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Dinosaurs helped build the pyramids, school director says
Malta Today ^ | today | Raphael Vassallo

Posted on 08/22/2008 6:29:13 PM PDT by Ron Jeremy

Dinosaurs helped build the pyramids, school director says

Raphael Vassallo

Far from becoming extinct 65 million years ago, the dinosaurs actually co-existed with early humans, and even helped in the construction of the pyramids. This is the word of Vince Fenech, Evangelist pastor and director of a fully licensed, State-approved Creationist institution which admits children aged between four and 18. “Of course the ‘dinoceros’ existed (as Fenech pronounces the word). It is mentioned in the Book of Job. They were used to help build the pyramids,” he says, adding that this latter observation is only “his personal belief”, and that it does not form part of the school’s curriculum.

But the curriculum of the Accelerated Christian Academy in Mosta is not exactly free of such fanciful reinventions of history. Fenech reiterates the basic Evangelist tenet that the entire universe was created in 4004 BC… and this time, he also supplies “proof”. “When man landed on the moon (in 1969), they expected the landing module to sink in a deep layer of dust. But the layer was only a few inches deep. This proves that the universe is still young!”

Does it? I would have thought it merely illustrates that unlike the Earth, the moon has little or nothing in the way of atmosphere… and dust is usually generated as a result of particles which combine as they are buffeted around by the movement of atmospheric molecules. Also, the moon’s gravity is two thirds less than it is on Earth… which in turn means that dust is practically weightless, and therefore doesn’t settle. But of course there is little point in saying so, because as far as Fenech in concerned, it is the word of God alone that counts. Fenech confirmed this during an impromptu interview at the MaltaToday office in San Gwann, where he irrupted last Thursday on a Divine Mission to correct my misconceptions about his Mosta academy.

“Your write-up last Sunday was full of mistakes,” he pointed out. Foremost among the mistakes is the incorrect identification of Fenech as “headmaster” instead of director… an error which I acknowledge, and for which I apologise.

“You also wrote last Sunday that God created Adam and Eve,” Fenech continues. “This is not true. The first woman did not have a name; she was made from Adam’s rib and was known only as ‘woman’. She got the name ‘Eve’ only after the expulsion from the Garden of Eden. You can quote me on that…”

Fenech suddenly seems very keen on being quoted. “We don’t just teach our students about evolution,” he continues enthusiastically. “We also teach them, for example, that abortion is murder… and you can quote me on that, too!”

This was evidently intended as an automatic trump card, in a country where any public assertion of pro-life values automatically entitles one to instant respectability. Intrigued, I ask Fenech for more details about the school’s approach to controversial social issues. To teach that “abortion is murder” – regardless of one’s opinion in the matter – presupposes at least a basic knowledge of the human reproductive system. In other words, sex. Considering that the ACA accepts students as young as four: how old are students when they are taught about sex, abortion and murder?

Strangely, however, Vincent Fenech appears incapable of giving a straight answer. Instead, after humming and hawing and generally avoiding the issue, he suddenly denies having made the claim in the first place. “We do not teach that abortion is murder,” he insists, contradicting himself totally in less than five minutes. “What we teach is ‘Thou shalt not kill’.”

Pressed further, Fenech eventually admits that the classes at the ACA at not composed according to the traditional model. Instead, it seems that children of varying ages are mixed together in one class… although the school’s director will not be drawn into explaining precisely how.

“But you, what do you believe in?” he suddenly asks. “What do you think will happen to you after you die?” I don’t know, I answer. I imagine my body will decompose, rot and eventually disappear… Assuming an air of lofty superiority, Fenech places his hand on heart as he simpers: “I, on the other hand, know exactly what will happen to me. I will go to Heaven. It is written in the Scriptures: only those who are reborn in Christ will see the Kingdom of God…”

That may well be the case, but it is not written in the National Curriculum. So for the second time in two weeks, I sent questions to Education Director Cecilia M. Borg on the subject of the Accelerated Christian Academy in Mosta, and all the unscientific nonsense evidently taught therein.

I asked Dr Borg, whether the education division was aware of resolution no. 1580, passed by the Council of Europe’s parliamentary assembly on 4 October 2007, entitled “The dangers of creationism in education”. The resolution observes that “the war on the theory of evolution and on its proponents most often originates in forms of religious extremism which are closely allied to extreme right-wing political movements”, and urges EU member states to “to firmly oppose the teaching of creationism as a scientific discipline on an equal footing with the theory of evolution and in general resist presentation of creationist ideas in any discipline other than religion?”

Dr Borg promptly sent the following reply: “From previous correspondence I am sure you could clearly deduce that the position of the Education Division is perfectly aligned to the Council of Europe Resolution 1580 since it was made amply clear that while every school is obliged by law to follow the National Minimum Curriculum in all curricular matters, religious, moral and ethical instruction is imparted in respect to the freedom of belief as guaranteed by the Constitution and in the light of ‘the right of every parent of a minor to give his decision with regard to any matter concerning the education which the minor is to receive,’ as entrenched in article 6. of the Education Act.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: creationism; crevo; dinosaurs; history
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FYI
1 posted on 08/22/2008 6:29:13 PM PDT by Ron Jeremy
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To: Ron Jeremy

To be technical, they really only had to dig up those big stone blocks.

2 posted on 08/22/2008 6:32:07 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Thank God for every morning.)
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To: Ron Jeremy

Socialist idiots.


3 posted on 08/22/2008 6:32:37 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Ron Jeremy

4 posted on 08/22/2008 6:33:56 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Obama: The presumptuous democratic nominee)
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To: Ron Jeremy

The pyramid blocks were almost certainly poured; you’d waste 80% of the material trying to carve them, even if you had the infinite time and manpower to do it. Wagons full of stone from quarries were hauled to the site and emptied into frames, and then some sort of liquid bonding agent was poured into the frame and topped off. The close fits of the blocks are from the use of the frames and not from carving with infinite resources.


5 posted on 08/22/2008 6:35:14 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Ron Jeremy
Maybe in Cambodia. Sorry about the picture size.
6 posted on 08/22/2008 6:35:17 PM PDT by BGHater (Democracy is the road to socialism.)
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To: Ron Jeremy

7 posted on 08/22/2008 6:35:57 PM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Ron Jeremy

Oh, yeah, the two things you have in Africa which would be useful for hauling wagons like that are elephants and buffalo. I doubt they’d have used dinosaurs even if they’d had them.


8 posted on 08/22/2008 6:36:46 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Ron Jeremy

Vince Fenech is a nut. He teaches his students that Malta’s joining the European Union in 2003 was predicted in Holy Scripture. He’s also a rabid anti-Catholic - and in a Catholic country that can make you nuts I suppose.


9 posted on 08/22/2008 6:36:46 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Ron Jeremy

stupid.


10 posted on 08/22/2008 6:45:46 PM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: wendy1946

Anytime you pour slurry to make something there will be spillover. Is there evidence of this anywhere?

Considering that the building stone geology (under a microscope) in the pyramids is strongly in tune with the makeup (particle alignment, etc.) of the surrounding virgin stone from the queries, I doubt “pouring” was the method used. Just MHO.


11 posted on 08/22/2008 6:47:07 PM PDT by doc1019 (I was taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder to find one.)
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To: Ron Jeremy
When man landed on the moon (in 1969), they expected the landing module to sink in a deep layer of dust. But the layer was only a few inches deep. This proves that the universe is still young!”

That one is so silly that even Answers in Genesis advises against using it. Source

And dinosaurs cavorting about with humans is even sillier.

12 posted on 08/22/2008 6:53:32 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Ron Jeremy
Dinotopia by Dinorider d'Andoandor.

Like this????

13 posted on 08/22/2008 6:55:19 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Ron Jeremy
Dinosaurs helped build the pyramids, school director says

The proof could easily be found in the writings of the times, or in the hieroglyphics. But mostly, the proof would be more apparent in the art of the times.

Is there any such proof?
14 posted on 08/22/2008 6:55:37 PM PDT by adorno
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To: doc1019

They’ve found human hair, pieces of rope etc. inside the blocks.


15 posted on 08/22/2008 6:59:01 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946
“I doubt they’d have used dinosaurs even if they’d had them.”

Sure they could have. There was a documentary on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW1nlJUxa9I

16 posted on 08/22/2008 7:01:09 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland ("We have to drain the swamp" George Bush, September 2001)
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To: adorno

There is no shortage of artwork from prehistoric times showing clearly recognizable dinosaur types and that includes Ica stones, Amerind petroglyphs and other categories of things, and there might have been a handfull of dinosaur holdouts after the flood... But the basic reality is that dinosaurs lived before the flood and the pyramids were built after it.


17 posted on 08/22/2008 7:01:09 PM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Ron Jeremy
Job refers to Leviathon and Behemoth. A reading of Behemoth's description compels one to mentally picture a Brachiosaur.

The word "dinosaur" was coined in 1842, and before that the animals described were called... Regardless of your belief system, one still has to explain the myriad of ancient references to "dragons". One's view of origins greatly influences how they interpret any evidence of man's coexisting with dinosaurs, such as ancient reliefs, the Ica stones, all of the "mythology" concerning dragons, etc.

18 posted on 08/22/2008 7:03:16 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: wendy1946

Any references? Not doubting your word, but Internet, book or other references for me to investigate would be great. ;-)


19 posted on 08/22/2008 7:03:59 PM PDT by doc1019 (I was taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder to find one.)
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To: jimmyray
The word "dinosaur" was coined in 1842, and before that the animals described were called... Regardless of your belief system, one still has to explain the myriad of ancient references to "dragons". One's view of origins greatly influences how they interpret any evidence of man's coexisting with dinosaurs, such as ancient reliefs, the Ica stones, all of the "mythology" concerning dragons, etc.

And we draw pictures of them now, despite the fact that we don't live with them. Why then would the fact that people 3,000 years ago drew dinosaurs mean that they lived with them?

20 posted on 08/22/2008 7:07:59 PM PDT by Ron Jeremy (sonic)
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To: wendy1946
There is no shortage of artwork from prehistoric times showing clearly recognizable dinosaur types and that includes Ica stones, Amerind petroglyphs and other categories of things, and there might have been a handfull of dinosaur holdouts after the flood... But the basic reality is that dinosaurs lived before the flood and the pyramids were built after it.

We draw dinosaurs now, yet we don't live with them. If 5,000 years from now people see our movies with dinosaurs, should they use that at proof that we lived with them?

21 posted on 08/22/2008 7:09:31 PM PDT by Ron Jeremy (sonic)
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To: adorno
"The proof could easily be found in the writings of the times, or in the hieroglyphics. But mostly, the proof would be more apparent in the art of the times."

I dunno. Dinosaurs had flat feet so their writings are rather primitive.

22 posted on 08/22/2008 7:09:55 PM PDT by boop (Democracy is the theory that the people get the government they deserve, good and hard.)
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To: doc1019
Peeking in occasionally placemarker
23 posted on 08/22/2008 7:13:24 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Ron Jeremy
And we draw pictures of them now, despite the fact that we don't live with them. Why then would the fact that people 3,000 years ago drew dinosaurs mean that they lived with them?

One possible explanation is that they frew pictures of what they actually observed. We draw pictures of mental recreations based on complete skeletons we have dug out of solid rock. There is no evidence that they had such advanced Paleontological skillst, much less the necessary interest, tools and time.

24 posted on 08/22/2008 7:16:23 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: jimmyray

or drew, for that matter...


25 posted on 08/22/2008 7:17:05 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: wendy1946

I don’t suppose finding the quarries from whence came those blocks means anything. or the tool marks of the workings on those stones?
“liquid bonding agent”? Maybe epoxy? Redi-mix from Home Depot? Alien technology? Dino dung?


26 posted on 08/22/2008 7:28:09 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: MHGinTN

?


27 posted on 08/22/2008 7:29:23 PM PDT by doc1019 (I was taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder to find one.)
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To: Ron Jeremy

Everyone knows that the pyramids were landing pads for alien spaceships!


28 posted on 08/22/2008 7:47:52 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Teachers open the door. It's up to you to enter.)
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To: count-your-change
Carving out rock, turning it into powder and transporting it to the construction site, then reconstituting it ... gee, we do that even today! The Romans has concrete technology, why not the Egyptians a form of similar methodology?

I'm checking in occasionally to see how this discussion goes. Have a nice evening.

29 posted on 08/22/2008 8:05:36 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: boop
Dinosaurs had flat feet so their writings are rather primitive.

Primitive may be right. But that still didn't stop them from leaving plenty of "feet" tracks in many parts of the world, enough to let the world know "Dino was here". But the question is, have there been any "feet" tracks from about the same time as the ancient civilizations?
30 posted on 08/22/2008 8:14:35 PM PDT by adorno
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To: wendy1946
...,Amerind petroglyphs and other categories of things,...

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

31 posted on 08/22/2008 8:23:26 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (If you don't want people to get your goat, don't tell them where it's tied.)
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To: Ron Jeremy; jimmyray
And we draw pictures of them now, despite the fact that we don't live with them. Why then would the fact that people 3,000 years ago drew dinosaurs mean that they lived with them?

We draw pictures of them because of our history and legends, not because we lived with them. Where did THEY get the ideas for them? It had to start somewhere.

Why do the old accounts of dragons seem to fit with what we know of them from fossil remains? There isn't any indication that people would have know about fossil remains and their implications 3,000 or so years ago.

Why do so many cultures that were so isolated from each other have the same accounts of dragons?

Just curious....

32 posted on 08/22/2008 8:35:10 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MHGinTN
The Romans used a kind of volcanic dust to make their mortar but none such is known for the Egyptians.
If the Egyptians could carve out blocks why and how would they crush them to dust only to reform them later?
There is plenty of evidence of ancient stone cutting technology but where is there any evidence of large scale stone crushing, form building, and concrete mixing and pouring equipment in ancient Egypt?
To anyone who has worked with concrete the notion of Egyptians forming up and pouring concrete for their structures is absurd. But totally so.
33 posted on 08/22/2008 8:46:52 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Ron Jeremy
Does it? I would have thought it merely illustrates that unlike the Earth, the moon has little or nothing in the way of atmosphere… and dust is usually generated as a result of particles which combine as they are buffeted around by the movement of atmospheric molecules. Also, the moon’s gravity is two thirds less than it is on Earth… which in turn means that dust is practically weightless, and therefore doesn’t settle. But of course there is little point in saying so, because as far as Fenech in concerned, it is the word of God alone that counts.

No. Dust on the moon is caused by radiation breakdown. Before Apollo 11, claims of 5-10 billion year old solar system implied a prediction of several hundred feet of dust based upon the known rate of this breakdown. Hence the trashcan lid - sized pads on that lunar module. Surprise was that fractions of an inch was found. Back to the drawing board.
34 posted on 08/22/2008 8:50:02 PM PDT by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: Ron Jeremy
If 5,000 years from now people see our movies with dinosaurs, should they use that at proof that we lived with them?

In the persona of Eric Van Danigan's umpteenth great grandson...

Never heard of "documentaries"?

Next you'll deny that Godzilla didn't destroy Tokyo!

And that Gamera retracted his head & legs into his shell, spouted flames, and flew to Mars.

You think Mothman or Spider Man or Tommyknockers aren't real, either?

I've seen the ruins of the cities of the ancients, and nothing else can explain...

35 posted on 08/22/2008 8:56:48 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The Great Obamanation of Desolation, attempting to sit in the Oval Office, where he ought not..)
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To: tang-soo

Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan?


36 posted on 08/22/2008 9:19:18 PM PDT by csense
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To: Ron Jeremy

read later


37 posted on 08/22/2008 9:52:13 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: csense
Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan?

International Tang Soo Do Federation - Monroeville, Pa. Master C.S. Kim.

My son is a 2nd degree black belt and I took lessons for a couple of years and was doing well until I fell on my shoulder. 8 years later and it still bothers me - so that was the end of my martial arts career.

When i signed up with FR (started as a lurker in 97 or 98), I adopted the method of greeting (Tang-Soo!) as my FR handle. I'd change it but don't want to loose my standing with FR by starting a new account.
38 posted on 08/22/2008 10:06:41 PM PDT by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: Inyo-Mono
That one's questionable; some of the others aren't. Some of the stegosaur glyphs like the one at Agawa Rock close to Lake Superior are unmistakable, as are also some of the sauropod glyphs in Utah.

No modern animal has dorsal spikes.

39 posted on 08/23/2008 4:52:10 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: count-your-change
You only have to think about this one a tiny bit to comprehend it. IF you were to try to carve those kinds of stones, your rock quarry would very quickly turn into a pile of rubble from the 80% of the stone which you would waste.

That is, even if you had the infinite manpower and time to do it.

40 posted on 08/23/2008 5:11:01 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: doc1019
>references?

Try this for starters.

41 posted on 08/23/2008 5:14:28 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946

Looks like a great starting place … thanks.


42 posted on 08/23/2008 7:26:09 AM PDT by doc1019 (I was taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder to find one.)
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To: doc1019

There’s more to this sort of story, and in fact reasons to think that the Egyptians had technologies beyond ours for dealing with stone. They had vases made of diurite, which is terribly hard, which nobody could produce with bronze tools. Some people, particularly a French scholar named Davidovitz, believe they had the technology to liquify and pour hard stone and that, if this technology could be rediscovered, we’d be looking at highways which never needed to be repaired.


43 posted on 08/23/2008 7:35:26 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: wendy1946

80% wastage? You’ve obviously never seen rock being quarried. The tools and methods are much the same today as they’ve always been, saws, wedges, drills. Today the tools are powered but function as they have for thousands of years.

I live near active atone quarries, They cut huge blocks and do not waste 80% of the stone. Find a stone quarry, talk to the people doing the work as I have, take time to understand what they’re doing, maybe even watch the History channel and when you’ve learned something about the subject of stone quarrying, come back.

Further if you have ANY EVIDENCE of formed concrete-like material for the ancient Egyptians bring it forward instead of, well how does one describe your assertions?


44 posted on 08/23/2008 8:03:47 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: wendy1946; medved

45 posted on 08/23/2008 8:26:15 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: count-your-change

Post 41


46 posted on 08/23/2008 8:41:48 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: Coyoteman
That picture only proves that cavemen had microscopes and couldn't draw very well.


47 posted on 08/23/2008 9:04:25 AM PDT by stormer
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To: stormer
Right.

I've been looking at rock art for nearly forty years and my main conclusion is:

Rorschach did not live in vain.

48 posted on 08/23/2008 9:07:15 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Seriously though, do you have any idea what that image is supposed to represent? A fish perhaps?


49 posted on 08/23/2008 9:07:22 AM PDT by stormer
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To: stormer
Seriously though, do you have any idea what that image is supposed to represent? A fish perhaps?

I have long since given up trying to decipher these paintings. I have been out with groups to some of these sites and had everyone come up with a different interpretation (and frequently half of the group is local Indians).

Here is the text associated with the one I posted:

Plateau Pictograph.

Aboriginal rock paintings, or pictographs, are common through the southern interior of British Columbia. With few exceptions they were painted with red-ochre pigment, probably originally mixed with animal oil or fish eggs as binding agents. They depict a tremendous variety of subjects, ranging from simple maps, through hunting scenes, to mythological and spiritual figures. This rock painting, in the Okanagan area of the southern Plateau, seems to represent a supernatural creature. Such designs may have been created by adolescents on ritual solo quests for a personal guardian spirit. Most surviving pictographs are believed to be no more than 200-300 years old, although none have been positively dated. Source


50 posted on 08/23/2008 9:12:47 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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