Posted on 08/12/2008 2:10:58 AM PDT by Flashlight
There is a tiny amount of truth in your comments regarding US media and Russia. But its more a conceptual agreement (with elements of communism/socialism) than a love of Russia.
Russia does not support terrorists. They have an equal dislike for Muslem groups just like the US - only it began decades before 9-11. You, this website, Bush and Rice, jointly condemned Russia for attacking Chechnya in the years prior to 9-11. Then, an about-face came from the above groups. Muslem distrust, even hatred, began to permeate this website. Hoorah's and accolades were given to Russia. Then came Iraq and the Russian non-vote at the UN. Everything turned back again to the previous heckling of Russia. I've been here since 2001 and can remember it distinctly.
I will leave you with this. I'm a conservative and despise communism. I support the US and President Bush 100%, when a lot of people here had a change of heart. My views never changed on Bush. To this day I think he'll go down as a steadfast and vigilant president who protected his country in very perilous times.
I also tend to view Russia not as sinister and evil as many here. I enjoy the debates. But you folks should not thump Russians on the nose. They are more like you than just about anywhere short of Great Britain and Australia. Hate the government, not the people.
It is interesting that Russian apologists think they can lie with impunity and get away with it.
Russia does not support terrorists.
Liar. You're taking South Ossetians to camps in Russia and training them in terrorist tactics. The IEDs killing the Georgian police officers (the event that started this mess) was deployed by these same Russian terrorists. The fact that you would even suggest that Russians don't support terrorists is just plain silly; you've been doing it for most of the last century and just about all of this one. Some of those terrorists have been captured in the act and have confessed.
You, this website, Bush and Rice, jointly condemned Russia for attacking Chechnya in the years prior to 9-11.
Many of the people on this web site supported Russia against the Chechnya rebels, and most of them supported Serbia over Kosovo and thought the NATO actions there were wrong. Perhaps we were mistaken to do so. We assumed Chechnya was an example of Islamic extremists attacking your country just like they often do elsewhere. Instead, it was probably just another example of naked Russian aggression against a weaker victim.
I will leave you with this. I'm a conservative and despise communism.
Words don't mean anything when they come from a Russian. The past several days have pretty much proven that. The only thing we have to apologize for is the fact that we trusted you people. Congratulations; you had me fooled. But no more. This is the end of any friendship between the Russian and American people. This is the price you pay for your murderous aggression.
Hey man, not trying to make you feel worse but you can cite any military application you’d like to the picture.
The Russians ran through Gori and are still in operations THROUGHOUT Georgia.
That’s no ceasefire and that is no peacekeeping mission and that is NOT within any acceptable international standard.
Period.
And their peops are looting and burning homes and killing civilians as they go. Soon the world will know the full extent of it.
You can continue to make excuses for the Russians, but the rest of us will look upon them as the rest of the freedom loving world does: with scorn.
This isn’t and never was about any protection to a splinter group. They had no right to intervene end of story. It was planned pure and simple.
And plenty of military people express same. Ralph Peters has an article out laying it out in detail too. He was also in military intel.
So ease up and take a look at the big picture. It isn’t pretty.
“I also tend to view Russia not as sinister and evil as many here. I enjoy the debates. But you folks should not thump Russians on the nose. They are more like you than just about anywhere short of Great Britain and Australia. Hate the government, not the people.”
Actually I like what one Russian said, “Because we look like you, you think we are like you. We are not.”
This Russian I agree with and the history of Russian imperialism is the proof.
You can spin it all you like. The serving level-headed intel professionals called it 100%. I’ve spoken with serving analysts and Russia did not mobilise an invasion or occupying force. The Russian force was NOT any where near the size for a total occupation of Georgia.
People like yourself really didn’t take a step back and look at the bigger picture. You do realise how many Russian troops it would take to occupy and hold Georgia completely? The Russians would have to secure every border and fight and quell a Georgian uprising? All individuals like yourself could think of was that the Russian push into Georgia was the start of a complete and total Georgian invasion.
Both sides in this conflict are not squeaky clean. The irregular forces on both sides have civilian blood on their hands and lots of it. The conflict is not black and white.
Unfortunately, in reality, the picture that you saw was an incorrect one. The current serving intel analysts providing the info to the Pentagon called it 100%
Look you are COMPLETELY WRONG.
Sorry for the caps but really, you keep insisting that you were right. You were not. Russian troops are in Georgia and not leaving and they are certainly not adhering to any cease fire.
The are at best performing an operation designed to create a new Finalndization of a country. Charles Krauthammer might help you to join the rest of us in seeing this for what it is.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NmEyZThlMjUxY2JiMmM1ODZlYWU0ZWUxMDA1NzVhZTE=
This “operation” isn’t and never was about two separatist regions. It’s much much BIGGER than that.
And I don’t know or care what the Pentagon analyst say. If they saw this and did not prepare the Georgians, that’s even worse.
Your claims of spinning are ironic. You continue to insist this is some small scale operation of limited scope. And every single day reality on the ground says different.
In fact, the Russians are pushing to overthrow the democratic government of Georgia entirely as a condition for “peace” as their army is running around throughout the country.
Nuts!
Absolute non-sense. You clearly have no analysis capability of this conflict. Did you even see the footage shot yesterday of Russian troops and Georgian Police liaising in Gori? The implementation of the ceasefire is taking place. The Russians have stated that they want the Georgians to sign first and to agree before pulling back to the annexed territories. Russia calls the shots here. I can see that you are clearly frustrated. Not my fault that you can’t read a situation and clearly have blinkered analysis. Leave it to the professionals!
Explain to me how Russia was going to quell the entire population of Georgia? Georgia has a population of approx 4.4 million. It would require hundreds of thousands of Russian troops to hold, occupy and control Georgia. You fail to understand this. You talk of regime change. Where is the support for Russia in the Georgian populace? Hundreds of thousands of troops tied down for years trying to occupy and control Georgia is something that you obviously have not thought about.
How was Russia going to deal with all the civil unrest, not to mention the armed revolt, in a complete occupation of Georgia? Even if they has targeted or assassinated the Georgian President how was that going to stop Georgian unity and independance? Simply popping in a puppet Russian government in Tibilisi was not going to work. As stated before Russian troops and police would be tied down for years just trying to control civil unrest alone. Far too many people were simply thinking that the Evil Soviet Empire was back and that Russia was out to re-take every state that broke away after the break up of the Soviet Union.
Take a good look at the body language of Saakashvili during that ceasefire press conference. It was quite clear that he has lost completely South Ossetia. For Russia they might have not killed or assassinated Saakashvili, but in Russian eyes he has been humiliated and humbled.
Condoleezza Rice was there for a specific reason to get Saakashvili to come to his senses and sign that ceasefire. He had no option. The U.S. wasn’t going to continue support for Georgia if he didn’t sign. In Russian eyes the problem has gone in regards to South Ossetia. The U.S has reeled in Saakashvili over his plans and desires for the disputed territory. The U.S. has obviously made it very clear to Saakashvili that any meddling of irregular or paramilitary forces attempting to re-ignite or infiltrate South Ossettia is strictly off the cards. Saakashvili would be an utter fool if he didn’t.
Why are you trumpeting your analysis ability in the land of the imaginary as the realities on the ground daily prove otherwise.
I’m going to stick with Krauthammer over your analysis. His actually does make sense.
No, I’m not frustrated at all, but you do appear to be somewhat.
So how are they “quelling” the entire population then now? By force of arms obviously.
Regime change is a demand of the Russians. As far as I know they have not withdrawn that as a condition.
Russia has cut the country in two, invaded on two fronts not including action by sea and you think that your “analysis” makes more sense than Krauthammer and everyone in the free world that can see the boots on the ground and the writing on the wall?
Who said Russia needs a complete occupation of Georgia? They are doing pretty fine to this point.
Get your head of the fog man.
Get real. There is no demand that the current Georgian Government goes. You are simply inventing stuff here!
You have obviously failed to see and make a detailed analysis of the situation.
Get back to me when the Russians fail to withdraw their troops from Georgian territory. I’m not talking about the disputed territories here. Your analysis and belief in Krauthammer is flawed.
So, all the folks who've been spewing lies on here, suggesting South Ossetia is on Georgian soil and thus who's people have no right to align with Russia...
Guess you were all wrong, huh? Secretary Rice delivered the agreement to (moron) and he signed it. Once again, this allows Russia to maintain a military/security presence to protect South Ossetians from (moron's) tank invasions.
And all the criminal gangs and troublemakers and so-called peacekeeper jibberish is a pile of manure. You have no proof of that, other than what you hear from the media and (moron.)
Notice Bush nor Rice have made any such claims. The simple fact is, those people have been provoked and bullied by the moron for years. Its the exact reverse as you have it.
There is nothing newsworthy in current events so the media is sensationalizing this story in the U.S. and talk radio.
Very few people have a true sense of what is correct in these reports. However I listened to a CIA representative on John Gibson yesterday who nailed it down pat. His explanation mirrors mine.
The president of Georgia thumped the nest too many times and got his ears lowered.
The Russians are all over Georgia right now. And you have not explained why.
You’ll have to write to Krauthammer to explain to him your vague notion that he too is wrong.
I’m still with Krauthammer.
Your troops are far outside of South Ossetia. You are using your troops and armor to protect roaming bands of South Ossetian (russian citizen) raiders who are pillaging the Georgian countryside. Just because you happen to be very well-armed thieves doesn't legitimize your crimes.
So, all the folks who've been spewing lies on here,
That would be you. Your posts are nothing but Russian propaganda, and as we all know now, Russians are nothing but liars and thieves.
And all the criminal gangs and troublemakers and so-called peacekeeper jibberish is a pile of manure. You have no proof of that, other than what you hear from the media and (moron.)
Yeah, who are we going to believe, you or our lying eyes? We have video of the Russian bands of thieves stealing everything in sight. Russians robbing banks. There are even confirmed reports of you people stealing toilet seats. Even the lowest class of uneducated street thug shows more morality than you Russians.
Notice Bush nor Rice have made any such claims. The simple fact is, those people have been provoked and bullied by the moron for years. Its the exact reverse as you have it.
You don't seem to get it. There is too much information available through open news sources that disprove your lies. We know the Russians started this. We even know where some of your terrorist training camps were, and we have people who were trained there who were caught and confessed. Just because we've been trying to be nice over the years and haven't told the world about all your atrocities doesn't mean that we don't know about them.
There is nothing newsworthy in current events
Ha! Do you really think you can call an invasion of someone else's sovereign territory "nothing newsworthy"? It might not be for the state-controlled media in Fascist Russia, but we people in free countries beg to differ.
The president of Georgia thumped the nest too many times and got his ears lowered.
Oh, the audacity that someone your terrorists have been sabotaging and attacking for years finally stood up to you when you attacked them this last time. Just because you happened to be stronger and were willing and able to beat up a weaker opponent in no way legitimizes your Nazi tactics.
And Putin is going to get his ears boxed if he keeps up this trash.
Next you’ll be telling me that they are in Tiblisi and printing fake election papers for a puppet government!
What happens when the Russians do start pulling back? What story or newspaper hack will take your fancy then?
I’ll say again then what I’ve said for days, you were wrong.
So get over it.
Russia’s ambitions are not some obscure territories in Georgia.
But you keep telling everyone that despite the evidence.
The rest of us are duly impressed by that and the Russian concept of a ceasefire.
You can try to move the goalposts, but it’s too late for that.
Again, incorrect. Get back to me when the Russian forces don’t pull back out of Georgian territory? No doubt you’ll come up with some spin for that version of events!
“Get back to me when the Russian forces don’t pull back out of Georgian territory?”
Okay, I’m getting back to you. The Russians are still on Georgian soil.
You’ll have to wait if you want me to get back to you on their potential future withdrawal.
BECAUSE it hasn’t HAPPENED.
They are still destroying Georgia ALL OVER the country as you write about some speculative withdrawal.
You’d be funny if it wasn’t so serious.
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