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Conservatives, Time to Adopt Saul Alinsky Tactics
Discoverthenetworks.org ^ | April 2008 | John Perazzo

Posted on 11/05/2008 1:59:20 PM PST by samsmom

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To: samsmom
Alinsky was a revolutionist. We should be Counter-Revolutionist.

Obama and his revolutionary friends won. We must be a counter their Revolution.

101 posted on 11/05/2008 4:33:48 PM PST by do the dhue (They've got us surrounded again. The poor bastards. General Creighton Abrams)
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To: samsmom
Alinsky was a revolutionist. We should be Counter-Revolutionist.

Obama and his revolutionary friends won. We must be a counter their Revolution.

102 posted on 11/05/2008 4:33:51 PM PST by do the dhue (They've got us surrounded again. The poor bastards. General Creighton Abrams)
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To: Def Conservative
I have both of Alinsky’s books...brought em when I first saw Obama rising.

I have one. I bought it during the Oboma rising, too.

Oboma was tactic #3.(Whenever possible, go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause fear, confusion, and retreat.) Oboma was the first black candidate. Everyone, including the press, had no idea how to treat him without being labeled a racist. Anything that put Oboma on the defensive was immediately referred to as "a racial attack."

That leads to tactic #5. Call anyone who threatens Oboma a racist (Ridicule is mans most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counter attack ridicule). Those who are accused of racism are instantly put on the defensive. They're forced to prove they're not a racist. The only way to do that is to apologize to Oboma!!

103 posted on 11/05/2008 4:36:22 PM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: wideawake
In other words, we should use derivative and immoral tactics that our enemies already know very well and which they are far more experienced than us in using.

No. You're response to their tactics gives them their power. Know you're under attack, and you'll be able to deal with it in a logical rather than knee jerk manner.
Their attacks catch people off guard, and your response can then be used against you.

104 posted on 11/05/2008 4:41:30 PM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: samsmom

Why not use the Constitution? Why ‘tactics of the left’? The Constitution cannot be relevant if we don’t use it.


105 posted on 11/05/2008 4:42:30 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: jonathonandjennifer
What Micheal Medved is doing:

First he is afraid. But he also recalls the organizer's initial articulation of middle-class ideals and morals. Thus he convinces himself that the People's Organization is surely composed of reasonable people who actually hold values similar to his own, and who seek resolutions that will be beneficial to both sides. This thought process causes him to proffer -- in hopes of appeasing the angry mobs -- concessions and admissions of guilt, which the organizer in turn exploits to gain still greater moral leverage and to extort further concessions.<

106 posted on 11/05/2008 4:45:06 PM PST by Red Boots
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To: rochester_veteran
Alinsky's tactics utilize lies and deceit and I am so disgusted from dealing with moonbats that are disciples of that man. Because of his "training" that he gave to some inner city ministers back in 1964 here in Rochester, we've had two generations of staged "victimhood" protests and those neighborhoods where the ministers are located have gotten worse, not better.

He decried the life of the average man for its hopelessness, but it seems like the new society they created is really not much different, and in many ways worse.

107 posted on 11/05/2008 4:50:24 PM PST by Red Boots
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
Expect the mindless herd of all talk no walk complainers (united by a shared hatred of Bush) to play the part of the victim as they supposedly watchdog the government that they control.
108 posted on 11/05/2008 4:51:57 PM PST by Milhous (Ask me about my Anger Management Disorder.)
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To: boxlunch
Yes, it would be a starting point. A point that any motivated conservative could begin with.

You see we didn't get to this point yesterday. This has been decades in the making. It will take several generations to undo. They didn't start out a big influential leftists. In the 1980’s they were the fringe, but we must admire their persistence to become accepted mainstream, and as of yesterday...a majority. They didn't face the opposition we will face, so we will not be successful with grand plans. It will be the small plans that will establish the roots.

We must look to be like the mustard seed. Perhaps there is a name...The Mustard Seed Academy?

109 posted on 11/05/2008 4:52:16 PM PST by EBH (The Day the Music Died)
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To: gundog
Why does anybody think this guy's brilliant?

Probably because the left has been kicking our asses with his tactics for over 50 years.

110 posted on 11/05/2008 4:54:17 PM PST by r9etb
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To: stayathomemom
What I recommend is classical Christian education. There are quite a few full time private and private/homeschool hybrids doing this already. It teaches kids to think critically, to express themselves well,gives them a Christian worldview and a great foundation in the Christian classics of philosophy and literature that shaped the thinking of our founding fathers (most of them had a similar type of education.)
111 posted on 11/05/2008 4:55:40 PM PST by boxlunch
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To: samsmom

No.

I am a conservative, and will remain so because I believe in treating people I interact with personally with respect by default, unless there are overt reasons not to. Alinsky’s ‘rules’ are a complete and total abdication of that.

If living in a society means I have to resort to that, I will change the society I live in.

I will not adopt such a hideous moral code.

Conservatism will win, in the end. It may be four years, 20 years or 100 years, but socialism CAN NOT PREVAIL. Socialism and everything that goes with it cannot stand on its own merits and will fail.

There will be much misery before we come out the other side, but we will come out the other side.


112 posted on 11/05/2008 4:57:38 PM PST by rlmorel (Who is Saul Alinsky and why is Barack Obama a disciple of his methods?)
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To: samsmom

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

I’ve been say this for years. Conservatives come to the battlefield thinking that the can win by engaging in the “War of Ideas” where it’s really a battle on activism.

They use nukes; we fight by Marquee of Queensberry rules and wonder why we get trounced. For the love of God; It’s an effing blood sport!

“Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.” Sun Tzu


113 posted on 11/05/2008 4:58:56 PM PST by PurpleMan
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To: MeanWestTexan

I’ve been thinking the same thing for a while now. The problem is that while everyone on this board is a political junkie, at heart I believe we all really hate politics and wish it would just all go away so we could live in peace. Unfortunately, we are condemned by human nature to be ever vigilant to keep our “servants” from becoming tyrants. Given that that’s the case, I say we use their tactics against them. We just have to figure out how to do so effectively.


114 posted on 11/05/2008 5:12:15 PM PST by Hardastarboard (America is so "twenty minutes ago")
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To: wintertime
* Conservatives must start private sports leagues to break the monopoly of government schools on sports. It is the sports teams that attract so many of our conservative children to the government indoctrination camps.

Maybe aside from everything else we need to start emphasizing individual over team sports: fencing, boxing, tennis, judo, bicycle racing or whatever, ANYTHING is less expensive than major league football or basketball.

115 posted on 11/05/2008 5:22:43 PM PST by wendy1946
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To: Red Boots
He decried the life of the average man for its hopelessness, but it seems like the new society they created is really not much different, and in many ways worse.

I've seen Alinsky tactics used here in Rochester, first hand. For sure, we need to know the tactics that are used by the radical/socialists, so we know what we're dealing with and how to counter them, but as a Catholic Christian, a Vietnam Era Veteran, a Patriot and a Conservative, I strongly advise conservatives to not embrace Saul Alinsky! His community organizing and training in Rochester, NY fostered generations of "victims" and an entrenched entitlement mentality in our inner-city neighborhoods.

116 posted on 11/05/2008 5:22:45 PM PST by rochester_veteran ( http://RochesterConservative.com)
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To: wintertime
We must **especially** take control of education!!!!!

I hope you're not in a hurry. The Marxists have been working on education for over 40 years. Sure, as a long term goal, fine, go after education, but we're going to have to fight an entrenched democrat Marxist teachers union, and the brain dead parents, themselves a product of said corrupted educational system.

But it ain't gonna get you anywhere in the mean time.

Other tactics will have to be employed.

117 posted on 11/05/2008 5:22:55 PM PST by AFreeBird
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To: teletech

we need to find some now. rebuild and fight.


118 posted on 11/05/2008 5:24:19 PM PST by Big Guy and Rusty 99 (If Benito Mussolini was IL DUCE, Barack Obama is ILL DOUCHE!)
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To: AFreeBird

Please read post #27 again.

What I am suggesting is an end run around the government schools.

Don’t send a conservative child to a government schools. We must open our own. Post #27 explains how.

The goal should be to SHUT DOWN as many government schools as possible. Put the Marxist teachers in the unemployment line!


119 posted on 11/05/2008 5:28:12 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: Hardastarboard
The problem is that while everyone on this board is a political junkie, at heart I believe we all really hate politics and wish it would just all go away so we could live in peace.

You're absolutely spot-on, Hardastarboard! Quite frankly, I can't stand the political game. Most of us just want to live our lives and not worry about this stuff. That's why we get ambushed sometimes, as what happened with this election. We don't have government funded advocacy groups such as ACORN, to pay "volunteers" to aid and abet voter fraud. I'd rather we not resort to such tactics, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

120 posted on 11/05/2008 5:31:55 PM PST by rochester_veteran ( http://RochesterConservative.com)
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To: wendy1946

Maybe aside from everything else we need to start emphasizing individual over team sports: fencing, boxing, tennis, judo, bicycle racing or whatever, ANYTHING is less expensive than major league football or basketball.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with the individual sports concept.

But...The taxpayer is already paying for expensive youth team sports through their school taxes. Transfer all these team sports to the Parks and Recreation Departments of the various counties. Make participation in the sports totally unconnected to a child’s attendance at any school.

This will help to break the back of the government school monopoly on team sports. Many children go to government schools just to have access to the sports.


121 posted on 11/05/2008 5:31:58 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: wintertime

Uhmmm...yeah, how would transferring sports to parks and recs save a single penny? in fact, it would end up costing a whole lot more because then the kids that go to private schools would have no reason to go there for sports .-.-.-and if you dont know that kids go to private schools for sports, your living under a rock. Then the kids that go to homeschooling will now start to play sports on the parks and recs dime, instead of there parents paying for them!!!

so, if we xfer sports to parks and rec, all youve done is stop paying peter and start paying paul .-.-. a whole LOT More money!

sorry, but thats one of the stupider ideas i’ve heard lately, but of course the weak is only half over


122 posted on 11/05/2008 5:39:59 PM PST by KristieK
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To: wintertime
That's all very well and good, but it won't do much. While conservatives don't believe in murdering unborn children, the Marxist don't have to worry. Illegal alien, and dumbed down minority people will provide the replacement drones for "The Party".

IMHO, unless and until the education of the masses as a whole is restored, and children are taught how to think and not what to think, it will be a losing battle. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying don't look at it as the saving grace for the nation as a whole.

123 posted on 11/05/2008 5:40:14 PM PST by AFreeBird
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To: PurpleMan

Please READ the article. It is about organizing at the local level, taking back our institutions—we have forfeited our schools, the media, Hollywood and even internet search engines to the leftists and “social advocates”. If we don’t advance Conservative ideals, Capitalism, Free Speech, the family unit, marriage between A man and A woman, the pursuit of happiness, freedom—the left will continue to erode those ideals and when they’re done, we won’t recognize this country. This 2008 presidential election was possible because of a very strong grassroots effort by Obama supporters, a media that saw nothing, said nothing, heard nothing and several generations of indoctrination in our schools. Conservatives must counter with their own grassroots efforts and get off our duffs!


124 posted on 11/05/2008 5:46:15 PM PST by samsmom
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To: samsmom

We can start using such tactics in California if the courts have the audacity to try and overturn Prop 8.


125 posted on 11/05/2008 5:49:12 PM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: KristieK
Saving money is not the point. Giving a kids another reason **not** to attend a government indoctrination camp is.

Remember Saul Alinsky! The point is to starve the government schools of students.

Please read post #27. Team sports is merely one aspect of applying Saul Alinsky to educational aspect of promoting conservativism.

By the way, conservative educational foundations could sponsor their own team sporting leagues, and in this way it would save the taxpayer lots of dollars.

It is also possible that a Parks and Recreation coach may not cost as much as a unionized government teacher-coach.

126 posted on 11/05/2008 5:55:08 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: samsmom

we have forfeited our schools
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I did read the article.

We should NOT attempt to infiltrate the government schools. We should work to get the kids out of them and to shut the indoctrination camps down.


127 posted on 11/05/2008 5:59:48 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: wintertime

it’s good tht saving money is not the point because your plan would cost thousands of thousands of dollars to communities. factor in the needed insurance, possible lawsuits, salary for staff, equipment, feild manatainance, expansion of various programs, referees, umpires, training, coaches, treatment of sports injurees, ambulances when needed, security -.-.-. things that schools do and no one htinks about.

you keep saying that this person could or that agency could do various things. maybe, and some do now. the lions club does a gret job in our area with soccer, and the babe ruth does baseball, and these are all supported with tax dollars allocted from communities. there is nothing stopping any conservative group or church R*I*G*H*T N*O*W from anything you say, they dont because the money is drying up becase of the economy and things will only get worse with the new ideas from obami

so what sports does your church support/ and if not, why not.


128 posted on 11/05/2008 6:05:37 PM PST by KristieK
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To: wintertime

u havent been around much parks and recs have you? my nephews rec baseball game had two umpires at his last game. i started talking to one afterwards becase my nephew wants to umpire. they said they get E*a*c*h* 110 for the game and they perfer rec league because the high schools only pay 50 a game for each.

yeah, it’s cheaper, right, you just dont know wht u are talking about, but it sounds good so i guess you get points for that


129 posted on 11/05/2008 6:11:10 PM PST by KristieK
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To: Khepri

Absolutely not!! I am for Capitalism, people rising to the highest level their God-given abilities and efforts will take them. I reject communism, socialism, totalitarianism, fascism. The one good thing we can borrow from these radicals is building a strong LOCAL grassroots effort. I think Conservatives are too busy working, raising their families, etc. that we have let the screamy-meemies take over our schools, the media, even the Sunday sermons. If we don’t stand up for our values, really stand up and organize, we forfeit. Right now, 5 days a week, there is a Socialist teaching new immigrants American history. Every time I pass her class, she is teaching these newcomers the bad things America has done. First with the Indians, then with slavery, then Japanese internment camps—you would think this a vile vile country. Yesterday, she wore a Yes We Can button to her class. Is there anyone for me to complain, to? The local school district? People, the left is seriously committed to undermining this country. I have two recent college grads, one is in the Marines. Neither one fell into the indoctrination trap. Are you doing your part with your kids? Do you question what you are getting for the tuition you pay? Do you question what our kids are learning in our schools dominated by left-leaning teachers? Isn’t Bill Ayres, a Saul Alinsky student, an “education reformer.”


130 posted on 11/05/2008 6:15:43 PM PST by samsmom
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To: wintertime

Alternative schools. I like it. Can’t be done without school vouchers. First we need to come up with alternatives to the Teacher’s Colleges.


131 posted on 11/05/2008 6:18:17 PM PST by samsmom
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To: samsmom

I disagree. How can anything good come out of anything Alinsky had to teach? I think 2 Chronicles 7:14 would work much better.


132 posted on 11/05/2008 7:39:48 PM PST by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: jonathonandjennifer

Medved is sniveling..


133 posted on 11/05/2008 8:05:36 PM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: xcamel

What is a DFAPP?


134 posted on 11/05/2008 8:49:57 PM PST by Postman
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To: jonathonandjennifer

Medved is a slobbering toad. He is a moderate who got his kind of party the last two elections. We got eaten by piranhas doing it his way. So now he will bawl and slobber and grovel. It’s almost as funny seeing these Rino’s kissing and smooching the Dems cheeks as it is to fight with them here.


135 posted on 11/06/2008 1:28:41 AM PST by Luke21
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

BTTT


136 posted on 11/06/2008 2:58:16 AM PST by E.G.C. (Click on a freeper's screename and then "In Forum" to read his/her posts)
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To: samsmom
Conservatives who feel displaced, disenfranchised need to start organizing. This is a great piece. I think we should all read "Rules for Radicals" and see how well it would work for us!

Who will produce the wealth in this nation if conservatives take to community uprising? Alinsky identified the spirit of chaos in his tribute to Lucifer and that is foreign to the minds and spines of conservatism.

137 posted on 11/06/2008 3:11:52 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: Postman

Democrat for all practical purposes


138 posted on 11/06/2008 3:26:31 AM PST by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
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To: teletech
Junk yard dog politics is where we need to go but that takes cajones and Republicans are sorely lacking in that area.

Yes! We need to start fighting to win. Enough of this "taking the high road" BS... no more deals with dirty Democrats and "reaching across the aisle" nonsense. We need a young charismatic people -- not recycled old senators. We need to stay on message and raise as much $$ as possible.

139 posted on 11/06/2008 3:29:20 AM PST by grimalkin (For everyone but America the free world is mostly a free ride. -Mark Steyn)
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To: NeoConfederate

****“Ridicule,” said Alinsky, “is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule”.***

So! The MSM followed Alinsky’s advice and used this tactic against President Bush for EIGHT YEARS...even while we were at war!

Nice touch!


140 posted on 11/06/2008 4:41:44 AM PST by sodpoodle (Man studies evolution to understand His creation.)
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To: grimalkin
Yes! We need to start fighting to win. Enough of this "taking the high road" BS... no more deals with dirty Democrats and "reaching across the aisle" nonsense. We need a young charismatic people -- not recycled old senators. We need to stay on message and raise as much $$ as possible.

We need some good "BACK BENCH BOMB THROWERS" to stop the runaway DemocRAT giveaway machine. PHIL-E-BUSTER!

141 posted on 11/06/2008 6:35:01 AM PST by teletech (Friends don't let friends vote DemocRAT)
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To: samsmom

I disagree- vehemently. The entire basis of Alinsky’s rules is the use of deception and manipulation. Clearly- we need to “market” and “sell” our ideas better- but the rules of Alinsky are not rooted in CONSERVATIVE principles.

Again- any fight for ideas based upon the ends justifying the means is destined to fail, either immediately or over time. THAT is why socialism does NOT work. It survives as an idea because it answers a vague longing that the world should be a better and fairer place. It FAILS because it removes the equally human desire to spontaneously reach out and help people who are hurting or in trouble. It legalizes and demands I give to my brother or sister.

Go listen to or read Ronald Reagan’s “Rendezvous with Destiny” speech. Get grounded in conservative philosphy and ideas- learn how to talk about them and articulate why they WORK when they’re tried.

I’m not encouraging a passive attitude- that’s part of what has brought us to this place. We NEED people who will be unafraid to talk about our principles- who avoid vague non-answers to difficult questions.

Saul Alinsky IS well worth studying- to understand the mind of our opponents- NOT to emulate.


142 posted on 11/06/2008 6:48:51 AM PST by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: Hardastarboard

We don’t need everyone on this board. We need 10 or so committed individuals in each major city.

Someone go dump a load of horse sh!t in the lobby of Newsweek to start.

Target local individuals until they break.


143 posted on 11/06/2008 6:59:06 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (A Jew voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.)
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To: Milhous
Expect the mindless herd of all talk no walk complainers (united by a shared hatred of Bush) to play the part of the victim as they supposedly watchdog the government that they control.
Indeed.

144 posted on 11/06/2008 7:18:08 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The conceit of journalistic objectivity is profoundly subversive of democratic principle.)
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To: xcamel

Thanks


145 posted on 11/06/2008 8:07:24 AM PST by Postman
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To: samsmom

It’s a shame we couldn’t have destroyed Obama when he ran for Senate (or sooner) because it was clear to me then he would be a formidable candidate for the presidency.


146 posted on 11/06/2008 8:31:16 AM PST by TAdams8591 (McCain/Palin ' 08 (Obama IS a socialist!))
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To: NeoConfederate

Political jiu-jitsu..


147 posted on 11/06/2008 8:52:27 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: SE Mom

Funny you should mention Reagan, I was searching out his speeches last night! He was amazing at articulating Conservative principles. We don’t have anyone like that right now—Gingrich has too much baggage. There is no one that’s inspirational and educational at one and the same time. Jindal is impressive and articulate. Hope someone comes up on the horizon that strikes just the right balance.


148 posted on 11/06/2008 9:03:33 AM PST by samsmom
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To: cricket

The Corpse (Holmes) interviewed Joe The Plumber via satellite last night on H&C and just HAD to bring up the fact that Joe was once on Welfare.
Poor Joe...he just chuckled,shook his head & explained briefly that it was for a very short period,then moved on.
Liberals take such delight in the wanton evisceration of innocent people who dare to color outside their ideological lines.


149 posted on 11/06/2008 9:07:11 AM PST by gimme1ibertee (Revolution!!!!)
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To: samsmom

It deeply saddens me that there is no more Reaganesque types out there. Actually, Sarah would be the closest thing,but she needs some polishing in the knowledge department.Other than that,she’s just right-strong,folksy,
family-oriented and america-loving.
I’d like to see her “pal around” with the likes of Ann Coulter and Phyllis Schlafly.Bone up on Reagan’s speeches.Study Margaret Thatcher. By the time 2012 comes around, she’d kick each and every butt that comes down the pike.NO ONE could hold her back....NO ONE. She’d be the conservative juggernaut.


150 posted on 11/06/2008 9:13:11 AM PST by gimme1ibertee (Revolution!!!!)
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