Posted on 11/07/2008 8:25:32 AM PST by ikeonic
“No one is asking fiscal conservatives to support reinstating anti-sodomy laws, but we are asking that you support laws against, you know, killing human beings.”
Hear, hear. Any “conservative” who supports the “pro-choice” position is a hypocrite, fool, and enemy.
I think Roe v. Wade was a terrible decision on Constitutional grounds which should be overturned and the issue should returned to the states. It's a moral issue that should be decided by the democratic process at the state level just as we do with gay marriage, polygamy, incest and number of other moral issues. Abortion was never, ever a federal issue prior to 1973 when the Supreme Court made it a federal issue. I would like the people to have a chance to proclaim the legal status of abortion (as the people of South Dakota just did) rather than 9 people in robes in D.C. The only way abortion should be a federal issue is if the people elect to amend the federal Constitution as we did with alcohol and Prohibition.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
While it doesn't say that people have a right to choose murder, it DOES say that the several States have the right to determine what murder is and provide punishment for that crime as they see fit.
There are a lot of anti-federalists like me (and Fred Thompson) that think that banning abortion at a Federal level is just as wrong (constitutionally speaking) as Roe v. Wade.
That does not make us supporters of abortion.
I want to see Roe v. Wade overturned. I want the abortion issue to be returned to the states. And then I'll work to get abortion outlawed by my state.
But I won't support a federal ban on abortion.
Personally, I do not agree with the sentiments (I believe an outlaw of abortion is Constitutionally justifiable under the 5th and 14th amendments) — but I would agree that the above is a conservative position.
H
I suspect that most “pro-choice” conservatives do not believe “that women should by choice murder their unborn children,” to use your words. They may well believe simply that in today’s American society, women should not be sent to prison for having an abortion early in their pregnancy. This is an issue that can keep a Marxist in the White House. Many young women (and men too, with respect to their wives and daughters) who are inclined to conservatism cannot accept the idea that they should go to prison if they decide to terminate their pregnancy. We need to try to persuade women that abortion is immoral, we need to help women find alternatives to abortion, and we need to make sure women understand the risks that abortion raises for their mental and physical health. However, we do not need to drive conservatives out of the Republican Party and thereby help keep a Marxist in the White House for at least the next eight years and probably much longer.
Pro-choice, socially liberal, “Conservatives” are a small minority. There are far more Democrats who are troubled by their party’s position on abortion than Republicans.
The same is true , to an even greater extent, of homosexual marriage.
Even pro-infanticide, pro-partial birth abortion, pro “freedom of choice Act” Barack Obama felt the need to pretend to oppose gay marriage to get elected. Voters from ultra-Liberal California voted for the second time to ban gay marriage, this week.
Full, 3 point, Conservatives (i.e., Security, Economic, Social) do not need to pander to socially liberal “conservatives” to win their votes. All we need to do is get back to supporting true economic conservatives.
Given the choice between leftist Democrats who promote Socialist economic policies and weakening America’s national security, and strong security/economic/social conservatives who do think social Rino’s will vote for?
Are they really going to vote against their principles and self interst on national security and economic policy over the “right” to some theoretical abortion than most of them will never exercise?
Would Goldwater have voted for Obama?
Putting the pragmatic aspect aside, abortion is horrible evil and is non-negotiable.
It is properly a “litmus test” and should be, not only for the sake of protecting the unborn, but also because support for abortion speaks volumes about character and judgment.
If you don’t “get” that murdering an innocent, unborn child is wrong, I don’t trust you to “get it” on any issue.
>> it isn’t an act of love to punish a woman with what I believe is a poor choice, but a choice nonetheless.
Most conservatives would suggest the punishment of the Doctor — not the woman.
H
This is dumb, dumb, dumb.
No way in hell that fiscal conservatives or libertarians can win a race for dogcatcher without the support of social conservatives.
The only POSSIBLE solution is a coalition of both. Don’t drink the koolaid. Don’t split the movement.
Candidate x or candidate y? The answer is neither. We have to go out and look for candidate z, or we’re screwed.
Sarah Palin is a proven social conservative AND fiscal conservative, with a record as governor to prove it.
What’s wrong with that? Why do we have to choose between Giuliani and McCain? Well, mostly because the RNC was stupidly led and the Democrats chose our candidate for us.
As for Little Green Footballs, I hope they realize that they are doing the enemy’s work and come to their senses, because in the past they have been a pretty good website.
Don't like slavery? Don't own one.
Anyone who does not understand or rejects the primary purpose of law in the first place does not deserve to be entrusted with any government power. Those who betray the souls of the innocent over money will not stop at unleasing the same anarchy on you, too. You might be harder to kill right now than a preborn baby, but those wolves will inevitably turn their sights on you.
Cordially,
“People who are pro-choice should leave the party. They are Democrats and they don’t know it. “
so you would send a 90% republican packing? How would you treat a pro-life democrat? How badly do you want the republicans to win back the house, senate and POTUS? No one is ever going to be the PERFECT candidate - even Sarah herself. If she favors some sort of amnesty or govt health care for kids, would you dump her?
I will always stand by my words of: I would rather have a 70 to 90% republican president over any % democrat president. We do need to change, just a little and not be so quick to dismiss a potential win only becuase the candidate doesn’t 100% agree with us on every single issue.
I won't tell these pro-aborts to stay out of my conservative party.
But I also won't change the definition of "conservative" just to suit them. No more than I would change the definition of marriage.
Our political chances are zero if we nominate a pro-abortion Presidential candidate because even if he wins, we lose.
I was going to write a long dissertation on the subject but decided that more words are useless. The choice in this matter of abortion, homosexual rights and the like is clear to all and each of us who is possession of his or her mental faculties can make it.
I will never, ever vote for a candidate or party that thinks it is OK to destroy a significant percentage of every generation before they have taken even one breath. I will never, ever vote for a candidate or party that thinks it is OK to undermine institutions that have proven themselves over millenia just to satisfy the ardent wish of a tiny, twisted minority for - not just acceptance or recognition - but for dominance and the power to determine for the huge majority what is right or wrong.
I agree with this portion of your post. Now, since it also advocates putting in people that do not agree with them, how is making a home for dissidents going to improve this situation?
You're right. Without looking up the precise numbers, I beleive about 22-23% of the country polls as opposed to all abortion (mother's life aside), 25-26% want no restrictions, and just over 50% support some restrictions. Obviously that last group can be all over the place in terms of the restrictions they'd support. But if the GOP tells that 50% they're completely unwelcome, it's tough to win elections.
=
Death of the GOP and the spintering of the conservative movement.
You cite G. Ford, B Goldwater, and J McCain as examples of people the GOP should emulate.
Have you lost your mind?
The Religious Right did not stay home in 2008. From looking at exit polls and other statistics, the RINOS and the Fiscal Conservatives did. (Over the choice of a Conservative VP and the bailout respectively.)
>> Fiscal should come 1st, don’t like abortion, don’t have one, don’t like what’s on TV, DOn’t watch. All this should be a hearts and mind issue not a federal one.
That would be an untenable position for those that consider abortion the hostile taking of an innocent life. “Don’t like murder, don’t commit one” is not a logical position.
Generally speaking, the protection of innocent life is a legitimate government function. In this case, it may be a Federal government function (if 5th and 14th Amendments give right to life) or a State government function (even if 5th and 14th don’t, 10th gives the right of States to regulate that which is not addressed) — but it is nonetheless a legitimate function of government to ban abortions.
H
>> Without looking up the precise numbers, I beleive about 22-23% of the country polls as opposed to all abortion (mother’s life aside), 25-26% want no restrictions, and just over 50% support some restrictions. Obviously that last group can be all over the place in terms of the restrictions they’d support. But if the GOP tells that 50% they’re completely unwelcome, it’s tough to win elections.
Most of those supporting “some restrictions” are supportive of banning abortion except in cases of rape, incest or where the life of the mother is jeopardized. In that case, I would consider them pro-life ...
H
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