It’s not just abortion that should drive Catholics away from Obama.

Many people are not aware that the Catholic Church also opposes socialism and mandated wealth redistribution for 3 main reasons:

1. It robs the lawful posessor of the wealth (stealing) 2. It hurts the recipient in the end (they should be entitled to hope for and to keep whatever wealth they acquire too) 3. It distorts the role of the state

On the last point, the Church teaches the principle of subsidiarity, which is that higher levels of community, such as the state, should only perform functions not better performed by lower levels of community, such as families and charities.

The church teaches that the wealthy have an obligation to the poor, but that this is a PERSONAL DUTY, not something the state should mandate or control. Furthermore, the oblication should be personal in nature (ie, get involved), whereas state programs separate the giver from the receiver.

The church discourages class welfare and contends that envy of the rich is a violation of the 9th commandment.

Furthermore, the poor are told “to have nothing to do with men of evil principles, who work upon the people with artful promises of great results, and excite foolish hopes which usually end in useless regrets and grievous loss.”

Don’t beleive me, read “Rerum Novarum”, which is the papal encyclical that lays these positions out. Think it is irrelevant to today, know that John Paul II wrote an encyclical in 1991 affirming Rerum Novarum and went on to explicitly condemn the “Social Assistance State”.

Now if only the entire clergy would pay attention.

More on Catholic teachings against socialism.

“Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected….By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood
and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need.”

John Paul II, From Centesimus Annus, Encyclical on 100th anniversary of Rerum Novarum, 1991

Thank-you for the article. Bookmarked.

that ideal equality about which they entertain pleasant dreams would be in reality the levelling down of all to a like condition of misery and degradation.

Well said. Communism is nothing more than equality at the lowest common denominator.

Umm, wow. Never thought I'd read that.
Now if only the leftstream of American protestant churches would follow suit.

The RCC has been very impressive this election. A lot of Bishops have come out and basically said you can’t vote for a Rat and be a good Catholic and now this. I can only hope this message reaches their members as I hope and pray all Baptists realize you can’t support a candidate the believes in infanticide and call yourself a Christian.

BTTT for later read. Thank you for posting this.

Check the date. The Church has held this teaching since 1891 (at the earliest!)

I hope you don’t mind my using your words in an argument elsewhere. This is too good to waste.

It’s not what I’ve been hearing from pulpits and as a collective voice. The “give to the poor” has been mangled into a sympathy (at least) with socialism, if not an informal backing. The protestant churches I’ve attended don’t even veil their “redistribute the earnings” socialist message.

I know it’s old. The teaching has been around for 117 years. I posted it in news partly out of humor and partly to underscore the fact that most people are truly unaware of Catholic Church fundamental teachings (including many Catholics.)

I got tired of hearing the “I’m voting for Obama because he wants to help people” argument from Catholics, as if abortion was the only, albeit extremely important, difference.

Good post.

>>The church discourages class welfare and contends that envy of the rich is a violation of the 9th commandment.<<

Covetousness is the basis for class envy and coerced wealth redistribution. Socialism/marxism is founded in sin.

“I hope you don’t mind my using your words in an argument elsewhere. This is too good to waste.”

Not at all. I encourage you to read the document in its entirety and quote away. There are lots of gems in it.

This should be required reading for many parish priests.

I agree the lines have been blurred from the pulpit; however, I think that is relatively exclusive to America, especially in reponse to some of the times where we’ve lost our Christian restraint on Capitalism. In countries where socialism has flourished, I believe you’ll find the Church on the side of human freedom.

Agreed - I just wanted to point out to people on FR that this isn’t a new development in the Church! :-)

Be sure to read the whole “article”, written by Pope Leo XIII in the 1890s. It’s several pages of Victorian Vaticanese translated to English from the original Latin, but well worth the effort. Very little of it is in any way peculiarly Catholic; any Christian of good will can and should feel free to make use of it.

The following is reprinted, with permission, from the volume, "Our Ageless Constitution," 1987 Bicentennial Edition, and summarizes America's founding principle which formed the basis for our constitutional protections. Perhaps, without knowing it, "Joe . . ." has opened up a dialogue on a subject that is overdue for public discussion, inasmuch as textbooks and discussions in the public square have not contrasted the real difference between American liberty and the tyranny of other ideas.

Private Property Rights

- A basic Premise Of America's Constitution

Tired of having the fruits of their labors confiscated by an overpowering British government, America's Founders declared themselves free and independent.

Most American schoolchildren can recite their claim that ". all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights ... to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Less familiar, however, are these lines from their Declaration of Independence:

"He ( King George III ) has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance .... He has combined with others to subject us, ... imposing taxes on us without our consent."

What, then, did the Founders consider to be the real cornerstone of man's liberty and happiness? On what basic premise did they devise their Constitution? Let them speak for themselves:

John Adams

"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God ... anarchy and tyranny commence. PROPERTY MUST BE SECURED OR LIBERTY CANNOT EXIST"

James Madison

"Government is instituted to protect property of every sort .... This being the end of government, that is NOT a just government,... nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has ... is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest."

Their guiding principle was that people come together to form governments in order to SECURE their rights to property - not to create an entity which wilt, itself, "take from the mouths of labor the bread it has earned." What was wrong for individual citizens to do to one another, they believed, was equally wrong for government to do to them.

The right to own property and to keep the rewards of individual labor opened the floodgates of progress for the benefit of the entire human race. Millions have fled other countries to participate in the Miracle of America.

Show this document to them. The RCC is ahead of its time.

The Catholic Church has condemned communism explicitly, but many of the positions of the Catholic Church on social justice and economic rights (excluding abortion) would have, and had have them mislabeled as “socialist” by many of the more anti-catholic posters on FR. For example, the USCCB are strongly in favor of universal, nationalized healthcare. They are also strongly supportive of raising the minimum wage, and comprehensive immigration reform.

The Church strongly condemns the current global capitalist system too, so this is just cherry picking Catholic teaching.

.

So, Jesus was NOT a socialist.

.

Boy, am I surprised. I am not a Catholic, but I attend a centering prayer group with quite a few Catholics, nuns among them; and they are communists, basically. What they call social justice strikes me as pure communism, and go along with the attendant hatred and envy of the producers, they have it all.

They totally support Chavez and the new communist leader of Bolivia, and everything they do. If a proposed law is out there that punishes businesses, they have the petition, and are collecting signatures.They are totally against private property of any kind, and all the "greedy corporations".It's been pretty shocking, really.

I love a lot of things about the Catholic church, and Father Keating, who teaches centering prayer; but there are just too many Catholics like this for me to join. I just figured that it came from the top. Since it obviously doesn't, where does it come from ?

In researching Church teachings on the role of government, I found striking similarities to the U.S. Constitution. In addition to the private property teachings, there are more.

The principle of subsidiarity, which is laid out in Rerum Novarum, is consistent with the intended minor role of the federal goverment.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that the role of the state is to “promote and defend” the common good. The common good is defined as:

1. Peace and security (provide for the common defense)
2. Social well-being (promote general welfare)
3. Respect for life and freedom (respect the blessings of liberty)

The items in parens are the three stated goals of the federal constitution contained in the preamble.

Very cool..

The doctrine may state that it opposes "socialism" but the lay ministry and the priests in many areas are not only "socialists" but communist as well.

This is of course limited to my areas of travel to South American, Central America and parts of Indonesia.

ChurtleDawg, please cite your source documents. I don’t doubt you’ve heard this stuff, but it would not reflect official doctrine or magesterial teachings of the Church.

I have the USCCB booklet on voting guidelines. It says the Church favors programs that provide universal ACCESS to health care, not nationalized health care. Big difference.

Also, it is unfortunately not rare for a priest and/or Bishop to run astray of Church doctrine and teachings. Always look for official documents on doctrine and magesterial items.

Let me clarify...universal access to health care does not necessarily mean a state-controled universal health care system. There is a big difference.

Bookmarked

for example:

Quadragesimo Anno, Pope Pius XI, 1931 (states and clarifies opposition to pure free market capitalism)

“Just as the unity of human society cannot be founded on an opposition of classes, so also the right ordering of economic life cannot be left to a free competition of forces. For from this source, as from a poisoned spring, have originated and spread all the errors of individualist economic teaching. Destroying through forgetfulness or ignorance the social and moral character of economic life, it held that economic life must be considered and treated as altogether free from and independent of public authority, because in the market, i.e., in the free struggle of competitors, it would have a principle of self direction which governs it much more perfectly than would the intervention of any created intellect. But free competition, while justified and certainly useful provided it is kept within certain limits, clearly cannot direct economic life...”

I encourage you to take a clear look at the entirety of Catholic teaching on these subjects because they are much more nuanced and do not fit clearly on a simple right-left political scale

no, but they do believe, and have stated repeatedly, that every American has a right to health care. A RIGHT. Show me where I am in error.

I am a Catholic and I am not trying to disparage the Catholic Church. I just believe that trying to use Catholic nuanced teachings on social issues should not be converted to political soundbites.

no, but they do believe, and have stated repeatedly, that every American has a right to health care. A RIGHT. Show me where I am in error.

I am a Catholic and I am not trying to disparage the Catholic Church. I just believe that Catholic teachings are nuanced and very wise and should not be cherry picked for political points.

“Now if only the entire clergy would pay attention.”

THAT my dear friend is putting it mildly.

And, that same “now if” must include the principal administrators at American Roman Catholic colleges as well as who they hire as educators.

Just as in public and other private colleges it is from the “educators” that the last two generations have been indoctrinated by Marxists, and from which Catholic “educators” did not escape and were not given the foundations in faith to reject the variants of Marxism they were taught.

I have read that document. It is, in fact an affirmation of Rerum Novarum on its 40th anniversary, thus the name in Latin. In fact, the latter document referenced above in which I quote JPII, was published on 100th anniversary.

I do not agree that an entire encyclical that condems socialism can be categorized as a political soundbite.

You cite is a partial quote of a single paragraph from the document. The remainder goes on to state, right after you cut it off:

“...- a truth which the outcome of the application in practice of the tenets of this evil individualistic spirit has more than sufficiently demonstrated. Therefore, it is most necessary that economic life be again subjected to and governed by a true and effective directing principle. This function is one that the economic dictatorship which has recently displaced free competition can still less perform, since it is a headstrong power and a violent energy that, to benefit people, needs to be strongly curbed and wisely ruled. But it cannot curb and rule itself. Loftier and nobler principles - social justice and social charity - must, therefore, be sought whereby this dictatorship may be governed firmly and fully. Hence, the institutions themselves of peoples and, particularly those of all social life, ought to be penetrated with this justice, and it is most necessary that it be truly effective, that is, establish a juridical and social order which will, as it were, give form and shape to all economic life. Social charity, moreover, ought to be as the soul of this order, an order which public authority ought to be ever ready effectively to protect and defend. It will be able to do this the more easily as it rids itself of those burdens which, as We have stated above, are not properly its own.”

The second half of the paragraph you cite basically goes on to state that there ought to be regulations in place in a free market and that moral charcter needs to pervade in all institutions in order for the system to suceed.

A RIGHT does not necessarily mean state-controlled health care.

Church doctrine and magesterial teachings don’t change. They can be clarified or expanded on, but never changed. When Pope Leo XIII taught in an encyclical that socialism is contrary to Church teachings, that cannot be later refuted.

Red Boots:

The support and political views you cite are unfortunate and do not represent official Church support or views. In many canses, the source of this is often just ignorance of doctrine/magesterial teachings or interjected individualism.

Unfortunately, the Church in Europe and the U.S. is suffering from damage done by members that think they are free to replace Church doctrine and magesterial teachings with their own views of what is “right”. This is apostacy and heresy in some cases. The Church explicity condemns this. However, the Church does not police its teachings.

Feel free to send me a private message if you are truly considering coming home and joining the Church. I can expand on this and get you pointed to the right sources.

Amen on the Catholic College point. Out of over 200 in the U.S., only 21 continue to conform to magesterial teachings. I plan to send all three of my children to one of them. A link to the list of faithful colleges can be found at:

http://www.catholichighered.org/TheNewmanGuide/tabid/356/ctl/Details/mid/1225/ItemID/47/Default.aspx

"No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true Socialist". (Pius XI, Quad. Anno, 1931)

There is already universal ACCESS as no one can be turned away from emergency rooms by law. This is one of the myths of the argument ....

You seem to be missing the point. The Catholic Church’e stance is highly critical of both socialism and capitalism.

The Church is equally against consumerism and individualism.

The Church advocates a third way-—a way that combines private ownership with a mechanism to share the wealth fairly, one that always puts human needs above profit.

G.K. Chesterton called it “distributism”-—which combines features of both socialism and capitalism with basic Christian values, such as the preferential option for the poor.

Ping

Distributism was Chesterton’s failed attempt to produce a working model of Church social encyclicals put into practice.

Its failure reflects only the limitations of its theorists, and should not be presented as the teaching of the Church, which does not advocate any particular social or economic system.

I think we are in agreement on Church position here. My main point is that the Church condemns redistribution of wealth by state mandate (socialism).

Your point is that the Church does not condone unchecked capitalism. I agree.

The way promoted by the Church is indeed in the middle of this, as is laid out in Rerum Novarum and the later affirming encyclicals:

1. Laws to protect private property
2. Laws to protect the masses from being enslaved
3. State promotion of good charitable and social programs (not necessarily running them)
4. A pervasive morality in which the wealthy willingly share out of a sense of personal charitable duty.

#1 indicates support of some form of a flat tax rate, but admitedly, this is my interpretation.

It’s refreshing to encounter another Catholic that actually reads Church teachings. Forgive me if my tone seemed argumentative.

Just for the record, the USCCB is not a doctrinal body.

"4. A pervasive morality in which the wealthy willingly share out of a sense of personal charitable duty.

Maybe this is a quibble, but if the rich are sharing out of a sense of duty, it still isn't charity.

If the Catholic Church is so opposed to socialism, then why hasn’t Father Pfleger been excommunicated?

I find that the Catholic Church has some of the best critiques of modern society, if one cares to read them. There is so much deep insight. I often find that the more I think about it, the more right the Magisterium’s teachings are on sound both moral AND practical levels-—and that is not just on theological matters.

The world would be a much better place if more people listened to what the Catholic Church has to say.

Excellent post and thanks!!

Thanks for the lesson. I grew up Catholic and was surprised to see this headline. I assumed the church was for socialism, since they were for illegals invading our country and told us we can to keep them and support them.

(Denver) Archbishop Criticizes Obama, Catholic Allies ( Finally! )

Little Murders [Bishop Chaput Slams Obama on Abortion & Blasts Kmiec for Misleading Catholics]

Bishop Finn does everything but name Obama

Colorado bishops correct governor’s ‘bad theology’ on Catholic teaching about human dignity

Bishop Holley Calls on Black Community to Stop Planned Parenthood's Racial Slaughter

Mashek of US News: Bishop Violates First Amendment by Denying Biden Communion

Bishop of Scranton pledges vigilance in correcting pro-choice Catholic politicians

Bishop Finn: Can a Catholic Vote in Support of Abortion?

Values: Abortion tops list (Area Catholics get warning from bishop)

Bishop Robert Hermann on Voting to 'Save Our Children'

Black Catholic Bishop Holley: Abortion Exploits African-American Community

Bishop of Fresno removes priest who opposes Prop. 8

Bishop Martino of Scranton on Respect Life Sunday

Bishop Vasa: Pro-Abortion Candidates are 'Disqualified'

Bishop reminds Catholics to remember Judgment Day in the voting booth(Vote for Obama-get zapped)

Arizona Bishops Encourage Yes Vote in Support of Proposition 102, the Marriage Amendment

Bishop Aquila's Address on Absolutes in Life Issues

Kerry: Abortion, HELL is a Reality and we are Free to Choose it, Bishop Samuel J. Aquila, Fargo

Bishop Soto Stuns national homosexual ministries conference

Biden avoids confrontation with his new bishop

U.S. Catholic Bishop Rene H. Gracida Releases Radio Ad

Cardinal Rigali issues Pastoral letter stating abortion is the "Transcending Issue of Our Day"

Updated: American Bishops who have spoken against Pelosi

Here is the complete list of American bishops who have responded to Nancy Pelosi's comments so far:

Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver was the first American bishop to respond
... Bishop James Conley, his auxiliary, joined him
Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington DC responded twice, first in a press release and second in a statement to The Hill. He has also appeared on Fox News, I am told.
Cardinal Justin Regali of Philadelphia, chairman of the Committee on Pro-Life Activities, issued this statement through the USCCB website...
... Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, chairman of the Committee on Doctrine, joined him
Cardinal Edward Egan of New York publised a strongly worded statement of his own
Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo issued a letter correcting Pelosi's claims
Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh and...
... Bishop Michael Sheridan of Colorado Springs have chimed-in
Archbishop Jose Gomez of San Antonio, CNA reports has added his voice ...
... Bishop Oscar Cantu, his auxiliary bishop, has joined him
Bishop William Murphy of Rockville has published an extensive letter
Bishop Edward Slattery of Tulsa has a detailed response
Bishop Kevin Farrell of Dallas has joined the USCCB's efforts
Bishop Gregory Aymond of Austin is on-board
Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston mentions the USCCB on his blog
Bishop Thomas Wenski of Orlando has written at length
Archbishop John Nienstedt of Saint Paul/Minneapolis challenges Pelosi's statement
Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, President of the US Bishops, has weighed-in
Bishop Robert Vasa of Baker, OR publishes in the Catholic Sentinel
Bishop Jerome Listecki of La Crosse, WI responds in a word document
Bishop Richard Lennon of Cleveland, OH will comment in his September 5th column (PDF)
Bishop Ralph Nickless of Sioux City, IA has one of the very best responses I've read
Archbishop George Niederauer of San Francisco has invited Pelosi to a "conversation"
Bishop Glen Provost, LA: "Catholic Church clear on when human life begins"
Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn: "Judging the Candidates"

{Last updated on September 10th.}

Notes:

Previous #23 has been removed. Bishop Joseph Gossman of Raleigh, NC is actually the bishop emeritus, and the new bishop, Michael Burbidge has not, to my knowledge, made a personal statement.
Previous #16 has also been removed, it was an erroneous duplication of current #13.
#26 was added September 10th, although he published his column September 6th