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Children Stealing Gold in Beijing
Pajamas Media ^ | August 17, 2008 | Gordon Chang

Posted on 08/17/2008 10:11:47 AM PDT by AJKauf

Chinese coaches tried to hide the ages of the girls with “enough makeup to shame a drag queen,” but no amount of lipstick and eyeliner can hide the fact that the American gymnasts have curves and breasts and the Chinese ones don’t. On average, the girls on the Chinese team are 3.5 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter than their American counterparts....

(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 2008olympics; china; olympics
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To: Hildy

I thought it was T.O.


101 posted on 08/17/2008 12:28:24 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: autumnraine

I’m not sure how that condition affects muscle growth, so I don’t know if it would be beneficial or not.

Would it affect teeth? I don’t know.

But we also have the issue where the Chinese themselves have reported their ages in old articles as being younger than they reported for the olympics.

We also have the issue of the first chinese floor routine.
That was not the performance of a 16 yr. old who had years of dance training.


102 posted on 08/17/2008 12:30:48 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: HIDEK6

lol..


103 posted on 08/17/2008 12:31:50 PM PDT by Hildy ("We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.")
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To: buwaya

you are not talking to an idiot, I was a gymnastics judge.

It doesn’t matter what country you are talking about - that was a PITIFUL routine performed by a CHILD who had very little dance training.

Judges are supposed to deduct EVERY TIME a gymnast WALKS around the floor.
She did it repeatedly.

Gymnasts at the very beginning level of gymnastics do not make that mistake.

That this was supposed to be an olympic level performance is laughable.

“Our concepts of grace and dance just didn’t exist there.”

You are full of it.
I have seen many beautiful chinese floor routines.


104 posted on 08/17/2008 12:34:25 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: AJKauf

No point in blaming the babes, they have no choice.

China has long been guilty of stealing the innovations, the patents, the creations of others’.

No one should be surprised that they were incapable of hiding their low character.


105 posted on 08/17/2008 12:36:48 PM PDT by Carley
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To: Scotswife

I think we are actually agreeing on the subject. Our girls, even underdeveloped, look older than the Chinese girls. They might be, but I hesitate to say for sure the Chinese cheated because Asians tend to be smaller and most times look younger. I did notice that the Chinese girls looked more childish in their facial features than our girls did. The Chinese girls did not look like teenagers. The only sure way to know would be to test them and that’s not going to happen.


106 posted on 08/17/2008 12:53:25 PM PDT by Melinda in TN
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To: AJKauf

Are people still wasting time arguing about the age issue?
We already know the age cannot be verified by looks alone. Personally, pratically all the gymnasts look under-nurished and much younger than a typical 16-year-old or whatever their stated age.

What is needed is a system that can correctly verify the age of all the gymnasts or get rid of the age requirement.


107 posted on 08/17/2008 12:59:53 PM PDT by Fishing-guy
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To: Scotswife

“It doesn’t matter what country you are talking about - that was a PITIFUL routine performed by a CHILD who had very little dance training.”

That just shows that she had very little dance training.

“Gymnasts at the very beginning level of gymnastics do not make that mistake.”

Then this would not distinguish between a Chinese 13-year-old and a Chinese 16-year-old, as it is certain that neither would be a novice. Most likely she was not trained in this because this was not part of her training, which in some cases is probably skewed in ways that are not typical of American/European practice.

“You are full of it.
I have seen many beautiful chinese floor routines.”

And I am sure you have also seen many beautiful floor routines by girls who are underage for Olympic competition. Having a lousy routine doesn’t seem to imply age.

I have seen plenty of traditional Chinese dance, and it has little relation to the rather athletic and physical activity that we are used to, either as a social practice or a performing art.


108 posted on 08/17/2008 1:00:22 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: org.whodat

Understood. I was just hijacking your post since you mentioned the training undies.

But in response to what you meant, there’s not going to be any protest because three days after the closing ceremonies nobody will be able to *find* any of these girls unless the Chinese want to produce them. Unless they actually fingerprint and DNA test them during the competition nobody’s going to know who or what.


109 posted on 08/17/2008 1:00:57 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: Scotswife
One girl, during an interview said when she has downtime she still goes to the gym and “plays” with her friends.

do you know teenagers who describe how they “play”?

As I understand it (and, not being a Mandarin speaker, I probably have it wrong) that could be just a linguistic difference between Mandarin and English. Adult Chinese refer to hangin' out with their friends as "playing".

110 posted on 08/17/2008 1:06:30 PM PDT by Vroomfondel
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To: Melinda in TN

” but I hesitate to say for sure the Chinese cheated because Asians tend to be smaller and most times look younger.”

baby teeth.


111 posted on 08/17/2008 1:46:04 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Melinda in TN
American girls develop at an earlier age than most Asians. My granddaughter is 12 and looks 17. I’m not kidding. She’s already 5’7”, 120lbs and a 34B. :-) She is often mistaken for a high school senior. She thinks it’s cool when guys in their 20’s flirt with her because they think she’s closer to their age. Me, I don’t think it’s so funny and I tell her so. I empathize on that. My 10 year old is nearly 5'3, 34 B and looks like she's a teenager. She is sometimes mistaken for being my younger sister. It's frightening.
112 posted on 08/17/2008 1:52:54 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: buwaya

“Then this would not distinguish between a Chinese 13-year-old and a Chinese 16-year-old, as it is certain that neither would be a novice.”

Who said she was 13?
She didn’t even look 12.
She didn’t even look 11.

Oh - that’s right.
She must be a “freak of nature” who wasn’t properly trained in dance.

“That just shows that she had very little dance training.”

LOL!
The only way you are going to manage to make it to the olympics on floor with “very little dance training” in China would be due to your young age.

What are you saying?
That the chinese FAILED to properly train a 16 year old gymnast properly in dance even though they planned on sticking her out there on floor?

Defies logic.

“Most likely she was not trained in this because this was not part of her training, which in some cases is probably skewed in ways that are not typical of American/European practice.”

not part of her training?
Are you serious?

” Having a lousy routine doesn’t seem to imply age.”

When you are talking about the olympics from a dominating gymnastics program - yes that’s exactly what this implies.

I find it almost insulting to the chinese that you are suggesting they don’t know how to properly train a 16 yr. old floor competitor.
You are saying they don’t even know enough to say the alleged 16 yr. old “hey - quit taking those walking steps!”
that they surely would have read about in their rules manuals detailing execution deductions.

“And I am sure you have also seen many beautiful floor routines by girls who are underage for Olympic competition. Having a lousy routine doesn’t seem to imply age.”

Sure - but that isn’t the point I was addressing.
You are making the ridiculous claim that the chinese don’t have the concept of grace and beauty that westerners do.
This is an insult to the chinese.
They have managed perfectly well in the past to put up beautiful, artistic, and (dare-I-say?) MATURE floor routines in the past.
When exactly did they forget about this concept of grace I wonder?

“I have seen plenty of traditional Chinese dance, and it has little relation to the rather athletic and physical activity that we are used to, either as a social practice or a performing art.”

The last chinese floor routine contained dance based on chinese culture.
She did a very good job.
I am going to assume traditional chinese dance does not involve plodding around on flat feet, with the arms hanging while staring at the floor?


113 posted on 08/17/2008 1:57:07 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: HungarianGypsy
I don't normally do this but this is my granddaughter at 11. She had to have a poodle skirt for 50's day at school so I made one. She kept making funny faces so I told her to give me her "serious" look. She's really very funny and happy, not like she looks in this picture. She's a year older now but I don't have a good recent picture.
114 posted on 08/17/2008 2:07:04 PM PDT by Melinda in TN
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To: Melinda in TN

I don’t know how I messed the format up when I put that picture in. It didn’t look like that when I previewed it. Sorry


115 posted on 08/17/2008 2:08:35 PM PDT by Melinda in TN
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To: Scotswife

It doesn’t affect muscles or teeth as far as adversely. From what I have read and what the doctors have told me, there is nothing bad about it but short stature and probably delayed puberty and delayed adult teeth. And that is only from the body thinking it’s younger. But delayed puberty is a good thing because the longer she goes without puberty, the taller she will grow.

They did a bone age scan and her bones “think” she is right at 4 years old. It’s the same condition as Tom Thumb and he didn’t have any troubles except being obese for his height later in life. And that can happen no matter what your height.

They have offered her to have human growth hormone therapy, but her dad and I declined. There seems to be lots of risks involved with that and it’s also painful muscles injections daily.

We have just accepted her as a little person and love her as she is. It wasn’t until this year that we even thought of it benefiting her in anything, but we aren’t ready to push for Olympics, haha. She just takes gymnastics in a local class with girls her age. When reading about this, I wouldn’t put it past them to either cheat and claim a higher age for their gymnasts, or that they have chemically altered the pituatary gland to delay growth.


116 posted on 08/17/2008 3:03:48 PM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Scotswife

no one is responding to the tooth issue here. That would seem to be the most obvious no-brainer, and detractors of the under-age suspicion are ignoring it.


117 posted on 08/17/2008 3:13:49 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Posting a pic several years old is supposed to prove something? Did you watch Jonson in the games?

Troll.............

118 posted on 08/17/2008 3:16:31 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Scotswife
Was a gymnastics judge being the operative words.

Perhaps you are not away of the changes made to the code of points in the last few years.

Due to the structuring of scoring and the way technical difficulty points are awarded, gymnasts are packing in as many tumbling passes as possible into a routine to increase "A" scores, leaving very little time for non-technical artistic elements which do not contribute to the score. There is very little artistry in either Johnson's or Izbasa's floor routines. Complain about the lack of dance all you want, but everyone is guilty of it and it is because of the way the scoring no works.

Second, American judges routinely overscore everyone at U.S. nationals because quite frankly, they aren't very critical. They consistently overlook minor errors such as cowboyed legs or failure to make a complete turn in the popa 1/2 or switch 1/2 or the tour jette full that the international judges will deduct on.

119 posted on 08/17/2008 6:57:56 PM PDT by cmdjing
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To: AJKauf

China has disgraced itself. This and the cheating judges in the women’s gymnastics Sunday, denying Alicia Sacramone her bronze medal. The gentlest thing I can say about it is China makes me puke.


120 posted on 08/17/2008 7:28:58 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Liberalism is service to the self disguised as service to others.)
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To: cmdjing

“Perhaps you are not away of the changes made to the code of points in the last few years.”

I am more than aware of the changes.
A balance check is still a balance check.
A fall is still a fall.
A broken connection is still a broken connection.
And with the new code - the old deductions are greater than they were in the past.

I am not complaining about “lack of dance”
I am complaining about WALKING AROUND when every walking step is a deduction even at the beginner levels.

Drooping arms, sloppy jumps, head down, eyes on the floor.
IMMATURE.


121 posted on 08/17/2008 7:46:19 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: WoofDog123

“no one is responding to the tooth issue here.”

LOL!
So I’ve noticed.


122 posted on 08/17/2008 8:53:33 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: cmdjing

“Second, American judges routinely overscore everyone at U.S. nationals because quite frankly, they aren’t very critical. They consistently overlook minor errors such as cowboyed legs or failure to make a complete turn in the popa 1/2 or switch 1/2 or the tour jette full that the international judges will deduct on.”

It is not an issue of whether scores or too high or too low, it is an issue whether or not scores are consistent.

The execution deductions are not consistent.

And now tonight it happens again - the chinese vault was low, she piked it down into the ground and then landed on her hands and knees.
The execution deductions did not reflect those mistakes.

As I write - beam has not happened yet.

Let’s see if the judges remember from one routine to the next what a balance check is and what a broken connection is.


123 posted on 08/17/2008 8:56:57 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: doorgunner69
Posting a pic several years old is supposed to prove something? Did you watch Jonson in the games?

That photo is from the June 2008 Vogue Teen shoot, making it 3-4 months old...

Troll.............

I await your apology for your mistake and your accusation.

124 posted on 08/17/2008 9:44:23 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: AJKauf

They may be young but they have out preformed the US gymnastics team.


125 posted on 08/17/2008 10:14:57 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Mr. K
The USA should put our 8,9,10,11, 12, 13, year olds in next Olympics.

We could kick but with our tiny girls!

126 posted on 08/17/2008 10:22:02 PM PDT by roses of sharon (SAVE YOUR GAS RECIEPTS, SEND TO PELOSI!)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
There are quite a few of these threads about the age of the Chinese female gymnasts which have links to articles showing their ages to be arguably younger than the required 16 for the Olympics.
127 posted on 08/17/2008 10:27:16 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit ((Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team# 36120), KW:Folding))
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To: ican'tbelieveit

Yes, and as I’ve posted MANY TIMES in this thread, I do not dispute that. What I DO object to is how this thread started, that you can tell their age by their looks. Simply put, that’s flat out wrong.

Other information shows their ages to be too young; go after them for that. But to make comments about “well they look so young!” is bogus and ignoring reality, and very disappointing.

I thought conservatives would look at the facts and the content, not the shininess of the package. Apparently many FReepers will make a decision based strictly on looks and stick to it as long as possible...


128 posted on 08/17/2008 10:42:25 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

HA!!!!! FReepers making decisions based on looks alone... seen any guilty/not guilty threads. Drives me nuts, :-).

But, I do agree with some of the comments regarding the young ladies teeth. They do appear to still be “baby” teeth, much smaller than what a 16 yo should have.


129 posted on 08/17/2008 11:24:02 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit ((Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team# 36120), KW:Folding))
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Nice try troll, nowhere does it claim that photo was taken that date, or any date. Go find one of her in diapers, why don’t you? If it is in a recent article, you are all set!


130 posted on 08/18/2008 12:34:18 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
While you are thrashing around, grab a screenshot of her truly from a couple days ago and tell us the shots are just several months apart. The girl has been competing for years!
131 posted on 08/18/2008 12:38:03 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: AJKauf

I asked a couple local Chinese that saw the Olympics what they thought about the girls’ ages. None of them thought the girls were 16.


132 posted on 08/18/2008 1:52:51 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (When hopelessness replaces hope, it opens the door to evil.)
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To: TexasRepublic

This idea that Americans only think these girls are under 16 because they can’t judge the face of Asians is pure drivel, no Chinese honestly think they’re 16 either.


133 posted on 08/18/2008 1:55:35 PM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: Dr. Frank fan

China is hold to the premise of Most Gold medals means superpower status.


134 posted on 08/18/2008 2:06:01 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: DJ MacWoW

China PAID the IOC fair and square.

Just like japan bought nagano games.

Just like salt lake was rife with bribes.


135 posted on 08/18/2008 2:10:03 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: doorgunner69

Your ignorance has shown to be complete. Apparently you can’t click a link and look at the reference on the photo itself to confirm it was taken for that article (June 2008).

Speaks volumes of your intellectual and moral capacity...


136 posted on 08/18/2008 4:36:56 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Piss off twit, do what I said and go post a current shot side by side.............otherwise you are full of caca.

Others were right, you are just a troll for the chicoms..........


137 posted on 08/19/2008 6:30:06 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: doorgunner69
Piss off twit, do what I said and go post a current shot side by side.............otherwise you are full of caca.

Says the man who simply cannot accept the fact he has been proven wrong. I guess you do not understand how the Internet works, or how to follow links. So here are a few photos for your education:


Shawn Johnson at the JUNE 2008 Teen Vogue Photo Shoot


Shawn Johnson at the 2008 Nationals


Shawn Johnson at the 2008 Olympic Trials


Shawn Johnson - on the left end - with the US National Gymnastics team

All of these - and many more - can be found at Shawn Johnson's official website.

So you still going to claim I made the photo up? Are you that small and insecure of a person that you cannot admit a factual, well-proven error in judgment?

I thought FReepers were a higher class of people... Pride before the fall, I surmise!

138 posted on 08/19/2008 6:48:25 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: ridesthemiles

their center(s) of gravity change as they get into puberty, so it throws off all the routines .. there was a lot of discussion about that with Michelle Kwan/Tara Lipinski and its affect on figure skating, similar to gymnastics.


139 posted on 08/19/2008 7:03:35 PM PDT by EDINVA
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