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1 posted on 08/25/2008 2:30:46 PM PDT by doug from upland
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To: doug from upland

Oh, for the love of God. If St. Augustine had had an ultrasound device back in 300 A.D., he’d have been able to nail it down then. Fact is, he didn’t. Fact is, we do. Give me a break!


2 posted on 08/25/2008 2:44:27 PM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: doug from upland

“Abortion and Catholic Thought: The Little-Told History

This is a summary of Catholics for a Free Choice publication The History of Abortion in the Catholic Church.
Reprinted in the Autumn 1996 issue of Conscience “

http://faculty.cua.edu/Pennington/Law111/CatholicHistory.htm


3 posted on 08/25/2008 2:45:42 PM PDT by tflabo (:)
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To: doug from upland

WELL SAID!!!

It boils down to Non Christian Catholics and Christian Catholics.

The Dems can have all the Non Christian Catholics!

A Christian Catholic or not could have nothing to do with the democrat party.

for full disclosure I am not a Catholic but just a Christian :)


4 posted on 08/25/2008 2:46:20 PM PDT by Friendofgeorge (Obama on the other hand does not know the Lord Jesus, and is only the Lords enemy)
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To: doug from upland
This just goes to show that the Culture of Death is alive and well in the dimocrat party.


5 posted on 08/25/2008 2:48:41 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: doug from upland

Pelosi’s one of those people to whom the phrase “just who died and made YOU the Pope?” wouldn’t be a sarcastic phrase but a completely legitimate question.


7 posted on 08/25/2008 2:48:59 PM PDT by Right Cal Gal (Abraham Lincoln would have let Berkeley leave the Union without a fight)
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To: doug from upland
Pelosi goes back to the middle ages to find a scientific appraisal that she can twist to something that she likes and is comfortable with, and ignores every current teaching of the Catholic church.

She is far outside of Roman Catholicism.

8 posted on 08/25/2008 2:49:04 PM PDT by SampleMan (We are a free and industrious people, socialist nannies do not become us.)
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To: doug from upland

Not just the Speaker of the House but now she has taken over as San Fran Nan the first female Pope! What a donkey!!!


12 posted on 08/25/2008 3:05:04 PM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: doug from upland

I heard this whole thing on the radio Sunday and I wanted to scream!!! With all due respect madam speaker, the Roman Catholic Church is very clear and very sure where life begins. It’s conception! And she said, quite clearly, that she considers herself “an ardent Catholic”....Lest I be the first to cast a stone, but I think she might be a little blind on this one issue...


13 posted on 08/25/2008 3:07:06 PM PDT by Krista33
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To: doug from upland

17 posted on 08/25/2008 3:27:40 PM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

Life begins at conception Ms Pelosi. Whether it continues to live or not depends on the woman. And don’t blame her doctor or anyone else.


18 posted on 08/25/2008 3:36:13 PM PDT by Hattie
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To: doug from upland

LIST OF THOSE EXCOMMUNICATED: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excommunicated_by_the_Roman_Catholic_Church


19 posted on 08/25/2008 4:01:53 PM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland
Most Rev. Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver

ON THE SEPARATION OF SENSE AND STATE:

A CLARIFICATION FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH IN NORTHERN COLORADO

Denver, CO - Monday, August 25, 2008

To Catholics of the Archdiocese of Denver:

Catholic public leaders inconvenienced by the abortion debate tend to take a hard line in talking about the "separation of Church and state." But their idea of separation often seems to work one way. In fact, some officials also seem comfortable in the role of theologian. And that warrants some interest, not as a "political" issue, but as a matter of accuracy and justice.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is a gifted public servant of strong convictions and many professional skills. Regrettably, knowledge of Catholic history and teaching does not seem to be one of them.

Interviewed on Meet the Press August 24, Speaker Pelosi was asked when human life begins. She said the following:

"I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition . . . St. Augustine said at three months. We don't know. The point is, is that it shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose."

Since Speaker Pelosi has, in her words, studied the issue "for a long time," she must know very well one of the premier works on the subject, Jesuit John Connery's Abortion: The Development of the Roman Catholic Perspective (Loyola, 1977). Here's how Connery concludes his study:

"The Christian tradition from the earliest days reveals a firm antiabortion attitude . . . The condemnation of abortion did not depend on and was not limited in any way by theories regarding the time of fetal animation. Even during the many centuries when Church penal and penitential practice was based on the theory of delayed animation, the condemnation of abortion was never affected by it. Whatever one would want to hold about the time of animation, or when the fetus became a human being in the strict sense of the term, abortion from the time of conception was considered wrong, and the time of animation was never looked on as a moral dividing line between permissible and impermissible abortion."

Or to put it in the blunter words of the great Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer:

"Destruction of the embryo in the mother's womb is a violation of the right to live which God has bestowed on this nascent life. To raise the question whether we are here concerned already with a human being or not is merely to confuse the issue. The simple fact is that God certainly intended to create a human being and that this nascent human being has been deliberately deprived of his life. And that is nothing but murder."

Ardent, practicing Catholics will quickly learn from the historical record that from apostolic times, the Christian tradition overwhelmingly held that abortion was grievously evil. In the absence of modern medical knowledge, some of the Early Fathers held that abortion was homicide; others that it was tantamount to homicide; and various scholars theorized about when and how the unborn child might be animated or "ensouled." But none diminished the unique evil of abortion as an attack on life itself, and the early Church closely associated abortion with infanticide. In short, from the beginning, the believing Christian community held that abortion was always, gravely wrong.

Of course, we now know with biological certainty exactly when human life begins. Thus, today's religious alibis for abortion and a so-called "right to choose" are nothing more than that - alibis that break radically with historic Christian and Catholic belief.

Abortion kills an unborn, developing human life. It is always gravely evil, and so are the evasions employed to justify it. Catholics who make excuses for it - whether they're famous or not - fool only themselves and abuse the fidelity of those Catholics who do sincerely seek to follow the Gospel and live their Catholic faith.

The duty of the Church and other religious communities is moral witness. The duty of the state and its officials is to serve the common good, which is always rooted in moral truth. A proper understanding of the "separation of Church and state" does not imply a separation of faith from political life. But of course, it's always important to know what our faith actually teaches.

+Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver

+James D. Conley
Auxiliary Bishop of Denver

###

20 posted on 08/25/2008 4:07:47 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: doug from upland

HEARTBEAT DETECTED AT 18 DAYS, BRAINWAVES AT 40 DAYS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogZ5V3O5A8o


22 posted on 08/25/2008 4:35:48 PM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

Larry Elder is on the issue - http://www.kabc.com


24 posted on 08/25/2008 4:57:31 PM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: doug from upland

What a damned liar pelosi is!


25 posted on 08/25/2008 5:03:43 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: All

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=4F507ECA-3048-5C12-009A112D84695055

Pope’s visit renews abortion debate
By: Josephine Hearn and Ryan Grim
April 15, 2008 06:48 AM EST

In June 2004, as prominent Catholics in the United States debated whether Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry should be allowed to receive Communion, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger weighed in with what appeared to be an unequivocal opinion: No.

If a politician who supports abortion rights attempts to receive Communion, Ratzinger wrote, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it.”

Ratzinger is to arrive in Washington on Tuesday as Pope Benedict XVI, and his visit to the nation’s capital is already pitting anti-abortion-rights activists against Roman Catholic lawmakers who support abortion rights, reviving an issue that has received scant attention in Congress or on the campaign trail in recent months.

The conflict could come to a head Thursday, when the pope is scheduled to celebrate a Mass at the Washington Nationals’ new ballpark. The Vatican has invited all Catholic lawmakers, and many abortion-rights-supporting Catholics — including Kerry and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) — are expected to attend.

In ads placed in The Washington Times and Politico this week, the anti-abortion-rights American Life League is urging the pontiff to “protect the body of Christ from the bloodstained hands of pro-abortion ‘Catholics’” by denying Communion to politicians who support abortion rights.

Michael Hichborn, ALL’s media director, said his group is the largest anti-abortion advocacy organization in the U.S. “What we expect is that there will be pro-abortion Catholics who are going to try to receive Communion when the pope holds Mass,” he said. “We’re also hoping that his advisers have fully briefed him on those politicians who may attempt to receive Communion. I don’t know how well-prepared he’ll be.”

“You presume that everyone there knows the rules of the church and follows them,” she said. “No one is policing that. People go to church and people go to Communion if they feel in their heart they are prepared to receive Communion.”

Abortion-rights-supporting Catholic lawmakers on the Hill seemed reluctant Monday to discuss the issues raised by the pope’s visit. Representatives for several members said their bosses were traveling and couldn’t be reached or were otherwise unavailable for comment.

Drew Hammill, a spokesman for Pelosi, offered a one-line statement: “The speaker receives Communion regularly and expects to receive it on Thursday.”

Kerry spokesman David Wade said his boss also intends to take Communion on Thursday.

A spokesman for Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), one of the lawmakers singled out for attention in ALL’s ads, said that Durbin won’t be attending Mass because of floor and committee schedules but that he will go to a papal reception at the Italian Embassy on Wednesday.

“Sen. Durbin’s religion is a private matter, and we’re not going to comment beyond giving scheduling information,” said spokesman Joe Shoemaker.

Ratzinger’s 2004 opinion appeared in a memo that was sent to then-Washington Cardinal Theodore McCarrick and first reported in the Italian magazine L’Espresso. In the memo, which did not mention Kerry by name, Ratzinger said: “The church teaches that abortion or euthanasia is a grave sin. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion, even among Catholics, about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not, however, with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”

McCarrick later told Catholic News Service that the memo didn’t reflect “the full message I received,” but he refused to release what more there might have been.

Benedict has not softened the position expressed in the memo. Aboard the papal plane in 2007, he discussed a threat by Mexican Catholic leaders to excommunicate politicians who supported abortion.

According to a Reuters report, the pope supported the proposed excommunication.

“Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon law, which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving Communion, which is receiving the body of Christ,” he said.

The Mexican church leaders “did nothing new, surprising or arbitrary. They simply announced publicly what is contained in the law of the church,” he went on.

Walsh said that while the pope supported the Mexican church leaders’ right to excommunicate lawmakers who support abortion rights, they eventually chose not to do so.

Catholic lawmakers in the United States have periodically come under attack for failing to follow all of the Vatican’s teachings in their politics, particularly on abortion rights.

When the pontiff made his comments about Communion and abortion in the context of the Mexican political debate last year, some Catholic House Democrats, led by Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), responded by issuing a statement in which they stressed their efforts to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

“Advancing respect for life and for the dignity of every human being is, as our church has taught us, our own life’s mission,” the lawmakers said in a May 2007 statement. “Each of us is committed to reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and creating an environment with policies that encourage pregnancies to be carried to term.”


26 posted on 08/25/2008 5:21:22 PM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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