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To: allmendream

==How about their opinion on the 1st Amendment, which is BASED upon the Virginia law?

See previous reply.

==How is discounting their voluminous writings on the principle of Church and State respecting their original intent?

See previous reply. Etc, etc, etc.

==And you still have not answered my questions about God and dice, after claiming I never asked it in the first place. I have now asked it of you twice. Why no answer?

Dice can be both God’s will and random to our frame of reference in the same way God can know the beginning from the end and yet at the same time grant us free will.

==You also cannot tell me how you propose that epigenetic mechanisms can derive genetic variation rather than phenotypic variation. It seems your source confirmed that genetic variation is due to mutation and that epigenetics changes phenotype. Can you address this discrepancy between what you claim and what your source said?

==It seems your source confirmed that genetic variation is due to mutation and that epigenetics changes phenotype.

Do you concede that the Darwinists are now admitting that they were wrong about random mutation producing phenotype changes?

==You also cannot tell me how you propose that epigenetic mechanisms can derive genetic variation rather than phenotypic variation...Can you address this discrepancy between what you claim and what your source said?

How about the following:

“It is hypothesized that the generation of mutations in the error-prone replications of the epigenetically reprogrammed cells is not random. The mutations match epigenetic alterations in the cellular genome, namely gain of function mutations in the case of hypomethylation and loss of functions in the case of hypermethylation. In addition, continuing proliferation of the cells imposed by signaling in SSE speeds up the natural selection of the mutant cells favoring the survival of the cells with mutations that are beneficial in the environment. In this way, a stress-induced replication of the cells epigenetically reprograms their genome for quick adaptation to stressful environments providing an increased rate of mutations, epigenetic tags to beneficial mutations and quick selection process. In combination, these processes drive the origin of the transformed mammalian cells, cancer development and progression. Support from genomic, biochemical and medical studies for the proposed hypothesis, and its implementations are discussed.”

http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/8/1323


564 posted on 08/20/2008 5:00:44 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Your source once again doesn't say what you claim.

One of the epigenetic responses to stress is to turn on genes that will increase mutations and turn off genes that repair mutations. It itself is not changing the genetics, only the way in which the genetic program is being expressed. In this case the epigenetic program is maximizing the chance of error prone replication to come across a solution to the stress, much the way error prone PCR is used in directed evolution to derive novel proteins with beneficial properties.

Once again Epigenetics can control phenotype (it is most certainly not the only determinant of phenotype)but it does not change the actual gene being expressed; that is accomplished by an increased mutation rate.

“a stress-induced replication of the cells epigenetically reprograms their genome for quick adaptation to stressful environments providing an increased rate of mutations, epigenetic tags to beneficial mutations and quick selection process.

Now if mutations were not essential to the ability of living systems to adapt to stress, why would the epigenetic program increase mutation rates and downregulate repair when the cell was under stress?

569 posted on 08/20/2008 5:41:36 PM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“Dice can be both God’s will and random to our frame of reference in the same way God can know the beginning from the end and yet at the same time grant us free will.”GGG

So why do you seem to assume that “random” is synonymous with “God has no control over the process”?

Many things that affect our lives and our salvation may seem indistinguishable from randomness but I don’t for a second assume that means they are out of God’s power to control or predict.

Why should evolution be any different from the thousands of other factors that have a random component that affect our lives from the very moment of our creation as a random shuffle of our grandparents DNA to the effect of a random mutation to a gene in a brain cell that gives someone brain cancer and kills them? God is still in control, even if the process is demonstrably random.


572 posted on 08/20/2008 5:51:03 PM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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