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Towton, the bloodbath that changed the course of English history. (Well worth reading)
The Sunday Times (UK) ^ | August 24, 2008 | AA Gill

Posted on 08/23/2008 7:45:39 PM PDT by PotatoHeadMick

Get onto the B1217 – the Ferrybridge-to-Tadcaster road – just after the M1 joins the A1M, and you’ve crossed that unmapped line where the north stops being grim and begins to be bracing. Go through Saxton, past the Crooked Billet pub, and on your left you’ll see rising farmland, green corn and copses – an old landscape, untroubled by poets or painters or the hyperbole of tourist boards, but handsome, still and hushed. The road is straight; it knows where it’s going, hurrying along, averting its gaze. Through the tonsured hedge you might just notice a big old holly tree on the side of the road. It seems out of place.

Get out of the car, adjust to the hissing silence and step behind the tree. Hidden from the road you’ll find a gothic stone cross of some age. Nobody knows who put it here or where it’s from. For centuries it lay in the ditch. A date recently inscribed on its base, March 28, 1461, is wrong. It should be the next day: the 29th, Sunday. The movable feast – Palm Sunday.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Unclassified; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: battleoftowton; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; march291461; palmsunday; towton
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This is a fascinating article if you're into historical battles, AA Gill normally does restaurant and TV reviews but he's a good writer.
1 posted on 08/23/2008 7:45:40 PM PDT by PotatoHeadMick
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To: PotatoHeadMick
rising farmland, green corn and copses

Whew, I couldn't believe it at first...I thought it read "corpses".

2 posted on 08/23/2008 7:50:15 PM PDT by rfp1234 (Phodopus campbelli: household ruler since July 2007.)
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To: PotatoHeadMick
By all contemporary accounts, allowing for medieval exaggeration, on this one Sunday between 20,000 and 30,000 men died. Just so that you grasp the magnitude, that’s a more grievous massacre of British men than on the first day of the Somme. Without machineguns or shells, young blokes hacked, bludgeoned and trampled, suffocated and drowned. An astonishing 1% of the English population died in this field. The equivalent today would be 600,000.

FYI!

3 posted on 08/23/2008 7:57:05 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: PotatoHeadMick
Thanks for this fascinating post.

L

4 posted on 08/23/2008 7:57:52 PM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

WOW!!!!
GREAT article.

I’m a supporter of Richard III and would have been a Yorkist. Damn Lancstrians!!! Damn Tudors!!!!!


5 posted on 08/23/2008 7:58:52 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

“Now is the winter of our discontent...”


6 posted on 08/23/2008 8:07:43 PM PDT by Publius (Another Republican for Obama -- NOT!!)
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To: PotatoHeadMick
After a bit of argy-bargy, happy slapping, black dungeon-work and a couple of on-your-toes to the Continent, we get Henry V – cocky sod and, more important, lucky sod – who wins Agincourt but unluckily is then killed by the shits while his son is still a nipper.

Sometimes I admire British writing; sometimes it cracks me up, and sometimes it just leaves me scratching my 'ead.

7 posted on 08/23/2008 8:11:13 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (when you're bot, you're pwn3d)
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To: the invisib1e hand

Right! What’s all this then!


8 posted on 08/23/2008 8:12:24 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (This election is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if McCain wins, we're still retarded.)
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To: ovrtaxt

I say! What’d you say he was killed by?


9 posted on 08/23/2008 8:14:50 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (when you're bot, you're pwn3d)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

awesome


10 posted on 08/23/2008 8:15:26 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (No prisoners. No mercy. Fight back or STFU!!!)
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To: ZULU
I’m a supporter of Richard III and would have been a Yorkist. Damn Lancstrians!!! Damn Tudors!!!!!

Thanks to Shakespeare's hatchet job of 1593, Richard's reputation as "Dick the Bad" has endured to this day--and has been reinforced in films such as Tower of London (1962).

11 posted on 08/23/2008 8:17:37 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Fiji Hill

Shakespear was a great artist - but a Tudor lacky - and very BAD historian.


12 posted on 08/23/2008 8:20:04 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Excellent article—about a piece of history I knew nothing about.

The slaughter that men have visited upon other men throughout the last 5,000 years makes one paue at the sheer magnitude of it, and its effects on society, on bloodlines, and on history.


13 posted on 08/23/2008 8:25:11 PM PDT by exit82 (People get the government they deserve--and they are about to get it --in spades.)
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To: 2banana
By all contemporary accounts, allowing for medieval exaggeration, on this one Sunday between 20,000 and 30,000 men died.

In comparison, the Battle of Iwo Jima cost the lives of about 7,000 Americans and 21,000 Japanese.

14 posted on 08/23/2008 8:28:07 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Ping for a fresh start tomorrow... Looks like a fantastic read. Thanks for posting.


15 posted on 08/23/2008 8:32:12 PM PDT by DariusBane (Obamessiah the Assholian do not deny Him. (K-oneTexas creates assholian))
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Thomas Costain wrote a series of books about the Plantagenets that were very popular in the ‘50s and early ‘60s.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/c/thomas-b-costain/


16 posted on 08/23/2008 8:39:57 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie
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To: rfp1234
rising farmland, green corn and copses

Whew, I couldn't believe it at first...I thought it read "corpses".

And when the author writes corn, he probably means wheat or perhaps oats. It's a British meaning that always trips me up when I read it.

17 posted on 08/23/2008 8:43:41 PM PDT by stripes1776 ("That if gold rust, what shall iron do?" --Chaucer)
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To: the invisib1e hand

I’m with you on that—have never heard the expression “argy-bargy” and am not sure what the writer means when he says Henry V was “killed by the shits”—unless he means dysentery or some such unfortunate disease. But I AM pretty sure what he means when he talks about Henry VI “hiding the pink sceptre”—and that line is hilarious!


18 posted on 08/23/2008 9:03:51 PM PDT by milagro
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Ping for later


19 posted on 08/23/2008 9:04:33 PM PDT by Big Giant Head (I should change my tagline to "Big Giant penguin on my Head")
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To: milagro

LOL! I missed that one.


20 posted on 08/23/2008 9:05:33 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (when you're bot, you're pwn3d)
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To: milagro
I’m with you on that—have never heard the expression “argy-bargy” and am not sure what the writer means when he says Henry V was “killed by the shits”—unless he means dysentery or some such unfortunate disease. But I AM pretty sure what he means when he talks about Henry VI “hiding the pink sceptre”—and that line is hilarious!


From the Urban Dictionary

argy bargy = a heated discussion, perhaps one that has become bad-tempered enough to amount to a spat or minor quarrel

...a common English expression for a nasty argument - perhaps moving into a shoving match...

21 posted on 08/23/2008 9:31:14 PM PDT by az_gila (AZ - need less democrats)
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To: milagro

Indeed, he means dysentery.


22 posted on 08/23/2008 9:37:46 PM PDT by hc87
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To: 2banana

The Romans killed more Brits [Celts] in one day when they settled Bouddica’s hash.


23 posted on 08/23/2008 9:41:27 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

mark for later


24 posted on 08/23/2008 9:51:06 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
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To: PotatoHeadMick
AA Gill normally does restaurant and TV reviews but he's a good writer.

Wow, I'll say!
Thanks for posting this.

25 posted on 08/23/2008 9:53:23 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: SunkenCiv

A good one.


26 posted on 08/23/2008 9:57:38 PM PDT by BBell
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To: RedRover; jazusamo; Girlene; 4woodenboats; Grimmy; xzins; smoothsailing; lilycicero; bigheadfred; ..

(( ping ))

When you have fifteen minutes to kill, this story is fantastic.


27 posted on 08/23/2008 10:20:01 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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more:

Skeletons Of Bloodiest Day (Towton - 1461AD)
The Press | 9-12-2006 | Nadia Jefferson-Brown
Posted on 09/12/2006 2:45:57 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1700270/posts


28 posted on 08/23/2008 10:42:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1700270/posts?page=65#65


29 posted on 08/23/2008 10:44:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: BBell; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks BBell.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


30 posted on 08/23/2008 10:55:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: PzLdr

Good catch / Well put.

http://www.athenapub.com/britsite/tacitus1.htm

According to some writers, not less than eighty thousand Britons were put to the sword. The Romans lost about four hundred men, and the wounded did not exceed that number.


31 posted on 08/23/2008 11:00:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: ZULU; Fiji Hill
Ya know -- relying on Shakespeare to provide history is like relying on Michael Moore to screen a valid documentary.
32 posted on 08/23/2008 11:39:01 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: Lancey Howard; PotatoHeadMick

Many, many thanks to you both; a truly interesting trip back in time.

Unfortunately, it took me a lot longer than fifteen minutes; I had to copy off the pages and format them, plus went to the link at the end and snatched a couple of their pictures.


33 posted on 08/23/2008 11:43:53 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: Fiji Hill

“In comparison, the Battle of Iwo Jima cost the lives of about 7,000 Americans...”

And the battle of Okinawa cost 12,000 American lives over 82 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

And by this time, evaluating the fact Japan would go on sacrificing everybodies’ lives (their own soldiers, America’s soldiers and any civilians) Truman wisely dropped two nuclear bombs.

A similar decision could be faced by an American President. Obama obviously lacks the judgement or character to make a good decision, either way.

The Presidency is not only the officeholder; it is also the people he selects for advice.

Any confidence in people Obama would select? Rev. Wright, Michelle, Bill Ayers, Rezco?


34 posted on 08/24/2008 12:06:14 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: ZULU

I’m sure that if he’d written his “histories” any differently, we wouldn’t have ANY of his subsequent plays.


35 posted on 08/24/2008 3:00:26 AM PDT by bannie
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Outstanding story. However, there is writing, and there is overwriting.


36 posted on 08/24/2008 5:58:46 AM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you FReep.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

Loved that part. As if the writer knew that a recounting of history is often tedious and bland.


37 posted on 08/24/2008 6:09:40 AM PDT by GoforBroke
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She Crucified Her Enemies And Burnt London To The Ground.
Meet Britain’s First Feminist, Boadicea
Daily Mail | 2-6-2008 | Paul Johnson
Posted on 02/07/2008 3:19:53 PM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1966717/posts


38 posted on 08/24/2008 9:00:10 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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To: LibFreeOrDie
I loved Costain as a kid. Now that I'm old, maybe I should go through his work again. Although I think I'll do Rafael Sabatini again, first. I'll start with Fortune's Fool, a copy of which I just happen to own, then go to the Captain Blood tales.
39 posted on 08/24/2008 9:18:28 AM PDT by chesley (I'm still alive, still employed, & still married. Life is GOOD)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

For perspective, Gettysburg over three days is said to have had 10,000 dead.


40 posted on 08/24/2008 9:23:58 AM PDT by marsh2
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To: PotatoHeadMick

An excellent read! Thanks for posting!


41 posted on 08/24/2008 11:12:24 AM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

bump


42 posted on 08/24/2008 11:16:39 AM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: LibFreeOrDie
Thomas Costain wrote a series of books about the Plantagenets that were very popular in the ‘50s and early ‘60s.

Thanks for the info! I have a copy of Below The Salt I sure enjoyed reading.

43 posted on 08/24/2008 11:37:48 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (www.pinupsforvets.com)
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To: the invisib1e hand

After a bit of argy-bargy, happy slapping, black dungeon-work and a couple of on-your-toes to the Continent, we get Henry V – cocky sod and, more important, lucky sod – who wins Agincourt but unluckily is then killed by the shits while his son is still a nipper.

Sometimes I admire British writing; sometimes it cracks me up, and sometimes it just leaves me scratching my ‘ead.
/////////////
I’ll second that.

I get that “Killed by the shits while his son is still a nipper” likely means he died of dysentery while his son was still a small boy. But can anyone translate “ After a bit of argy-bargy, happy slapping, black dungeon-work and a couple of on-your-toes to the Continent, we get Henry V”


44 posted on 08/24/2008 1:19:04 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: PotatoHeadMick; SunkenCiv; indcons; Clemenza
PHM, thanks for the great post. SunkenCiv, thanks for the ping. Indcons, I don't know if you're on the GGG list of SC, so here's a ping for you. And clemenza, I thought you might appreciate this.

This guy can write...

45 posted on 08/24/2008 2:00:05 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

i always thought the English battle with the most dead was the one where the Romans defeated Boudicca.


46 posted on 08/24/2008 4:06:57 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: Pharmboy
Thanks. Its a damn shame that many Brits that I know (and these are fairly well educated people) are clueless about the War of the Roses and the (English) Civil War. I do know that Towton continues to be taught at Sandhurst.

If any Freepers out there wonder while the English (and the Scottish and Welsh to a lesser extent) are so aggressively secular, all you have to do is read said nations' histories on how each family (or branches of the same family) used the various confessions to wage war. There is a good reason why the English are both negatively disposed to the RCC, and have no desire to have either the Anglicans or low churches to have a significant voice in government.

47 posted on 08/24/2008 5:48:07 PM PDT by Clemenza (Happiness is a Union Thug Getting Clubbed on the Head)
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Thanks so much for posting this very interesting British history article.

I’ve been catching up on many FR posts from this summer, and you also posted this very good article on the Romanovs. I’m fascinated by this period in history, so thanks again.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2047823/posts


48 posted on 08/24/2008 5:51:31 PM PDT by baseballmom
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To: LibFreeOrDie
Thomas Costain wrote a series of books about the Plantagenets that were very popular in the ‘50s and early ‘60s.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/c/thomas-b-costain/

I've got the black rose and the Plantagenets series (still in original case!). Love the way the guy writes. (But the series isn't really straight history, he kind of flowers it up a bit I think)

49 posted on 08/25/2008 5:43:56 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: PotatoHeadMick

Absolutely fascinating read.


50 posted on 08/25/2008 8:46:32 AM PDT by BJClinton
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