributed to varying "pressure," she admits that she does not know and has not seen the original.

Contrasting the purported Obama image with the DeCosta sample, it is hard to imagine the embossed seal and signature being of such light pressure that they would become completely invisible. An inked date of June 6, 2007, in reverse, does come through. But in any event, Okubo's confirmation that the premsumptive birth certificate is lacking the required stamps makes it all the more imperative for Obama to release the original paper certification, the only valid kind, and not an easy-to-photoshop electronic facsimile thereof. It should not be hard to produce, since Hawaii provides for family members to request them.

Even though Geraghy notes that Obama "initially refused to provide his birth certificate," he has suggested that it is "rather unlikely" that Obama was born in Kenya, since it would require that the candidate and his family do a lot of lying. In fact, there were reports of Kenyati relatives claiming he was born there, and there is the mysterious disappearance of his grandmother, who may indeed know something about this subject.

After all, being born in Hawaii is part of the "family legend" and it would be unreasonable to expect this to vary from interview to interview, especially when a non-Hawaiian birth would invalidate Obama's run for the presidency.

It is indeed hard to believe that Obama could have gone through his life without having to prove that he was an American citizen. But the credulity with which the mainstream media has automatically accepted as valid the image that appears on the radical left Daily Kos blog and on the Obama campaign's polemical "Fight the Smears" website makes it clear that many have been unwilling, now and in the past, to demand proof of an authentic document. They prefer to accept on faith that the candidate or his campaign would not lie about such a thing, assuming he has nothing to hide and no motive to lie.

But until the certified paper birth document is produced -- either by media pressure or a legal challenge in any state -- the fact remains that Obama has not proven that he is a "natural born citizen" eligible to be President according to the Constitution.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; elections; forgery; obama; obamatruthfile
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The I.Insider boys are on the Obama birth certificate caper as a dog who won't let go of a bone.
1 posted on 06/27/2008 2:51:18 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

Hawaii state law (HRS §338-18) prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record as defined by statute.”

Balderdash.

In any court of law he would be deemed to have waived that already.


2 posted on 06/27/2008 2:56:06 PM PDT by esquirette (If we do not have our own world view, we will accept theirs.)
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To: Red Steel

The story that won’t go away.


3 posted on 06/27/2008 2:59:11 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Red Steel
assuming he has nothing to hide and no motive to lie.

I assume they are kidding. Honest OOOBBBAAAMMMAAA? BS

4 posted on 06/27/2008 3:00:12 PM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: esquirette

Somebody with deep pockets is going to have to go to court and demand prood of Obama’s eligibility to run for office...

I’m sure all kinds of back-ground checks have been run already, even colleges often demand sometype of birth proof...for loans and what have you. I had to produce mine when I went to college and I am the same age as Obama!


5 posted on 06/27/2008 3:02:42 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: Red Steel

This is good and others are reporting this across the country. Furthermore, the Democrats have no morals, no scruples, and they hate our Constitution.

How dare they try to place someone in the Oval Office who is not a Natural Born Citizen? The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, and Article II Sections 2, 4 are very self-explanatory.

The Marxists must be stopped!


6 posted on 06/27/2008 3:09:32 PM PDT by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: mdmathis6

Consider this possibility:

...meanwhile, people are building more and more of a case for Obama to play the victim of unfair treatment, when he finally releases the real McCoy...which shows he was born in Hawaii.


7 posted on 06/27/2008 3:10:40 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring

Then Obama will be charged with deceptive tactics by misleading the public for political gain.


8 posted on 06/27/2008 3:13:40 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: All

In the case of Obama campaigning for the highest office in the land:

(1) Why won’t he produce a valid certificate for proof; and,

(2) Why would he attempt to run for President knowing the requirement was a necessity - which he could have clarified years ago when he ran for Senate.

This is a matter for the people of the United States to have the RIGHT TO INSIST this man is a credible candidate.


9 posted on 06/27/2008 3:18:48 PM PDT by imintrouble
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To: Gondring

Yep...me thinks Obama knows the Br’er Rabbit stories well!


10 posted on 06/27/2008 3:25:52 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: Red Steel
prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record

A Free Press insists that there is a very tangible interest to out a presidential candidate who may be INELLIGIBLE for the job.

Take this matter to the courts. Let more eyes get to see the original certification.

11 posted on 06/27/2008 3:29:14 PM PDT by weegee
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To: Red Steel
Then Obama will be charged with deceptive tactics by misleading the public for political gain.

I don't recall Dan Rather or the cohorts within the DNC being charged under any such statutes when they presented forged documents as an October Surprise to sway an election.

I don't recall anyone being charged with a criminal act for forging the letters.

12 posted on 06/27/2008 3:31:25 PM PDT by weegee
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To: weegee

I think someone will take this to court sometime before November.


13 posted on 06/27/2008 3:31:43 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: mdmathis6
I’m sure all kinds of back-ground checks have been run already, even colleges often demand sometype of birth proof...for loans and what have you.

Democrats don't use banks. They have backers who co-sign for their homes.

Remember the Clintons? Remember this guy who is on trial now?

14 posted on 06/27/2008 3:33:24 PM PDT by weegee
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To: weegee

I should have said ‘accuse’ his campaign instead of ‘charge’.


15 posted on 06/27/2008 3:34:10 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

O.K., it’s time for an FBI background check on Obambi. If he’s not a natural-born citizen he can’t be POTUS.


16 posted on 06/27/2008 3:37:00 PM PDT by Mogollon ($5/gal Gas....Kick the Jacka$$es Out!)
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To: Parley Baer

“The story that won’t go away.”

Like Hillary...


17 posted on 06/27/2008 3:37:11 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Red Steel

Drive-by media reporters successfully sued to get access to SEALED court orders on the PRIVATE custody battle between Obama Senate opponent Jack Ryan and his wife — and nobody in power gave a damn about protecting the child, which is why the documents were sealed. The “public interest” was the excuse given by the court.

Why doesn’t someone sue to get a real, certified copy of the ORIGINAL Obama birth certificate from Hawaii — if there is one? Much more than the Ryan records, it should be a public document and people should have a right to see it — whether the state wants to release it or not!


18 posted on 06/27/2008 3:38:12 PM PDT by JTR1888
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To: JTR1888

The hypocrisy from the left knows no bounds.


19 posted on 06/27/2008 3:41:08 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: JTR1888
You gotta love the hypocricy. Obama:

1) had sealed divorce records of his Democrat primary opponent Blair Hull exposed, revealing accusations of wife-beating and forcing Hull out of the primary, and

2) had sealed divorce records of his Republican opponent Jack Ryan exposed, revealing accusations of wanting to perform public sex acts and forcing Ryan out of the general election.

It seems that Obama can't win without destroying his opponent by exposing sealed private records. So now, people want Obama's records exposed, and there aren't any, anwhere?

-PJ

20 posted on 06/27/2008 3:41:37 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: mdmathis6
Actually, I would think that a relatively small group of people could file in federal court, against their state for putting either Obama’s or McCain's name on the ballot due to reasons of natural born citizen.

This would require an affirmative ruling by the court and could create situation where a special master could be the “controller” of the documentation and rule one way or the other.

21 posted on 06/27/2008 3:43:34 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Political Junkie Too

I heard from the MSM (CBS?) that in his first primary, Obama forced out a candidate by ruling her inelligible (did not have every i dotted and every t crossed).

What’s good for the goose...


22 posted on 06/27/2008 3:49:22 PM PDT by weegee
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To: taxcontrol

McCain’s dad was serving in the military. A US base is not US territory? Our embassies are US territory too.

Obama’s dad was not a citizen. And he was already married. And he was gone by age 2.


23 posted on 06/27/2008 3:50:47 PM PDT by weegee
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To: Red Steel

24 posted on 06/27/2008 3:52:00 PM PDT by Prole (Pray for the families of Chris and Channon.)
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To: Paige

I agree with you. But don’t forget that we were just one justice’s opinion away from having the Second Amendment declared unconstitutional. Liberals will do anything to attain power.


25 posted on 06/27/2008 3:53:14 PM PDT by twntaipan (NOBAMA! Say No to B.O.!)
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To: Red Steel

Let’s make this a non-issue by insuring he is defeated at the polls.


26 posted on 06/27/2008 3:56:47 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Political Junkie Too
Because Obama is a pathological liar who will stop at nothing in order to gain power for himself.

He does not care about the fools in his camp.

He does not care about the multiple deceptions that he presents.

He does not care about the taxpayer dollars that he takes.

He does not care about anyone or anything except himself.

He is an extortionist, a thug and a racist.

I hope that is all he will ever be.

27 posted on 06/27/2008 3:57:03 PM PDT by Prole (Pray for the families of Chris and Channon.)
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To: weegee
Thanks. Updating my post...

===========================

You gotta love the hypocricy. Obama:

1) Challenged qualifying signatures on all his Illinois State Senate Democrat primary opponents' applications (see Alice Palmer), running unopposed,

2) had sealed divorce records of his Democrat primary opponent Blair Hull exposed, revealing accusations of wife-beating and forcing Hull out of the primary,

1) had sealed divorce records of his Republican opponent Jack Ryan exposed, revealing accusations of wanting to perform public sex acts and forcing Ryan out of the general election.

It seems that Obama can't win without legal technicalities or by destroying his opponent by exposing sealed private records. So now, people want Obama's records exposed, and there aren't any, anwhere?

-PJ

28 posted on 06/27/2008 4:02:20 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: weegee

Or “What goes around comes around...”


29 posted on 06/27/2008 4:08:11 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: weegee

Either way, a test case in US court would quickly end this issue once and for all.


30 posted on 06/27/2008 4:08:25 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Red Steel

Why is the certificate # blacked out?

African is not a race! In 1961, wouldn't Negro or Negroid have been used to describe his Father's race instead of African?

Where is the indentation of the official seal and the folded marks, the rest of us have on our valid birth certificate copies?

Last but not least: What are the reverse purple lettering past the last entry line on the lower middle right? What do they mean, and why are they there?

Did Dan Blather's former liar/inept forgier, Mary Mapes create this bs?

Is this phoney birth certificate just another example of the Real but Fake Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas, the Islamofacist Manchurian Candidate for Changing America?

Compare this doctored and phoney BC with a real one shown below:

We probably have as much chance of seeing a real copy of his birth certificate as seeing John Kerry’s full military record. Kerry refused to release his military records, and Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas, the Islamofacist Manchurian Candidate will probably not show his BC. We will be labeled as racists for daring to question his birth.

31 posted on 06/27/2008 4:35:56 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Kerry was a Uber Liberal, Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas makes Kerry look like Jesse Helms!)
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To: twntaipan

Oh without a doubt, and the good thing, Senator McCain was very pleased with the ruling.

But, I haven’t found Senator McCain’s remarks on the Supreme Court Ruling where the Justices struck down part of Campaign Finance Reform. Senator McCain will run from any comments on the CFR ruling in order to keep from having foot in mouth disease after he helped to orchestrate the horrible piece of legislation.


32 posted on 06/27/2008 4:42:45 PM PDT by Paige ("All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," Edmund Burke)
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To: mdmathis6

“Somebody with deep pockets is going to have to go to court and demand proof of Obama’s eligibility to run for office...”

It will be dangerous and costly. And it would likely take a Democrat for reasons of standing. Just being a citizen probably won’t cut it.

And still it could go either way. There is enough stare decisis out there to decide against disclosure first and find case law later.


33 posted on 06/27/2008 4:45:28 PM PDT by esquirette (If we do not have our own world view, we will accept theirs.)
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To: imintrouble
"...Why would he attempt to run for President knowing the requirement was a necessity - which he could have clarified years ago when he ran for Senate..."

Because he's a lawyer?

34 posted on 06/27/2008 4:51:32 PM PDT by Does so (...against all enemies, DOMESTIC and foreign...)
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To: esquirette
It makes one wonder how the NYT can leak secret prisons, secret bank transaction tracing, secret foreign wiretaps, secret agent names, etc., but nobody can leak a simple ordinary birth certificate?

-PJ

35 posted on 06/27/2008 4:52:27 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: Red Steel
Then Obama will be charged with deceptive tactics by misleading the public for political gain.

How? Because some people doubt that the image of the form he released is valid?

36 posted on 06/27/2008 4:54:20 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Grampa Dave
From HotAir.com
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/27/st-petersburg-times-sort-of-verifies-obamas-birth-certificate/

The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama’s birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.

“I guess the big issue that’s being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature,” Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. “Because they scanned the front … you wouldn’t see those things.”

Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.

And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”…

------------------------------------------------------------

I've come to the conclusion that Okubo is covering the best she can for Obama.

Okubo: “Because they scanned the front … you wouldn’t see those things.”

BS. Patricia Decosta's Birth Certificate shows the certifying markings from a scan of the front.

Okubo: And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”…

More BS. The dude must have super xray vision. But Ms. Okubo, you just told us that "you wouldn't see those things" from a front side scan of a Hawaiian birth certificate.

Ms. Okubo, why don't the Obama people rescan the document using a higher resolution scanning, the front and back, and republish it back online? I'm waiting miss Okubo...it wouldn't take the Obama people more than 2 minutes to do the job. Are they incompetent or do they have something to hide?

37 posted on 06/27/2008 5:00:53 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

The black box that redacts the birth certificate was done by a computer.

Who did that? Obama or the state of Hawaii?


38 posted on 06/27/2008 5:04:55 PM PDT by Raebie
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To: Red Steel
"Hawaii state law (HRS §338-18) prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record as defined by statute."

Doesn't that statute say that a relative qualifies? I still say we should get cousin Dick Cheney to request a copy of Obama's birth certificate!

-PJ

39 posted on 06/27/2008 5:05:32 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: Political Junkie Too

Hell, don’t we *all* have a direct and tangible interest??


40 posted on 06/27/2008 5:11:00 PM PDT by Raebie
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To: Red Steel
and there is the mysterious disappearance of his grandmother, who may indeed know something about this subject.

Last time I look, Hussein threw her under the bus in his "race" speech. Perhaps they ought to look there.

41 posted on 06/27/2008 5:13:01 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Election 2008: Now the evil of two lessers.)
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To: Gondring
I meant to say "accused" the Obama campaign. See post #15. If the Obama people now come up with a better image(resolution) of the same document, with all the certifying markings, which proves it's valid. And then they try to make political hay by accusing bloggers of smear tactics over his birth certificate.

My question to them, the Obama campaign, is why didn't they do that in the first place? Why did they take soooo long? Are you guys incompetent or are you guys using deceptive tactics? It sure appears you guys are being deceptive. I know they knew about the controversy that is simmering on the web about the birth certificate, which brings me back to the first question, why did they take so long?

42 posted on 06/27/2008 5:22:23 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Political Junkie Too

LoL!


43 posted on 06/27/2008 5:26:07 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

You think you can make that stick...? Or will it be, “we released a scan of the legitimate document...but look at the paranoia in these people, that they hounded me to go out of my way to submit to their ridiculous demands, in their hopes to distract me from my campaign of change...”?


44 posted on 06/27/2008 6:37:17 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Red Steel

Funny...if they went to the trouble to get a fake Hawaii certificate, do you think they wouldn’t just fake embossing?!?


45 posted on 06/27/2008 6:38:29 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Political Junkie Too

Once I went to get a certified copy of a death certificate and the clerk prepared it in front of me. They had the paper under lock and key at the vital records office. I remarked that I thought that was odd, and she responded that the plain paper goes for hundreds on the street.

I am wondering if just a bit of plain vital records paper somehow escaped Honolulu. It is just too strange. No signature. No certification.


46 posted on 06/27/2008 6:40:52 PM PDT by esquirette (If we do not have our own world view, we will accept theirs.)
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To: esquirette
I'd believe it given the state of illegal immigration today. At first thought, I wonder what kind of illegal immigration an island state in the middle of the Pacific Ocean might have, but the paper could be sent to the mainland for forgery of birth certificates. I wonder what the market demographics would be for forged Hawaiian birth certificates? I'd think it can't be Hispanics, because I don't recall Hispanics making up a large part of the Hawaiian population. Would it be Polynesian/Asian immigrants faking Hawaiian birth certificates?

-PJ

47 posted on 06/27/2008 6:48:23 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: Gondring
I don't no if I could make it stick, but I'll argue it for all its worth.

paranoia in these people

Paranoia? On the contrary, the questions about the irregularities that appear in your birth certificate that your campaign published online are reasonable, especially since you are running for president.

48 posted on 06/27/2008 6:54:09 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Gondring
Funny...if they went to the trouble to get a fake Hawaii certificate, do you think they wouldn’t just fake embossing?!?

A 1,000 dollar question.

49 posted on 06/27/2008 6:55:49 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Colonel_Flagg; Red Steel
and there is the mysterious disappearance of his grandmother, who may indeed know something about this subject.

She appears here ... for a whole 4 seconds.

50 posted on 06/27/2008 6:56:22 PM PDT by wideminded
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