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Russia seizes Georgia base, opens second front
AP ^ | Aug 11, 2008 | MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI

Posted on 08/11/2008 8:16:28 AM PDT by Jeff Head

TBILISI, Georgia — Russia opened a second front of fighting in Georgia on Monday, sending armored vehicles beyond two breakaway provinces and seizing a military base and police stations in the country's west, the Georgian government and a Russian official said.

GEORGIAN FORCES

RUSSIAN FORCES


(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: caucasus; energy; geopolitics; georgia; georgianconflict; russia; russianinvasion; southossetia; war
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To: McGruff

You’re right, it is too easy *L*


251 posted on 08/11/2008 10:28:34 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: Travis McGee
Georgia is one thing. Ukraine and Poland are another. Like comparing the invasion of Connecticut to the invasion of California and Oregon.

Certainly it is more difficult, but it is their intention if they could pull it off. They be trying very hard and very obviously to make a causus belli out of Ukraine and Poland's reaction to the Georgia conflict.

252 posted on 08/11/2008 10:29:12 AM PDT by Texas Federalist
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To: DoughtyOne
I agree with just about everything you and Jeff Head have posted this morning. This is a very scary situation and we need to handle it exactly right and so far I'm afraid we're missing the boat. I hope that President Bush makes the kind of statement you've outlined and does so immediately!

We can not stand by and watch a staunch ally...one of the few in the world who has stood by us in Iraq...get destroyed by Russia. It would be immoral and detrimental to our National Interests. Inaction on our part at this point will destroy the faith and confidence of our remaining allies.

253 posted on 08/11/2008 10:30:09 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: autumnraine

NATO NEEDS TO REACT WITH A POWERFUL RESPONSE!!


254 posted on 08/11/2008 10:31:09 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: NYC Republican

Yep, that’s a favorite tactic of the Russian apologists (Putin’s lackeys). Just like Obama, they love to agitate by playing the race card... I suppose the fact that it is Putin and their government that we abhor, and not the decent citizens of Russia doesn’t mean a thing... Of course, it wouldn’t benefit their agenda here to admit it. Especially now that they have already repeated the accusation many times.


255 posted on 08/11/2008 10:31:09 AM PDT by LibertyRocks (LR's BLOG: http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com)
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To: DoughtyOne
And that’s where the President’s ability to communicate is vitally important.

Great. They're screwed. The President couldn't even talk the Wal-Mart customer service desk into letting him return something without a receipt.

256 posted on 08/11/2008 10:32:03 AM PDT by Texas Federalist
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To: eastforker
I think the Turks would back whatever we did...maybe not go it alone at this point, but they would back us up.

But we will hvae to lead.

It is way outside their interests economically, militarily, and politically to see the Bear gobble up Georgia and come that much closer to them...and in the process destroy the economics they are building in the region.

257 posted on 08/11/2008 10:33:17 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Mo1
If anyone hasn't read this you must. McCain warns Russians of "severe, long-term negative consequences". He gets it.
258 posted on 08/11/2008 10:33:41 AM PDT by McGruff (Georgia = friend. Russia = enemy.)
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To: McGruff

“And in the next 10 mins. or it may be to late. “

The European Council is supposed to meet sometime early this week to figure out how to solve this problem.

And it will certainly be over by then.


259 posted on 08/11/2008 10:33:43 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: DoughtyOne
I’m sure you agree with a lot of this, so please don’t think I’m railing on you for some reason. I’m not.

I didn't you were railing me ... and imo, I think Russia will eventually go for more then just Georgia

260 posted on 08/11/2008 10:34:57 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: pgkdan

Yes, our allies would get a clear message and Russia would as well. That’s a terrible combination.

Thanks for your note of agreement.


261 posted on 08/11/2008 10:35:00 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: kristinn


The Big Question: Will the presumptive Democratic
candidate for president speak out?

.


262 posted on 08/11/2008 10:36:17 AM PDT by OESY
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To: UCANSEE2

I think you’re seeing things very clearly, frankly. Oh how I wish this were not happening... I was afraid of this for a while now.


263 posted on 08/11/2008 10:36:23 AM PDT by LibertyRocks (LR's BLOG: http://libertyrocks.wordpress.com)
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To: Texas Federalist

You and I sure agree on that. I will tell you though, there are some folks who have convinced themselves that he’s a great orator. Based on what, I don’t know.


264 posted on 08/11/2008 10:36:23 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: autumnraine

“Russia is helping us with Iran...”

What a joke! Does anyone really think Russia is helping with Iran?


265 posted on 08/11/2008 10:36:54 AM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: autumnraine

What’s BUSH waiting for. He should have left the Olympics the minute the Russians entered Georgia. Its time to start talking to the Turks and firing up some American Planes over Georgia.

Tell the Russians that they can protect Russians, but we and the Turks will help out with keeping the peace in Georgia and insure that Georgia’s sovereignty is maintained.


266 posted on 08/11/2008 10:36:55 AM PDT by Schwarzeneger
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To: Mo1

Good, I’m glad. We’re in agreement here. Take care.


267 posted on 08/11/2008 10:37:31 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Not just on this, but on the domestic drilling issue as well.

I feel like every one of our leaders has bailed, except the few remaining Congressmen in revolt.


268 posted on 08/11/2008 10:37:55 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Mo1

Reuters confirming on the ground. Interesting.


269 posted on 08/11/2008 10:38:29 AM PDT by commonguymd (A de facto single party country is nigh. The partisan bickering is a mere bilking mechanism.)
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To: pgkdan

“Inaction on our part at this point will destroy the faith and confidence of our remaining allies. “

Our enemies will certainly do their part to make the most out of any ‘inaction’. (that includes the MSM)


270 posted on 08/11/2008 10:38:31 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: DoughtyOne

President Bush needs to make it clear that the U.S. will respond militarily should Russia take over Georgia. But only after he makes a strong effort to avoid war. His presence in Tblisi tonight or tomorrow would tell the Russians how utterly serious we take this. Anything less and Tblisi falls by the end of the week.


271 posted on 08/11/2008 10:39:20 AM PDT by kristinn
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To: Mo1
Here is what I would say:

The invasion of the sovereign state of Georgia is primarily a European matter. The United States stands ready to carry out its NATO responsibilities fully if NATO and the EU decide to take leadership and oppose this aggression.

The United States recognizes the historical parallels of the decisions facing Europe today and the United States promises not to tarry, or be late in responding if Europe and NATO determines to reverse this aggression.

Obviously I will never be President. But Europe broiled us alive for LEADING in the War on Terror. Now the threat is directly aimed at their heart and THEY must either lead in a united manner or replay the Sudetenland. They have rejected our leadership and stood against us at every turn....now it is their turn to take the reins...or not.


272 posted on 08/11/2008 10:39:26 AM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: cripplecreek

Poland, 1939.


273 posted on 08/11/2008 10:40:16 AM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: Schwarzeneger

I’m sure Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.


274 posted on 08/11/2008 10:41:46 AM PDT by Schwarzeneger
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To: DonaldC

They are being idiots by claiming what is their territory?

If Mexico claimed border town in Texas or Arizona, would we be “idiots” for fighting them?


275 posted on 08/11/2008 10:42:05 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: DoughtyOne
Here's most of McCain's comments/speach on the issue today.

Americans wishing to spend August vacationing with their families or watching the Olympics may wonder why their newspapers and television screens are filled with images of war in the small country of Georgia. Concerns about what occurs there might seem distant and unrelated to the many other interests America has around the world. And yet Russian aggression against Georgia is both a matter of urgent moral and strategic importance to the United States of America.

"Georgia is an ancient country, at the crossroads of Eastern Europe and Central Asia, and one of the world’s first nations to adopt Christianity as an official religion. After a brief period of independence following the Russian revolution, the Red Army forced Georgia to join the Soviet Union in 1922. As the Soviet Union crumbled at the end of the Cold War, Georgia regained its independence in 1991, but its early years were marked by instability, corruption, and economic crises.

"Following fraudulent parliamentary elections in 2003, a peaceful, democratic revolution took place, led by the U.S.-educated lawyer Mikheil Saakashvili. The Rose Revolution changed things dramatically and, following his election, President Saakashvili embarked on a series of wide-ranging and successful reforms. I’ve met with President Saakashvili many times, including during several trips to Georgia.

"What the people of Georgia have accomplished – in terms of democratic governance, a Western orientation, and domestic reform – is nothing short of remarkable. That makes Russia’s recent actions against the Georgians all the more alarming. In the face of Russian aggression, the very existence of independent Georgia – and the survival of its democratically-elected government – are at stake.

"In recent days Moscow has sent its tanks and troops across the internationally recognized border into the Georgian region of South Ossetia. Statements by Moscow that it was merely aiding the Ossetians are belied by reports of Russian troops in the region of Abkhazia, repeated Russian bombing raids across Georgia, and reports of a de facto Russian naval blockade of the Georgian coast. Whatever tensions and hostilities might have existed between Georgians and Ossetians, they in no way justify Moscow’s path of violent aggression. Russian actions, in clear violation of international law, have no place in 21st century Europe.

"The implications of Russian actions go beyond their threat to the territorial integrity and independence of a democratic Georgia. Russia is using violence against Georgia, in part, to intimidate other neighbors – such as Ukraine – for choosing to associate with the West and adhering to Western political and economic values. As such, the fate of Georgia should be of grave concern to Americans and all people who welcomed the end of a divided of Europe, and the independence of former Soviet republics. The international response to this crisis will determine how Russia manages its relationships with other neighbors. We have other important strategic interests at stake in Georgia, especially the continued flow of oil through the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which Russia attempted to bomb in recent days; the operation of a critical communication and trade route from Georgia through Azerbaijan and Central Asia; and the integrity and influence of NATO, whose members reaffirmed last April the territorial integrity, independence, and sovereignty of Georgia.

"Yesterday Georgia withdrew its troops from South Ossetia and offered a ceasefire. The Russians responded by bombing the civilian airport in Georgia’s capital, Tblisi, and by stepping up its offensive in Abkhazia. This pattern of attack appears aimed not at restoring any status quo ante in South Ossetia, but rather at toppling the democratically elected government of Georgia. This should be unacceptable to all the democratic countries of the world, and should draw us together in universal condemnation of Russian aggression.

"Russian President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government’s actions will have for Russia’s relationship with the U.S. and Europe.

The Obama camp has bee practically silent on it...but, of course, we have to remember that Obama is on vacation and probably shouldn't be disturbed.
276 posted on 08/11/2008 10:42:19 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: r9etb
I stated a fact. If you can't handle it, that's your problem. To call it bitching or moaning is absolutely stupid. Address your stupid comments to someone else.
277 posted on 08/11/2008 10:42:46 AM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: Schwarzeneger
Its time to start talking to the Turks and firing up some American Planes over Georgia.

Tell the Russians that they can protect Russians, but we and the Turks will help out with keeping the peace in Georgia and insure that Georgia’s sovereignty is maintained.

Exactly.

278 posted on 08/11/2008 10:44:09 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: kristinn
Russia Forces Move to Within 35 Miles of Tbilisi. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 'game over'.
279 posted on 08/11/2008 10:44:11 AM PDT by McGruff (Georgia = friend. Russia = enemy.)
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To: kristinn

Thank you for your additional thoughts Kristinn.


280 posted on 08/11/2008 10:46:13 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: isrul
I stated a fact.

lol ... no, you stated a typical isrul "the world is going to end because they're not doing what I think they should do" whine.

So get off your ass and do something, if you're so sure of what needs doing!

281 posted on 08/11/2008 10:47:13 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: isrul
And there will be none.

Uh, how can that, be a fact? It hasn't happened yet.

You may end up being right, and I hope you are not...but to posit that a statement about what is going to happen is a fact is just not so.

We have a window of opportuity to act and I hope and pray we will. What we do in the next 2-3 days as regards Georgia and its defense could well establish a pattern for the good or bad of our national interests for years to come.

282 posted on 08/11/2008 10:48:46 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Arkinsaw
Obviously I will never be President. But Europe broiled us alive for LEADING in the War on Terror. Now the threat is directly aimed at their heart and THEY must either lead in a united manner or replay the Sudetenland. They have rejected our leadership and stood against us at every turn....now it is their turn to take the reins...or not.

They won't unless they have no other choice .. and that is still in question

283 posted on 08/11/2008 10:49:29 AM PDT by Mo1
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To: Bobalu

“It’s dangerous for the US to act...but perhaps vastly more dangerous not to act.”

You said it. I have felt this way from the start and unfortunately, some take it be rah rah rah, I want war. That is not it at all. But to not act would be a bigger mistake and create a bigger problem down the road. As ole Barney Fife says “Nip it in the bud. Nip it Nip it Nip it!”


284 posted on 08/11/2008 10:49:42 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Prophet in the wilderness; Jeff Head
RUSSIA ? MSM ? LIBERALS ? NO BLOOD FOR CASPIN OIL !!! Were is all the anti-war protesters in all this ? why are they not protesting Russia's actions ?

I read the comments section on the UK Independents article on the war. It's a lefty publication and it was full of "Good for the Russians." "Nice to see friends of Bush get poked in the eye". "It's all Bush's fault" and "It's good to see Russia do this, they need to counter-balance the REAL Evil Empire".

I haven't been over to Dummieland, but I'm sure it's the same nonsense.

This reminds me that while we can feel for the Georgians we have lots of problems of our own that are more pressing including a huge subversive fifth column of self-hating leftists in our midst.

There is also an obvious corrallary between the Russian excuses for this war, and the future excuses that the Aztlan groups will make for sucession of the heavily Latino parts of the USA. (Protecting Mexican passport holders against Yankee depredations in the areas of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California.)

285 posted on 08/11/2008 10:49:46 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: McGruff

NATO should attack Russian vessels off Georgia coast, sink a few. Isolate Russian marines on beachhead.


286 posted on 08/11/2008 10:50:06 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: E. Cartman

Who is a half-wit. Putin or Bush?


287 posted on 08/11/2008 10:50:19 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Jeff Head
But we will hvae to lead.

No, THEY have to lead this time. They have broiled us alive for attempting to lead in the War on Terror. This is aimed directly at Europe. Time for THEM to lead one.

France put obstacles in our way because they saw gains for France in a "multipolar world" and allied with Russia to poke our eye. Now they have it. If they want something done about this Sudetenland then THEY CAN ASK.
288 posted on 08/11/2008 10:50:21 AM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: demshateGod

“Does anyone really think Russia is helping with Iran?”

I think statements like that are merely playing cards in a diplomat’s hands.


289 posted on 08/11/2008 10:50:33 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Mo1

Haha good point. Yeah, if they are Russian, they are “peacekeepers”. If they Georgian, they are “Attackers”.

Got to love the media.


290 posted on 08/11/2008 10:51:23 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: McGruff

The Fat Lady is singing the Russian National Anthem.


291 posted on 08/11/2008 10:51:45 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: mass55th

Putin didn’t start it. The idiot Georgians did.


292 posted on 08/11/2008 10:52:06 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jeff Head

Well John seems to understand the significance of this action by Russia. I’ll bet he doesn’t share your view of what we should do right now. And that’s the problem. In the end, his views won’t have caused him to do anything more than Obama would in this situation, most likely nothing.


293 posted on 08/11/2008 10:52:24 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: elfman2

Yes. If we allow Russia to overtake Georgia, they will have Europe by the balls. For that matter, why isn’t Europe more interested in this? Militarily I mean, not just chit chat with Russia. They will be owned by Russia if they allow this.


294 posted on 08/11/2008 10:53:11 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: autumnraine

“If Mexico claimed border town in Texas or Arizona, would we be “idiots” for fighting them?”

Hasn’t that ship already sailed?

: )


295 posted on 08/11/2008 10:53:36 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: elfman2

Oh you are so so right. Having a good time at the games is not what needs to get out. What kind of message is this sending to the world to have our leader smiling and happy watching a foot race while a country that sacrificed it’s own men to help us is being stomped out?


296 posted on 08/11/2008 10:55:01 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Arkinsaw
The reality is that we will have to lead or no one will.

We too have interests in this...a staunbch ally who readily answered our call for military help, a strategic tie into the Caspian region and the Stan states, oil from those regions.

If we do not act, as I said, no one will, and we will also be the worse for it...and the opening move in Putins re-establishment of the block states will go un-opposed and he will proceed with his next moves emboldened.

297 posted on 08/11/2008 10:55:24 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

“What we do in the next 2-3 days as regards Georgia and its defense could well establish a pattern for the good or bad of our national interests for years to come. “

Yep. And every step of the path, in the coming days, is littered with landmines.


298 posted on 08/11/2008 10:56:52 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Jack Black
What I see coming in all of this and the Presidential campaign is the liberals truly showing their true colors in that they won't be able to hide or be deceptive anymore.
Liberalism, the MSM, Democrats are truly the subversive force of the communist that have infiltrated our country since the Bolsheviks took control of Russia 90 years ago.
299 posted on 08/11/2008 10:58:06 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: Jeff Head
The Obama camp has been practically silent on it...but, of course, we have to remember that Obama is on vacation and probably shouldn't be disturbed.

This is one of the Obama campaign's worst nightmares -- truly a "3:00 am" moment, in the sense that it's a crisis of the worst kind: it's a surprise, for one thing; and it clearly demands a response, although the wrong response could have dire consequences; and the required response is not even remotely obvious; and even the correct response is likely to have ugly side-effects. Obama's "nice talk" approach is clearly inadequate to a situation where thousands have already died.

Normal folks are going to look at this episode, and probably Iran as well, and they're going to see Obama in a very unflattering light. McCain has already begun pinging on the "Obama's not ready to lead" line, and this is going to give red meat to the claim.

Obama's biggest weakness is the perception that he is ill-equipped to handle crises. And I'll be honest -- much as I'd hate a Hillary Clinton presidency, I'd be much more comfortable with her in the Big Chair than I would with Obama. I wonder how many Democrat-leaning voters are thinking along those lines?

300 posted on 08/11/2008 10:58:51 AM PDT by r9etb
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