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Senate to vote on bailout Wednesday (additions made by Senate)
Market Watch ^ | 10:00 p.m. EDT Sept. 30, 2008 | Ruth Mantell, Greg Robb & Robert Schroeder

Posted on 09/30/2008 8:08:08 PM PDT by Fred

The package before the Senate will be similar to the House version, with these additions, the New York Times reported in its online edition:

* The higher limit for insured bank deposits sought by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., which asked to raise the cap to $250,000 from $100,000, to quell opposition by individual and small-business depositors.

* Tax breaks for businesses and alternative energy, part of a package that has been caught in a stalemate in the House of Representatives. The Senate version of the gridlocked tax legislation would cost more than $100 billion and extend and expand many individual and business tax breaks, including tax credits for the production and use of renewable energy sources, like solar energy and wind power, the Times said. It would also extend the business tax credit for research and development, expand the child tax credit, protect millions of families from the alternative minimum tax and provide tax relief to victims of recent floods, tornadoes and severe storms, according to the Times..

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said details of the proposal wouldn't be available until Wednesday, the Times reported.

If the Senate approves the package, it would go to the House, which doesn't reconvene until noon Eastern on Thursday.

The House's rejection triggered an historic, 777-point drop for the Dow Jones Industrial Average. The Senate development comes after members of both houses went back to the drawing board Tuesday in an effort to craft a new version of rescue package for the financial markets.

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 110th; 2008; bailout; congress; democrats; economicpolicy; economy; electionpresident; elections; fdic; financialcrisis; geopolitics; mccain; obama; obamabiden; obamatruthfile; propagandawingofdnc; reid; wallstreet
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To: longtermmemmory
McCain needs to remember: LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE H#LL OUT OF THE WAY.

A-a-a-a-men.

51 posted on 10/01/2008 5:40:57 AM PDT by Liz (Taxpayer: one who works for the govt but doesn't have to take a civil service test. R. Reagan.)
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To: Liz
McCain needs to stop this PHONY bipartisan game. We have two parties for a reason, we need two parties. Take a good look at New York, the state has been HIJACKED by the Liberal, socialist,communist left. Bloomberg one of the left that hates the firemen, the policemen and every chance he gets he cuts funding or man power. Nothing can get done in New York except what the Demorats wants, just like the bill the want to pass. BLOOMBERG WANTS TO CHANGE THE TERM LIMITS HE DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE UP HIS FREE RIDE AND POWER. Bloomberg got elected under FALSE pretense and that should require jail time, a con man that lied to the
people and is slowly putting New York in great danger. It's
election time and Al Scharpo, Jesse Jackson and their thugs will controll the streets, not enough police force to
oversee the corruption, Election Fraud.
McCain needs to put up or shut up because electrons fraud
will be at it's highest. McCain has gone to the communist side of the isle more than once. It often made me wonder, what is he afraid of?
McCain took an oath and he needs to call for the removal of the corruption in our government. Anyone that doesn’t call for Chris Dodd, Barney Frank and yes Charlie Rangle to be removed from office is also illegally holding on to their seats. Polosi and Harry Reid need to be removed, where is our leadership? Why hasn't the FBI been called in to remove them from office?
Ohio will vote before they get to hear the Debate of Vice Pres.candidates, Obama and the left are hijacking the election in Ohio.
If you know any homeless people tell them the going rate from the left is a Thousand dollars a head instead of their Ten dollar a head pay off. Homeless people were making about $700 dollars for the day and than told to get out of town. That's how Harry Reid got elected.
New York has a pimp for a Governor and he is going to bleed the people for all he can.
New York gets a raise in their rent, section 8,welfare paid by the taxpayers. The so called low income apartment complexes are bleeding the tax payers, government is now paying a higher rent percentage. WHY?
52 posted on 10/01/2008 7:02:56 AM PDT by rebapiper
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Hmmm, I thought the credit was all dried up in this “economic crisis”. I was offered a credit card when I made a $6 purchase at Target this weekend. Same goes for JC Penney when I bought a shirt. I’m not seeing an impact on easy credit. The retail stores can’t give away them cards fast enough.

It can't be! We are all going to have to start eating dog food and living out of dumpsters if Congress doesn't give away a trillion dollars. I know it! I heard President Bush and Nancy Pelosi say it.

53 posted on 10/01/2008 7:42:16 AM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender ("It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." -- Patrick Henry)
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To: All
Well I see it's business as usual in the Senate bailout bill. From the National Review Online web-site:

New Tax earmarks in Bailout bill
- Film and Television Productions (Sec. 502)
- Wooden Arrows designed for use by children (Sec. 503)
- 6 page package of earmarks for litigants in the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident, Alaska (Sec. 504)

Tax earmark “extenders” in the bailout bill.
- Virgin Island and Puerto Rican Rum (Section 308)
- American Samoa (Sec. 309)
- Mine Rescue Teams (Sec. 310)
- Mine Safety Equipment (Sec. 311)
- Domestic Production Activities in Puerto Rico (Sec. 312)
- Indian Tribes (Sec. 314, 315)
- Railroads (Sec. 316)
- Auto Racing Tracks (317)
- District of Columbia (Sec. 322)
- Wool Research (Sec. 325)

Earmarks are the lubricant of politics.

54 posted on 10/01/2008 7:57:19 AM PDT by Fury
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To: ThePythonicCow

I’ve been trying to call my NJ reps and sens all morning.
Actually got a very pleasant live person in Rep Saxton’s Wahington, DC office. I registered my “no bail out” position.

However, it seems the Sen. Menendeza and Sen Lautenberg sites are down or something. Is there anyone out there who can help me out? Need phone or fax number or email.


55 posted on 10/01/2008 8:15:36 AM PDT by dools007
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: batter

This isn’t Constitional. ALL MONEY BILLS MUST ORIGINATE IN THE HOUSE!!!


57 posted on 10/01/2008 8:48:51 AM PDT by Pfesser ( Georgia boy)
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To: All
REPOST - this time with correct numbers:

To: All FReepers

If you are having trouble getting through to your Senators' offices this morning to register your opinion on this issue, here's a few numbers that may be helpful in locating them...

Senate Republican Cloakroom: 202-224- 6191

Senate Democrat Cloakroom: 202-224- 4691

And this is a good link for other important numbers on the Hill.

58 posted on 10/01/2008 9:10:46 AM PDT by tgslTakoma
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To: Fred

They announced the vote will be at 7:30 eastern.


59 posted on 10/01/2008 9:25:27 AM PDT by lainie
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To: Fury
"Earmarks are the lubricant of politics."

I prefer to call it "Pork Barrel" or "Wasteful Spending." I love all these politically correct terms they come out with to soften horrible actions up to make it seem less evil.

60 posted on 10/01/2008 9:29:42 AM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender ("It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." -- Patrick Henry)
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To: Pfesser

You can’t say “all money bills.” Income-increasing (iow, taxation) bills must originate in the house. Spending can originate in either. (The fact that they plan to “make money” on this travesty is just more evidence that the system is completely afu.)


61 posted on 10/01/2008 9:42:07 AM PDT by lainie
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To: rebapiper; Condor51; calcowgirl; AuntB; raybbr
McCain needs to stop this PHONY bipartisan game. We have two parties for a reason, we need two parties.

You got that right. Our very freedoms--- the crucial two-party system of checks and balances---are threatened here.

It's disgusting to see Lieberman hanging onto McC--touted as McC's top surrogate. AT THE SAME TIME he's sucking up to McC, Lieberman writes a $100,000 check to the Dem party.....to keep his Dem creds. Lieberman imperils our freedoms--he is a threat to democracy.

=============================================

Even more threatening is LIEberman's hidden agenda as a pukeneo stooge. This cadre of unrepentant conservative haters keep kicking conservatives to the curb (except we won't stay down).

The visceral hatred for religion is embodied in the complete religious cleansing of the Dem party. They're now squatting in the Repub party with the same goal. END GAME Religious cleansing of America (excerpt from the pukes "National Greatness" flim-flam). Pukeneos are also cheerleaders for amnesty, the ones trying to shove amnesty down our throats.

Lieberman makes sure McC's leash is tightened and that McC is reading from the puke script.

He's hoping he'll get federal job in a McC admin. Just what we need to completely destroy the US political system---Lieberman in a Repub Cabinet---with conservative-hating pukes in complete control of the US government.

62 posted on 10/01/2008 9:46:38 AM PDT by Liz (Taxpayer: one who works for the govt but doesn't have to take a civil service test. R. Reagan.)
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To: Liz; All

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2094967/posts

Here’ the link for live discussion of Senate bill- I think the idea is for us to try and keep info, links and tips on one thread.


63 posted on 10/01/2008 9:48:46 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom

Thanks.


64 posted on 10/01/2008 9:53:17 AM PDT by Liz (Taxpayer: one who works for the govt but doesn't have to take a civil service test. R. Reagan.)
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To: Liz
This Senate Bill is 100% BULLSH*T! Now WTF does any of that have to do with the Banking and Wall Street problems. Answer: N-O-T-H-I-N-G. And it sure won't help a small business get a loan next week to meet a payroll. Or John Doe get a car loan.

If this pos gets to the House it should be rejected outright by every Republican.

65 posted on 10/01/2008 10:12:08 AM PDT by Condor51 (I have guns in my nightstand because a Cop won't fit)
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To: tgslTakoma; BurbankKarl

from Boxer’s front page:

Technical Note: E-mail Difficulties

Because of widespread citizen concerns about the ongoing financial crisis, the U.S. Senate is currently experiencing a higher volume of e-mail traffic than normal. Although we realize that communicating with your Senator is a vital part of the democratic process, you might experience difficulty when trying to submit an email through our contact form. If you do, please try again at a later time when demand is not so high. System engineers are working to resolve all technical issues as soon as possible.

(she’s doing EVERYTHING SHE CAN, PEOPLE. what MORE DO YOU WANT?)

heh...what % of those clogging up the senate’s bandwidth is screaming FOR the bailout you figure? ;)


66 posted on 10/01/2008 11:49:43 AM PDT by lainie
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Goodbye Senate Republican RINOS. Don’t let the door hit you where the sun don’t shine. You’re gone.

We Americans are tired of your polictical bs.


67 posted on 10/01/2008 11:59:08 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote.)
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To: Fred

They porked it up....it went from 3 pages, to 110 pages, to 300 plus pages!

They were saying there was a tax break on wooden arrows on Fox Business News.

The Senate is one CORRUPT body politic...


68 posted on 10/01/2008 1:03:53 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: wmfights
The alternative will be the govt. taking over home lending by being the only secondary market for banks to recapitalize. The plans involving the govt. buying the securities can't guarantee that the banks will start buying these securities in the future. Banks operate with a herd mentality. They are all afraid to buy these securities and will pull back on credit lending. IOW, buying these securities will not guarantee any loosening of the credit markets.

People extend credit to make money.

And when people's credit is good, they will get credit.

Too much bad credit has been extended (with the Gov't interfering) and we are paying for it.

Credit isn't a right!

69 posted on 10/01/2008 1:13:05 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration ('we don't make compromises-we make Marines')
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To: fortheDeclaration
And when people's credit is good, they will get credit.

Unless you're a well connected investment bank.

When I read that Paulson was conferring with Goldman Saks (who had a 20B stake in AIG) prior to the bail out of AIG I blew my top. This whole thing is so "in bred" by a bunch of northeast elitists and the rest of the country pays the price.

Very credible people have presented alternatives that don't cost anywhere near as much and do not involve the govt. taking so dramatic a role in determining who wins and loses, yet these ideas are ignored or just given lip service. It is very frustrating.

70 posted on 10/01/2008 3:35:02 PM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: dools007
Congressional web sites have been intermittently down for several days, and extremely slow (minutes to refresh each screen) when up. I have used them late at night, when they were in extreme slow mode. I haven't tried other contact means.

Try starting at one of:

If they don't work (page never comes up), then try again a few hours later.

Good luck.

71 posted on 10/01/2008 4:50:37 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (By their false faith in Man as God, the left would destroy us. They call this faith change.)
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To: ThePythonicCow

People are melting the phone lines with calls to their representatives. I tried to call my Senator’s office about four times today about and couldn’t get thru. I did get a call into one of my Senators and told him to vote no on the bailout.


72 posted on 10/01/2008 6:50:04 PM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender ("It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." -- Patrick Henry)
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To: wmfights
[And when people's credit is good, they will get credit. Unless you're a well connected investment bank.]

When I read that Paulson was conferring with Goldman Saks (who had a 20B stake in AIG) prior to the bail out of AIG I blew my top. This whole thing is so "in bred" by a bunch of northeast elitists and the rest of the country pays the price. Very credible people have presented alternatives that don't cost anywhere near as much and do not involve the govt. taking so dramatic a role in determining who wins and loses, yet these ideas are ignored or just given lip service. It is very frustrating.

Because it is a big scam!

73 posted on 10/01/2008 9:55:15 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration ('we don't make compromises-we make Marines')
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To: fortheDeclaration
Because it is a big scam!

I think you're right. These big time investment bankers and traders want open and free markets until they get caught up in something that doesn't work out. Then they want the govt. to bail them out.

Also, in every sector of the economy that you see problems with pricing, services and the need for govt. help you find the govt. has politicized that product or service. Off the top I can think of health care, college costs, auto industry, and now the financial markets. In the last case, the govt. pushed sub prime lending so "everyone can own a home" and now middle America pays the price.

I think McCain has probably lost the election because of this. He could have really separated himself from the DC crowd and shown he wants to represent middle America, but he didn't. We all want change. We want someone to go in there and clean up this cess pool and McCain has shown he won't.

74 posted on 10/02/2008 5:21:46 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: wmfights

This is why we don’t elect Senators to the Presidency, they are too prone to compromise and cut deals.


75 posted on 10/02/2008 5:37:19 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ('we don't make compromises-we make Marines')
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To: fortheDeclaration
The only thing that keeps me going when I see this garbage is I know it is all a part of God's perfect plan.

The Rats just won the election and I think we are entering a very "dark" time (no pun intended). I believe there is a very real possibility that freedoms will be lost, such as talk radio and internet web sites, then it will be increased regulation of places of worship. IOW, all vocal opposition will be slowly muted.

LORD help us!

76 posted on 10/02/2008 5:50:59 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: freekitty; fortheDeclaration; wmfights; griffin; TBP; supercat; April Lexington

Everything you folks have said is correct. I have a degree in Economics (that and 50 cents will buy me a copy of the NY Post)

If it’s any consolation, I am not proud of myself for supporting this bailout bill.

I’m ashamed of myself. I know what it makes me:

A “Conservative of Convenience”

I support it strictly for selfish reasons. Namely, I’m afraid of being po. I tried being po. I’ve researched poverty first hand and I made a decision....I didn’t like it. So I decided I wanted no part of it and worked hard to make money.

I support it only because I don’t want to see another 777 point drop in the Dow. I’m selfish.

I feel like the Conservatives of Convenience who claim to want limited government, except when government will intervene and get rid of stinky smelly smokers in bars that are private property, than they love big government.

I should be and I am ashamed of myself FWIW.


77 posted on 10/02/2008 6:22:29 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
I support it only because I don’t want to see another 777 point drop in the Dow. I’m selfish.

What does does tomorrow's DJIA have to do with the amount of money I'll get when I start cashing out in 30 years or so? As far as I can see, not a whole lot. Sometimes (often) markets are priced above the fundamental worth of stocks, and sometimes they're priced below. So what.

If the average FR post today were 100 characters shorter than the average post yesterday, given that FR has 2,000,000 posts, would that mean that FR somehow 'lost' 200 megs of post-stuff between yesterday and today?

Stock prices may sometimes be useful as a means of predicting value, but there are many factors that affect stock price (especially in the short term) that do not affect value. So why do you care about trying to maintain high prices?

78 posted on 10/02/2008 8:05:06 PM PDT by supercat
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To: supercat

You just summarized the problem somewhat well. Not very well, few people get your FR gazillion post analogy, but I do.

Gubmint tried to re-price the lending risk through central planning. Socialism has never worked, doesn’t work and will never ever work.

Anybody paying attention gets it.


79 posted on 10/02/2008 8:11:20 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
You just summarized the problem somewhat well. Not very well, few people get your FR gazillion post analogy, but I do.

The basic notion is that (average size of today's posts) times (total number of posts) is about as meaningful as (average market share price today) times (number of shares outstanding). The former number is clearly meaningless; the latter number is no less so.

Gubmint tried to re-price the lending risk through central planning.

The avoidance of moral hazard should IMHO be one of the most important considerations when formulating policy. A policy which is would achieve mediocre results but is free of moral hazard is apt to be better than one which could create great results, but has some seemingly-slight moral hazards. If moral hazards exist, markets will adapt to exploit them.

BTW, I've sometimes thought it might be good if the FDIC policy were to, instead of insuring accounts for 100% of face value, instead insure them for face value minus, say, three years' reverse-compounded interest (so if an account was earning 3%, its value would be reduced by about 8.8%). That would encourage people to give some consideration to how solid their bank was, and give a competitive advantage to a bank that was more solid but offered slightly inferior returns. Unfortunately, insuring at anything less than 100% face value might result in more runs on banks, so I don't really know the best solution.

80 posted on 10/02/2008 9:27:34 PM PDT by supercat
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To: supercat

Whoever wrote these kids songs or fairy tales when we were young was a genius....

This whole thing reminds me of the Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly. Or it should read....There was a great Republic who swallowed some Socialism and than tried to throw some greenbacks to catch the socialism. Substitute Marxism for a fly and Barney Frank for the spider.

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly. (ACORN and leftist special interest group who think that home ownership is a constitutional right)
I dunno why she swallowed that fly,
Perhaps she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a spider,( (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and lax lending standards)
That wriggled and jiggled and wiggled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly -
Perhaps she’ll die.

There was an old lady who swallowed a bird; (Wall Street firms who will buy the loans that FNMA and FHLMC won’t buy because the Gubmint forced lenders to make the loans)
How absurd, to swallow a bird!
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wriggled and jiggled and wiggled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly -
Perhaps she’ll die

There was an old lady who swallowed a cat. (Bailout bill)
Imagine that, she swallowed a cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wriggled and jiggled and wiggled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she’ll die


81 posted on 10/02/2008 9:49:35 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
Perhaps she’ll die

I know an old lady who swallowed a horse... (an even bigger bailout bill).

82 posted on 10/02/2008 9:59:06 PM PDT by supercat
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To: supercat

I’m not going to sugarcoat this carrot for the horse.

This is really bad.

Internal Socialism will do what the Nazis, Japs, USSR couldn’t do to America.

Destroy us.

I’m ashamed for for having to recuse myself from the discussion because of a conflict of interest.


83 posted on 10/02/2008 10:12:04 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

A few hours ago I met with an 84 year old man who is a WWII vet. He told me some good stories about his service in the pacific. It’s a different world now. Not for the better.

He jumped out of the way of a kamikaze pilot.

The biggest problem now for Americans is childhood obesity and how big of a house you can buy with no money down.

Good night.


84 posted on 10/02/2008 10:18:34 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084; freekitty; fortheDeclaration; wmfights; griffin; TBP; supercat; April Lexington
I support it strictly for selfish reasons. Namely, I’m afraid of being po. I tried being po. I’ve researched poverty first hand and I made a decision....I didn’t like it. So I decided I wanted no part of it and worked hard to make money.

I've been on both sides of that research and completely understand what you're saying.

I should be and I am ashamed of myself FWIW.

No it just makes you human. My first reaction was to support this bail out. The great thing about this forum is all the different views get expressed and additional information is presented. Changing your opinion as more information comes to light is not bad it reveals discernment.

85 posted on 10/03/2008 7:23:36 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Eric Blair 2084; supercat
Internal Socialism will do what the Nazis, Japs, USSR couldn’t do to America.

Why more people don't see this is driving me nuts. Freedom to win, freedom to lose have been such positives in our country. These principals are now being replaced with nationalizing loses. The next phase will be what is done to gains, of course it will be in the name of fairness.

86 posted on 10/03/2008 7:34:50 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: wmfights
No it just makes you human. My first reaction was to support this bail out. The great thing about this forum is all the different views get expressed and additional information is presented. Changing your opinion as more information comes to light is not bad it reveals discernment.

Where does he say that he changed his mind?

He is only justifying his cowardice.

Why are you patting him on the head?

87 posted on 10/03/2008 11:39:37 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ('we don't make compromises-we make Marines')
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To: supercat

Yep. Well said.

This is another case where I have to recuse myself from the discussion. There are laws against me commenting on stuff like this.


88 posted on 10/03/2008 7:18:09 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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