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Russia's claim of Georgia genocide in South Ossetia hard to verify
The LA TImes ^ | August 18, 2008 | Megan K. Stack

Posted on 08/17/2008 6:03:48 PM PDT by justa-hairyape

South Ossetian city Tskhinvali slowly emerges from shellshock, but the damage doesn't appear to be on the scale Russia claimed. Residents blame the bloodshed on Georgia and regard Russia as saviour.

TSKHINVALI, GEORGIA -- A visit to this war-strafed city Sunday turned up no proof of Russian claims that more than 2,000 people died here. Nor were there any ready sign of what Prime Minister Vladimir Putin referred to as "genocide."

Tskhinvali Regional Hospital had confirmed the deaths of 40 people as of Sunday, though the number was expected to grow, said Tina Zakharova, an Ossetian doctor who showed The Times a log of deaths. That figure included both civilians and combatants: people who died at the hospital, whose bodies were brought to the hospital or whose families reported burying their dead in villages.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: caucasus; genocide; georgia; russia; southossetia; war; warcrimes
So the total deaths verified by the Hospital in Tskhinvali is now 40.
1 posted on 08/17/2008 6:03:49 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: justa-hairyape
Hard to verify because it is not true.

No doubt there were civilians killed in this...but my bet is that Russia has killed as many or more in its abject agression.


GEORGIA CONFLICT 2008


2 posted on 08/17/2008 6:07:31 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: justa-hairyape
...claim of Georgia genocide in South Ossetia hard to verify

Outrageous lies usually are.

If the Russians think they are experiencing a diplomatic freeze now wait until this story firms up.

3 posted on 08/17/2008 6:09:01 PM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: Jeff Head
That figure also includes combatants. Apparently what the Russians meant to state was that the Georgians Wanted to Commit Genocide or that they were Attempting to Commit genocide. Must have been a translation problem.
4 posted on 08/17/2008 6:10:29 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: justa-hairyape
Russians are going to stay in and control that province untilthe propoer "evidence" is found (read manufactured) to support their outragous claims.

But it will be very transparent as to what the truth is.

5 posted on 08/17/2008 6:18:23 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: justa-hairyape

How could it be hard to verify? I read it on all the comment threads on all the blogs last week. It was right there in black and white, straight from the fingertips of Russian blog commenters. What more verification does one need?


6 posted on 08/17/2008 6:18:51 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Jeff Head
Russians are going to stay in and control that province untilthe propoer "evidence" is found (read manufactured) to support their outragous claims.

Chicago has offered to send a supply of Democratic voters as evidence, just as long as they are back to their Illinois cemeteries by election day.

7 posted on 08/17/2008 6:23:07 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: KarlInOhio

LOL! ROTFL!


8 posted on 08/17/2008 6:24:51 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: justa-hairyape
The more things change...


9 posted on 08/17/2008 6:34:42 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: KarlInOhio; Chieftain

ROFLMAO!!!


10 posted on 08/17/2008 6:35:20 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: Dr. Frank fan

I’ve been dating a girl who is from Russia (no, I did NOT order her through the mail - she’s a 10 year resident of the US and a citizen). Anyway, she talks sometimes about how things in Russia were never as bad as what we thought they were during the Cold War and how Putin is so loved by the people there. She’s never been a Communist and she votes Republican, so it’s never been a big deal until this week, but now her attitudes are really bothering me. When she heard about this conflict with Georgia, she immediately wanted to know what Georgia had done to cause it, and today she got a call from her mom, who still lives in Russia, and the word from her mom is that thousands of South Ossetians have been taken to hospitals in Moscow and other places in Russia as a result of the attempted genocide that the Georgians committed. She, of course, claims that Russia has no imperialist ambitions in that region (please try not to laugh). I suggested to her that if there is any truth to her claims that we Americans are sometimes fed propaganda by our government, there is much more of that fed to the Russian people by Mr. Putin.

I’m not sure this is going to work out. To her credit, she is beautiful and smart (about most everything other than Russian politics).


11 posted on 08/17/2008 6:35:41 PM PDT by RightFighter
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To: RightFighter

There were probably a lot of injuries, but why would you fly them all the way up to Moscow ?


12 posted on 08/17/2008 6:47:03 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: justa-hairyape

Because it makes it more believable?


13 posted on 08/17/2008 6:59:59 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: justa-hairyape

That was my first thought - why would these people be taken 1000 miles or more away?


14 posted on 08/17/2008 7:01:22 PM PDT by RightFighter
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To: Jeff Head

So this is the evidence that proves Putin is lying, and in fact the S. Ossetian Georgians are the ones being ethnically cleansed.

And of course the media is eating the Russian lies up.


15 posted on 08/17/2008 7:08:16 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2)
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To: RightFighter

Some things are so engrained, they are tough to get away from. Communism is one of them. Especially the brainwashing the Russians are famous for.

And we are also guilty of knee jerk patriotism, all people are of their home. Not to mention, nostalgia makes things seem much better than they actually were.

Be aware of her, but also understanding. You know?


16 posted on 08/17/2008 7:10:06 PM PDT by autumnraine
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To: RightFighter

For example, I had a really (financially) poor childhood. Realistically, it sucked. Biscuits and grits weeks on end is not nice, but my mother would not accept food stamps and we survived. But the times my mom could afford a nice meal, things shine in that memory and I feel that overall I had a nice childhood.

Does that make sense?


17 posted on 08/17/2008 7:11:34 PM PDT by autumnraine
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To: justa-hairyape
Will the so-called conservatives or isolationists carrying Soviet-flavored water for Moscow re-assess their positions?
18 posted on 08/17/2008 11:38:09 PM PDT by rmlew (I stand with Georgia against the Kremlin's Russian irredentism and Soviet revanchism.)
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To: RightFighter

Its kind of funny because my parents said it wasn’t so bad in Romania under communism. Then they tell stories about surviving on one egg a day and sending children out at night to buy milk on the black market. There were food riots and religious persecution. My dads cousin helped smuggle some bibles and they would rip out the pages and hand them out to Christians because there wasn’t even close to enough to go around. They would secretly swap pages with each other because it was illegal and considered pornography. One wrong word or even mentioning that you were hungry would get you thrown in prison. Two of my uncles tried to escape but were caught and spent a year in prison where thy had to live on rats because there wasn’t enough food. Many people were imprisoned, tortured and killed. It wasn’t illegal to have churches but they would often inject the pastors with a drug that made them go insane. But they still love Romania and have fond memories also.


19 posted on 08/18/2008 12:50:51 AM PDT by Tramonto (Regime change in Russia)
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To: RightFighter
My advice* is to stay away from politics. There's no up-side. It's likely she gets her news from Pravda, Izvestiya, even Komsomolskaya Pravda, or similar Russia sources - or Russian blogs etc that are derivative of these - and this influences how her opinion is shaped. At the end of the day, such things are remote from one person and relationship. (Even if you changed her mind about the Russia-Georgia conflict, it wouldn't matter, right?)

She is right about how things were never "as bad" - at least, that is probably the case if she grew up in Moscow. People know what their life experience has been.

Also, if the comparison is to the late 90s when the ruble was devalued, it's very understandable to think things were never as bad as that.

Finally, she is right that Putin is well liked. Things are stable and prosperous - what's not to like? The fact that it's basically all due to the world market for energy that Russia sits on, those aren't dots that the average person is likely to connect. Same basic reason why so many people were willing to give Clinton credit for the internet boom which he had nothing to do with.

*I'm married to a Russian.

20 posted on 08/18/2008 4:40:12 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Dr. Frank fan

We also got into it this weekend about stem cells. She is very adamant that there should be massive federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. No amount of discussion could even begin to sway her that the science in this field has actually moved beyond embryonic stem cells since they can now reproduce pluripotent cells from skin cells without having to destroy embryos. She thinks (as many Americans do, I’m sure) that since all these babies are being aborted anyway, they ought to be able to harvest their stem cells for research.

On nearly every other issue, she’s a true-blue conservative, but on this one, she’s thrown me for a loop.


21 posted on 08/18/2008 10:18:08 AM PDT by RightFighter
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To: RightFighter

My mother in law lives about an hour and a half from Moscow. We set her up a satellite tv system last year. Two dishes. The installation was about $300. And the service is basically free for about 400-600 channels. There are a lot of Russian channels, about 20 stations from the U.S. as well as as the channels from the satellites in that hemisphere. From England, Netherlands, France, Germany, Italy Spain, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, all the way to Hong Kong. They are uncensored.

Here in the US, I have Cox Cable and two dishes from Direct TV. I get a few hundred channels. Other than 3 Russian channels I pay extra to Direct TV, I can tell you 99% of my feeds here originate in North America.

It’s simply a geographic thing. That side of the world sees different satellites than we do, and the feeds are not linked.

When is the last time you watched Russian or even German or Italian TV? I’m willing to bet that it is extremely rare for most Americans to see anything other than feeds originated here in the U.S.

I don’t have to spell it out for you if you can read between the lines which group is easier to feed censored stories with lots of bias. The group getting feeds from the rest of the world? Or the group who sees American satellites? Which group are you in?

I do not mean to be in the least antagonist, but I spend several months a year travelling in different countries, so I see firsthand the information presented to people in various places. Good day.


22 posted on 08/18/2008 8:58:00 PM PDT by Izord
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