Airline CEOs Beg Customers To Push Congress On Speculation

CNN money ^ | 7-9-08 | CNN

[NoLibZone]

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Expecting to lose an estimated $10 billion this year because of skyrocketing fuel costs, chief executives of the country's biggest airlines Wednesday resorted to begging their customers to press Congress for tougher regulation of energy markets.

[americanophile]

Customers to Airline CEOs: Drop dead. You treat as like cattle, don’t expect us to guard the herd too.

[Prole]

Also related:

US Airways cuts all movies from their domestic flights:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2008/07/08/20080708biz-talker0709-ON.html

US Airways and United want 15 bucks for a checked bag, and US Airways wants 2 bucks for each in-flight soda:

http://www.worldhum.com/weblog/item/the_long_descent_us_airways_to_charge_2_for_soft_drinks_20080613/

Passengers may soon pay airfare depending on how much they weigh:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNsp.l2CJ1jk

[kbennkc]

Maybe Maxine Waters will run your company for you since you are unable to do so without nanny government interfering with markets .

[ZULU]

There are only two ways out of this mess.

1) CLOSE THE ENRON LOOPHOLE

2) Allow drilling on ANWAR, in the midwest, and off shore drilling.

Long-term:

Coal and nuclear power augmented by solar and wind power.

[xDGx]

+1

I quit flying altogether, half because of the TSA and their foolishness and half because of the bean counters running the buses in the sky. And I was that most prized of all: a last-minute business traveler who regularly paid top buck to go where needed.

Some people bemoan the downsizing of the airline industry. Living under the approach for a reasonably large airport, I relish the quiet as my sleep is less often disturbed by planes on their way in or out. If they all went under tomorrow, I would not shed a tear.

[Prole]

If they all went under tomorrow, it would be for a lack of creative innovation and quality service while facing their problems.

It seems to me that absolute fools are running the airline industry from both the corporate and government sides.

Hostile customer service, prolonged stays on the tarmac, overflowing toilets, no food/drink services, crybaby Muslims, incompetent TSA thugs, bacteria and disease prone "shoe free" inspection zones, crowded seating conditions, additional fees for everything, tiny overhead compartments crammed with oversized bags, fear of lawsuits, lost baggage, filthy passengers, recyled cabin air that is loaded with germs, insects and other pests on board, overbooked flights, etc...

When will Sinatra's era return?

[Paleo Conservative]

Airlines are some of the biggest speculators. Southwest’s oil price hedging is speculation.

[Gondring]

Good capitalist solutions there!

[xDGx]

the no shoe nonsense was what sealed the deal for me. I wear sandals at the health club while using the showers and amazingly have managed to go through life without athlete’s foot. I’ll be damned if I am going to stick my feet in the petri dish rugs that guard the entrance to commercial flight. Instead of sending a message (preferably by trebuchet) to the ‘Religion of Peace’ and dropping Richard Reid on Mecca from 35,000 feet, we instead treat EVERYBODY ELSE like a criminal.

[Gondring]

Airlines are some of the biggest speculators. Southwest’s oil price hedging is speculation.

And Southwest was notably absent from the list of those who want their bad bets covered. Southwest made a good bet ("hedged") and they are benefitting from the risk. I'm sure the otherw souldn't be calling for this if THEY had bet right.

[Gondring]

Yep. I recall when barricades and restrictions were put up after Oklahoma City. Shoulda dropped a Timothy McVeigh on DC and all would have been fine. </sarc>

[rottndog]

...resorted to begging their customers to press Congress for tougher regulation of energy markets.

I think I'll pass on that one. However, I will press Congress for tougher regulation of pilots, mechanics, and flight attendants unions....the true culprits in woes of the airline industry.

[traviskicks]

I never realized corporate America was so stupid.

[BulletBobCo]

Instead of sending a message (preferably by trebuchet) to the ‘Religion of Peace’ and dropping Richard Reid on Mecca from 35,000 feet, we instead treat EVERYBODY ELSE like a criminal.

Instead of taking our shoes off, can you imagine what TSA would be demanding of us had Reid stuck a stick of dynamite up where the sun doesn't shine?

[fabian]

it’s stupid to have a commodity like oil which is the life blood of our economy, be part of a market which can and is being manipulated for higher profit. Totally crazy...O’reilly gets it...much more flex fuel and other alternatives now so we will have good competition for all consumers. For us to only be able to choose gasoline is not the free market at work, it is a type of monopoly which is ending, thank God.

[xDGx]

Instead of taking our shoes off, can you imagine what TSA would be demanding of us had Reid stuck a stick of dynamite up where the sun doesn't shine?

Then they would have turned the job over to the IRS ;)

[weegee]

How are those new electric planes coming? Windmill powered? Atomic catapult?

[Prole]

I have solutions to most, if not all, of these problems.

1.) Hostile customer service: Each employee of my airline will address each customer as Sir or Ma'am, and treat them with utmost respect. They will also wear nametags complete with ID numbers in the event that a customer is mistreated. The ID number system will keep the employees in check because they know how easily they can be identified by the customer. For each complaint filed by the customer, there will be a counseling session. After the third or fourth counseling session (depending on the nature of the complaint), the employee may be suspended or terminated for any rude or harsh behavior toward the customer. If the customer was the problem, then that can also be considered during the counseling sessions carried out by the supervisors.

2.) Prolonged stays on the tarmac: Federal law should allow for any folks stranded on the tarmac for more than 1.5 hours to be de-planed immediately. No exceptions. Anything over 2 hours will warrant a full investigation into the company responsible, and fines may be given to the airline if deemed appropriate by a judge.

3.) Overflowing toilets: Punishable by extremely harsh fines. Sanitation and disease exposure are serious health risks on board the airlines, and I will impose heavy fines on any aircraft inspected by FAA personnel with an overflowing toilet.

4.) no food/drink services: If the flight is more than 3 hours, an in-flight meal/drink service will be provided. Its cost will be incorporated into the final airfare price prior to ticket sale.

5.) crybaby Muslims: FBI background checks for all Muslims entering US airports. Increased recruitment incentives to armed US Air Marshals (accredited university and firearm educated personnel only) includes TAX FREE status to all personnel who on duty in this department. Incidentally, this ties into my plan for TAX FREE status to all personnel who work in life-threatening US government jobs. My TAX FREE strategy would be geared toward all active duty military folks, Coast Guard, FBI field agents, and other federal security personnel. Once these services meet their REAL personnel numbers to sustain their forces effectively, these forces can be more selective with who they hire/recruit, and they will also be more able to fire/remove personnel who don't belong.

6.) incompetent TSA thugs: Privatize Airport Security so that it is contracted to a security firm that can fire/suspend/sue any security agent who wrongfully mistreats, harms, insults, sexually molests customers in the airport. TSA personnel are cut back dramatically, and the personnel who remain on staff are college educated and TAX FREE. They will be expected to perform fairly and honestly. Any misconduct will be reported to the regional FAA office for disciplinary action (Department of Homeland Security should create something of a UCMJ process for the TSA). The TSA should be placed into areas that are out of sight, and are in more of a surveillance role (Security camera control, infared cameras, motion detection, this type of thing).

7.) bacteria and disease prone "shoe free" inspection zones: No more of this. Someone help me out here.

8.) crowded seating conditions: Rip out these cramped seating conditions in favor of something more comfortable to sit in. Increase the airfare cost a bit, but drop the concept of "sardines in a tin can." It's detrimental to the hope that customers will return.

9.) additional fees for everything: Rather than tack on extra fees for everything, come up with a solitary cost for each ticket that is less obvious. Yes, I know my concepts will create an increased cost for the consumer, but the pain, anger and disease factors go down with my ideas.

10.) Tiny overhead compartments crammed with oversized bags: A reduction in the tiny chairs crammed into each bird will diminish the number of people crammed onto each bird. Make the compartments a little larger by modestly increasing their size. Enforce the policy of size for each bag carried on. I see way too many bags coming onto airplanes that should have never been allowed in the first place. Now that these oversized bags are on the bird, that means less room for folks who are doing the right thing by bringing appropriate sized bags.

11.) fear of lawsuits: Cut down on this fear by imposing new federal laws that protect Americans from hostile Mohammedan savages who are intentionally provoking fear on the planes and in the airports. If a Muslim behaves suspiciously, have him booted off the plane and/or arrested. Have the Air Marshals make the call. Incidentally, no Muslims should be allowed to be Air Marshals as this imposes a National Security risk. Mohammedan infiltration units would take advantage of the concept of Air Security if their own people are already in the system. 12.) lost baggage: Someone help me out here.

13.) filthy passengers: Someone help me out here.

14.) recyled cabin air that is loaded with germs: Increase the number of fresh oxygen tanks onboard each plane to correlate with the number of passengers and the number of hours each bird is in the air. Because we live in the era of airborne illnesses, this is a critical issue.

15.) insects and other pests on board: I don't even know how to start on this one.

16.) overbooked flights: Why is it that the airlines overbook these flights? There should be one universal, digital system for each flight. Once I get online, select my seat and pay with my credit card, that seat should be mine and mine only. My airline would use a digital system to track and record each seat as the customer selects and pays for it. Once all the seats are paid for, my online page would not allow for anymore bookings.

Alright, I am tired. I tried to answer each of my own problems to the best of my ability.

[Prole]

I would like to make a quick correction:

"Incidentally, this ties into my plan for TAX FREE status to all personnel who work in life-threatening US government jobs."

What i meant to communicate was:

Incidentally, this ties into my plan for TAX FREE status to all personnel who work in extremely dangerous US government jobs. IE, federal folks whose lives are regularly in harm's way should be TAX FREE.

[weegee]

7.) bacteria and disease prone "shoe free" inspection zones: No more of this. Someone help me out here.

Considering the guy who originated this tactic has died (someone gave Reid the idea), what are the chances of this being "the" plot again?

There are also plots about using body cavities to carry plastic explosives. The TSA knows NOBODY would stand for vag and anal exams with rubber gloves to board every flight. Making us remove our shoes is just as extreme.

Give a hefty bounty to anybody to tackles a terrorist in the act trying to ignite a shoe bomb. Let dogs sniff the feet of passengers for suspicious materials.

There are other ways to address this risk. Some day we WILL all be flying naked (maybe clothed special airline provided jumpsuits) with NO carry on baggage.

[Gondring]

Remember to consider the blocked seats for special fares such as businesses.

[Gondring]

Remember to consider the blocked seats for special fares such as businesses.

[LFOD]

HEY!!!!
United and American Airlines...DROP DEAD.
You both bumped me from flights (in the US) after traveling all the way back from the Middle East.
Go to hell.

When I protested I was threatened with “missing” the next available flight by an indifferent staff.
I hope both of your airlines tank.

[BubbaJunebug]

Southwest also signed this with 11 other airlines

[tcostell]

There's no such thing as the "Enron Loophole"

If what you really mean is a radical intervention by the government into financial market,s be careful what you wish for. the cure will definitely be worse than the disease.

[tcostell]

You should really learn something about economics before you say something so utterly foolish.

[Tarpon]

Since the Alaska pipeline is running at half capacity today, drilling ANWR will add enough oil to fill it up.

Drill here, drill now, pay less, even airline CEOs will pay less. Waht’s so hard to understand about that?

[Notary Sojac]

Dear Airline CEO's:

I recommend you hire a team comprised of retired employees of Aeroflot from the Brezhnev era, and task them with improving your customer service.

Once we have brought service levels up to, say, 1974 Soviet standards, I expect that the flying public will be so much happier that you will get a good deal of public support for your proposed bailout.

Sincerely (g) Notary Sojac

[Malsua]

Increase the number of fresh oxygen tanks onboard each plane to correlate with the number of passengers and the number of hours each bird is in the air

Cabin air is typically a 50/50 mix of recycled air and outside air. The engines(which are giant air pumps) pump outside air into the cabin to increase air pressure to 5000 feet msl. If the mixture is raised, the efficiency of the engines goes down. Cabin air that is recycled goes through hepa filters. You're more likely to get a disease from the surfaces you touch on the plane, not the air.

[xzins]

I support anything that results in a free market.

When speculators manipulate the market, then it is no longer a free market.

If these executives are correct, then I support them. It has nothing to do with the airline industry, late flights, or lost luggage.

[Hardastarboard]

If I got the same shoddy, undependable service delivered with a sh!tty attitude from ANY other vendor or service provider, I’d never buy from them again. With the airlines, you buy from them or you drive. Within a five hour radius, that’s an acceptable alternative. For coast to coast travel, or even traveling half way across the country, driving just isn’t an option. So they have us in a trap, and they know it.

[traviskicks]

The airlines blame much of the high fuel costs on "excessive" speculation in the market.>/i>

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.

[traviskicks]

it’s stupid to have a commodity like oil which is the life blood of our economy, be part of a market which can and is being manipulated for higher profit.

Are you serious? This is the definition of capitalism. Government interference and regulation always drives up prices and results in shortages, only a free market (which does not exist in energy markets thanks to government), can deliver services in abudance at a low price and these CEOs somehow don't get it and are pushing to drive up fuel prices even higher if their idiot advocacy plans were actually implimented. One would think that those who had the most to loose from high oil prics would push for the correct solutions (eliminate taxes, and regulations (both in gas mixes and restrictions on how companies can act overseas, oil refinery permits etc.. and remove drilling prohibitions etc...), unless this is just a gimmick to try to keep the customers from being mad at the higher ticket prices.

[ZULU]

Our economy is collapsing because of higher fuel costs.

Even people in the oil industry state that the current costs are reflective of speculation in the commodity markets.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

If we tell people who are losing their jobs and can't afford to pay the escalating costs of food prices and other commodities to wait until the market adjusts itself, we are risking a revolution or socialist take over. I don;t think its worth the gamble.

[Cripplehawk]

Worst thing happen to me. I was to go to PHoenix for job training. [I live in Herndon(Where Dulles is) near Washington D.C.) The flight was overbooked and my bags WENT ON THE PLANE TO PHX. To make things worst they had to reschedule my training for 2 weeks now. So now I won’t be starting my new job until JULY 21st. To make things even more insulting them DumF%^K at USAirways sent one of my bags to Reagan National. But the good thing is the Company (that hired me) will send me to Charllote, NC. But this time I will drive. I hate to say this but our airline service is horrible it is not even funny. I just wan’t good service again. Raise the fares if you have to (I.E. no bag fees or drink fees etc). I just want good service.

[saminfl]

I just checked my itinerary on Continental Airlines and found this at the bottom of the page.

Carbon Offsetting Option Continental is committed to promoting environmental responsibility within its culture, which includes helping our customers to respond to concerns about climate change with a carbon offsetting option. We've partnered with Sustainable Travel International ("STI"), a non-profit organization dedicated to providing education and services that support environmental conservation, to provide this option to customers. If you want to leave continental.com to learn more about STI or to purchase carbon offsets from STI for this itinerary, go to sustainabletravelinternational.org/sti_offset_air/flights/c/2.

[Filo]

Increased recruitment incentives to armed US Air Marshals (accredited university and firearm educated personnel only) includes TAX FREE status to all personnel who on duty in this department. Incidentally, this ties into my plan for TAX FREE status to all personnel who work in life-threatening US government jobs. My TAX FREE strategy would be geared toward all active duty military folks, Coast Guard, FBI field agents, and other federal security personnel.

These people are already tax free. They are paid from the tax roles, giving a bit back has no bearing on that fact.

[mgstarr]

Not all the airlines are doing poorly.

Just the stupid poorly managed ones with bloated management ranks and overpaid union members with ridiculous contracts.

No different from Detroit.

[weegee]

Raise the fares if you have to (I.E. no bag fees or drink fees etc). I just want good service.

"You" get what you pay for. The airlines want artificially low ticket prices to engage in a price war with the competition.

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

Jeez Louise.

You know, any discussion about the airline industry has become fly paper for malcontents who feel entitled to luxurious flying experiences without paying over $179 per round trip ticket. We have become such a me-focused society.

Do we shut down FR because of one poster who becomes inappropriate? Do we write off the Marine Corps or the Army because one or two freaks make it through basic training? Is it then appropriate to disparage entire airlines because some employees are having a really bad day?

Let me tell you — airline employees have been living each and every day in financial limbo since 9-11. Salaries in the months following that awful day were cut 20, 30, 40, 50% if you were among those who didn’t lose their jobs. Those who remained made sacrifices to save their company. Costs of insurance increased. Perks like $10 flights disappeared due to most flights departing at capacity. Rewards like free tickets for good service were abolished.

Add on top of this loss, consider the notion that airline executives have been rewarding themselves millions in quarterly bonuses for profitable periods while in essence thumbing their noses at those sacrificing below them.

For crying out loud, please give these people a break. Some of these employees have worked 10, 20, 30 years in the airline industry and many have no where else to go. And please realize that storms happen. Toilets will at some point overflow. Cockpit lights will illuminate indicating extra attention is needed. No one is purposely trying to make you (or the employees) uncomfortable, late, sick or contaminated. Maybe consider the thousands of flights that take place daily without incident that are not discussed on the boards or evening news; maybe just even once in a while.

[fabian]

well, I highly recommend that you and others read some of www.thetruthbehindhighfuelprices.com and then get back to this thread. Richard Clough has been in the gasoline business and has well documneted evidence of massive closing of refineries and buyouts of smaller oil companies all to help keep the supply from getting large and thereby keeping the prices artifically high. He is like the Howard Jarvis of the oil business. The problem with some conservatives is that they turn a blind eye towards price manipulations and gouging because Rush says the oil companies have no fault and many of them have investments that are doing great in oil company stocks. Theere is plenty of corruption in the oil industry because they have not had to compete with electric cars, sugar alcohol and others much. That is coming to an end, thank God! Drill more yes, and FULL speed ahead with good alternatives for free market competetion just as we have in other industries.

[Notary Sojac]

No one is purposely trying to make you (or the employees) uncomfortable, late, sick or contaminated.

Well, O.K., but in a service industry heavily dependent upon people choosing to spend their discretionary income with you, "avoiding malicious intent" is insufficient as a philosophy of doing business.

And you are correct that it's as much (if not more) the fault of management as of the front line employee, but (just a hint here) that does not make a rotten experience one bit more palatable.

[Prole]

I proposed a few methods to make the airline industry more efficient and pleasant, and I was told to shut up and deal with it?

Got it.

Status quo it is!

Bye bye, airlines.

[tcostell]

He is like the Howard Jarvis of the oil business.

I've been on Wall Street for nearly 20 years, most of that in the oil business. I've been making a living at it for 2 decades so I'd say I know a little about it too.

There is no manipulation going on.

[tcostell]

You should really try to learn something BEFORE you speak.

If congress implemented a rational energy plan which encouraged US drilling the price of oil would do nothing but drop, and it would be those speculators that would make it drop. They are hanging on to the market, not pushing it. Congress is the one pushing up the price of oil with their ridiculous chant "Wind & Solar, Wind & Solar, Wind & Solar, Wind & Solar, Wind & Solar, (No nukes), Wind & Solar...

If we're risking a socialist takeover, do you know what socialists will say when they want to take over? "Desperate times call for desperate measures."

You seem well intentioned but you should learn something about economics and markets before you try to pass yourself off as an expert. You don't know what you're talking about.

[ZULU]

I guess I should excuse you for being so rude, but I won't.

I don't purport to be an economics “expert.”

But I do listen to enough economic “experts” to know that a great many of them said what I repeated here about speculators driving up the price of crude oil beyond its real value. I'm sure that Lou Dobbs, who HAS a degree in economics knows what he is talking about, and he one of very many “experts” who have made the same statement. Every time some lunatic in the Middle East sneezes, they drive prices up even more. Look at what happened just recently with escalating tensions with the Ayatollahs.

I realize this is just ONE approach to a problem which requires a multifaceted solution. Permitting drilling on ANWAR, off shore and in the western shale oil deposits is another, as well as expanding refinery capacity here in the US, using more nuclear power plants, and exploiting our vast coal reserves. So is providing more money for research into energy efficient vehicles and other alternative energy sources.

However, this President and this Congress have done absolutely NOTHING to address a dangerous problem which growing exponentially worse by the day and hour. And they have been merely the latest in a succession of parasitic, nonproductive Congressional and Executive leaches sitting in Washington, D.C.

[thackney]

The high cost of gasoline is not driven by the mark-up at the refineries. It is driven by the high cost of crude oil used at the refineries.

While many older, less efficient refineries have closed, the expansions and upgrades at the remaining refineries have resulted in increased production of fuels similar to building a new refinery every year.

Many small independent refineries remain in business and have for decades. It is still quite the competitive market.

[tcostell]

I'm sorry about being rude, but this is how I make my living and I know from where I speak.

Paul Krugman has an economics degree but he's a socialist. Lou Dobbs has an economics degree but talks for a living. What I do is I derive the cause and effect of markets. I know it better than Lou Dobbs. And again, I'm sorry for being rude, but I feel like a modern doctor who got in a time machine and went back to the 16th century. I know what causes illnesses and it's not a matter of opinion for me... but I keep meeting people who are telling me that they're sure to it's the humors, or bad air, or that it can be fixed with leeches. They all talked to "experts" too, but none of them knew what they were talking about because they didn't understand medicine.

I'm in the same boat. I know what's causing the problem. It's not a matter of opinion... there is evidence for what I'm claiming backed up by 18 years of experience, and the sum total of what an entire industry knows about markets. In the meantime there is no evidence for blaming speculators, and still everyone keeps telling me that they know better than me and keep recommending leeches.

I'm sure you're an expert in something that I know nothing about. And if we were having a discussion about it, I'd defer to your knowledge and experience. This is what I do, and if you want to be "right" then you should do the same.

Unfortunately, everyone seems to think they know about markets even when they don't. Well I do. And this is congresses fault, not the fault of speculation. If congress would just do something rational then those speculators would push the price of oil into the basement. They add to volatility, not to price.

[ZULU]

“If congress would just do something rational then those speculators would push the price of oil into the basement. “

What SHOULD they do?