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Tbilisi admits misjudging Russia
FT ^ | 21 Aug 2008 | Jan Cienski

Posted on 08/23/2008 8:44:45 AM PDT by BGHater

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1 posted on 08/23/2008 8:44:45 AM PDT by BGHater
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To: BGHater

Sorry, just... LOL.

Never AssUMe anything.


2 posted on 08/23/2008 8:46:27 AM PDT by TheZMan (Bitter backwoods east Texan Christian gun clinger with the AC at 72 degrees.)
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To: BGHater

These folks seem as dumb as an empty vodka bottle. Too bad people had to die because of it.


3 posted on 08/23/2008 8:53:48 AM PDT by webrover
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To: webrover

Not really so dumb. They sucked us into a new Sarajevo waiting to happen.


4 posted on 08/23/2008 8:56:17 AM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: BGHater
Georgia did not believe Russia would respond to its offensive in South Ossetia

According to all the computer-chair warriors here at FR, it was the evil Russians who started the war.

How can we provoke the commies into a war with us with idiots like this spouting off with the truth?

5 posted on 08/23/2008 8:57:25 AM PDT by LIBERTARIAN JOE (Don't blame me - I voted for Ron Paul!)
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To: Captain Kirk

So how smart are we for being sucked in?


6 posted on 08/23/2008 9:02:24 AM PDT by webrover
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE

The Russians goaded Georgia into attacking. Their ‘peacekeepers’ in South Ossetia were anything but. How would you react if the Mexican Army aided and abetted attacks by separatists in Texas?


7 posted on 08/23/2008 9:03:19 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: webrover

Not smart at all. We should have cut the Russians into that pipeline years ago and expanding Nato into the former Warsaw pact countries was a bone-headed move.


8 posted on 08/23/2008 9:04:24 AM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
According to all the computer-chair warriors here at FR, it was the evil Russians who started the war.How can we provoke the commies into a war with us with idiots like this spouting off with the truth?

The Georgian deputy defense minister DIDN'T say that Georgia started the war.

Read much?

9 posted on 08/23/2008 9:05:38 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign
Georgia did not believe Russia would respond to its offensive...

Yea, and I comprehend the meaning of "its (georgia's) offensive" too.

10 posted on 08/23/2008 9:09:26 AM PDT by LIBERTARIAN JOE (Don't blame me - I voted for Ron Paul!)
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To: dirtboy; LIBERTARIAN JOE

Better analogy:

Mexican separatists in Coahuila along the Texas border are being issued US passports.

Mexico, with military equipment provided by Iran and Russia, starts shelling the separatists inside the Coahuila border.

US Army rolls from Ft Hood into Mexico to push the Mexican Army back out of shelling range, destroys the Russian equipment, and rolls far enough into Mexico to force retreat into Mexico City.

Kinda sounds like what’s actually happened before, except that it was a naval landing at Veracruz.


11 posted on 08/23/2008 9:09:32 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
According to all the computer-chair warriors here at FR, it was the evil Russians who started the war.

The Russians can be evil without having 'started' this particular incident. The two are not mutually exclusive. Besides, 'who started it' is a children's game; in the reality of geopolitics you can trace these things back forever and get nowhere (see also: Israelis/Arabs). Russia had troops in these regions, weaponry and tanks and invasion plans at the ready, but the Georgians 'started it'. Ok.

Who 'started it' is less important than what the respective sides are actually doing and what ends they seek. What ends does Russia seek here, by your estimation?

12 posted on 08/23/2008 9:11:34 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: sam_paine
In your scenario, the US is not defending its own territory. It is intervening in another country's internal affairs.

I find it absurd that posters think Georgia should have just ignored separatist attacks. Russia was working to provoke Georgia into attacking.

13 posted on 08/23/2008 9:13:12 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: sam_paine
That is a good analogy. In your analogy, the US would be doing these things (issuing US passports to Mexican separatists (!), having a 'peacekeeper' troop presence there (which you neglected to add), etc) because they wished to eventually take over and assimilate that part of Mexico for some strategic reason. At the very least, others could be forgiven for interpreting the hypothetical US motives as such.

Which is no different than how I and others interpret Russian motives here.

14 posted on 08/23/2008 9:16:35 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: dirtboy
Their ‘peacekeepers’ in South Ossetia were anything but

Since it's South Ossetia in question, how about we ask the South Ossetians if the Russians were protecting their peace?

How would you react if the Mexican Army aided and abetted attacks by separatists in Texas?

As long as they were aiding Confederate seperatists, it wouldn't bother me.

15 posted on 08/23/2008 9:17:29 AM PDT by LIBERTARIAN JOE (Don't blame me - I voted for Ron Paul!)
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
Georgia did not believe Russia would respond to its offensive... Yea, and I comprehend the meaning of "its (georgia's) offensive" too.

The Georgian defense minister didn't say that. That was the stupid writer of this report who said that.

As I said, The Georgian deputy defense minister DIDN'T say that Georgia started the war. Read much?

16 posted on 08/23/2008 9:17:42 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
Since it's South Ossetia in question, how about we ask the South Ossetians if the Russians were protecting their peace?

South Ossetia is not and has never been a recognized country. This is still a diplomatically-recognized part of Georgia we are talking about.

So let's imagine that the Mexican Army sent 'peacekeepers' into Southern California. Would you ask the 'Southern Californians' whether they approved of this, or would you ask the Americans?

As long as they were aiding Confederate seperatists, it wouldn't bother me.

Which part of that would require or entail giving them U.S. passports and stationing U.S. soldiers there?

17 posted on 08/23/2008 9:23:25 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
Since it's South Ossetia in question, how about we ask the South Ossetians if the Russians were protecting their peace?

South Ossetia is only slightly less wary Russian intentions than they are of Georgia trying to reclaim the sessionists. And Russian 'peacekeepers' were allowing South Ossetian thugs to attack Georgians outside of South Ossetia.

As long as they were aiding Confederate seperatists, it wouldn't bother me.

Posting guidelines prohibit me from saying what I think of you after that comment.

18 posted on 08/23/2008 9:24:28 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: LIBERTARIAN JOE
Since it's South Ossetia in question, how about we ask the South Ossetians if the Russians were protecting their peace?

30% of South Ossetia is ethnic Georgians. So why don't we start by asking them if the Russians were protecting their peace.

Oh wait we can't. Ethnic Georgians have been ethnically cleansed from their villages in South Ossetia.

In an AP Interview with, South Ossetian leader Eduard Kokoity spoke of the ethnic Georgian villages in South Ossetia. He said, "There is nothing left anymore".

19 posted on 08/23/2008 9:27:44 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Dr. Frank fan
What ends does Russia seek here, by your estimation?

I think the answer to your question is very simple... the Russians have had enough of US/NATO encroachment into their neighborhood. Additionally, I think that the Russians have a legitimate concern that this encroachment poses a direct military threat to their nation.

For the same reason that I would oppose a hostile military power putting forces on the mexican or Canadian borders, I agree and support the Russian efforts, up to and including military response, to keep both the Russian border and the "near abroad" free of foreign military forces.

20 posted on 08/23/2008 9:29:01 AM PDT by LIBERTARIAN JOE (Don't blame me - I voted for Ron Paul!)
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