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Is America becoming socialist?
The Times of India ^ | 21 Sep 2008 | Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar

Posted on 09/21/2008 9:59:45 AM PDT by vietvet67

Socialists, like Hugo Chavez in Venezuela or Indira Gandhi in India, are famous for nationalising the biggest corporations. But the US government has taken over three of its biggest corporations within two weeks. Has the US turned socialist?

American right-wingers moan that this is indeed the case. Meanwhile, Indian leftists are stunned at nationalisation in a country they view as pitilessly capitalist.

Two of the nationalised corporations, Fannie May and Freddie Mac, are by far the biggest mortgage lenders in the world, with $5 trillion of mortgages and loans on their books. That’s five times India’s GDP, to put their size in perspective. The third corporation, AIG, is the biggest insurance company in the world. No nationalisation in professedly socialist countries was ever so big.

Leftists suspect the US takeovers aim to rescue rich shareholders. Not so. The government will acquire 79.9% of the shares of these companies at virtually zero cost, pushing down the share price close to zero. So, rich shareholders have been wiped out, and the bosses of all three corporations have been sacked.

This is not a rescue of the rich. It is a rescue of ordinary people who need mortgages and a functioning housing market, which would have collapsed had Fannie May and Freddie Mac gone bust. The takeover of AIG will save millions of insurance policy holders from losing their coverage and annuities. The takeovers aim to prevent financial panic from spreading and dragging down the whole economy, as happened in the Great Depression of the 1930s.

The usual procedure in a capitalist welfare state is to let mismanaged companies go bust, penalising the shareholders and managers, and then provide safety nets to those adversely affected.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesofindia.indiatimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bernake; capitalism; economicpolicy; fanniemae; fascism; financialcrisis; housingbubble; india; nationalization; paulson; socialism; wallstreet
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1 posted on 09/21/2008 9:59:45 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: vietvet67

Yes.


2 posted on 09/21/2008 10:01:17 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (What's good for Enron is good for Fannie and Freddie! I want some convictions! NOW!!!!!)
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To: vietvet67
Just think, with the government owning AIG we will have a good start with "universal" healthcare!!
3 posted on 09/21/2008 10:01:59 AM PDT by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: unixfox

Next up: Nationalized Oil!


4 posted on 09/21/2008 10:03:01 AM PDT by CommieCutter (THE BIAS OF THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA HAS FINALLY HIT THE MAINSTREAM!)
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To: CommieCutter

Yep, the frog is boiling.


5 posted on 09/21/2008 10:03:31 AM PDT by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: vietvet67

Yes and no. It really depends on proper management of these takeovers. I believe the intent is to use funds to soak up ownership until they are out of the water, then place the stock back onto the public marketplace.

Of course, we all know what happens when the government intends to do something on a small scale. Social Security had similar beginnings.


6 posted on 09/21/2008 10:03:39 AM PDT by TheNewPundit
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To: vietvet67

No, we’re an Oligarchy,Thank You.


7 posted on 09/21/2008 10:03:40 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus (( commander of the simian host))
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To: vietvet67

Sure looks that way to me.


8 posted on 09/21/2008 10:03:56 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Voting Conservative isn't for the faint of heart.)
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To: vietvet67

No. We are already Socialist.


9 posted on 09/21/2008 10:05:18 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: vietvet67

The truth is when many fiscal conservatives talk of cutting govt, what they really mean is cut pork projects in other states but not in my community.


10 posted on 09/21/2008 10:06:39 AM PDT by yongin (Don't get mad at MSM smears. Do GOTV work for Palin)
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To: vietvet67

Genuine Americans aren’t ever going to be socialists. Many visitors and idiots are.


11 posted on 09/21/2008 10:06:44 AM PDT by Hattie
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To: vietvet67
Becoming?

Hell, we've been rushing headlong into Socialism for the last 45 years.

L

12 posted on 09/21/2008 10:07:53 AM PDT by Lurker (She's not a lesbian, she doesn't whine, she doesn't hate her country, and she's not afraid of guns.)
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To: vietvet67

the correct question is; “when will america stop being socialist?”

IMHO


13 posted on 09/21/2008 10:08:48 AM PDT by ripley
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To: vietvet67
Is this guy Catholic?


14 posted on 09/21/2008 10:09:50 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.")
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To: ChildOfThe60s

We have been since FDR and his ^*$$%#)% New Deal.


15 posted on 09/21/2008 10:10:36 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.")
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To: vietvet67
Of course it is! Why would you think anything else? Let's think for a moment why:

  1. The Constitution hasn't served as a limit on Federal Government power for over 50 years. Congress does what it wants, and the Supreme Court even invents "rights" that aren't there
  2. A large percentage of the population doesn't pay any taxes at all, and in fact some even get "tax credits" - a tax refund for taxes they never paid. A majority of the population thinks its OK to take money from one group and give it to another.
  3. Our electoral system lets any idiot vote, and the press and many independent groups make it a goal to to enroll as many of these idiots as possible. A large number of these idiots can't even tell you who the current VP is.
  4. Once elected, politicians have no incentive to do anything other than spew partisan rhetoric and negotiate deals to bring pork back to their states. The electorate enthusiastically votes these self-serving, pork-laden, partisans back into office year after year.
  5. Congress routinely passes a budget that spends more than it takes in. This is a "hidden" tax on future generations.
Quite frankly, with all that going for us, I'm surprised things aren't worse than they are.
16 posted on 09/21/2008 10:10:37 AM PDT by Scutter
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To: vietvet67

Becoming?! BECOMING?!


17 posted on 09/21/2008 10:10:55 AM PDT by Silly (Question O-thority.com)
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To: yongin

You’re absolutely right. Everyone’s too comfortable for anything to change for a long time.


18 posted on 09/21/2008 10:11:22 AM PDT by villagerjoel ("Tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." CS Lewis)
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To: vietvet67

I’m not an expert, but these recent buyouts are scary. I think it might be a little worse than the US becoming socialist. We are headed towards financial disaster. I hate to be doom-and-gloom, but this weekend our economic future has never looked darker. And the more government owns and controls, the less power we have to allow capitalism and the free market to correct itself. We are left with the government running the show.


19 posted on 09/21/2008 10:11:59 AM PDT by LiberConservative ("Typical" white guy voting McCain/Palin)
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To: unixfox

“Swaminomics” ? Lol.


20 posted on 09/21/2008 10:13:56 AM PDT by libh8er
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To: LiberConservative

“We are left with the government running the show.”

And we know how that usually works out..


21 posted on 09/21/2008 10:14:01 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: TheNewPundit

“I believe the intent is to use funds to soak up ownership until they are out of the water, then place the stock back onto the public marketplace.”

Thats the other half of this problem no one is talking about... Apart from the bailout itslf, now that the gov’t effectively owns these entities it will NEVER privatize them again. EVER. The federal government is like the Borg... it only swallows and assimilates. No matter how fat and retarded it gets it ALWAYS thinks it’s smarter than you.

Mark my words, Democrats will use this bailout as a gateway to seizure of more private entities. This is the biggest step towards Socialism since the New Deal. We are in very deep trouble. This is just the beginning. Joe American is about to get a mmuch smaller paycheck.


22 posted on 09/21/2008 10:15:26 AM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: vietvet67

The scary thing is:

There is socialist idealist on the verge of winning the election this November. It’s like the perfect socialist storm.


23 posted on 09/21/2008 10:15:39 AM PDT by CriticalJ
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To: vietvet67

Becoming?


24 posted on 09/21/2008 10:17:54 AM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: navyguy

“Apart from the bailout itslf, now that the gov’t effectively owns these entities it will NEVER privatize them again. EVER.”

That is my biggest fear in all of this.


25 posted on 09/21/2008 10:18:45 AM PDT by TheNewPundit
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To: vietvet67

The US takeovers, by contrast, are temporary affairs, to be followed by re-privatisation once the crisis is resolved. The corporations will be obliged to sell chunks of their assets to pay off debts and attain stability. They will then be re-privatised. They will emerge greatly shrunken, and perhaps broken into smaller units.

Nationalisation is a misleading word for this process. It is better called forced restructuring by the government, as a pre-emptive safety net. It aims to save citizens from pain, but within a market economy framework.


The US Gov’t spending my $$$ to bailout these companies makes me VERY uncomfortable and YES the US is becoming Socialist. If the described outcome above works out, I think that we may well have dodged a bullet. However, if those companies are not quickly removed from the Gov’ts control, they never will be...

Big time CEO’s that green light these kinds of risks, banking on the Tax payers to bail them out if things don’t go well, should have ALL there assets taken from them and be thrown in jail.

Bad guys not being punished = injustice.
Pawns (like taxpayers) being punished = injustice.

How many more bailouts will happen next month?


26 posted on 09/21/2008 10:19:01 AM PDT by mad puppy (Never have I felt so politically radical and I swear I didn't move an inch.)
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To: libh8er

‘Swaminomics’ is a section on the Times of India / The Economic Times newspapers:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articlelist/msid-21649661.cms

The Times of India >>> Columnists >>> Opinion >>> Swaminomics

by

Swaminathan A Aiyar


27 posted on 09/21/2008 10:20:11 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: FlingWingFlyer

I can see both sides of this. Going through a depression is not something anyone wants, but by bailing them out all we do is spread out the duration of the bad times.

However, what I do expect to see is, everyone of these managers and CEOs that cooked the books go to prison and have all their money stripped from them. This is the only way to help prevent this type of thing in the future. If the only penatly is that they no longer get to steal/mismanage a business then there is no reason to stop doing this.


28 posted on 09/21/2008 10:20:19 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: vietvet67

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder[er] is less to fear.”


29 posted on 09/21/2008 10:26:06 AM PDT by ventanax5
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To: Lurker

Agree.


30 posted on 09/21/2008 10:26:36 AM PDT by Budge (DUmocrat bumper sticker: "I'm voting for Sarah Palin and that guy that's on her ticket!")
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To: vietvet67
On a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being 100% Socialist, we are on a unstoppable death spiral passing 6.

With two terms of B. Hussein OBAMA you can expect a full 10 by the time he leaves office, that is.... IF.... he leaves office!

31 posted on 09/21/2008 10:28:51 AM PDT by PISANO
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To: CriticalJ

There is socialist idealist on the verge of winning the election this November. It’s like the perfect socialist storm.


This is Not a Conincidence. There is a plan in operation now to bring down the American economy and simultaneously present B. Hussein as the savior who can solve all our problems. But he is Not a socialist, he is a Communist and when he is done America will be an atheistic Communist Muslim state. It will be the Islamic Republic of America, with Hussein as Caliph.


32 posted on 09/21/2008 10:29:26 AM PDT by FFranco
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To: vietvet67

Does the Pope eat chicken?


33 posted on 09/21/2008 10:33:48 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed ... ICE's toll-free tip hotline 1-866-DHS-2-ICE ... 9/11 .. Never FoRget!!!)
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To: ripley

When we get rid of the Washington “flim flam artists” and elect decent and honest and truthful people to guide our once great Nation.


34 posted on 09/21/2008 10:34:49 AM PDT by mulligan (A)
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To: vietvet67

What do the Communists want you to believe is inevitable Communism or socialism?
If you study Marx’ Communist Manifesto you will find that in essence Marx said the proletarian revolution would establish the SOCIALIST dictatorship of the proletariat.

To achieve the SOCIALIST dictatorship of the proletariat, three things would have to be accomplished:
(I) The elimination of all right to private property;
(2) The dissolution of the family unit; and
(3) Destruction of what Marx referred to as the “opiate of the people,” religion.

Marx went on to state that when the dictatorship of the proletariat had accomplished these three things throughout the world, and after some undetermined length of time ..... the all powerful state’ would miraculously wither away and state socialism would give way to Communism.


35 posted on 09/21/2008 10:37:07 AM PDT by Just A Nobody (PISSANT for President '08 - NEVER AGAIN...Support our Troops! Beware the ENEMEDIA)
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To: vietvet67

Knowing that Economic Marxism would never sell in the U.S., the followers of Antonio Gramsci (The Frankfurt School) brought Cultural Marxism (P.C.) to America.

Fannie and Freddie were promoted using Cultural Marxist categories. I.e., it was all about blacks and women, not about socialism. Remember when Edith Bunker couldn’t get a loan, because she was a woman? Remember the “Lou Grant” episode about “redlining”? The Carter and Clinton administrations branded anybody who grumbled about the cost or the corruption at Fannie and Freddie as racist and sexist.

The principle is: Government gets its foot in the door using Cultural Marxist excuses. Then, loot the business or institution. Then, when it is clear to everyone that the industry or institution is teetering, bail it out, “to save capitalism.”

Presto! You’ve nationalized/socialized a huge sector of the economy, without ever uttering a word in favor of socialism. In fact, keeping up a steady patter AGAINST socialism while socializing the economy just adds to the fun—and profit.


36 posted on 09/21/2008 10:37:46 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Very well put, and pithy to boot.


37 posted on 09/21/2008 10:46:31 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Beware the Bear.)
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To: Just A Nobody

You are basically eliminating the Constitution. Amendment I and II are co-dependent. The 2nd Amendment is the reset button for the Constitution and I guarantee you, it will be used.


38 posted on 09/21/2008 10:55:48 AM PDT by DownInFlames (C)
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To: vietvet67
America is Socialist and will seal it with Obama’s election.
39 posted on 09/21/2008 10:55:59 AM PDT by gunnedah
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To: LiberConservative

government running the show - exactly the way the Democrats and RINO’s want it - with THEM at the head of it siphoning off big chunks of it for their own personal enrichment for “walking around money”. The Democrats had Fannie & Freddie for their little playgound for a long time; any attempt to get in to look at the books by someone unbiased was blocked by Dems. If that hadn’t been bypassed of late, the little corrupt F&F setup would have continued unabated and no one the wiser even now. McCain predicted it in 2005 and tried to pass a bill dealing with it and heading it off, but as usual, the Dems blocked it, I suppose with RINO help.


40 posted on 09/21/2008 10:57:17 AM PDT by Twinkie (WORDS FAIL ME !)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
BINGO!!!
41 posted on 09/21/2008 10:58:10 AM PDT by jamaksin
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To: vietvet67

We are still basically capitalist and free market. But there are a lot of parasitical socialist bloodsuckers living off our prosperity: the IRS, Welfare, bailouts, farm subsidies, the Congress, affirmative action, and the IRS.
It is a tribute to our strength and hard-working nature that we are still doing quite will in spite of all the socialist forces at work.


42 posted on 09/21/2008 11:12:31 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (liberalism = serious mental deficiency)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Sometime’s the truth only takes three letters.


43 posted on 09/21/2008 11:18:55 AM PDT by org.whodat (Republicans should support the SAM Walton business model, and then drill???)
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To: navyguy

Or “The Blob”! It was like a creeping mess that coated people and things, killed and. I don’t know if you ever saw that. There was the old 50s version, then there was the 80s-90s version. Personally, I liked the old one with Steve McQueen best!


44 posted on 09/21/2008 11:20:30 AM PDT by dsutah
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To: yongin

No, we’re trying to prevent a 700 Billion dollar bailout from being signed into law tomorrow morning !


45 posted on 09/21/2008 11:28:45 AM PDT by jd777
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To: vietvet67
Socialists, like Hugo Chavez in Venezuela or Indira Gandhi in India, are famous for nationalising the biggest corporations. But the US government has taken over three of its biggest corporations within two weeks. Has the US turned socialist?

American right-wingers moan that this is indeed the case. Meanwhile, Indian leftists are stunned at nationalisation in a country they view as pitilessly capitalist.

"Moan"? I got your 'moan' right HERE:
Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto

  1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
  2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
  3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
  4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
  5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
  6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
  7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
  8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
  9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
  10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Sound familiar? It should, most are already US Law. And if Barry gets elected it will get WORSE.

Nikita Khrushchev was correct, they will bury us from within.

46 posted on 09/21/2008 11:34:22 AM PDT by Condor51 (I have guns in my nightstand because a Cop won't fit)
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To: vietvet67

It’s already mostly socialist. That’s why it’s in such a rut.


47 posted on 09/21/2008 11:52:11 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

The columnist is one of the few who have a cue and is always willing to point out that most Emperors have no clothes. His is always a refreshing, thoughtful point of view...kind of like Wes Pruden here at home.


48 posted on 09/21/2008 12:17:23 PM PDT by madrastex
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To: vietvet67

Yes - Aiyer is spot on.

Is there any doubt given this latest bit of socialism and corporate welfare?


49 posted on 09/21/2008 12:29:04 PM PDT by indcons (People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news. - A. J. Liebling)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Ping


50 posted on 09/21/2008 12:29:33 PM PDT by indcons (People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news. - A. J. Liebling)
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