Skip to comments.Is It Time for Federal Reciprocity of Concealed Carry Permits?
Posted on 08/10/2008 10:50:18 AM PDT by neverdem
Like a lot of people down here in Texas, I keep a gun close at hand. This usually means one in my vehicle and one on my person. Ive kept one in my vehicle for nearly two decades and one on my person since 1998, when I got my first concealed carry permit. Its hard to beat the protection that my concealed carry permit affords my family and friends, even if they arent armed. The fact that I am armed means they are safer when with me whether they realize it or not; and everything from annual FBI crime numbers to state-by-state statistics prove this to be so.
However, when I drive outside the borders of Texas, I have to be careful. In many other states, I cannot keep a loaded gun in the car, and, in some states, I cannot even have my handgun on my person (although I have a Texas license to do so). As a matter of fact, there is such a lack of uniformity amongst the states with concealed carry permits that I cannot even carry my handgun in every state that offers concealed permits to its citizens. This means that when I drive into certain states that offer concealed carry licenses to their citizens but dont recognize the Texas license as valid within their borders, I actually have to unload my gun and lock it in my trunk to be legal.
Have you ever stopped to ask yourself this hard question -- how many criminals give their victims time to open the trunk, grab and load their guns before continuing to attack them? Dont think too hard on that one. You know the answer is none.
To remedy this illogical scenario, the NRA pushed a federal concealed carry law which seemed to gather a lot of steam early, only to have support among congressmen and congresswomen wane. I think its high time we put our voices and our energy behind this effort and let congress know we want to see such a law passed pronto.
There are at least two strong justifications for national reciprocity. The first springs from the Second Amendment itself, where we read that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. With these words, our Founders were hedging in a natural right and thus placing it off limits from federal or state government interference. Moreover, as Justice Antonin Scalia rightly concluded in the Heller case, our Founders did not want a city government -- such as San Francisco, Chicago, or D.C. -- to infringe upon it either. No government constructed by man has the right to deny us the rights that are ours by way of birth.
In other words, laws or policies that infringe upon our natural rights are wrong whether those laws or policies emanate from the President, the Congress, the court system, a state government, or the San Francisco City Council. Our Founders gave no government a veto over natural rights. This is why Ted Nugent is quick and accurate in saying he has a concealed carry permit called the Second Amendment.
Government-issued laws that limit our right to keep and bear arms are infringements on natural law itself. Like the Supreme Court said in the Heller decision, natural rights are preserved by the Constitution, and the right to self-defense is a natural right. Its our right as humans, not something the government granted us out of its good grace.
And because laws that restrict natural rights are in violation of natural law, they are unethical. What could be more unethical than to ban the possession of a weapon that a woman could use to fend off a would-be rapist when it is a given that the rapist, who possesses a criminal mind, will certainly also be in possession of a criminal weapon?
Now approach the problem from a completely different angle -- the fact that some states recognize the concealed carry licenses of certain states but not of others is confounded stupidity. Think about this: Oregon issues concealed carry licenses to citizens in its state and recognizes the concealed carry licenses of states that border Oregon, but if I drive to Oregon, I cannot conceal and carry my handgun because they do not recognize the Texas license. The silly thing about this is that a central part of the Oregon licensing process is an FBI criminal background check and this is also a central part of the Texas licensing process. A federal bureau ultimately decides who does and who doesnt get a concealed carry license in both states, yet the states share no reciprocity regarding the licenses themselves. This is simply too arbitrary to be rational, and it is a perfect example of the illogical, liberal mind.
In an ideal world, if you are old enough to buy a handgun, you should be permitted to carry it; regardless of your city or state residence.
This point is essential: other state-granted licenses -- marriage licenses, drivers licenses and such -- are recognized by every state regardless of their origin. The Constitutions full faith and credit clause mandates that. So why should Massachusetts invite gay couples to go there to marry, confident that other states will have to honor those marriages, when I cant take my handgun into Massachusetts with my Texas license?
Consider the example of the woman fending off rapist once more, but add something else into the mix: she has a concealed carry license from state A which is not recognized in state B, although both states depend upon the FBI for ultimate validation of their licenses. Think of her at a red light, listening to the radio in her car, thinking about how nice it will feel to get to the hotel and relax when suddenly her passengers door is jerked open, a thug jumps in who says he has a gun, and orders her to pull over and undress. She has no recourse, because her gun is locked in the trunk. In an instant, the unethical laws concerning concealed carry reciprocity contribute to immorality because a given state has mandated that the woman remain defenseless.
The inherent weaknesses of concealed carry laws that arent uniform are the same weaknesses that are characteristic of every part of the liberal agenda. The promise made to us is peace and safety, yet liberals lack the power to bring about either while denying us the one thing that could do both: the freedom to exercise our natural rights.
As a conservative, I hold states rights in the highest regard and believe that federal intrusion on state issues has only diminished the level of real self-government in this country (we saw this clearly with abortion in Roe vs. Wade). In truth, I abhor federal intrusion. But in the case of concealed carry licenses, it is already a federal issue; for it is ultimately the federal government, not the states, that decides who will and who will not receive a permit through the work of the FBI.
Therefore, why not push them to go all the way and mandate uniformity in reciprocity that accords with the tenets of the 2nd Amendment? Were this to happen, the woman at the stoplight would still make it back to the hotel for a relaxing night and a call home to say goodnight to her children, even if she had to kill an attacker to do it.
HUMAN EVENTS columnist AWR Hawkins is a Ph.D. candidate at Texas Tech University. His doctoral studies are focused on the U.S. Military and his dissertation on the Civil War era. He has been published on topics including the U.S. Navy, Civil War battles, Vietnam War ideology, the Reagan Presidency, and the Rebirth of Conservatism, 1968-1988. More of his articles can be found at www.awrhawkins.com.
Its PAST time.
One important effect of such an amendment would be that it would enshrine in the Constitution an acknowledgment that people have a right to defend themselves with firearms, a claim which--while bolstered by the Supreme Court--is still going to be under attack for years to come.
So far, at least, the Second Amendment does not give you the right to carry anywhere outside your home.
The one gripe I have with Alito's majority writing is his specific citation that restricting carry from schools is acceptable. It opens up the potential for restrictions in all sorts of places, leaving your home as the only place you can exercise your Second Amendment rights.
I would love to see this happen but I think the 12 without the CC’s would fight this tooth and nail. Perhaps the 38 could ban together as a start?
Your concealed carry license should be exactly like your drivers license. Once you have one it is good in any state of the union. Period!
"Permits" are just another infringement upon a God given right confirmed in the Constitution. If anyone needs a permit, it's the idiots who continually foster the idea we should ask for permission for what is already ours.
So the second amendment for the U.S. Secret Service works like a “living” GPS or something, like it does for a National Guard machine gunner.
Anthony Scalia wrote the majority decision.
It opens up the potential for restrictions in all sorts of places, leaving your home as the only place you can exercise your Second Amendment rights.
I don't read it that way. If the militia is everyone, then everyone should be armed at home. How does a militia perform its duty if they are confined to their homes? To bear arms means to carry. It's not restricted to open carry in the Second Amendment.
Here's what I propose:
Run a loop of Jed Clampet "shootin' for some food,
and up from the ground
came a-bubblin' crude. Oil, that is. Black gold. Texas tea." Rinse and Repeat.
Exactly right! Nobody needs a free speech permit, so how can they justify a CCW permit?
I don’t agree that there should be reciprocity required for concealed carry permits. This is because I am opposed to the very idea of requiring permits for the tools of self defense.
I am still waiting for someone to explain logically what problem concealed carry permits are supposed to solve.
The Second Amendment doesn’t call for required reciprocity of concealed carry permits. It calls for the lifting of any licensing or registration of weapons.
It depends on what law might be passed at the federal level. At present, in view of the Heller decision, I’m afraid that any federal legislation concerning concealed carry would include far too much Eastern-state-style restriction and outright infringement. Once passed, such a law would be hard to get rid of.
I live in Arizona, which is by no means the worst state for firearms laws, though also not the best. CCW permits are easy to get, although I oppose the requirement of any government-issued permit to exercise one’s RKBA. No FOIDs or registration yet either, and a private citizen can sell a gun to another (subject to federal law, of course).
I might favor, as a start, a federal law that simply mandates that no state may impose stricter constraints on CCW than any other state. Picture Vermont rules in all 50!
Asking the state for permission to exercise a right is BS.
Tell it to the judge.
You are, of course, absolutely correct.
But it won’t keep you out of jail if you break an unconstitutional law, no matter how wrong it is.
Liberals, as usual, screwing it up for everyone.
Here's the most recent tally, courtest of jdege.
There are 37 shall issue and 2 unrestricted, Vermont and Alaska. There are 2 no issue and 9 may issue.
Do you actually think that there is not a registry of gun owners, regardless of what the law may say? Certainly some people own some guns of which there is no record, but those of us who ever filled out a 4473 or took out a CCW permit are very definitely on record.
Thank you for saying the obvious.
I am wary of Federal legislation, too. The Feds would try to pre-empt state laws and would put such draconian restrictions on concealed carry that only members of the power elite could get a license. Ordinary people would be banned from getting a license.
In answer to both of your questions: Of course I don’t.
My post #15 already answered them, actually.
And as long as I’m posting, let me point out that the Second Amendment does not give anyone any rights whatsoever. It affirms a right that the people already had before it was written.
Your preaching to the congregation.
What’s next, HOW?
pretty basic idea aint it ???
No government constructed by man has the right to deny us the rights that are ours by way of birth.
Pretty much makes the rest of his argument useless...IF there is grounds for 'full faith & credit' reciprocity, the 2A would already be recognised as FACT, not politics...
The NRA considers Alabama, Connecticut, and Iowa to be in a fourth catagory - “reasonable discretionary”. That is jurisdictions in which the law is written so as to give the issuing authorities discretion, but in which that discretion is used in a responsible manner.
First - all of the so-called “may issue states” grant some discretion to the issuing authority. The MN law allows sheriffs to deny, if they have evidence that the individual might pose a risk. The sheriff can look at a record of DUIs, of various police complaints, etc., and make the judgement that the individual will not be granted a permit. The difference, as I see it, between reasonable discretion and arbitrary discretion, is whether the issuing authority is basing its decision on evidence about the individual.
But in any case, the dividing line between the two is not as clear-cut as it sometimes sounds.
I think the NRA’s is a fair description of Alabama and Connecticut. On Iowa, they’re simply wrong. In Iowa, permits are issued by the county sheriffs, and many sheriffs issue in a reasonable manner. Some refuse to issue at all. Which makes Iowa no different that California.
Nope. It's time to stop recognizing the driver's licenses and vehicle license plates from states that don't reciprocally recognize handgun carry/CCH permits.
As a young enterpernuer in the state of Michigan, traveling businessmen in the Midwest, a Corporation businessman in the state of Illinois, a businessman in the Middle East and South America, a family man, most importantly a twelfth generation American I will stand in full support of the McDonald vs City of Chicago case to be heard by the United States Supreme Court.
What will happen when the Chicago gun ban is defeated.
First, homeowners will be able to defend themselves. He that hath no sword, sell his garment and buy one, Jesus Luke 22:36. Is there any question on this one.
Do you think allowing properly trained citizens to carry a concealed hand gun would actually reduce crime? Absolutely, CCW permits holders would give the handicap, the elderly, single women, the businessman a distinct advantage against the criminal minded individual. However, this advantage will probably not appear in the crime statistics due to the following fact. According to Jon Lott researcher author, firearms are used 2000 times without ever firing a round. These are never reported or the fear of being arrested therefore the statistics may never show the benefit of the armed citizen in the police statistics. See Gary Smith compilation of DOJ, FBI, facts @ http://www.gunfacts.info
Currently, millions of American citizens who are licensed CCW permit holders are made to run the minefield of checkerboard ordinances. These honest citizens should not be made criminals, given felony records, had their firearms taken away, just because they crossed an invisible line. I am a duel CCW permit holder and I know my 10 years of interstate travel I have perhaps committed firearms felonies by crossing some invisible boundary. A real example, it occurred to me just 30 days ago in South Dakota on a hunting trip. On my person I had two CCW permits (different states), hunting license from South Dakota, and the Indian Reservation, and had just spoken with a South Dakota State Trooper who said we could carry anywhere in South Dakota, except inside churches, schools, and bars. Less than two hours later we were pulled over, by national parks police (we had to cross a two-mile strip of land between the hunting grounds and our motel) for a vehicle inspection crossing over a corner of the park. The officer asked did we have drugs or guns. I informed the officer we had all kinds of drugs (heart medication) and guns and he informed me that concealed carry was not legal on that stretch of road and that all firearms must be in their case. Fortunately he did not carry the conversation further, as I had inadvertently broken a federal law after being informed by North Dakota State trooper to the contrary. It is for this reason and others similar reasons that municipalities should not have the right to prohibit concealed carry within their jurisdiction. Because if you allow independent jurisdictions to exist, this will open the flood gates of injustice and mistrust between citizens, law enforcement and community leaders as courts sort through cross an invisible line violations.
Some of the best shall issue states for regulations concerning CCW carry, Texas, Florida, Utah, and Colorado
CCW permit holders, should be allowed to dine out at restaurants not exceed by state law for vehicle driver intoxication standards , drop off their children at school and school zones, entered churches and synagogues, as these are some of the most honest and responsible people in the United States. CCW permit holders should be allowed store their firearms in their vehicles at work sites.
In our society there are citizens who oppose CCW echoing loudly that the wild West guns shoot outs will occur in an uncontrollable nature. CCW has been passed in 48 states, starting with just 13 in 1987 and the Wild West scenario has failed to occur. Five million CCW permit holders in the nation have the lowest criminal contact with law enforcement of any group in the nation because they are solid citizens.
When I travel South (FL) to avoid the winter snow, I must stop on the highway to CCW at the Gary (I-80) Indiana State line. When I returned three months later I must reverse the procedure having CCW carry during the entire trip. I sometimes wonder what would happen a passing motorist saw me put a gun in my holster on the side of the road, as the frantic motorist calls 911 to report a man with a gun. At this point in my trip and being disarmed by the archaic statutes of the state of Illinois does not make me happy, and I am being disarmed in one of the perhaps most crime-ridden communities in the nation, Gary Indiana. People in 48 states trust me to be a responsible citizen, but the people of Illinois want to make me a felon by a state ordinance rather than honoring the Second amendment constitutional right.
State of Illinois should have the following permit requirements for the following reasons.
When a CCW citizen is walking down the street, driving in his vehicle, entering a restaurant, grocery store, hardware store, that CCW citizen is taking on a responsibility, and mindset that is different. It is for that reason, Proper training in firearms safety, reason for CCW holsters, situational awareness, the five rules of concealed carry weapon, Illinois rules of CCW, firearms proficiency, legal ramifications drawing the handgun and even firing, what should you do been involved in a shooting police have yet to arrive, procedures for handling encounters with law enforcement officers, and social responsibility. Minimum age requirement, FBI fingerprint check, passing a background check, attending a certified safety class, demonstrating firearms proficiency with a certified trainer would be on my checklist.
Comments regarding gun free zones. As mentioned earlier any CCW permit holder who goes through the rigorous training routines for CCW permits are some of the most honest, trustworthy, and commit less crime than any other group. It is for this reason that there should be very few gun free zones for several logical reasons. First, the safest place for CCW firearm is holster securely attached to the permit holder. To require permit holders to arm and disarm just outside of a gun free zone is inviting accidental discharges, neighborhood paranoia should a CCW permit holder be observed. As mentioned earlier restaurants that serve alcohol, school drop zones, and churches should not be included in gun free zones. The logic and reason incorporating this legal standard is that mass shooters and other parts of the country have always chosen gun free zones to pull off their murderous terrorism. Two women who are CCW permit holders,
Ms. Jean Assam, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqDVBWcBy2g
and Ms. Suzanne Hupp, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f12XrQ6H0Og
who have survived gun free zones shooting tell their story here. Therefore The legal requirement for gun free zones should be a state designed standard sign that can be displayed by the entity if they so choose. Violation should be a minor monetary fine.
Eleven years ago I had not handled a firearm in 40 years. Over the last 10 years, I have been become a avid sportsman, and marksman with the long gun. I have been one of the fortunate 100 people in the State of Illinois who trains and competes with federal, state, local, and county law enforcement officers in a Police Pistol League. Members of the club have access some of the best law enforcement firearms training programs in the nation, have increased my proficiency by taking 40 hours advanced pistol, deployment of a rifle or shotgun from a patrol vehicle, breach or entry tactics, room clearing tactics in addition to other classes. It is not necessary to take this type of training the CCW licensed. The reason I mention this is to let you know that my comments are based in fact not of opinion. If I can be of any assistance to you in your endeavor please do not hesitate to contact me.
Landlord and wife
See Guy Smith compilation of DOJ, FBI, facts @ http://www.gunfacts.info