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Was Obama really baptized? No.
www.goldtalk.com ^

Posted on 10/22/2008 5:18:06 AM PDT by dennisw

Read this thread carefully

Read what the Sun-Times reporter has to say about Obama's "conversion" without any baptism. Being he was a Muslim when young he needs a baptism not a mere profession of faith and a self serving one in my opinion


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: baptism; baptized; christian; obama

1 posted on 10/22/2008 5:18:06 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: dennisw
Read this thread carefully

Read what the Sun-Times reporter has to say about Obama's "conversion" without any baptism. Being he was a Muslim when young he needs a baptism not a mere profession of faith and a self serving one in my opinion
Nobody, except Obama knows if his conversion to Christianity is real or not. Although some reports and even Obama have referred to a "baptism", there doesn't appear to be any record of a baptism.

Chicago-based journalist, broadcaster and critic Andy Martin, when asked about Obama's baptism, wrote, "I have never been able to obtain any evidence that he was baptized, although I asked for those records."

It seems that Obama's conversion occurred when he answered one of Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright's altar calls by walking down the aisle of Trinity Church to make a formal commitment of his faith.

Cathleen Falsani, religion columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times, writes, "He (Obama) described his conversion experience in his mid-20s, how he walked the aisle at Trinity United Church of Christ one Sunday in a public affirmation of his private change of heart."

"I came to Christianity through the black church tradition where the line between evangelical and non-evangelical is completely blurred. Nobody knows exactly what it means."

"Does it mean that you feel you've got a personal relationship with Christ the savior? Then that's directly part of the black church experience. Does it mean you're born-again in a classic sense, with all the accoutrements that go along with that, as it's understood by some other tradition? I'm not sure."

"There are aspects of Christian tradition that I'm comfortable with and aspects that I'm not. There are passages of the Bible that make perfect sense to me and others that I go, 'Ya know, I'm not sure about that.'"

"It wasn't an epiphany," he says of that public profession of faith. "It was much more of a gradual process for me. I know there are some people who fall out. Which is wonderful. God bless them.... I think it was just a moment to certify or publicly affirm a growing faith in me."

Falsani warns us that Obama’s walking the aisle at Trinity is poles apart from what Christians commonly refer to as being "saved, transformed or washed in the blood." In other words, it’s not to be confused with what Jesus called being "born again." As Mr. Obama himself explains, "It wasn’t an epiphany … but just a moment to certify or publicly affirm a growing faith in me."

In another account of this event, Manya Brachear, writing in the Chicago Tribune, describes the event thusly: "When Obama sought his own church community, he felt increasingly at home at Trinity. Before leaving for Harvard Law School in 1988, he responded to one of Wright's altar calls and declared a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Falsani wonders, "What kind of faith is it that is growing in Barack Obama? Is it the historic Christian faith? Not according to the good senator, who describes his faith as: (1) Suspicious of dogma (2) Without any monopoly on the truth (3) Nontransferable to others (4) Infused with a big healthy dose of doubt, and (5) Indulgent of and compatible with all other religions."

Unlike traditional Christianity, which Mr. Obama bemoans for its "call to evangelize and proselytize," the good senator’s faith is strictly a personal and private affair. Although he has no qualms about parading it in public in hopes of bolstering his political career, he would never dream of preaching it to others in hopes of converting them to Christ.

At the core of Obama's faith -- whether lapsed Muslim, new Christian or some mixture of the two -- is African nativism and Obama's having pledged allegiance to the Black Value System raises political issues of its own.

Request for info: If anyone, anywhere, can validate Obama's baptism, please contact me via feedback or email with a source, link or other documentation.

 


2 posted on 10/22/2008 5:19:37 AM PDT by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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To: dennisw
This is treading on shaky ground to question one's faith. Could Obama have truly embraced Christ by walking down the aisle once after listening to Reverend Wright blast America? Yes, I suppose he could have.

The absense of a baptism is not condemning, but it is rather telling. It means Obama's conversion was not an important enough event to properly ritualize nor to even remember details of.

Perhaps a more telling truth is the way Obama refuses to admit that he was born a Muslim to a Muslim father, and that he was initially raised and schooled as a Muslim. That much is known and documented, but Obama denies it.

What is Obama's true faith? I would have to say that it is a tolerant, universalist pan-Christianity that believes there are many equal paths to God.

3 posted on 10/22/2008 5:28:38 AM PDT by Sender (Never lose your ignorance; you can never regain it!)
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To: dennisw

Baptism, I don’t believe is a hard-fast requirement to be a christian. Some denominations, may think so, but as far as I can tell, biblically, it does nothing for your souls destination, per se. One can be saved and go to heaven without babtism.

That said, no way do I believe that Obama has ever earnestly turned his life over to Christ, just like almost all Dem Pols, no evidence there was any conversion at all. My test, abortion. I can’t see how any saved person can allow themselves to be seen as appearing to support it, let alone actually openly, and publically supporting it. Almost all Dems FAIL this test.


4 posted on 10/22/2008 5:29:19 AM PDT by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
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To: dennisw

When they open his Mother’s crypt, they’ll find a hyena.


5 posted on 10/22/2008 5:30:46 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: dennisw
Request for info: If anyone, anywhere, can validate Obama's baptism, please contact me via feedback or email with a source, link or other documentation.

No one seems to be able to validate anything about The One.

6 posted on 10/22/2008 5:31:08 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: dennisw

WOW! Actually, that’s not very shocking at all... considering his name and his affiliations. And it’s just like everything else he’s ever done in his life. Obama has this tencency to partially defect to oneside with being impartial to the other, that’s one of my criticisms of the Messiah, is that you never know what his intentions are. Just like Jeremiah Wright, after 20 years of an affiliation with this nitwit, he speaks down to him initially, as if they dont harbor the same “black power, down with whitey” views. He only abandons him AFTER the pressure becomes to steep. That amongst other things prove that Obama’s not to be trusted with anything, he’s been pressured into everything he’s ever done throughout his career and lifetime. I dont believe that he’s ever made a conscience decision about anything, I dont believe that he has the ability to do that...... he’s a little liberal mouthpiece for the left, and an ally to muslim extremists around the world. The left can take it however they want it, however facts far outweigh opinion.


7 posted on 10/22/2008 5:34:38 AM PDT by AConservativeRealist
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To: dennisw

Oh and allow for me to set the record straight for any lib. who just happens to be snooping around in this here conservative website. Im 18 and black... so dont even attempt to play the race card.


8 posted on 10/22/2008 5:34:38 AM PDT by AConservativeRealist
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To: American_Centurion
Baptism, I don’t believe is a hard-fast requirement to be a christian.

If you are born a Muslim, then by Muslim tradition you remain a Muslim unless you renounce Islam. Simply saying you are a Christian does not state that you have renounced Islam. A baptism into a Church would be considered such a renouncement.

Now has anyone ever seen Obama eat pork?

9 posted on 10/22/2008 5:35:34 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: dennisw
I wouldn't even bother with this. There are so many "christians" who completely dismiss the plain language and instructions of the Bible when it comes to the topic of Baptism. If Obama was not baptized, he will fit right in with the millions of "christians" in the US who pick and choose whichever parts of the bible they like.

Given the absolutely wretched, hateful, racist, disgusting anti-american behavior and language of Barack's "church" I would not doubt at all if they and Barack completely ignore Christ's words that he is "the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the father but through me" - Barack probably falls into the crowd that refuses to say that other main religions are outside the teachings of Christ. For example, Barack would probably not say that the teachings of Mohammed and the Koran are wrong, and that Islam is not a true religion.
10 posted on 10/22/2008 5:41:32 AM PDT by Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh (I cling to guns and religion.)
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To: dennisw
Black Liberation Theology is NOT Christianity -> See Feddoso on James Cone
11 posted on 10/22/2008 5:42:38 AM PDT by igoramus08
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To: P-Marlowe
If you are born a Muslim, then by Muslim tradition you remain a Muslim unless you renounce Islam. Simply saying you are a Christian does not state that you have renounced Islam. A baptism into a Church would be considered such a renouncement.

That's the way I see it. Obama is very casual about his coming to Jesus. He's a faker
I'll bet the Muslim world considers him to be a Muslim who has gone a bit astray but can be corrected

12 posted on 10/22/2008 5:42:38 AM PDT by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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To: P-Marlowe

That renouncement may be an Islamic requirement, but from my studies, the Bible doesn’t require any renouncement of some other religion, to become a saved child of God.

That was the point of my post. Please don’t mistake any part of it as a defense of the O. Even if he were baptized, I wouldn’t believe his faith was real. His fruits, firstly defense of abortion and many other things besides that as well, show me what I need to know.


13 posted on 10/22/2008 5:48:23 AM PDT by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
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To: dennisw; xzins
I'll bet the Muslim world considers him to be a Muslim who has gone a bit astray but can be corrected

If there were a record of his adult baptism or if he were seen taking communion in a Christian Church, I suspect that his Muslim fan club would disband.

People think only nutcakes would say that Barry Stanley Dunham Sotero is a Muslim. Well, if he hasn't renounced it and shown his committment to Christ as his Savior by being baptized, then he IS a Muslim. I guess that makes me a nutcake.

14 posted on 10/22/2008 5:51:49 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: dennisw

A Muslim may Lie , Cheat , Steal and Murder if it advances the causes of islam . I’m certain 0bama hasn’t murdered anyone , but he sure has covered all the other bases .

If you want to know if 0bama is a muslim ask Geo. Stephanopulus who help straighten him out when he told Geo. , “ It’s true John McCain has never questioned my muslim faith “ . Geo.S. stopped 0bama in mid sentence and said , “ you mean your Christian faith , right ?” , eyes batting lips fumbling 0bama replies , “ yes, My Christian faith “ . If you would like to reference said quotes Google , “ 0bama admits muslim faith “ on YouTube . I am a Christian and could never make such a gaffe in a million years . People know their faith as well as they know their name .


15 posted on 10/22/2008 5:53:52 AM PDT by lionheart 247365 ((Socialism . . . a catalyst for apathy on the road to communism ))
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To: American_Centurion
the Bible doesn’t require any renouncement of some other religion, to become a saved child of God.

The Bible says to turn from false prophets and from ALL FORMS of idolatry.

And claiming you are a Christian does not make you a saved Child of God. No saved Child of God would have the political views about abortion that Barry Stanley Dunham Sotero has. His abortion stance is evidence that if he has a religion, it is Anit-Christ.

16 posted on 10/22/2008 5:54:46 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

We agree here.


17 posted on 10/22/2008 5:59:07 AM PDT by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
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To: dennisw

We will know he’s a Christian by his fruits.
We will know he’s a Christian by his love for fellow believers.
We will know he’s a Christian by his ever increasing knowledge and wisdom gained from rightly dividing the Word of God. Uh....strike three.


18 posted on 10/22/2008 6:01:39 AM PDT by uptoolate (Shhh. If you listen real hard, God is speaking to America.)
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To: P-Marlowe; dennisw

Obama is an unknown person and no one seems to care. I think the requirement is constitutional, so those who run for the Presidency, by constitution, must prove their natural born status.

To whom must they prove it?

Since it is Constitutional, and since the Chief Justice receives the oath of office, then I’d say it’s up to the Scotus to speak to the eligibility of anyone receiving that oath.

It must be the Scotus.


19 posted on 10/22/2008 6:05:40 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: xzins

Here’s an interesting scenario. If Obama is ruled ineligible to be POTUS before he is given the oath of office, then I would suspect that the electors for Obama would be ruled ineligible and since McCain would not have enough electors to be elected on the first vote, then the election would fall into the house of representatives. If the election is dropped into the lap of the house of representatives, there is only one likely candidate to emerge as POTUS. And we all know who she is.


20 posted on 10/22/2008 6:15:59 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; dennisw

21 posted on 10/22/2008 6:19:48 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: P-Marlowe

I would try first to argue that if one of the candidates is ineligible, then the other candidates were the only true candidates running for the presidency: McCain, Bahr, Baldwin, McKinny.

The winner take all delegates would then go to McCain SINCE he was the only legitimate candidate.


22 posted on 10/22/2008 6:23:32 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: dennisw

Let’s see those records.


23 posted on 10/22/2008 6:23:59 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Vote McWhatshisname and PALIN)
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To: dennisw

Here is my criterion for judging this: how many Muslims have condemned Obama for leaving Islam? How many are issuing death threats? All I hear of are endorsements, and middle eastern fund raisers. They WANT him to win. Would they want someone to win who they truly believe has left Islam for Christianity? No. Of course, if you look at the teachings and policies of Obama’s church, they are not biblical. Rev. Wright specifically rejects- on video- a Jesus who will save white people. They also endorse Louis Farrakhan and other Muslims. It appears to be a politically correct facade, teaching discontent and violence- specifically Black violence, and including Black Muslim violence- under the cover of a Christian church.


24 posted on 10/22/2008 6:27:18 AM PDT by stcromwell99
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To: dennisw

Are you God, or are you just acting in His stead?


25 posted on 10/22/2008 6:27:25 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: dennisw
Sadly, Christianity has been dumbed down to the point where millions of Americans do not believe that adult baptism is necessary.

John McCain happens to be one of them, BTW.

Of McCain, Biden, Obama, and Palin, only Palin has been baptized, as described by the New Testament. This issue isn't going anywhere.
26 posted on 10/22/2008 6:32:32 AM PDT by horse_doc
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To: dennisw

READ THIS CAREFULLY...

“but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

Give it a break. Be concerned with his radical socialist agenda.


27 posted on 10/22/2008 6:35:24 AM PDT by PurpleMan
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To: dennisw

The evangelical view is that baptism is not necessary for salvation. But it IS necessary for one to be a disciple.

The main point (at least from the evangelical view) is that baptism is PUBLIC. It’s purpose is to make a public symbolic identification with Christ. A “private” or “secret baptism” would be an oxymoron.


28 posted on 10/22/2008 6:46:10 AM PDT by cookcounty (Sarah and Todd Palin : They're more like us than we are.)
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To: dennisw; Cletus.D.Yokel; bcsco; PJ-Comix; Paul Heinzman
Chicago-based journalist, broadcaster and critic Andy Martin, when asked about Obama's baptism, wrote, "I have never been able to obtain any evidence that he was baptized, although I asked for those records."

If Obama is baptized, there should be a record of it. If he is not baptized, I do not consider him a Christian. That is the historic and objective line of demarcation, distinguishing Christians and non-Christians, going back to the very beginning of the Christian church.

I was baptized in the name of the Father and of the + Son and of the Holy Spirit on September 10, 1953.

BTW, I am a Lutheran pastor.

29 posted on 10/22/2008 7:14:43 AM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Born March 7, 1953. Born again September 10, 1953.)
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To: dennisw

So, no baptism. Probably no first communion, no confirmation, although a partial confession. Well, he ain’t Catholic, that’s for sure.


30 posted on 10/22/2008 7:49:59 AM PDT by Catholic Canadian ( I love Sarah Palin!!)
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To: Sender

Mathew 7:20
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

0bama supports an ideology that revels in, and encourages, defiance of all of the commands of God.

Should I question his salvation? No, not my place.


31 posted on 10/22/2008 7:56:21 AM PDT by MrB (0bama supporters: What's the attraction? The Marxism or the Infanticide?)
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To: P-Marlowe

Claiming you are a Christian for political expedience is exactly what is meant by “using the Lord’s name in vain”.

Yes, his views are of the antichrist. Read 1 John 4, specifically vs 5-6.


32 posted on 10/22/2008 7:58:48 AM PDT by MrB (0bama supporters: What's the attraction? The Marxism or the Infanticide?)
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To: dennisw
I wrote most of those words. That item was produced by editing together six different news items, plus the correspondence from the three reporters mentioned.

This is my request for info:

Request for info: If anyone, anywhere, can validate Obama’s baptism, please contact me via feedback or email with a source, link or other documentation.

http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaReligion.htm#Conversion

33 posted on 10/22/2008 8:44:32 AM PDT by Beckwith ('Typical White Person')
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To: P-Marlowe

Yep, Photo evidence of a North Carolina pulled-pork sandwich during the primaries.


34 posted on 10/22/2008 8:59:14 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel
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To: Charles Henrickson

The other question that could be asked is, “What is the teaching of the UCC regarding Baptism?”


35 posted on 10/22/2008 9:03:05 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel
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To: Charles Henrickson; Cletus.D.Yokel
Martin Luther's Large Catechism (1530)

Part Fourth: Of Baptism

"We have now finished the three chief parts of the common Christian doctrine. Besides these we have yet to speak of our two Sacraments instituted by Christ, of which also every Christian ought to have at least an ordinary, brief instruction, because without them there can be no Christian; although, alas! hitherto no instruction concerning them has been given. But, in the first place, we take up Baptism, by which we are first received into the Christian Church.

However, in order that it may be readily understood we will treat of it in an orderly manner, and keep only to that which it is necessary for us to know. For how it is to be maintained and defended against heretics and sects we will commend to the learned.

In the first place, we must above all things know well the words upon which Baptism is founded, and to which everything refers that is to be said on the subject, namely, where the Lord Christ speaks in the last chapter of Matthew, v. 19: Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Likewise in St. Mark, the last chapter, v. 16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

In these words you must note, in the first place, that here stand God's commandment and institution, lest we doubt that Baptism is divine, not devised nor invented by men. For as truly as I can say, No man has spun the Ten Commandments, the Creed, and the Lord's Prayer out of his head, but they are revealed and given by God Himself, so also I can boast that Baptism is no human trifle, but instituted by God Himself..."

36 posted on 10/22/2008 10:03:41 AM PDT by bcsco (Palin started her political career in a small town, Obama from the house of a domestic terrorist.)
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To: Beckwith

Oh, yeah I know it was yours.


37 posted on 10/22/2008 11:41:42 AM PDT by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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