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Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes
Israel E-news ^ | 10/12/08 | Tamar Yonah

Posted on 10/12/2008 6:05:35 PM PDT by pissant

Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama.

Many U.S. voters are suspicious of the Democratic candidate's past, and Berg filed a lawsuit to force Barack Hussein Obama to produce a certified copy of his original birth certificate to prove that he can run for the office of President of the United States. However, he is being fought. The DNC On Sept. 24 filed a motion to dismiss the Berg action. Why? What is there to hide? Why not produce the original birth certificate and be done with all the suspicions against Barack Hussein Obama?

A few months back, a birth certificate WAS posted on the internet which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Yet some say this birth certificate is a forgery and again, his grandmother st

(Excerpt) Read more at israelenews.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: antichrist; birthcertificate; certifigate; itstheeconomystupid; larrysinclairslover; obama; obamafamily; truthermadness
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To: BIGLOOK
There is no valid birth certificate.

Praise be to God, somebody gets it!

301 posted on 10/13/2008 4:22:04 AM PDT by Polarik ("The Greater Evil")
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To: chippewaman

“Should McCain bring this up during the debate? Just a thought there.”

No, to the average American who hasn’t heard about this it would appear desperate. Better to let one of us do it.


302 posted on 10/13/2008 4:23:25 AM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama! - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: Maximum Leader
Actually, even if he was born in Kenya, he’s still a US citizen.

Without a DNA test, how do we know who his mother really was? There are no doctors, PA's, nurses, or any other medical personnel who remember anything about delivering Ann's baby, let alone a pregnant Ann Dunham.

303 posted on 10/13/2008 4:25:55 AM PDT by Polarik ("The Greater Evil")
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To: AHerald

A bit late to the thread, but...

It can’t be presumed that birth information listed in the Honolulu paper only comes from the hospitals. Many home births are listed as well; the info can be placed by anyone provided they pay a fee. Same as obits and wedding announcements.


304 posted on 10/13/2008 5:04:34 AM PDT by melissa_in_ga (McCain-Palin 2008 - A landslide?)
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To: pissant

bttt


305 posted on 10/13/2008 5:07:14 AM PDT by petercooper (IQ tests for all voters!)
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To: RasterMaster

bttt


306 posted on 10/13/2008 5:31:21 AM PDT by petercooper (IQ tests for all voters!)
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To: gimme1ibertee

Actually, it would probably mean a President Biden.


307 posted on 10/13/2008 5:47:19 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Gemsbok

Why is it recorded in so many places that ‘his sister Maya says he was born in the Honoluolu hospital.’...

Does anyone have a link to a video of Obama in Hawaii saying that he was born in a hospital just down the street in Hawaii?

I seem to remember that phrase.

Him born in Kenya with all the legal arguing is one thing, but lying directly to the American people would make a good ad when he is forced to admit he wasn’t, showing both statements on video.


308 posted on 10/13/2008 5:53:41 AM PDT by Hang'emAll (WE WILL NOT DISARM!!!)
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To: AHerald

And the inescapable fact is that if the birth notice in the Hawaii paper is legit then Obama was indeed born in Hawaii as he claims. To believe otherwise is to align oneself with the and 9-11 truthers (like Berg).

Others have attempted to look up birth notice in Hawaii paper archives....but, archives only go back to early 90’s, so where did tne notice originally appear. Is that bogus too, like the COLB’s posted by bho.


309 posted on 10/13/2008 6:19:14 AM PDT by mouse1 (Have you donated to Free Republic today??)
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To: pissant
As much as I would like to think this has any merit. It doesn't.
Article 2, Section 1: No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html :
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Unless his mother had renounced her citizenship before B. Hussein Obama was born, it really has no bearing whatsoever on whether or now he was born in Hawaii, Indonesia or Kenya. His mother was a US citizen, and therefore he was US citizen upon birth.

I only wish this were all true.... I fear for our nation if B. Hussein Obama, San-Fran-Nan and “Dingy-Harry” Reid are left to lead this country....

310 posted on 10/13/2008 6:43:14 AM PDT by 80sReaganite (Sarah Palin - A true feminist!)
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To: pissant

As much as I would like to think this has any merit. It doesn’t.
Article 2, Section 1: No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html :
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Unless his mother had renounced her citizenship before B. Hussein Obama was born, it really has no bearing whatsoever on whether or now he was born in Hawaii, Indonesia or Kenya. His mother was a US citizen, and therefore he was US citizen upon birth.

I only wish this were all true.... I fear for our nation if B. Hussein Obama, San-Fran-Nan and “Dingy-Harry” Reid are left to lead this country....


311 posted on 10/13/2008 6:44:56 AM PDT by 80sReaganite (Sarah Palin - A true feminist!)
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To: pissant
Even if this is true, unless Obama's mother had relinquished her U.S. citizenship, wouldn't he still be considered a citizen?

My niece and nephew were born in Japan, and they had dual citizenship until they were 18. At that point, they had to make a decision which country they wanted to be a citizen of.

312 posted on 10/13/2008 7:23:16 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Gemsbok

Maybe that isn’t the half sister they are talking about?


313 posted on 10/13/2008 7:28:58 AM PDT by Danae (Read my Lipstick: I AM Sarah Palin)
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To: pissant

Curious that at this very time the Clintons have, really for the first time, decided to emit praise of Obama and to attack McCain and the Republicans...

If Obama were to be found inelgible for the POTUS nomination, Hillary would be the logical, and proven, replacement on the ticket - and her and her husband’s present, sudden activity would make-up to the Party for that lacking to this point - and also put them back in the eyes of the public as this all enfolds.

In fact, Hillary and Bill could be behind much of this from the get-go.


314 posted on 10/13/2008 7:54:21 AM PDT by mtntop3
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To: manc

Does not the U.S. Government have in place a confirmation/verification process to seek the office of the potus?
If so...why not the verification of birth certificate. If not...why not?


315 posted on 10/13/2008 8:30:23 AM PDT by maineman
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To: CharlotteVRWC; Fred Nerks
WOW!

If this is true, lets get it on Fox News!

Phil Berg should be able to get this into evidence.

How is it that a born in Kenya Pol is running for president and No One Knew???

Some one at FEC has been really traitorous to our nation, bribed, or toatally partisan, or all three.

Is the USA now a banana Republic?

Lets do bona fides on these documents.

316 posted on 10/13/2008 8:34:52 AM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, ( member NRA)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
reparations bill in Congress.

The only saving grace about the bill is that no one--even the government--will have any money to actually make a payment.

317 posted on 10/13/2008 8:43:20 AM PDT by jammer
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To: jtal
What am I missing here?

There is a distinct difference under the law between the citizenship status of a child born to two American citizen parents overseas, on the one hand, and a child born to one American citizen parent and one alien parent overseas, on the other hand. BO falls into the second category. According to the law in effect at the time of BO's birth, his mother at the time was not old enough for her child born abroad to qualify at birth as an American citizen.

318 posted on 10/13/2008 8:47:37 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: driftdiver
So was he born in Hawaii or born in Kenya?

From what I have seen on FR on another thread, bona fide copies of BO's Kenyan birth certificate do exist and have been passed on to at least three Americans who currently have them in their possession. Furthermore, there is no birth certificate for BO on file in Hawaii.

If this is true - and there is no good reason to suppose it isn't - the answer to your question is obvious: He was born in Kenya, and therefore is constitutionally ineligible to be President, just as Philip Berg claims in his suit!

319 posted on 10/13/2008 8:58:37 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: atomicweeder

It won’t matter even if he admits he was born in Kenya. His “followers” would follow him anywhere. And there would be lawyers parsing the constitution...it would take years to get a court ruling that would stick. By then the democrats would have been in power long enough to change the constitution.


320 posted on 10/13/2008 9:12:07 AM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Sandy

Try reading what I wrote. Obama only had one US citizen parent, his mother,his father was NOT a US citizen. In order for her children to be born US citizens when born out of the country, according to the law then in effect,and it is essentially the same now, she had to be resident in this country 10 years from the age of 16(or it might have been 14), she gave birth to Obama at age 18, therefore she did not meet the criteria of having her child born a US citizen if he was born out of the country. Therefore, if he was born in Kenya he is NOT a US citizen, Natural or otherwise.


321 posted on 10/13/2008 9:15:02 AM PDT by calex59
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To: Cincinna

What is the story on the white grandmother?


322 posted on 10/13/2008 9:34:02 AM PDT by Hanna548
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To: mouse1

The story goes that someone went to the library to look in the newspaper archives for the birth announcement and just by chance the librarian had it in a folder on her desk because someone else had been in previously with the same intention in mind and she hadn’t gotten around to filing it away again.


323 posted on 10/13/2008 10:07:38 AM PDT by Chief Engineer
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To: TommyDale
Sad when an Israeli news source has to report this.

They are pretty late!

The last couple weeks it has been posted here on several vanities/posts!!

Go Freepers, keep the iron hot by posting this criminal coup of infiltrating Islamic Jihadi into our White House!!!

324 posted on 10/13/2008 10:11:30 AM PDT by danamco
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To: Hanna548

The white grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who essentially raised him still lives in the same apartment she has lived in for the past 40 years. She had one tightly controlled 30 minute interview with David Mendell in 2004 after Obama’s speech at the Dem Convention. She will be 86 on the 26th of this month and has severe osteoporosis and had a corneal transplant this past summer. When she is contacted by journalists she responds she is not giving interviews as she is unwell. Perhaps the campaign didn’t like it when in the above mentioned interview she said she didn’t trust what foreigners told her and that Obama Sr. was “straaaaaaaange” with an emphasis on the “a”.


325 posted on 10/13/2008 10:14:19 AM PDT by Chief Engineer
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To: RasterMaster
Osama HUSSEIN Obama is not a naturalized citizen, he is Kenyan-born, adopted by an Indonesian and never renounced his citizenship

There is, at best, an unsubstantiated claim that Obama's Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya. Major claims like that require major proof- you may want to believe that he was born in Kenya, but there is simply not enough evidence of that, especially in light of the fact of his widely-circulated Hawaian birth certificate.

even if he was born in Hawaii as he claims (which I don’t believe), he’s at best a DUAL citizen and is thereby disqualified from running for President.

Dual citizienship is not a Constitutional bar to the Presidency. My son is, from birth, a citizen of the US, Canada and Serbia (and maybe Denmark). He is Constitutionally qualified to be President.

326 posted on 10/13/2008 10:16:51 AM PDT by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: Eroteme
Natural-born means born on US soil. US military bases and zones overseas are also considered US soil. Parents can confer citizenship to a child born overseas, but not the natural-born part. That's a function of geography. So my understanding of it is, it wouldn't matter if both parents were US citizens. If he was born in Kenya, he would not be a natural born citizen.

That is incorrect. Natural-born citizen means a citizen from birth, rather than through naturalization. As early as 1790, Congress passed a law clarifying that a child born to American citizens overseas is a natural born citizen. There are some twists that come in when a child is born overseas and only one of his parents is a citizen, but that is jus a question of whether or not a kid is a citizen at birth. That is, there is no such category of American who was a citizen at birth but does not qualify as a natural born citizen.

327 posted on 10/13/2008 10:23:49 AM PDT by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: Red Steel
You can be born a US citizen overseas, but you may not meet the requirement(s) of being a natural born US citizen according to the law. Anne Dunham did not meet the law requirement that was in effect in 1961 for her son Barack to be considered a 'natural born citizen' because she was still considered a minor. Dunham had to live 10 continuous years inside the United States when her baby was born, and 5 of those years had to be over the age of 21.

Do you have a citation for that being the law? I keep looking at the USC and the INA and can't find that language anywhere.

328 posted on 10/13/2008 10:28:38 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Frantzie
His hippie mom supposedly tried to get on a plane to get back to HI so the Manchurian candidate could be born in the USA but the airline would not left her fly pregnant.

I've got to wonder here ... what difference did it make to her where she had her child? I mean, why would she have tried to get back to the U.S. in her condition? Am I to believe that she had some kind of prescience, knew her baby boy would someday wish to be president?? Or is there some other reason given? It just strikes me as odd.

329 posted on 10/13/2008 10:31:25 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: 80sReaganite

That is arguable. And that argument has been made here multiple times. What is inarguable, is that a birth in Kenya or some other “unusual” circumstances regarding his birth would expose Obama for creating the forged COLB on his website now. Forging official records to gain the presidency? He will lose his Senate seat also.


330 posted on 10/13/2008 10:43:00 AM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: AHerald; dalebert
Yes, dalebert, of course you're right. But there's such a thing as commonsense. And commonsense tells us that a contemporaneous notice in the paper in August of 1961 is more likely than not to represent the truth: The Obamas of Hawaii had a boy on August 4.

For this whole born-in Kenya thing to work, here's how it would have had to come together:

Against all sense, Obama's 9-month pregnant, teenage mother flew halfway around the world to Kenya (a very difficult flight even today, never mind 1961) for some inexplicable reason. Then, a couple of days after the birth, she flew all the way back again, with a newborn, and they came back quickly enough that none of her friends figured out that Barrack was born in Kenya (ask any mother how likely she would have been to take such a trip a couple of days after giving birth). At the same time, her mother ran a birth announcement in the local papers because, with a daughter halfway around the world with a newborn, this was somehow on her priorities list.

His mother was able to bring the kid back into the US with no passport or any other identification for him and subsequently obtain a Hawaii birth certificate, somehow.

Then, for the next 40+ years, everyone with knowledge of this caper kept their mouths shut on the off chance that Barrack might some day run for President.

Does this story really sound within the realm of possibility to anyone?

331 posted on 10/13/2008 10:44:45 AM PDT by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: RangerM
Obama has enough against him already; do we really need this?

"No. I know Obama. He is a decent family man and would make a fine president. There is no reason to be afraid of him as president". John McCain

332 posted on 10/13/2008 10:48:51 AM PDT by E=MC2
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To: Citizen Blade

He has a Hawaiian Birth Certificate? WOW. That is breaking news. Can you give us a link and tell Phillip Berg so he will call off his lawsuit?


333 posted on 10/13/2008 10:50:39 AM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: pissant
He has a Hawaiian Birth Certificate? WOW. That is breaking news. Can you give us a link and tell Phillip Berg so he will call off his lawsuit?

We've all seen the copy posted on Obama's website. You may not want to believe that it is legit, but until you come up with some credible evidence (other than the fact that scanning something and turning it into a PDF creates imperfections in the image) that it is somehow illegitimate or a forgery, you're just going to keep butting your head up against a wall.

And I wouldn't hitch my train to the Berg wagon. I've read some of the legal documents he has filed and they are embarrassingly bad.

334 posted on 10/13/2008 10:55:31 AM PDT by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: MozarkDawg

Dealing with the INS is a headache. To be honest it is easier to stay in the country as an illegal alien and get amnesty later than go thru all the paperwork and fees involved in doing it properly.

I can seriously understand why she would have wanted to have him listed as born in the U.S. even if overseas.

To be honest if my wife and I were to adopt a newborn overseas, we would probably be at the hospital during birth and have our names put on the paper instead of dealing with BCIS (new name for INS), and it would have nothing to do with a future presidential run.

As for the birth announcement, could that not have been placed by his grandmother?


335 posted on 10/13/2008 10:55:48 AM PDT by JosephW (Mohammad Lied, People die!)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
JOHN MCCAIN & CO - ARE YOU LISTENING ???


336 posted on 10/13/2008 11:07:52 AM PDT by itsahoot (We will have world government. The only question is whether by conquest or consent.)
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To: JosephW

I appreciate the post, can see your point. I would ask you, though, that while yes indeedy, bureaucratic red-tape, the INS is a nightmare today, was it such back in 1961, more importantly, would she really have been thinking that at her age??


337 posted on 10/13/2008 11:07:55 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: Citizen Blade

I’m not hitching my wagon to anything. Never do.

But just because those purveyors of wisdom in the MSM decide this is not a story, doesn’t mean that it isn’t.

Do you seriously think if there was a lawsuit against Palin charging that her COLB was fraudulent (and released to Free Republic first, not the media; and swapped out on her own website for a low resolution version after folks started sniffing around; and who mysteriously decided to use a “Fact Check” organization with a sordid history of distortion for the GOP cause; and whose Grandma in Canada is on record claiming the birth was in Canada; and who adamantly refuses to produce a copy of here original birth certificate, etc, etc) that the MSM would simply decide it is meaningless?


338 posted on 10/13/2008 11:14:07 AM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: PhiKapMom
His mother was not old enough to give him citizenship according to the Constitution.

Not exactly. His mother was not old enough (at the time of his birth) to give him citizenship at birth according to the relevant statue in effect at the time.

339 posted on 10/13/2008 11:15:53 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: pissant
Do you seriously think if there was a lawsuit against Palin charging that her COLB was fraudulent (and released to Free Republic first, not the media; and swapped out on her own website for a low resolution version after folks started sniffing around; and who mysteriously decided to use a “Fact Check” organization with a sordid history of distortion for the GOP cause; and whose Grandma in Canada is on record claiming the birth was in Canada; and who adamantly refuses to produce a copy of here original birth certificate, etc, etc) that the MSM would simply decide it is meaningless?

Of course not. The media is in love with Obama and is in no way objective on this issue. But that does not change that the born-in-Kenya narrative is based on no real credible evidence. You are as guilty as the MSM in your failure to be objective on this issue- you want Obama to be ineligible for the Presidency, so you are willing to accept any evidence to that effect, no matter how thin, while waving aside any evidence to the contrary.

340 posted on 10/13/2008 11:18:13 AM PDT by Citizen Blade (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: PhiKapMom

What do you mean by “according to the Constitution”?


341 posted on 10/13/2008 11:18:16 AM PDT by bvw
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To: justiceseeker93
According to the law in effect at the time of BO's birth, his mother at the time was not old enough for her child born abroad to qualify at birth as an American citizen.

To what extent, if at all, is the Constitution bound by laws passed much later, by Congress? Not much, I'd think. Specially a law, like this, that does not make sense at all. (What possible reason would there be for saying that the child of a mother who was a native-born citizen, with no ties to any other country, and who had never resided in another country, would not be a citizen simply because the mother was young.)
342 posted on 10/13/2008 11:19:11 AM PDT by Mariebl
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To: Citizen Blade

I’m not “accepting” it. I’m trying to keep it in the public eye, here on FR and elsewhere. There are huge problems with Obama’s narrative, at his birth, as well as most of the rest of his pathetic career..

At a MINIMUM, he must prove he is a natural born citizen of this country to be POTUS. McCain released his Birth Certificate when the entire MSM was running articles pondering the legality of his Panama birth. No fuss, no complaining. McCain could have released a modern COLB to FR if he wanted to do it that way, and invited Newsbusters to vouch for it. Instead, he did what a normal human being would do.


343 posted on 10/13/2008 11:25:14 AM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: calex59
she had to be resident in this country 10 years from the age of 16(or it might have been 14

I found it. Here, from the 1952 Act, 66 Stat. 236:

[emphasis mine]

a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years...

source
344 posted on 10/13/2008 11:26:46 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: pissant
Enjoy

Click to enlarge.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

345 posted on 10/13/2008 11:29:02 AM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: MozarkDawg

Whether or not she would have thought of it I don’t know, but her mom probably would, and so would people like “Frank”.

As to the INS being a headache, my parents had to use a lawyer to bring in 3 kids adopted from australia while my dad was in the U.S. Navy. It was definitely a headache then as well (they used to do their job)


346 posted on 10/13/2008 11:29:47 AM PDT by JosephW (Mohammad Lied, People die!)
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To: Sandy
I found it. Here, from the 1952 Act, 66 Stat. 236:

I assume that the purpose was to not give automatic citizenship to the child of a non-citizen and a citizen-in-name-only. Does anyone seriously think that they actually wanted to make sure that the child of a young mother did not become an automatic citizen?

Yes, I'm perfectly aware that it's the wording of the law that matters, not the intent. But.... the Supreme Court might be thinking about the intent, right?
347 posted on 10/13/2008 11:35:35 AM PDT by Mariebl
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To: JosephW

Thanks again, you help my thinking.


348 posted on 10/13/2008 11:35:51 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: CommieCutter
GWB has been a terrible president. Sorry flame me!

He has practically guaranteed the destruction of Israel as we know it. The big four have decided that all offers that Israel has ever made are binding on Israel, but none of the offers made by Palestine, are binding. Cool huh!

349 posted on 10/13/2008 11:36:49 AM PDT by itsahoot (We will have world government. The only question is whether by conquest or consent.)
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To: 80sReaganite
it really has no bearing whatsoever on whether or now he was born in Hawaii, Indonesia or Kenya. His mother was a US citizen, and therefore he was US citizen upon birth.

If he wasn't born here, his mom needed to be 19 when he was born. She was about 4 months short of that.

350 posted on 10/13/2008 11:38:40 AM PDT by Sandy
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