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Why China is No Longer a Communist Country
The China Teaching Web ^ | 7/24/2008 | Robert Vance

Posted on 07/25/2008 2:46:56 AM PDT by robertvance

While Mao’s body has been amazingly preserved since his death in 1976, it seems that his spirit has not survived the test of time. He may lie in eternal peace inside his Mausoleum but the world around him has changed considerably; China is no longer the gray and drab country that it was during Mao’s time. It is now a place where people can dream and then go out and make that dream come true. It is not like the old days. People other than just high government officials can drive cars. Chinese people can do business and store up wealth for themselves. Peasants can go to the university now; finding food to eat is no longer such a grave concern. Just around the corner from where Chairman Mao lies in State, the American restaurant chain McDonald’s is full of Chinese people enjoying greasy food and a cool environment. Inside homes, people can watch Western movies on DVD and even occasionally on state owned television. The world is just a mouse click away for the millions of Chinese people who have access to the Internet. Friends and family are no longer afraid of discussing politics with each other. It is even acceptable to criticize the government behind closed doors. All this is happening as Chairman Mao sleeps peacefully at Tiananmen Square. If only he knew.

(Excerpt) Read more at teachabroadchina.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2008olympics; boycottchina; boycottolympics; ccp; china; communism; fascism; mao; olympics; redchina
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The media still refers to the PRC as communist China but really, it is hard to find much evidence of communism at work in China these days.
1 posted on 07/25/2008 2:46:56 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: robertvance
If you look up official Chinese portals to read a sampling of commentary, there's more diversity of views than in our entire MSM. Chinese are engaged in robust debate.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 07/25/2008 2:50:02 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: robertvance
The world is just a mouse click away for the millions of Chinese people who have access to the Internet. Friends and family are no longer afraid of discussing politics with each other. It is even acceptable to criticize the government behind closed doors.

Internet content is censored. Criticize the government behind closed doors? Is that a joke? When they can assemble publicly and criticize openly without the threat of another Tiannanmen Square incident, I'll believe communism is dead there.

3 posted on 07/25/2008 3:05:37 AM PDT by edpc (Tagline Currently Under Construction)
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To: robertvance
There is a reason Communist China is ruled by the Chinese Communist Party, you don't suppose it might be because they're still a bunch of f'in Commies do you?

No ethics, no morals, the State remains supreme over the individual?

Yeah, that's Communism.

And only a fool or a fellow traveler suggests otherwise.
4 posted on 07/25/2008 3:11:06 AM PDT by mkjessup
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To: edpc
To the extent communism is a system of economic production it is moribund in China. Politically China remains a totalitarian regime.
5 posted on 07/25/2008 3:11:18 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Obama "King of Kings and Lord of Lords")
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To: goldstategop
Chinese are engaged in robust debate.

Yeah, debating the best ways to export their poisonous products and other crap to the West.
6 posted on 07/25/2008 3:13:38 AM PDT by mkjessup (This message brought to you by the Happy Toothpaste & Antifreeze Plant #9, Szechuan Communist China)
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To: robertvance

Yes now they are National Socialist, Nazis.


7 posted on 07/25/2008 3:16:21 AM PDT by bmwcyle (If God wanted us to be Socialist, Karl Marx would have been born in America.)
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To: bmwcyle

You apologize to all those other Nazis, right now! LOL


8 posted on 07/25/2008 3:17:19 AM PDT by mkjessup (This message brought to you by the Happy Toothpaste & Antifreeze Plant #9, Szechuan Communist China)
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To: All

9 posted on 07/25/2008 3:19:55 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!)
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To: mkjessup

Yea right.


10 posted on 07/25/2008 3:28:20 AM PDT by bmwcyle (If God wanted us to be Socialist, Karl Marx would have been born in America.)
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To: robertvance

Socially - Completely Communist
Externally - Economically Capitalist
Internally - Economically Communist
2 out of 3...


11 posted on 07/25/2008 3:50:38 AM PDT by milky
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To: mkjessup
They at least have a debate! What is it our MSM is doing? Mao would have liked to receive that kind of coverage! I really can't tell a Chinese we allow a variety of different views in our own press.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

12 posted on 07/25/2008 3:50:53 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: robertvance

I’ve been in China since mid-June. Even party members tell me that “Communist” is now just a brand name. China is more capitalistic than Britain, Canada, or just about any other major democracy.

I read with amazement the other day the main op-ed piece in one of China’s government newspapers. The writer stated that the people of China must have the right to engage in civil disobedience as long as they don’t try to overthrow the government.

This is not the China of 20 years ago. Satellite dishes are everywhere and they’re pulling in uncensored TV from Taiwan and other democracies. One party member told me, “Thank God for America bringing capitalism to China.”

Clearly the government still holds great authoritarian control, but the point has come where so many freedom “genies” can’t be put back in the lamp.


13 posted on 07/25/2008 3:58:11 AM PDT by compound w
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To: mkjessup

“And only a fool or a fellow traveler suggests otherwise. “

This kind of argument just stinks.


14 posted on 07/25/2008 3:59:14 AM PDT by compound w
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To: robertvance

> Why China is No Longer a Communist Country

I agree China is not a Communist country; it’s just a corrupt authoritarian one.


15 posted on 07/25/2008 3:59:36 AM PDT by bluejay
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To: goldstategop

There is much more balance on the average China news channel than on MSNBC, without doubt. And now more and more Chinese are able to pull in news channels from Taiwan and the US.

The people who deny this without having looked into the matter are simply living in the past.


16 posted on 07/25/2008 4:01:25 AM PDT by compound w
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To: robertvance

I made the same point a few months ago on a thread on the subject of unsafe Chinese imports. Since you are already being called a fool or a fellow traveler, you can imagine the reception. All the same, China isn’t Communist. It has developed into a Robber Baron Capitalist state.

In the LONG run this is good news. This seems to be a necessary transitory stage in the development of a major state into a mature power. Dickens wrote of England’s industrial growing pains, and Sinclair Lewis wrote of the US in the same stage.

The thing is in an increasingly wealthy state, the Robber Baron exploitation and disregard for the welfare and growing power of a growing labor class eventually leads to pushback. Labor unions, consumer safety regulations, and mainly an offset to centralized power.

We already see the first glimmerings of this in China but it’s very early in the process. There are decades yet and many setbacks to go.


17 posted on 07/25/2008 4:01:59 AM PDT by tlb
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To: mkjessup

What you are describing is fascism. That is, state directed private ownership with a military/nationalistic twist. Communism typically disallows private investment, especially from foreign nationals ie US outsourcing.


18 posted on 07/25/2008 4:02:24 AM PDT by semantic
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To: bluejay

“I agree China is not a Communist country; it’s just a corrupt authoritarian one.”

Sadly, this is true. But the latter is one hellofa step better than the former, and I’m willing to bet we’ll see more positive changes over time.


19 posted on 07/25/2008 4:03:28 AM PDT by compound w
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To: semantic

That’s a good point, but one should also consider the relaxation that’s occured in terms of public freedom. And as my favorite president used to say, freedom is infectious.


20 posted on 07/25/2008 4:05:25 AM PDT by compound w
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To: compound w
China is somewhere around #1-2; the US is on #6-7.

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage

21 posted on 07/25/2008 4:10:35 AM PDT by semantic
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To: robertvance
One party controls everything with no free and fair elections. There may be no descent! Commie Bastards
22 posted on 07/25/2008 4:20:10 AM PDT by WellyP (How much does Huma know?)
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To: robertvance
Mao’s body has been amazingly preserved since his death in 1976

There's getting to be a cottage industry in preserving the mummies of tinhorn communists. First Lenin, then Stalin, now Mao.

23 posted on 07/25/2008 4:21:59 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: robertvance

Who cares? They are still murderous scumbags that intend to go to war with us at their earliest possibility. And all the while we are emasculating our military by eliminating capabilities right and left, practically shuttering our Navy, not building new air forces and weapons, etc.

China is filled with murderers and they are our enemy.

So, who cares if they are still commie murderers?


24 posted on 07/25/2008 4:32:00 AM PDT by Mobile Vulgus
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To: compound w

What I would expect from someone living there.

Repeat the party line.

P. S. Did you sell your first born? How did you afford the tax for your second child you kept? Or are you childless as your government nearly forces.

P. P. S. Enjoy it now the Olympics will be over soon enough then protesters will once again be shot and the internet heavily censored once again.


25 posted on 07/25/2008 4:32:54 AM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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To: compound w

NO.

It’s very communist. They have just learned that controlled capitalism will make the leaders richer.

Check out their one child “program”. Check out the killing of political prisoners for organ transplants. Get a heart there for $250,000.


26 posted on 07/25/2008 4:35:57 AM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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To: tlb

People who closely read my post will notice I am not defending China. There are still major problems here. I am merely pointing out that the term communist cannot really be applied to China anymore. I like and agree with your term ‘Robber Baron Capitalist State.’

I knew there would be some name calling from people who think that I am suggesting that all is now well in China. There is still alot of changes that need to take place here and I think that especially in this case, patience is needed. China is on the right track....


27 posted on 07/25/2008 4:36:32 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: robertvance

“Mao’s body has been amazingly preserved”

- - - and he is in Hell.


28 posted on 07/25/2008 4:41:13 AM PDT by RoadTest ( Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body.)
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To: ImphClinton

Right. And you obviously did not bother to look at even one of the 150 other odd posts that I have made about China in which I have criticized the government for bad policies like the one child policy

And what ‘party line’ are you talking about exactly? I wrote that the Chinese government still calls itself the Communist Party...they like the label. Take some time and read my article before you make assumptions about what I am saying.

P.S. As a foreigner living in China, I can have as many children as I want.


29 posted on 07/25/2008 4:41:51 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: ImphClinton

China’s one child “program” does not make it a communist country. Nor does the killing of political prisoners for organ transplants.


30 posted on 07/25/2008 4:44:33 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: WellyP

Kind of sounds like Zimbabwe to me. Is Mugabe a Commie?


31 posted on 07/25/2008 4:45:37 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: robertvance

I prefer the term Chicap to the term Chicom to describe a large slice of the Chinese population.

The truth is of course neither. The current status is transitional but it seems the old ways are fading in the face of new opportuity.

The transition will take time, something many are not willing to admit, but the process is clearly underway. To rid the last vestiges, men must grow old and die.


32 posted on 07/25/2008 4:50:33 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Conservation? Let the NE Yankees freeze.... in the dark)
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To: robertvance

A Duck is a Duck whatever you call it.

I am very happy that Nixon began the process that has helped China emerge from being Red China to Communist China. Even happier that China embraces some free market principles.

But there are no elections as with Socialist Countries. The Government maintains a police state mentality they are suspending some enforcement for the Olympics but few doubt this is temporary.

Dictatorships are Communist for the most part. Nasty word but accurate.

Only free elections with real parties will change this. Russia has returned to communism by many accounts, there is only one party allowed there now for all practical reasons. So China is not alone. Zimbawee has also become Communist.


33 posted on 07/25/2008 4:54:45 AM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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To: robertvance

Of course it does.

No democracy would put up with it. Completely against basic human rights that we all feel. Completely devalues life to such an extent it is hardly worth living. Suicides are sky high there because of it. Most girls are aborted or sold into the sex slave trade so parents can have a boy. Men have to buy brides.

China only does the minimum to keep the protest under control.


34 posted on 07/25/2008 5:02:27 AM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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To: robertvance

1. Very major companies (Haier, Lenovo) are OWNED by the Communist Red Chinese government.

2. The government presumes to tell people how many children they can have. If you try to get around it, reactions vary from being physically forced for an abortion and sterilization, to having your family or whole community fined a massive (for them) amount.

3. Catholics and other Christians have to meet state approval, the real Roman Catholic Church does not meet Red Communist Chinese tests because the Pope cannot cede spiritual authority to the Communist Party.

Whatever you want to classify the Red Chinese, they are just as bad as ever. Perhaps worse as they now have economic leverage over the entire world.


35 posted on 07/25/2008 5:18:46 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
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To: robertvance

The Chinese have found a third way between Capitalism and Communism. With the fall of the Soviet Union they realized that Communism as an economic system is not viable. They formed a hybrid system where the totalitarian state is funded by limited capitalism and by using their vast work force to provide cheap goods to the West. The question remains whether they can keep it under control or if they have a tiger by the tail.


36 posted on 07/25/2008 5:43:39 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the hippies.)
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To: robertvance
China is manifesting the Leftist Dream: an oligarchy (composed of themselves, of course) ruling with absolute power over the peasantry.

The ruling oligarchy will live in luxury, of course. They deserve it for, among other things, their good intentions, their benevolent rule, taking care of the peasants, etc.

There's nothing new about this. It's as old as history itself.

That's how Julius Caesar came to power--promising everything to the masses. His heirs, the Julian family, and their heirs, the Roman emperors who followed them, stayed in power by providing the masses with bread, circuses, etc. They themselves lived in opulent luxury, of course, as, in their opinions, they deserved to do.

The medieval nobility consisted of warriors, who "protected" everyone else. In return, they extracted anything they wanted--i.e. enslavement of everyone else, viz. the peasantry, including right to have sex with them, to kill them, to exploit them in any way they chose.

Contemporary Leftists have made themselves from the same mold. They promise protection, bread and circuses, welfare, and end to poverty, the establishment of a Marxist state. They also reserve the rights to liberty, the persuit of happiness, and lives of opulence and luxury for themselver--certainly not for the peasantry (that's you and I).

Take Obama, for instance. He makes over $500,000 a year, is a multimillionaire, lives in a multimillion-dollar house. You think he's got that in mind for you and me?????

37 posted on 07/25/2008 5:47:40 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("Some people are born knowing, and some people will die searching." -Antonio Banderas)
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To: robertvance
When the state owns everything and doles out a portion to each system, "according to their need" then that state is communist.

China may have relaxed it's muscle against the average citizen. In truth, they learned the "carrot and stick" method of governing.

Let them chase the carrot and if they won't perform, then give them the stick.

China's financial foundation may have shifted to a more socialist ideal, but the fact is the state still owns everything, thus they are communist.

Nevermind the human rights abuses, the inability to speak against the political system, openly, etc, etc.

China is communist and you're a frigging moron for not recognizing it, and our government is frigging greedy for not bringing american business back to this country.

38 posted on 07/25/2008 5:50:21 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Dr. Sivana

I mentioned most of those points in my article, especially regarding the human rights situation. I agree with you that the Chinese government has a long way to go but I still stand by my original point that China is no longer a communist country based on its economic transformation in the past 30 years.


39 posted on 07/25/2008 6:30:05 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: semantic
Wait, let me see if my "stimulus check" has arrived.

"Dependency" you say? "Never" says I!

40 posted on 07/25/2008 6:32:05 AM PDT by The Duke (I have met the enemy, and he is named 'Apathy'!)
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To: ImphClinton

Where did I say that China is a democracy? There are a lot of human rights violators out there in the world that we do not label as communists. You don’t have to be communist to be bad.

Here are two articles that I wrote about the one child policy in China.

http://www.teachabroadchina.com/china-one-child-policy-earthquake/

http://www.teachabroadchina.com/girls-one-child-policy/

Believe me...I do not defend the policy in the least bit.


41 posted on 07/25/2008 6:35:56 AM PDT by robertvance
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To: robertvance

It’s still a strongly socialist country, but more of the nationalist type. Anything you own or do is still subject to state control at the whim of the rulers, which is pretty much the definition of fascism.


42 posted on 07/25/2008 6:36:45 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: robertvance
As long as there is no man in China who can expect to live past the point when the Party decides he should die, then China remains Communist. It's not about the economy, it's about the power

What we are seeing is a variation of Lenin's New Economic Policy. The Party is allowing free enterprise in order to create wealth. When there is enough wealth to harvest, the Party will take it and shoot anybody who says anything about it

43 posted on 07/25/2008 6:39:25 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell)
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To: ImphClinton

Troll. You have no idea what you’re talking about.


44 posted on 07/25/2008 6:44:12 AM PDT by compound w
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To: mkjessup
No ethics, no morals, the State remains supreme over the individual?

Democrats?

45 posted on 07/25/2008 6:45:31 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: compound w
"But the latter is one hellofa step better than the former"

Can't say I share your view. Now they have the economic and industrial werewithal not only to crack down on their own populace but to bully and badger the international community more effectively.

Selling us the rope with which they will hang us... And way too many willing to look the other way in the name of 'capitalism'. Sick.
46 posted on 07/25/2008 6:47:01 AM PDT by CowboyJay (There's always 2012...)
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To: compound w

Show me a public assembly criticizing the gov’t without being run over by tanks, and I’ll start to believe you.


47 posted on 07/25/2008 6:47:48 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

I think there have been numerous demonstrations out west in the past couple of months. When they remain peaceful, they get little attention. When they turn violent, they get reported in the news.

It is quite true that they won’t allow any demonstrations in Beijing during the Olympics. But I’ve seen no tanks.

I’ve seen numerous examples of art exhibits protesting for more freedom in China. They don’t get shut down and lots of people visit them.

It’s no “Shangri-la” here, but it’s not like 1989 either.


48 posted on 07/25/2008 6:52:17 AM PDT by compound w
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To: robertvance

You’re right, of course. I suspect that most of the anti-China folks here haven’t been there or haven’t been there recently. People do speak out, not “against the government,” but against government policies. This seems to be tolerated as long as you don’t touch one of the “third rails” — e.g., Taiwan independence, overthrowing the party, etc.

As long as we’re being provocative, I’ll go a couple steps further:

1. There is more freedom in China today than there was in the American south up to the civil rights movement.

2. China moves toward more freedom for its people while nations like England and Canada often seem to be moving in the opposite direction.

3. If Ayn Rand woke up today in Shanghai or Beijing and took a walk around, she’d ask in amazement, “When were the Communists defeated?”


49 posted on 07/25/2008 7:00:46 AM PDT by compound w
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To: robertvance
I agree with you that the Chinese government has a long way to go but I still stand by my original point that China is no longer a communist country based on its economic transformation in the past 30 years.

You could also argue that China was no longer Marxist-Leninist as soon as they downplayed the need for worldwide Communist revolution and celebrated "Socialism in One Country", a cry that would be at best paradoxical to a true Communist ideologue. They no longer being Communist may be a distinction without a difference.
50 posted on 07/25/2008 7:16:13 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
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