Skip to comments.Russia seizes Georgia base, opens second front
Posted on 08/11/2008 8:16:28 AM PDT by Jeff Head
TBILISI, Georgia Russia opened a second front of fighting in Georgia on Monday, sending armored vehicles beyond two breakaway provinces and seizing a military base and police stations in the country's west, the Georgian government and a Russian official said.
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
Thanks Jeff. I coincidentally found another map. The pipline runs through a town south of Tiblisi, which in turn is south of Gori.
Agree with post #20.
Dude, Nukes? Are you insane?
The allies of Russia that have left them did so by their own choice after the breakup. Georgia certainly is not wanting to be mauled by the Bear.
We need to act in whatever prudent and measured way we can to blunt this land and oil grab. There will certainly be a long term repsone to this...but we do have a window of opportunity before Tiblisi actually falles, to make some progress in the short term.
But that is just my opinion...others clearly feel differently.
Clearly though, how we react to this test, will have consequences in how we are perceived and who trusts us and how much they trust us for a long time to come.
this is where the rubber meets the road - it was one thing to let them secure S. Otessia, but a completely different matter to retake Georgia . . .
How about if they assault the Ukraine?
The Baltic States?
The United States?
At what point in this progression should we confront them?
If he hadn’t made a speech in Georgia and spefically expressed support of them...
this test, will have consequences in how we are perceived ............................................................................................You got that right Jeff, something in the way of a response has to be made, a message has to be sent.
IMO, this is payback as much as anything else. Poopin has been itching for some way to bring an ‘in your face’ moment to the United States for a number of perceived insults we have given him. Bombing Serbia, recognizing Kosovo, supporting NATO on his doorstep, missile defense in Poland, military training in Georgia, Poopin was desperate to teach us a lesson.
I do agree with there being ulterior motives. There are certainly bonuses included.
IMO, we would do well to think long and hard about getting involved in Georgia. IMO, we’re not just talking about Georgia here. Poopin is signaling that he will take over any territory he likes if we don’t give in on every subject in the future.
Should we allow that to stand? Do we want to write off every state that left the Soviet fold? Do we want to write off Poland and other nations as well?
I don’t think this is going to be an easy thing to just ignore. Russia needs a bloody nose, before it thinks it can rule the playground.
I don’t like the idea of it, but this could get very ugly if we don’t put our foot down.
This is the reason why we should never have adopted the one theater level of military preparedness.
Spot on...on all counts IMHO. Now, we have to respond toi it...and sweet talk, or low key dimplomacy will not in the least deter Putin.
< march1939> While we are indeed friends with Czechoslovakia, it is ridiculous though to think we should get involved in a direct war with Germany over this.< /march1939>
Strategically, I think you’re addressing the hard truth of this. Poopin is rolling out a new policy, and he either gets his hand cut off here, or he extends this treatment to other states as well. Seems to me this is when you make your stand.
We either make this ass-hat pay, or he’s going to do this again and again.
The Baltic States?
The United States?
........................................These are all part of NATO, much different scenario, Georgia is not unfortunatley and Russia wants to make sure they never will be.
“This is the reason why we should never have adopted the one theater level of military preparedness.”
Russians take Gori.
“Because the anti-war American left is just that...anti-American and much more closely aligned with our enemies than with our own traditional national interests or underlying priniciples.”
You WILL take notice that “all The Usual Leftist Suspects” are quite silent about this Russian agression?
Why are they not screaming for Putin’s impeachment?
I don’t know if they want to occupy the whole country, I think what they might be doing is moving in deeper to totally destory the Georgian military, base by base and unit by unit, then they’ll probably pull back and occupy South Ossetia once they feel its crippled.
It does seem that, at a minimum, GWB could cut short his China vacation. Maybe if he gave up women volleyball players for the Oval Office, our government wouldn’t be flailing for direction.
The Russians have been playing large scale war games in the area. I'm sure we and the Georgian President knew it. Why he picked this time to try and reclaim that city is a mystery to me. It may have been a fatal mistake for his country.
And just what do you think the U.S. is going to do with all those military assets. So far just talk with the Iranians smirking at us. I don't think we will take any action against Iran and they will pretty much continue doing what they please vis a vis nuclear weapons.
We need Russias co-operation over Iran and derailing that over a localised conflict in Georgia makes no sense. “
Boy, this NSC official holds out much more hope in this situation than I can muster.
Cooperation over Iran sounds like a misplaced hope. Why should the country that has supplied Iran with the wherewithal to nuclearize suddenly turn against their best interests. Russia needs Iran in their camp to maintain a real foothold in the ME and proximity to those energy deposits. If they can gain a clear pathway to Iran and as a result gain control over the export of much of the Caspian energy deposits it will be a double win.
The next necessary step is for Russia to respond positively to Georgias ceasefire declaration.
I’m afraid that’s more necessary from out point of view than Russia’s. Georgia has repeatedly asked for a ceasefire and the Kremlin won’t take their calls. Right now a ceasefire will be accepted on Russia’s terms and timetable and at this point it doesn’t appear they’ve accomplished all their objectives.
It’s FAR more likely that this was the last straw for Putin...
“Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan launch project to revive “Silk Road” on rails”
Leaders of Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan launched Thursday a railway project between the three countries, with laying the foundation of the railway’s 76-kilometres part. Turkish president called the project is open to “all other regional countries”, implying Armenia.
At a railway station in the eastern Turkish border town of Kars, Turkish President Abdullah Gul, Georgia’s Mikheil Saakashvili and Azerbaijan’s Ilham Aliyev held a ground breaking ceremony for the $290 million Turkish section of the railway.
The three countries are already linked by the BP-led Baku-Ceyhan oil pipeline and the Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum gas line but trade links between Turkey and the Caucasus region are limited.
A tender last September for construction of the 76-km (47-mile) Turkish stretch of the railway was won by the Ozgun Yapi-Celikler joint venture with a bid of $289.8 million, the lowest of 14 bids.
The railroad is expected to become operational in 2011 and carry one million passangers and 6.5 million tones of cargo annually, forming a key transport connection between Asia and Europe, officials said Thursday.
It is seen very important since it will enable the Central Asian republics, worlds new oil and natural gas centers with an uninterrupted railway link.
I think we can do so, particularly when we send those aircraft full of Georgian troops into Georgia. We warn the Russians, very directly that those aicraft are coming in with full escort and that the Russians better just stand back out of the way...and we say it forcefully and openly.
There should be a full and heavy escort of Raptors with them, and with supporting tankers and AWACS. That air armada should also include aircraft capable of ground support and wild weasel missions so if the Russians do try and attack the transports and give us the excuse, then we return on their heads what they are doing to the Gerogians and blunt their offensive.
The reason we would take such a risk is preciesly because of the ramifications you state.
Well then why did he say it? Why bother saying The path of freedom you have chosen is not easy, but you will not travel it alone. Americans respect your courageous choice for liberty. And as you build a free and democratic Georgia, the American people will stand with you.”?
So knowing that this little nation isn’t worth us going to war over, he said it anyway? That sounds like a lie to me.
Area around Gori earlier.
We have been sending the wrong signals to our enemies for years.
We cozy up to them economically. We signal we’re going to cut our forces. We signal that we aren’t going to interfere as they make demands.
And then they act on our stupidity. Well, here we are.
All those who have been defending our acts of stupidity should be happy as can be at this eventuality.
“So knowing that this little nation isnt worth us going to war over, he said it anyway? That sounds like a lie to me.”
Not sure we can help their leadership being idiots.
“We cozy up to them economically.”
And the Russians are already threatening The Baltic States and Poland, saying 'They will pay' for their support for Georgia. The time to stop aggression is at its first attack. If France and Germany had stopped Germany at any of its early military aggression, the German General Staff had plans to kick Hitler out. They couldn't believe how weak the West was over the Sudetenland, Austria, Checoslovakia. By that time Hitler had them convinced that the West would never resist. Doesn't anybody even here on Free Republic know any history?
We’ve got the munitions that will take out whole rows of those tanks with a single shot. Poopin needs to see what he is up against. If he thinks he’s king of the block any longer, he’s in for a big surprise.
I agree. It doesn't help that most of congress is vacationing (thanks Nancy...)
Unfortunately, Georgia isn’t the place for that...
I think it’s gonna get MIGHTY COLD in Europe this winter.
well if the Georgian military parks its behind in the middle of Tlbisi square . . . are the Russians going to shell the capital . . .
at this point, i’m not ready to form an opinion as to the Russians intentions . . . you may be right, but i think they want to install a pupet govt in there
IMHO. we need to force his hand. Send in the Georgian Iraq troops on our transports...escort those transports with Raptors...and then turn it into a 24X7 air lift, with US a growing US CAP, and dare the Putin to do anything about it as the Georgian troops, with our material, begin to decimate his armor formations.
Well, I was dead set against Europe setting itself up like this, but they considered themselves smarter than everyone else. We’ll see how it plays out. You very well could be right. All the more reason to kick Poopin’s ass all the way back to the Russian border.
For once, I agree with you.
These are quickly becoming Interesting times.
Its dangerous for the US to act...but perhaps vastly more dangerous not to act.
I suggest sending an unmistakable signal...and killing 2 birds with one stone.
A massive attack on all Iranian underground nuclear research sites using nuclear bunker busters. There would be no significant radioactive contamination and the whole world would quake as the news broke. Follow up with the greatest shock and awe conventional attack of all time on Iranian infrastructure...have no mercy, leave them in the dark ages. Take control of their oil fields to ensure their safety. Rebuild Iran on their own dime...this time actually use their oil revenue to rebuild...not US taxpayers money. Unleash Israel, tell them it is time to clean out all the trash.
Raise the Defcon level just prior to the attack on Iran...the Russians would know immediately...the sweat would pour in Moscow.
Supply Georgia with an enormous supply of anti-aircraft munitions, cluster weapons, millions of mines of all types and real-time surveillance of all Russian forces. It would be nice if there were some F22 trained Georgian pilots. Tell the Nato countries to admit Ukrain and Georgia (minus the 2 breakaway areas) immediately or the US will withdraw from the alliance and leave them to their own fates.
We would not be in this mess if we had not made an ass of ourselves over Kosovo :-( The legacy of the Clintons lives on..and was made worse by Bushs recognition of Kosovo. And if not for Carter, Iran would be a US ally instead of what it is now.
We are in a position now where inaction will cause every despot on the planet to lose fear of US power...and a world without US power would be a frightening place to live.
Taking action will cause great economic hardship...but there are things far worse than being hit in the pocketbook.
We need a Churchill in times like these....I like to read Churchill in bad times.
Winston Churchill quotes.
One ought never to turn ones back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities... because it is the quality which guarantees all others.
I never worry about action, but only about inaction.
If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.
If you have an important point to make, dont try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack.
In war as in life, it is often necessary when some cherished scheme has failed, to take up the best alternative open, and if so, it is folly not to work for it with all your might.
It is no use saying, We are doing our best. You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.
Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Some people regard private enterprise as a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look on it as a cow they can milk. Not enough people see it as a healthy horse, pulling a sturdy wagon.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
The first quality that is needed is audacity.
The power of an air force is terrific when there is nothing to oppose it.
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after theyve tried everything else.
And here is a good quote to go along with my overly long post.
The length of this document defends it well against the risk of its being read.
No one in his right mind turns their back on the Russian bear. While he should play the bear along and give him his due, one should never believe the bear shares the same values of Western liberalism that we breathe like air. When Bush first met Putin and said he had looked into Putin's eyes and said, "I was able to get a sense of his soul, a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country," I knew he was a half-wit.
When did they start calling Russia's military "peacekeepers"?
Thanks for the report/article