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Vanity: McCain "Broke" When a POW
Me | 9/17/08

Posted on 09/18/2008 12:35:02 PM PDT by llevrok

Please help me track something down I find despicable.

Today I heard Rush say that an Obama supporter is calling John McCain "unfit" to lead because he "broke" when a POW. By "broke", that is - he gave confidential information to his captors or admitted his "guilt" as a war terrorist.

I've read many books on the POW's in captivity both during Vietnam, Korea and WW2. Most - if not all - "break" under torture at some point usually later than sooner. And all who come home carry this huge feeling of guilt for letting their fellow POW's, service, country and family down.

I would defy any liberal who is spreading this as a cause of McCain being too weak to lead spend 1 month - or 1 day - under such conditions and not concede to what their captors want them to say or do.

THis is an attrocious charge and needs to be nipped in the bud. Now.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: mccain; mccainpalin; pow
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1 posted on 09/18/2008 12:35:02 PM PDT by llevrok
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To: llevrok
Today I heard Rush say that an Obama supporter is calling John McCain "unfit" to lead because he "broke" when a POW. By "broke", that is - he gave confidential information to his captors or admitted his "guilt" as a war terrorist.

I caught part of Limbaugh mentioning this but didn't hear the name of the Obama supporter. Who was he talking about?

2 posted on 09/18/2008 12:38:40 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: llevrok

0bama won’t have to be tortured and have his arms broken and pulled out of their shoulder sockets. He’ll just give it all away without being asked.


3 posted on 09/18/2008 12:39:11 PM PDT by henkster (Sarah Palin; the 2nd coming of Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: llevrok
Seems to be an endless and counterproductive task.
People can, and do, make up anything they want.
It's not up to you or anyone else to disprove something made up. It can't be done.
John McCain secretly traveled to Mars when he was in captivity. Prove me wrong...
4 posted on 09/18/2008 12:39:13 PM PDT by frankenMonkey (101st Airborne Army Dad)
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To: llevrok

>> he gave confidential information to his captors or admitted his “guilt” as a war terrorist

It’s well known that, under torture, he “admitted guilt” in some fashion (signed a statement or something?)

But I have never heard that he gave confidential information to his captors.

Sign of weakness? I don’t see it as such. I doubt I would have had the guts to last one tenth as long as John McCain. This angle of attack on him is doomed to fail, IMO.


5 posted on 09/18/2008 12:39:13 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (I've left Cynical City... bound for Jaded.)
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To: llevrok




Obama broke down when someone pointed out he had big ears. I think he said he cried or somesuch.




6 posted on 09/18/2008 12:39:24 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Bomb, Bomb. Bomb! Bomb bomb Iran! Bomb. Bomb. Bomb! Bomb bomb Iran!)
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To: llevrok
I read Jeremiah Denton’s book “When Hell Was In Session”. He said everybody broke because of the degree and length of torture. In fact the Pentagon changed it's rules and philosophy regarding POW’s undergoing torture as a result of what was done to our POW’s during the Vietnam War.
7 posted on 09/18/2008 12:39:56 PM PDT by Artemis Webb (Sarah Palin: Babies, Guns, Jesus. HOT DAMN!)
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To: llevrok
Yes, it's true, McCain broke after I forget, 3 or 4 years of torture. Torture works, eventually. The info he gave was dated and useless when finally given. Which is why tactical information is changed regularly to prevent compromise ...

Go talk to anyone in the service, they will say you will break, it's only a matter of how long you hold out. They teach you how to resist for as long as possible.

This is well known, I believe McCain even mentioned it in his acceptance speech.

8 posted on 09/18/2008 12:40:07 PM PDT by Tarpon (Three things matter when selecting a President - character, character and character.)
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To: llevrok

I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking for. Information to prove McCain didn’t break, or information to rebuff Obama’s insinuation.

IIRCC, McCain has acknowleged that he “broke”. I believe he may have signed some document admitting guilt. However, that notwithstanding, you do know that since Vietnam the US Military has changed their stance on resisting the enemy while incaptivity, right?

This was mostly due to American heroes like McCain who held out and held out but “broke” and then they would despair while in captivity as a result of their perceived failure. The rules have changed.


9 posted on 09/18/2008 12:40:54 PM PDT by Obadiah (I remember when the climate never changed, then Bush stole the election.)
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To: llevrok

I’d just ignore this story. The caller who will vote for Obama because McCain “broke” sounded like a total idiot anyway.


10 posted on 09/18/2008 12:40:56 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: llevrok

McCain admitted this a long long time ago and he felt bad about it at the time until his fellow prisoners told him that everyone breaks sooner or later...and with enough mistreatment, and that it is therefore no dishonor.


11 posted on 09/18/2008 12:41:16 PM PDT by kimoajax (Rack'em & Stack'em)
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To: llevrok
Went through Camp slappy, when the Bearded man was there, for reference.

Bottom line.

1) Every man breaks and has a limit. Hold out as long as you can to delay the info.
2) Try not to be used as propaganda.

Thats it. If you did that, you did your best.

12 posted on 09/18/2008 12:41:33 PM PDT by BGHater (Democracy is the road to socialism.)
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To: Tarpon

I bet Obama wouldn’t have broken. He would have pushed for change in the POW camp.


13 posted on 09/18/2008 12:41:40 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: llevrok

Torture Works !


14 posted on 09/18/2008 12:41:49 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: llevrok

*Everyone* breaks eventually under torture. *Everyone*.

At some point, all you want is for the pain to stop, and you’ll do *anything* to stop it.

It’s only a matter of time.


15 posted on 09/18/2008 12:41:49 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: llevrok

In hiis acceptance speech at the convention hs said he had. Anyone would.


16 posted on 09/18/2008 12:42:12 PM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: llevrok

My understanding is that he did break and it was in his booki written many years ago. he said he felt ashamed and even considered suicide while in prison. The biggest shame he felt was because he felt he let his father down.

As is now common knowledge, no person can withstand torture indefinitely.


17 posted on 09/18/2008 12:42:22 PM PDT by 101voodoo
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To: llevrok

Everyone breaks. Under the UCMJ, it is not considered a crime or fault if it is under ‘extreme duress’. I think five years of torture would qualify as extreme duress. Even then, McCain just gave his ship name, something they most likely already had considering he was high profile. Nothing he gave jeopardized the lives of his fellow soldiers.

Reading his book and other’s accounts, most of the time, he was able to evade by giving smarta** answers such as the names of a football team’s line up.


18 posted on 09/18/2008 12:42:39 PM PDT by mnehring (Maverick/Barracuda 2008)
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To: llevrok

‘... John McCain “unfit” to lead because he “broke” when a POW.’

Fine. Hook some liberal testicles up to 220ac with a promise of throwing the switch unless they vote McCain.

That would yield, oh... 100% straight-ticket GOP.


19 posted on 09/18/2008 12:42:51 PM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: llevrok

From John McCain’s acceptance speech at the Republican Convention....

I was in solitary confinement when my captors offered to release me. I knew why. If I went home, they would use it as propaganda to demoralize my fellow prisoners. Our Code said we could only go home in the order of our capture, and there were men who had been shot down before me. I thought about it, though. I wasn’t in great shape, and I missed everything about America. But I turned it down.

A lot of prisoners had it worse than I did. I’d been mistreated before, but not as badly as others. I always liked to strut a little after I’d been roughed up to show the other guys I was tough enough to take it. But after I turned down their offer, they worked me over harder than they ever had before. For a long time. And they broke me.

“When they brought me back to my cell, I was hurt and ashamed, and I didn’t know how I could face my fellow prisoners. The good man in the cell next door, my friend, Bob Craner, saved me. Through taps on a wall he told me I had fought as hard as I could. No man can always stand alone. And then he told me to get back up and fight again for our country and for the men I had the honor to serve with. Because every day they fought for me.

I fell in love with my country when I was a prisoner in someone else’s. I loved it not just for the many comforts of life here. I loved it for its decency; for its faith in the wisdom, justice and goodness of its people. I loved it because it was not just a place, but an idea, a cause worth fighting for. I was never the same again. I wasn’t my own man anymore. I was my country’s.

I’m not running for president because I think I’m blessed with such personal greatness that history has anointed me to save our country in its hour of need. My country saved me. My country saved me, and I cannot forget it. And I will fight for her for as long as I draw breath, so help me God.”

So, this is what made me realize that I should support McCain vigorously instead of as the less of 2 evils. Although there are many things that he has supported with which I disagree, I now understand that he is motivated by pure love of country. For that, he has my deepest respect, and that is the trait that makes me CERTAIN that he is the right man for the job.


20 posted on 09/18/2008 12:42:53 PM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: llevrok

Don’t worry about it. His fellow prisionors understood what it was like to be tortured and didn’t blame or condem him. That’s all you need to know.

The people that condem McCain are weasels. How would they react if tortured? We’ll never know, but anyone that brags they would have been tough enough to withstand torture is an arrogant idiot. Plain and simple.


21 posted on 09/18/2008 12:43:03 PM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: BGHater

Well Obama “BROKE” when not under torture, when he asked the Iraqis to do what he wanted so he would look good.


22 posted on 09/18/2008 12:43:07 PM PDT by DeLaine (Socialism is the grandiose rationalization of petty resentments.)
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To: llevrok
I am almost positive he talks about this in his book... After doing so, he was so distraught and depressed he tried to commit suicide by hanging himself with, I believe, a sheet.
23 posted on 09/18/2008 12:44:10 PM PDT by zimfam007 (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.)
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To: llevrok

The notion that the Presidency should be limited to people who have shown that they can withstand years of brutal torture as POWs without ever “breaking” in any way, is too ludicrous to warrant a response. Don’t dignify this idiot by wasting time formulating a response to his rantings.


24 posted on 09/18/2008 12:44:26 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: llevrok

Yet they rush to kiss the a** of terrorists from Gitmo because we put panties on their head.


25 posted on 09/18/2008 12:44:38 PM PDT by RabidBartender
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To: llevrok

I heard this too. The guy that called in admitted he was voting for O. This was a hit piece on McCain via Rush Limbaughs call in show. Rush handled him well....but this is just an example of the low scumbags the Dems will do.

It’s going to be a bumpy ride but I am hearing more and more that DEMS that normally vote absolutely, positively as it gets closer...are NOT going to vote for this radical, black, white hating wife, junior Senator. Not going to happen. That’s is why they are sending the message today on Fox from their surrogates......IF McCain at the last week of the campaign will show over and over the G*d D*mn America sermon of Jeremiah Wright and soundbyte of him talking about Obama being a politician......the DEMS will stay away adn absolutely NOT vote. I hear the rumblings...it’s going to happen.


26 posted on 09/18/2008 12:45:01 PM PDT by IndianPrincessOK (McCain/Palin...2 pit bulls, one with lipstick! Pigs will fly with lipstick Nov. 4th)
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To: llevrok

Background:

The caller took the view that McCain was unworthy of office, having been broken by his captors in Vietnam. Was an open Obama supporter.

Pointed to McCain book and other McCain statements of giving info to captors.

Assuming the caller was on the level, his reasoning demonstrates that humans are capable of rationalizing anything, and pulling any fantasy out of actual reality.


27 posted on 09/18/2008 12:45:23 PM PDT by mbarker12474 (If thine enemy offend thee, give his childe a drum.)
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To: AppyPappy

Nah! He would have clung to HOPE rather than bitterness, religion and guns.

Given his abandonment of hope in this campaign (i.e., he no longer appears above it all) how long do you think he would last under interrogation?


28 posted on 09/18/2008 12:46:08 PM PDT by neocon1984
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To: llevrok
It is too bad the Dems feel compelled to use this to try to shame McCain. Of course they are too stupid to realize that he has had to live with that all of these years, and the rest of his life. They can never know what he and the others went through. Nor do they particularly care, to them it is a tool to use.
29 posted on 09/18/2008 12:46:16 PM PDT by midwyf (Wyoming Native. Environmentalism is a religion too.)
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To: llevrok

Obama supporter who never "broke" while serving in Vietnam.

30 posted on 09/18/2008 12:46:32 PM PDT by Obadiah (I remember when the climate never changed, then Bush stole the election.)
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To: paterfamilias

Thank you for posting.. I don’t see how in the world Libs think bringing this up will help them. It just reminds us of the core of the man and we forget about a lot of the differences.


31 posted on 09/18/2008 12:46:48 PM PDT by mnehring (Maverick/Barracuda 2008)
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To: llevrok

From the party that says we shouldn’t waterboard terrorists even if it saves American lives?

Puh-lease.

The left tortures school children worse than they allow terrorists to be tortured.


32 posted on 09/18/2008 12:46:51 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: AppyPappy

He would have organized it into a prison camp community.


33 posted on 09/18/2008 12:46:56 PM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours.)
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To: paterfamilias
But after I turned down their offer, they worked me over harder than they ever had before. For a long time. And they broke me.

So much emotion and pain in so few words.

34 posted on 09/18/2008 12:47:59 PM PDT by Terabitten (Proud Hokie, bitterly clinging to his guns and religion...)
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To: 3AngelaD

Shoot, Obamalamadingdong would help aim the guns for them.


35 posted on 09/18/2008 12:48:04 PM PDT by mnehring (Maverick/Barracuda 2008)
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To: AppyPappy

Heck, Obama wouldn’t be tortured...he is one of them!


36 posted on 09/18/2008 12:48:18 PM PDT by Edgerunner (At the heart of every absurdity, lies a liberal lie)
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To: llevrok
admitted his "guilt" as a war terrorist.

This was in McCain's acceptance speech.

37 posted on 09/18/2008 12:48:41 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (DEATH TO PUTIN!)
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To: llevrok

I heard the same idiot claiming that McCain caved into torture. Rush related that a Navy SEAL told him that “you will give in under torture. Everyone has a limit.” Rush told that jerk that McCain endured torture that nobody could resist and gave up the name of his ship - but - when asked about who his fellow pilots were McCain gave them the defensive line of the Green Bay Packers.

Obama isn’t worthy of even being an American let alone president of our country .....


38 posted on 09/18/2008 12:49:00 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("I Believe In The Law Until It Interferes With Justice")
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To: Nervous Tick
But I have never heard that he gave confidential information to his captors.

He gave them the names of the offensive line of the Green Bay Packers! (instead of the names of his crew, or his commanders)

39 posted on 09/18/2008 12:49:40 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: llevrok

Somebody could “break” Obama or any of his supporters in a couple of days max, with just some household goods. Trust me. McCain was being handled by professionals and holding out as long as he did is nothing but testament to his superhuman level of will.


40 posted on 09/18/2008 12:49:46 PM PDT by Uriah_lost (Obama just woke up with a moose head in his bed....)
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To: llevrok

According to Little Dick Durbin, McCain went through nothing compared to the excruciating and intolerable hell of turned up air conditioners that the prisoners are subjected to by our sadistic guards at Gitmo.


41 posted on 09/18/2008 12:50:01 PM PDT by Dahoser (America's great untapped alternative energy source: The Founding Fathers spinning in their graves.)
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To: henkster

But the caller is right - we should clearly subject 0bama to the same torture McCain endured to measure the messiah’s fitness to be commander in chief.

See you in five years, Barry!


42 posted on 09/18/2008 12:50:03 PM PDT by bolobaby
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To: llevrok
A man like Obama, loaded with hubris, would be easy to break. Once they got inside his head he would sign like a bird. Of course, given his appearance an the way he walks he would probably get “special” treatment. (Think T.E. Lawrence)
43 posted on 09/18/2008 12:50:22 PM PDT by RedEyeJack
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To: henkster

Bill did


44 posted on 09/18/2008 12:50:31 PM PDT by SMARTY ('At some point you get tired of swatting flies, and you have to go for the manure heap' Gen. LeMay)
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To: llevrok
I heard that too. It bothered me as like Rush, I haven't read McCain's book. But after sometime in captivity, I don't think whatever McCain said to his captures really was actionable intelligence.

The real thing was this was a stupid sounding seminar caller. I've been listening on the net to Tom Marr in the morning. Yesterday he had a similar call. Tom gave him hell in such a classy way. I miss him in NY.

45 posted on 09/18/2008 12:50:41 PM PDT by AmericaUnite
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To: llevrok
I heard that call, and the man was an idiot. He was saying that when McCain 'broke', he gave up operational intelligence by naming the ship, its location, and battle plans. For one thing, McCain probably didn't have any information about overall battle plans, just the flight into for that day. As for the other, by the time they 'broke' him, any information he might have had at the time of his capture would have been irrelevant, anyway. The caller was claiming that McCain couldn't take the Oath of Office to protect and defend the Cconstitution, because he'd already admitted that he was 'broken' and gave up to the enemy.

Sounds like it's just an Obama talking point, and Rush asked the man if he was planning to vote for Obama instead of McCain because of that. The man said he was, and Rush was just incredulous, because he pointed out that if he talked to any Special Forces guy or Navy Seal, they'd tell him that everybody breaks, and it only proves one thing; that TORTURE WORKS. Rush also pointed out that Obama wouldn't have been able to hold out for one day, compared to the weeks and months that John McCain endured. Rush also pointed out that Obama would be more dangerous for the country, because from the first day in office, he'd be handing the country over to Marxism and Socialism, willingly, without anyone torturing him to do it.

46 posted on 09/18/2008 12:50:58 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Spktyr

“*Everyone* breaks eventually under torture. *Everyone*.”

Actually, if you’ve read McCain’s book, there was apparently one guy who didn’t. He died while resisting to the very end.


47 posted on 09/18/2008 12:51:17 PM PDT by bolobaby
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To: llevrok

The same accusations have been leveled at McCain by people on this forum. It’s not just the liberals.


48 posted on 09/18/2008 12:51:18 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: llevrok

It only takes about 45 minutes to break the strongest man when being tortured. When I was in the service, many years ago, they told us to do anything we could to not talk. I understand that today, they tell them to go ahead and tell them anything. It won’t make any real difference because they’ll break you anyway.


49 posted on 09/18/2008 12:51:26 PM PDT by RC2
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To: llevrok
Yeah, I heard it today, some bozo named "Jason" called in to whine about how McCain is "unfit to be President" because he broke under torture while a POW.

Maybe Jason needs to get his rear end over to Vietnam and sit in a tiger cage for a couple of years, while undergoing daily beatings and shock torture?

50 posted on 09/18/2008 12:52:05 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
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