Posted on 10/01/2008 9:44:39 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Why am I as a 'mass going' staunchly pro life Catholic, voting for Obama? Of course I disagree with his views on Roe vs Wade, but I think that his policies and programs more comprehensively follow Catholic social teaching than McCain's--and they even result in fewer abortions.
There's a lot of evidence that providing aid and support for women, children and the poor, lowers the number of abortions. Pro lifers can choose to see present results rather than repeating exhortations for the future.
After all, to roll back and change laws in a democracy, the legislators, the courts and the majority of voters have to be convinced, and this process of moral reorientation on abortion can be a slow process. Think of the arguments you have with your friends and family.
In the interim, when immediate overthrow of a flawed law is impossible it is morally permissible, as John Paul II expresses it, to recognize "the art of the possible" and try to "limit the harm done by such a law."
Moreover, Catholic pro life advocates for Obama desperately want to limit the grave moral evils and dangers to life arising from pursuing preemptive wars, defending the use of torture, continuing the death penalty, and flouting of Constitutional and international law. As billions are spent on the destructive Iraq war, the needs of the poor, the ill and the schools are neglected, and the whole economic system falters.
Our Bishops have instructed us in the 2008 document "Faithful Citizenship," to inform our consciences and choose prudently. We must seek the common good as well as avoid evils. Bishops carry out their role of teaching and transmitting the tradition when they state Catholic social teaching in its fullness and nuance as they have here. And yes, if others in public life misrepresent Catholic doctrine, it is the Bishops' right and duty to correct them.
Moreover, in this document the Bishops firmly assert that they seek to inform consciences and "do not intend to tell Catholics for whom or against whom to vote." Yet certain Bishops (we know who they are) appear to be doing their best to coerce the conscientious decisions of their people by punitive uses of sacramental power. To deny Catholics the Eucharist because they have voted in a certain way seems to grievously overstep clerical authority as well as distort Catholic teaching on religious liberty.
While I think Obama is far and away the candidate most completely in agreement with Catholic teaching on peace and justice, I would never want to have McCain's Catholic followers be denied communion because of their votes on preemptive war or embryonic stem cell research.
In fact such non pastoral exercises of clerical power involving worship give scandal. This is imitating Jesus? Christ the Lord showed unfailing charity to all, even his enemies. He welcomes all who seek him.
Jesus teaches, heals, inspires and proclaims in one of my favorite scriptural verses, "Look, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut."(Rev. 3:8)
I thought this was scrappleface for a moment
As a staunch Catholic and Conservative, articles like this make me crazy. Satan knows exactly what he’s doing.
I can only say one thing: “Huh?”
“[Many people are involved in] a disastrous confusion between the poor of the Scripture and the proletariat of Marx.
“In this way they pervert the Christian meaning of the poor, and they transform the fight for the rights of the poor into a class fight within the ideological perspective of the class struggle. For them the Church of the poor signifies the Church of the class ..” - Pope Benedict XVI - Theologies of Liberation http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df84lt.htm
“..an authentic...theology: [is] one that puts:
[1] God and the life of the spirit first,
[2] DIRECT charitable care of others second,
[3] and only then draws consequences for a just social order.”
- Pope Benedict XVI http://ncrcafe.org/node/1091
*
Encyclical of Pope John XXIII, On Establishing Universal Peace In Truth, Justice, Charity, And Liberty, April 11, 1963
“Man’s personal dignity requires besides that he enjoy freedom and be able to make up his own mind when he acts.
In his association with his fellows, therefore, there is every reason why his recognition of rights, observance of duties, and many-sided collaboration with other men, should be primarily a matter of his own personal decision.
Each man should act on his own initiative, conviction, and sense of responsibility, not under the constant pressure of external coercion or enticement.
There is nothing human about a society that is welded together by force.
Far from encouraging, as it should, the attainment of man’s progress and perfection, it is merely an obstacle to his freedom.”
“Hence, a regime which governs solely or mainly by means of threats and intimidation or promises of reward, provides men with no effective incentive to work for the common good.
And even if it did, it would certainly be offensive to the dignity of free and rational human beings.”
“Consequently, laws and decrees passed in contravention of the moral order, and hence of the divine will, can have no binding force in conscience, since ‘it is right to obey God rather than men.’”
C.S. Lewis: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under live robber barons than under omnipotent moral busibodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good, will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
*
America’s Founding Principles
“...dedicated to teaching how history, law, logic, and mathematics prove that the ideas that create America’s freedom and prosperity - America’s Founding Principles - are God’s moral rules found in Judeo-Christian Scripture. A big job, to be sure, but to help you quickly see where we are coming from, we summarize these ideas in the blue boxes below. The white boxes give you examples of where these ideas appear in our founding documents, the writings of the Founding Fathers, and the scholarly writings that influenced our founding. We link you to resources where you can learn more, and invite you to explore our site, especially our Freedom 101 and Project Mainspring links ...” http://www.citizensoldier.org/foundation.html
Am I going mad? I am stuck in an Alice in Wonderland vortex. Everything I believe about economics, politics, religion is at a polar opposite paradigm. Up is down, black is white, bad is good. Sigh.
If you are pro-life and voting for Obama, you're an idiot. I don't want to wait 20 years for another chance.
This is a lousy attempt at rationalization!
The individual does NOT have the latitude to decide other issues are more important than life.
Especially given that the other social remedies cited are NOT the domain of the government. They are there ONLY to buy votes.
These are satanic points in the prolife area as a Priests for Life told us and many others on the air.
Definition 1 Relating to or suggestive of Satan or evil.
Pardon me while I vomit.
“And yes, if others in public life misrepresent Catholic doctrine, it is the Bishops’ right and duty to correct them.”
Bishops? Are you listening to this fool?
This is nothing but a misrepresentation of the Church’s teaching through quotes that only tell one half of the story and take incomplete quotes out of context.
Pope John Paul the Great is rolling over in his grave over the way this guy bastardized his quotes to rationalize the slaughter of 1.5 million babies.
This is the logical result of decades of squishy teaching on the part of the Bishops. Even the staunchest pro-life Bishops today seem to require long convoluted tomes to express what can be expressed clearly with few words.
Pity.
Abortion is murder of the most innocent amongst us.
Exactly.
The political liberals at America & National Catholic Reporter have a religion of their own, but it's not Catholicism.
It is scary, though, the number of people who will blatantly embrace evil and call it truth.
There are many other cases to be made, like banning prayer, banning Christmas, taking God from the money and other government objects, banning the 10 Commandments, etc, but murder of an innocent child should be an easy slam dunk for any believer. The argument of lukewarm, double minded, Christians that justify socialism and moral indifference with the Bible is just as bad as Satan tempting Eve with God's own Words and Satan tempting Jesus with Scripture carefully twisted to change the meaning of God's Word.
“No one who enables abortion is Christian.
Abortion is murder of the most innocent amongst us.”
Yes, but think of all the arguments you’ll have with your family.
Absolutely. Whomever wrote this column is as clueless as can be. Astonishing. There are a lot of misguided voters right now...........
You can go to any church and find one or two that describe to there own teachings!
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