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Why Catholic Pro Lifers will vote for Obama (Can you say "Moral Relativism?" Sure.)
America: The National Catholic Weekly ^ | September 28, 2008 | Sidney Callahan

Posted on 10/01/2008 9:44:39 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Why am I as a 'mass going' staunchly pro life Catholic, voting for Obama? Of course I disagree with his views on Roe vs Wade, but I think that his policies and programs more comprehensively follow Catholic social teaching than McCain's--and they even result in fewer abortions.

There's a lot of evidence that providing aid and support for women, children and the poor, lowers the number of abortions. Pro lifers can choose to see present results rather than repeating exhortations for the future.

After all, to roll back and change laws in a democracy, the legislators, the courts and the majority of voters have to be convinced, and this process of moral reorientation on abortion can be a slow process. Think of the arguments you have with your friends and family.

In the interim, when immediate overthrow of a flawed law is impossible it is morally permissible, as John Paul II expresses it, to recognize "the art of the possible" and try to "limit the harm done by such a law."

Moreover, Catholic pro life advocates for Obama desperately want to limit the grave moral evils and dangers to life arising from pursuing preemptive wars, defending the use of torture, continuing the death penalty, and flouting of Constitutional and international law. As billions are spent on the destructive Iraq war, the needs of the poor, the ill and the schools are neglected, and the whole economic system falters.

Our Bishops have instructed us in the 2008 document "Faithful Citizenship," to inform our consciences and choose prudently. We must seek the common good as well as avoid evils. Bishops carry out their role of teaching and transmitting the tradition when they state Catholic social teaching in its fullness and nuance as they have here. And yes, if others in public life misrepresent Catholic doctrine, it is the Bishops' right and duty to correct them.

Moreover, in this document the Bishops firmly assert that they seek to inform consciences and "do not intend to tell Catholics for whom or against whom to vote." Yet certain Bishops (we know who they are) appear to be doing their best to coerce the conscientious decisions of their people by punitive uses of sacramental power. To deny Catholics the Eucharist because they have voted in a certain way seems to grievously overstep clerical authority as well as distort Catholic teaching on religious liberty.

While I think Obama is far and away the candidate most completely in agreement with Catholic teaching on peace and justice, I would never want to have McCain's Catholic followers be denied communion because of their votes on preemptive war or embryonic stem cell research.

In fact such non pastoral exercises of clerical power involving worship give scandal. This is imitating Jesus? Christ the Lord showed unfailing charity to all, even his enemies. He welcomes all who seek him.

Jesus teaches, heals, inspires and proclaims in one of my favorite scriptural verses, "Look, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut."(Rev. 3:8)


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; abortion; catholic; election; elections; iraq; mccain; obama; prolife
It's like watching a game of Twister.
1 posted on 10/01/2008 9:44:40 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I thought this was scrappleface for a moment


2 posted on 10/01/2008 9:47:11 PM PDT by italianquaker (I have a braclet too but let me check my notes first, what a disgrace)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As a staunch Catholic and Conservative, articles like this make me crazy. Satan knows exactly what he’s doing.


3 posted on 10/01/2008 9:48:37 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I can only say one thing: “Huh?”


4 posted on 10/01/2008 9:50:11 PM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480; Knitting A Conundrum; CT-Freeper; Swordmaker; ...
PING!
5 posted on 10/01/2008 9:50:49 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“[Many people are involved in] a disastrous confusion between the poor of the Scripture and the proletariat of Marx.

“In this way they pervert the Christian meaning of the poor, and they transform the fight for the rights of the poor into a class fight within the ideological perspective of the class struggle. For them the Church of the poor signifies the Church of the class ..” - Pope Benedict XVI - Theologies of Liberation http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df84lt.htm

“..an authentic...theology: [is] one that puts:

[1] God and the life of the spirit first,
[2] DIRECT charitable care of others second,
[3] and only then draws consequences for a just social order.”

- Pope Benedict XVI http://ncrcafe.org/node/1091

*

Encyclical of Pope John XXIII, On Establishing Universal Peace In Truth, Justice, Charity, And Liberty, April 11, 1963

“Man’s personal dignity requires besides that he enjoy freedom and be able to make up his own mind when he acts.

In his association with his fellows, therefore, there is every reason why his recognition of rights, observance of duties, and many-sided collaboration with other men, should be primarily a matter of his own personal decision.

Each man should act on his own initiative, conviction, and sense of responsibility, not under the constant pressure of external coercion or enticement.

There is nothing human about a society that is welded together by force.

Far from encouraging, as it should, the attainment of man’s progress and perfection, it is merely an obstacle to his freedom.”

“Hence, a regime which governs solely or mainly by means of threats and intimidation or promises of reward, provides men with no effective incentive to work for the common good.

And even if it did, it would certainly be offensive to the dignity of free and rational human beings.”

“Consequently, laws and decrees passed in contravention of the moral order, and hence of the divine will, can have no binding force in conscience, since ‘it is right to obey God rather than men.’”

C.S. Lewis: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under live robber barons than under omnipotent moral busibodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good, will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

*
America’s Founding Principles

“...dedicated to teaching how history, law, logic, and mathematics prove that the ideas that create America’s freedom and prosperity - America’s Founding Principles - are God’s moral rules found in Judeo-Christian Scripture. A big job, to be sure, but to help you quickly see where we are coming from, we summarize these ideas in the blue boxes below. The white boxes give you examples of where these ideas appear in our founding documents, the writings of the Founding Fathers, and the scholarly writings that influenced our founding. We link you to resources where you can learn more, and invite you to explore our site, especially our Freedom 101 and Project Mainspring links ...” http://www.citizensoldier.org/foundation.html


6 posted on 10/01/2008 9:52:09 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (2008 = The Year of the Toilet (for 'rats))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Am I going mad? I am stuck in an Alice in Wonderland vortex. Everything I believe about economics, politics, religion is at a polar opposite paradigm. Up is down, black is white, bad is good. Sigh.


7 posted on 10/01/2008 9:52:58 PM PDT by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here's the art of the possible. John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsberg may retire. SCOTUS is 5-4. Do the math.

If you are pro-life and voting for Obama, you're an idiot. I don't want to wait 20 years for another chance.

8 posted on 10/01/2008 9:53:21 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (Palin in 08)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is a lousy attempt at rationalization!

The individual does NOT have the latitude to decide other issues are more important than life.

Especially given that the other social remedies cited are NOT the domain of the government. They are there ONLY to buy votes.


9 posted on 10/01/2008 10:01:12 PM PDT by G Larry ("Disgust" is a valid expression!-Vote Family Values!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

These are satanic points in the prolife area as a Priests for Life told us and many others on the air.
Definition 1 Relating to or suggestive of Satan or evil.


10 posted on 10/01/2008 10:02:14 PM PDT by fatima (Put your lipstick on girls and go vote.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Pardon me while I vomit.


11 posted on 10/01/2008 10:02:17 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“And yes, if others in public life misrepresent Catholic doctrine, it is the Bishops’ right and duty to correct them.”

Bishops? Are you listening to this fool?

This is nothing but a misrepresentation of the Church’s teaching through quotes that only tell one half of the story and take incomplete quotes out of context.

Pope John Paul the Great is rolling over in his grave over the way this guy bastardized his quotes to rationalize the slaughter of 1.5 million babies.


12 posted on 10/01/2008 10:07:02 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is the logical result of decades of squishy teaching on the part of the Bishops. Even the staunchest pro-life Bishops today seem to require long convoluted tomes to express what can be expressed clearly with few words.

Pity.


13 posted on 10/01/2008 10:08:30 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (The Democrats drove our financial system into a ditch.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; xsmommy; NeoCaveman
Whoa! another social justice Catholic doomed....there really is no talking to these moonbats! what a convoluted bunch of hooey.
14 posted on 10/01/2008 10:14:13 PM PDT by tioga (My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. Luke 1:47)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
No one who enables abortion is Christian.

Abortion is murder of the most innocent amongst us.

15 posted on 10/01/2008 10:16:25 PM PDT by TheFourthMagi
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To: diamond6
Satan knows exactly what he’s doing.

Exactly.

The political liberals at America & National Catholic Reporter have a religion of their own, but it's not Catholicism.

It is scary, though, the number of people who will blatantly embrace evil and call it truth.

16 posted on 10/01/2008 10:27:16 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (This gun for hire)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
You can claim Christ or be a Democrat, but you can't claim both. Between abortion and homosexual marriage, there is NO wiggle room. It cannot be argued or debated with any authority that the Democrat platform is consistent with Christianity.

There are many other cases to be made, like banning prayer, banning Christmas, taking God from the money and other government objects, banning the 10 Commandments, etc, but murder of an innocent child should be an easy slam dunk for any believer. The argument of lukewarm, double minded, Christians that justify socialism and moral indifference with the Bible is just as bad as Satan tempting Eve with God's own Words and Satan tempting Jesus with Scripture carefully twisted to change the meaning of God's Word.

17 posted on 10/01/2008 10:27:37 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: TheFourthMagi

“No one who enables abortion is Christian.
Abortion is murder of the most innocent amongst us.”

Yes, but think of all the arguments you’ll have with your family.


18 posted on 10/01/2008 10:28:40 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: TheFourthMagi
"No one who enables abortion is Christian. Abortion is murder of the most innocent amongst us."

Absolutely. Whomever wrote this column is as clueless as can be. Astonishing. There are a lot of misguided voters right now...........

19 posted on 10/01/2008 10:30:58 PM PDT by NoRedTape
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To: NoRedTape

You can go to any church and find one or two that describe to there own teachings!


20 posted on 10/01/2008 10:34:43 PM PDT by tallyhoe
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To: Darren McCarty

kidding aren’t you?..hoping that so called conservatives will want to get conservative Supreme court justices in there is folly......they’re “mad” about the bailout so they are going to stomp their feet and elect a Rat congress and a rat prez......


21 posted on 10/01/2008 10:39:11 PM PDT by cherry
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
News flash for Sidney - “you ain't no Catholic”.A so called Catholic or a Conservative voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Col.Sanders or an Israeli voting for Achmideniwackjob.
22 posted on 10/01/2008 10:40:46 PM PDT by Apercu ("A man's character is his fate" - Heraclitus)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Delusion...by those who are not aware that they are under its spell. Not only is the abortion issue on Obama such a hot topic, how can she defend his communist buddy ties, his immoral stand on every other issue...? She is just explaining away why she always was going to vote for him...she’s a democrat. She approves of leftist ideology.


23 posted on 10/01/2008 10:56:23 PM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is one Catholic, Pro-Lifer who never will vote Democrat, for many, many reasons, but no the least of which is the unflagging support for the murder fo unborn children.


24 posted on 10/01/2008 10:57:43 PM PDT by truemiester ((If the U.S. should fail, a veil of darkness will come over the Earth for a thousand years))
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To: diamond6

Any Catholic who votes for Obama should be excommunicated.


25 posted on 10/01/2008 11:01:08 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.")
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To: Shery
The author:

Sidney Callahan, Ph.D., holds the McKeever Chair in Moral Theology at St. John's University, Queens, New York. She is a columnist for Commonweal Magazine and a board member or consultant for numerous secular and Catholic organizations that concern ethics and public life including the Notre Dame Center for Ethics and Culture, the Catholic Common Ground Initiative, and the Hastings Center. She is the author of many books including In Good Conscience: Reason and Emotion in Moral Decision Making and Abortion: Understanding Differences (co-edited with Daniel Callahan).

She's also a women priest advocate.

http://www.womenpriests.org/teaching/callahan.asp

26 posted on 10/01/2008 11:01:59 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (This gun for hire)
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To: DennisR; 2ndDivisionVet

I echo your “huh?” I can’t possibly fathom how a consistently pro-life person like McCain can’t be preferred over Obama on that issue. By the way, the author didn’t say anything about Obama’s acceptance of infanticide. I refer to the case where an infant survived an abortion and was allowed to die, which didn’t disturb him. I think someone in the Church should instruct the author (as they did Biden and Pelosi) on the church’s teaching - even those who write in church publications.


27 posted on 10/01/2008 11:02:21 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
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To: JohnnyZ

Speaking of embracing evil... have you seen the Obama youth sing-along?

It sends shivers down my spine everytime I see it.


28 posted on 10/01/2008 11:03:09 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What does the Bible say about stealing from others to do your “good works”?

Fool.


29 posted on 10/01/2008 11:03:09 PM PDT by DB
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Can anyone say hypocrite ? She sounds exactly like my sister - thought she wrote it for a moment


30 posted on 10/01/2008 11:10:28 PM PDT by TheCipher
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I read the comments. Fortunately the great majority of the them are in agreement with our views that the author is an idiot and a hypocrite. Unfortunately there were some who were sympatico with this moonbat and bought this kool-aid logic.


31 posted on 10/02/2008 12:35:37 AM PDT by princeofdarkness (Ronald Reagan- "Trust But Verify" MSM- "Report, Lie, Then Crucify")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Let's, now: 40,000 abortions per year, as opposed to a total, over six and a half years, of fewer than 4,000 U.S. casualties in Iraq. Not to mention tens of thousands of Iraqis (do they count, Mr. Callahan?) saved from rape, torture, and murder at the hands of the execrable Husseins.

The "social teaching" Callahan cites isn't Catholic -- it's pure unadulterated Marxism.

32 posted on 10/02/2008 1:58:21 AM PDT by Tenniel2 ("Socialism is the grandiose rationalization of petty resentments" -- von Mises)
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To: diamond6

This is what the Bible refers to in Revelation as “The Apostacy” - churches who have fallen away.


33 posted on 10/02/2008 2:50:01 AM PDT by Florida native
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hey Sidney....I KNOW you are a FRAUD because MASS should LAWAYS be CAPITALIZED. You show your CONTEMPT and dis-respect when you print it as mass......it’s MASS.


34 posted on 10/02/2008 3:48:14 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ann Archy

uh ALWAYS......Mass....Sidney....MASS....show some respect.


35 posted on 10/02/2008 3:51:20 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: fatima; tioga

i do believe it is Satan behind these supposed prolife Catholics who are promoting Obama. it is evil, there is no way around it.


36 posted on 10/02/2008 3:58:22 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Darren McCarty; narses; ELS; cpforlife.org; Salvation; wagglebee; Jim Robinson; Caleb1411; rhema; ..
In twenty years, under democrat control, America could slaughter another 20,000,000 of her alive unborn children. The time is NOW to stop this evil. ... Yes, evil!

The kerfuffle of Obama defending the killing of alive just born premature children who survive abortion attempt is being down played by careful misdirection. The truth of what Illinois Senator Obama was protecting is far more demonic.

In the news of late is one Gianna Jessen, in her thirties now, survivor of a saline scalding abortion hired by her mother to attempt, in order to kill Gianna in her mother's womb then deliver her scalded and burned. Had the abortionist succeeded, the delivered corpse would have been 'less fit' for fetal tissue harvesting. But Gianna's case occurred at a time when the fetal tissue industry was off the radar, though we know it was around because fetal tissues were used in the development of vaccines in use then.

What Senator Obama was seeking to protect was the increasing in popularity form of killing the alive unborn via forced premature birth, then discarding the alive, struggling child to die unattended, alone, to produce more 'pristine' fetal tissues for harvesting by the then (in the nineties) billion dollar tissue industry. The thing Obama was protecting is so evil, it defies credulity. And yet, that method of killing the unborn was becoming a popular way to avoid killing the children in utero, and to delivering more usable fetal tissues for dissection and shipping.

That is the hideous truth of the evil Barack Obama was seeking to protect with his ardent Illinois Senate work to block born alive infant protection bills. As a constitutional law student, he knew the treatment of alive just born preemies didn't endanger Roe v Wade ... he was purposely protecting the killing-by-neglect of born alive infants!

In typical deceitful democrat style, Barack Obama offered as his excuse for this embrace of evil the tired mantra of protecting a woman's right to choose. And the current media fail miserably to call him on even that, much less expose the true depth of the evil he was seeking to protect.

Ask yourself, Catholic brethren, If Senator Barack Obama actually believed he was protecting a woman's right to choose, wasn't he in fact then trying to protect some right he perceived for women to kill alive, born children? Wasn't he in fact seeking to protect infanticide? Of course he was! That is the actual conclusion, but the sycophantic media will not draw public attention to it, so Catholic and Protestant Christians are misdirected and end up embracing a man so twisted that he would defend infanticide for his own political empowerment.

If evil was freshly painted, Barack Obama would have paint on the front and arms of his suit where he has embraced it.

37 posted on 10/02/2008 7:29:11 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Alouette; cherry; GWMcClintock

ping


38 posted on 10/02/2008 7:49:44 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here's the comment I tried to post on there. I suspect they've closed the posting because the article was getting hammered.

Obama called babies "a punishment". He voted against protecting the victims of botched abortions. He voted against banning partial birth abortions.

By contrast, John McCain has a vastly better record on life issues. While not perfect, he has been staunchly pro-life on the subject of abortion and will likely appoint judges to the Supreme Court who will vote to overturn the disgraceful travesty known as Roe v. Wade.

Any Catholic voting for Obama knowing all this is committing a mortal sin. Worse, a Catholic, like the author of this piece, who tries to convince others to vote for pro-abortion Obama, is compounding his sin.

In good faith, if you truly are a Catholic, I would ask you to withdraw this article immediately. You are leading others into sin.
39 posted on 10/02/2008 7:55:36 AM PDT by Antoninus (If you're bashing McCain/Palin at this point, you're working for Obama.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here's the author in all her glory. BA from Bryn Mawr (should tell you all you need to know) and now and advisor to the Notre Dame Centre for Ethics and Culture.

picture of Sidney Callahan

Sidney Callahan

Sidney Callahan, Ph.D., is an author, lecturer, college professor, and licensed psychologist. In 2002-2003, she held the Paul J. McKeever Chair of Moral Theology, St. John's University, Queens, NY and she was a Professor of Psychology with Tenure at Mercy College from 1980-1997. She received her B.A. in English from Bryn Mawr College, her M.A. in Psychology from Sarah Lawrence College and a Ph.D. in Social and Personality Psychology from the City of New York. Callahan has written many articles, books, and columns devoted to religious, psychological, and ethical questions. She is author of In Good Conscience: Reason and Emotion in Moral Decision Making (San Francisco: Harper San Francisco, 1991); With All Our Heart and Mind: The Spiritual Works of Mercy in a Psychological Age (New York: Crossroads/Continuum, 1988 [Winner of Christopher Award, 1988]); Abortion: Understanding Differences, Co-edited with Daniel Callahan (New York: Plenum Press, 1984); and Parenting: Principles and Politics of Parenthood (New York: Doubleday, 1973).

Callahan was an invited speaker for our "Culture of Death," "Culture of Life" and "From Death to Life" conferences.

-------------------------------

Allowing individuals like this to be advisors on the subject of Ethics and Culture in Catholic institutions is precisely why Catholics are so screwed up today. She needs to be fired immediately. Let her peddle her baby-killing mumbo-jumbo at some secular institution.

40 posted on 10/02/2008 8:03:11 AM PDT by Antoninus (If you're bashing McCain/Palin at this point, you're working for Obama.)
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To: diamond6
This article is written by the modern day version of Ananias and Saphira ... she is serving satan while pretending to be serving God through the Catholic institution.

Sidney Callahan is offering to Catholics the ancient Stanic bargain ... you can have your hearts desire so long as you sell your soul for it. The only consolation Catholics following her lead through to the gates of Hell have is that this demonspawn will be more tormented because she has led others to serve her chosen god, Satan.

I would ask God to have meercy upon her, but so long as she continues to serve hellish aims I can only ask that God take her out of the way just as His SPirit took Ananias and SAphira out of the way in the infant Church. ... And during her service to evil she is likely receiving the Host at Mass. Shame

41 posted on 10/02/2008 11:10:50 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Antoninus
And just to nail this woman for what she is, here's a blatant twisting of an issue to fashion a lie she believes is persuasive:

"... I would never want to have McCain's Catholic followers be denied communion because of their votes on preemptive war or embryonic stem cell research." My Catholic friends, ask yourself what Catholic Priest would deny communion to a Christian who opposes the killing for body parts of embryonic age humans? This Sidney Callahan is twisting a Life issue to appear it is wrong to oppose killing human beings at embryo age. This woman is allow Satan to speak thorugh her. Demonic

42 posted on 10/02/2008 11:52:11 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
If evil was freshly painted, Barack Obama would have paint on the front and arms of his suit where he has embraced it.

MHG you know how much I dislike contradicting you, however, I feel I must point out that if you embrace Evil for long enough and do not repent you become Evil.

While I am loathe to pronounce judgment on any man, if Barrack Hussein Obama does not repent end turn from the Evil which he has embraced (and not let go of) he will be found to be Evil by him who is worthy to judge.

I hope sincerely for his sake that he repents of the Evil practice of infanticide which he has embraced.

More importantly, I hope for America's sake that this country born of God's will does not embrace such a man and offer him it's highest office for he may even supersede Clinton in disgracing that office.
43 posted on 10/02/2008 3:22:00 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

That’s not a contradiction, brother. We are in agreement.


44 posted on 10/02/2008 3:24:28 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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