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Some See Big Problem in Wisconsin Drinking
The New York Times ^ | November 15, 2008 | DIRK JOHNSON AND GRANT JUNKIE

Posted on 11/17/2008 7:02:01 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084

When a 15-year-old comes into Wile-e’s bar looking for a cold beer, the bartender, Mike Whaley, is happy to serve it up — as long as a parent is there to give permission.

“If they’re 15, 16, 17, it’s fine if they want to sit down and have a few beers,” said Mr. Whaley, who owns the tavern in this small town in southern Wisconsin.

While it might raise some eyebrows in most of America, it is perfectly legal in Wisconsin. Minors can drink alcohol in a bar or restaurant in Wisconsin if they are accompanied by a parent or legal guardian who gives consent. While there is no state law setting a minimum age, bartenders can use their discretion in deciding whom to serve.

When it comes to drinking, it seems, no state keeps pace with Wisconsin. This state, long famous for its breweries, has led the nation in binge drinking in every year since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began its surveys on the problem more than a decade ago. Binge drinking is defined as five drinks in a sitting for a man, four for a woman.

People in Wisconsin are more likely than anywhere else to drive drunk, according to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health. The state has among the highest incidence of drunken driving deaths in the United States.

Now some Wisconsin health officials and civic leaders are calling for the state to sober up. A coalition called All-Wisconsin Alcohol Risk Education started a campaign last week to push for tougher drunken driving laws, an increase in screening for alcohol abuse at health clinics and a greater awareness of drinking problems generally.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: nannystate
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1 posted on 11/17/2008 7:02:02 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084
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To: SheLion; Gabz; 383rr; libertarian27; traviskicks; CSM; valkyrieanne; altura; TheKidster; ...

Big Brother, Nanny State, Grant Junkie, Bogus Study, Junk Science, Social Engineering, Egalitarian, Central Planning, Sheeple Control, Health Nazi, Socialism, Collectivism

This is an extremely low volume ping list. 6 per week max. To be added to or deleted from this ping list, please click one of the following:

Eric, you are a genius add me to your ping list or Eric, you are a jackass, take me off this ping list

To request that I stop using these gay html colors and fonts, please send me a private message below.

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Constitution of the Left Wing Nanny State of Liberals:

Picture courtesy of unixfox. All rights reserved. Copyright MMVII. Any use of the pictures descriptions or accounts of this ping without the express written consent of unixfox, Eric Blair, or Major League Baseball is strictly prohibited. Some restrictions apply. Ping not available in all states. For erections lasting longer than four hours, call the Guiness Book of World Records. Use only as directed.

Preamble:

We the People Sheeple of the United States Nanny State, in Order to form a more perfect Union Socialist Utopia, establish Justice Socially engineer a country of non smoking, physically fit, teetotalers, insure domestic Tranquility Smoking bans in bars, limits on unhealthy food and social drinking, provide for the common defense Universal Healthcare, promote the general Welfare health of the population whether they like it or not, in order to save above mentioned Universal Healthcare entitlement program from bankruptcy, and secure the Blessings of Liberty Dependency to ourselves progressive liberals and our Posterity Hitler Youth who we brainwash through public school education, do ordain decree and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Nanny State of Liberals.

2 posted on 11/17/2008 7:03:40 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
Coming from an Italian family, I was drinking at the age of 11. Wine with meals, unless it was my mother's homemade pizza, for which we all had beer.

It was no big deal. And it was why I never got into the experience of just getting drunk. It was good training for adulthood.

3 posted on 11/17/2008 7:06:43 PM PST by Publius
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To: Publius

Your personal experience sounds like that of most of the kids in largely German communities in central Texas.


4 posted on 11/17/2008 7:08:38 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

What a sensible law. More states should follow this example. I see nothing wrong with children drinking reasonable amounts of alcohol under their parents’ supervision.


5 posted on 11/17/2008 7:11:17 PM PST by pnh102 (Save America - Ban Ethanol Now!)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

He said state agencies would use a $12.6 million federal grant

stop spending my money.


6 posted on 11/17/2008 7:12:48 PM PST by TornadoAlley3 (Obama is everything Oklahoma is not.)
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To: TornadoAlley3
He said state agencies would use a $12.6 million federal grant stop spending my money.

Stop giving it to them.
7 posted on 11/17/2008 7:13:34 PM PST by aWolverine
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To: Eric Blair 2084

““On game days, a buddy of mine will come to the bar with his 2-year-old, his 8-year-old and his 10-year-old,” Mr. Whaley said. “He might get a little drunk. But his wife just has a few cocktails. It’s no big deal. Everybody has a good time.”

‘It’s no big deal’....wrong!....I don’t know what he means by getting a ‘little drunk’ but it’s a real big deal to drive home when you’re DUI....drunk driving is the most frequently committed violent crime in the United States....if you want to party, call a cab.


8 posted on 11/17/2008 7:15:00 PM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: Publius

I noticed this right off. In college, kids who had been allowed an occasional alcholic drink at home by their parents never got into the binge drinking thing.

Kids who were forbidden, the biggest binge drinkers.

I remember a friend of mine visiting was shocked that my parents’ liquor was out in the open and not in locked away. She said “Do they leave it out like that when they’re gone and you’re home alone?” Of course, they did, and none of us kids ever drank anything. It wasn’t because we were goody twoshoes ... it just never occured to us. We didn’t have to be sneaky.

In contrast, 3 out of 5 of my friend and her siblings, who grew up in a strict teetotaler household, are now alcholics.


9 posted on 11/17/2008 7:16:08 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Smoking, salt in NY, cupcakes at school parties … we will all be living in a cocoon of government nanny state control soon. (Shades of THX 1138) ;-)


10 posted on 11/17/2008 7:16:38 PM PST by doc1019 (We are now an Obamanation. Palin 2012)
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To: Army Air Corps

With the exception of the Brits, who have been binge drinkers since the invention of gin in the 1740’s, most Europeans understand the real place of alcohol in life, which is at the table at meals.


11 posted on 11/17/2008 7:16:46 PM PST by Publius
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Now I know why a good friend of mine growing up always wanted to spend his summer vacation at his uncles house in Wis.


12 posted on 11/17/2008 7:20:27 PM PST by diverteach (http://www.slapobama.com/)
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To: STONEWALLS
‘It’s no big deal’....wrong!....I don’t know what he means by getting a ‘little drunk’ but it’s a real big deal to drive home when you’re DUI....drunk driving is the most frequently committed violent crime in the United States....if you want to party, call a cab.

I'm drinking and driving right now. I'm also violating the law against texting while driving. What do you think of that?

13 posted on 11/17/2008 7:29:28 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Lorianne
Let me tell you a little story of my teenage years.

Forty years ago in South Jersey, there was tradition of paying an adult to go into a liquor store and buy a bottle of cheap red wine, aka "dago red". Upon getting the wine, the ringleader would tie a rope to it and immerse it in the lake at the county park to keep it chilled. Come the dark of a summer evening, the guys would go down to the "crick", as "creek" was pronounced in South Jersey, open up the bottle -- we didn't uncork it because it didn't have a cork -- and then the assembled multitude would get stinking drunk. And I mean "stinking". They would throw up for days afterward.

One night I received an invitation to join the festivities, and I demurred. I was immediately classified as a "pussy".

While my friends were getting eaten alive by Jersey mosquitoes (the state bird), I was home watching a late movie on TV ("Rio Bravo", I recall). I built myself a late night snack, taking some of my mother's leftover roast beef and making two sandwiches, backed up by pickles, olives and my mother's homemade roast peppers. I washed it all down with a couple of Schaefer's. ("Schaefer is the one beer to have when you're having more than one.") I did all this in the comfort of an air conditioned house.

The next day I ran into my friends. They were all throwing up intermittently and looked like they had been dined on by our local insects. But they were happy.

"What did I miss"?" I asked.

"We had a great time! I got so-o-o-o drunk!"

I just smiled at them.

14 posted on 11/17/2008 7:30:17 PM PST by Publius
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To: diverteach
Photobucket
15 posted on 11/17/2008 7:30:36 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: doc1019
Photobucket
16 posted on 11/17/2008 7:31:24 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
But can they smoke in the bar?

Image and video hosting by TinyPic
17 posted on 11/17/2008 7:35:26 PM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

“I’m drinking and driving right now. I’m also violating the law against texting while driving. What do you think of that?”

...I think you need to be arrested.


18 posted on 11/17/2008 7:35:32 PM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: Eric Blair 2084

4 drinks is binge drinking? Whatever!
I tell people that my son can go to a bar with me and drink if I give permission. It is rare when I do. They have trouble believing me. The funny part is these are people who live here!


19 posted on 11/17/2008 7:35:43 PM PST by ozaukeemom (Nuke the ACLU and their snivel rights)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

LOL!


20 posted on 11/17/2008 7:36:33 PM PST by doc1019 (We are now an Obamanation. Palin 2012)
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To: Publius

Yes! Ma - my Calabrese Nonna gave us wine at dinner - including when she made her own pizza (thick crust sheet style). I was amazed when my friends were so hell-bent on “scoring” 12-packs and drinking in the woods.

I concur, it was good training for the future!


21 posted on 11/17/2008 7:38:59 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Obama/Biden...change you can laugh at!)
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To: STONEWALLS
Photobucket
22 posted on 11/17/2008 7:41:44 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: pnh102

We used to buy my son a beer with dinner all the time when we lived in Neenah Wi. He learned it wasn’t a big deal or a wonderful “forbidden fruit”.


23 posted on 11/17/2008 7:41:58 PM PST by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Requiescat In Pace)
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To: STONEWALLS

Where’s the part of the story where he gets behind the wheel drunk?

Or are you just assuming that because he drinks, he’s a drunk driver?


24 posted on 11/17/2008 7:43:20 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("[Palin] has not even lived in the Lower 48 since 1987. Come on! Really!" --Polybius)
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To: GOPsterinMA

I remember drinking a glass of wine every year at the Christmas late night feast after mass as a teenager. A full stomach and a glass of wine....the most blissful sleep, couldn’t keep my eyes open.


25 posted on 11/17/2008 7:44:32 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Wow - you got vino after Mass?!?! At church or at home? The priest at my old church was a teetotler, but a great guy - Saturday Mass started at 4 pm, was done by 4:20 pm. As an altar buy, I was out the door by 4:30.

RIP Father C.!


26 posted on 11/17/2008 7:49:07 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Obama/Biden...change you can laugh at!)
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To: GOPsterinMA
Saturday Mass started at 4 pm, was done by 4:20 pm.

Ah, shor-an-begorra, ye've witnessed the legendary Irish Mass. Twenty minutes, in and out, and yer' ticket t'heaven's been punched. Me not-so-sainted father preferred the Irish Mass, taking the seat nearest the door to be in and out faster than the rest of the congregation. We cremated him when he died, and me sainted mither had the priest put the ashes right by the door for the mass.

27 posted on 11/17/2008 7:55:22 PM PST by Publius
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To: Eric Blair 2084

The age thing doesn’t bother me near as much as the drunk driving stats.


28 posted on 11/17/2008 7:56:47 PM PST by NinoFan
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To: STONEWALLS

The criteria for “drunk driving” have been constantly morphing since the entire concept was coded into law.

When “drunk driving “ laws were first enacted, there was little doubt that the discretion of the arresting officer was plenty of proof, and there were no hard limits. At this point in time, “over 70% of ALL accidents” were “caused” by drinking drivers.

Then a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.15 ml/lwas encoded as “THE” standard to determine whether one could safely operate a motor vehicle.

Lots of fines and suspensions, but this revenue stream started falling off as citizens adapted to and obeyed these restrictions.

Lo and Behold, the “drunk” bac is lowered to 0.10 ml/l! Suddenly, “drunk driving” is in a CRISIS situation again, and “drinking drivers” (if you had a glass of wine with dinner, you qualify) are at an all-time-high!!

Folks adapt to this newest “adjustment” of the criteria regarding alcohol levels in otherwise normal folks, and once again, the revenue stream from “those EEEEEVIL drinkers” falls off.

The “acceptable level” for BAC is once again dropped to 0.08 ml/l (HALF what it was originally!) and once again, the accident rate blamed on alcohol seems to spike.
However, if you read the fine print, you’ll notice that it is no longer “drunk driving” accidents, they are “alcohol involved” accidents.

If you read further into the information, it turns out that “alcohol involved” means that there was some alcoholic beverage IN one of the involved vehicles. Not open, nobody was drinking, but there was BOOZE NEARBY!!

Meanwhile, sheeple think that boozing is still a major cause of crashes. According to the NHTSA, DRUNK drivers are under 25% as a direct cause.

Save your pontificating, and stop enabling the leftist control freaks, even though you’re obviously a product of the public school system, and believed your teachers.


29 posted on 11/17/2008 7:57:03 PM PST by Don W (To write with a broken pencil is pointless.)
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To: Publius

Yes! Father C. was as Irish as a thick wool sweater!

Are you serious about putting your Dad’s ashes next to the door? That’s a little funny! :)


30 posted on 11/17/2008 8:00:18 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Obama/Biden...change you can laugh at!)
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To: GOPsterinMA

At home. We’re Orthodox and we have that Midnight Mass on January 6 every year. 1 am, you’re 14, it’s already 4 hours past bedtime, full stomach...glass of wine....zonked for 12 hours. No school the next day.


31 posted on 11/17/2008 8:04:15 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Don W
Exactly!

Its no coincidence that every time the standards for determining drunk driving are lowered, more drunk driving occurs. Just imagine how much drunk driving is going to take place when the bac standard is reduced to 0.0.

32 posted on 11/17/2008 8:05:35 PM PST by CharacterCounts (Wanted: Snappy, erudite tag line.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
Early drinking gives you a good idea of what your future holds. At 13, I had 7 of the 9 Warning Signs of Alcoholism.

The only reason I didn't have all 9 is because, as a kid, I wasn't married and didn't hold a full-time job. Finally got to AA a few decades later.
33 posted on 11/17/2008 8:06:19 PM PST by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: Don W
In case you haven't seen some of this....

Back Door to Prohibition: The New War on Social Drinking: A great piece by Radley Balko who is the editor of Cato.org and a columnist for FoxNews.com. Read his blog "The Agitator", it's great.

Let's have a toast! Now that the smelly smokers are gone from the bar, we can have a few pints without that annoying, stinky smell of tobacco smoke. We're fine. The Government never has and never will go after alcohol....NOT!

Behind the Neo-Prohibition Campaign The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation: The Center For Consumer Freedom will help to explain why non-smokers who like Sam Adams or Jimmy Beam have nothing to worry about. It's not as if RWJF, a key group behind the anti-tobacco crusade, has them in their sights. You can rest easy.

Colleges are reaching their limit on alcohol : You're in the stands watching the USC-UCLA game at the Rose Bowl. How about an ice cold beer? Bwa,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!! Not for you my friend. Don't be surprised when you go to the Ballpark to watch your favorite team in the future and find no beer for sale. Can't say I didn't warn you.

Single Glass of Wine Immerses D.C. Driver in Legal Battle: We all agree that the drunk driver with a .45 BAC who kills a family of 5 by plowing into them while going the wrong way down a highway should be put away for life. However, under the category of "this could be you", read this before you take a sip of wine at your cousin's wedding, especially if it happens to be in the capital of our great nation.

Arresting Drinkers...In Bars: Let me repeat this for maximum effect: Arresting Drinkers...In Bars.

Anheuser-Busch Urged to Abandon "Idiotarod" Beer Promotion :Anheuser-Busch should drop its sponsorship of a Washington, D.C. charity event called the "Idiotarod," organized by a local group that goes by the acronym "SMASHED," according to the nonprofit Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI). The March 3 event, in which young people are urged to acquire shopping carts and drink beer in one bar after another, is in clear violation of the Beer Institute's Advertising and Marketing Code, which prohibits marketing which encourages rapid or excessive beer drinking or drinking games, according to the group.

34 posted on 11/17/2008 8:08:16 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Thrownatbirth

Early signs? The only sign I got was that a glass of wine put me to sleep when I was a kid.


35 posted on 11/17/2008 8:10:24 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Sweet deal there! Good for you! No school the next day was the added bonus, no doubt.


36 posted on 11/17/2008 8:12:09 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Obama/Biden...change you can laugh at!)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Yep, this is the second “for your own good” article posted on FR today. The first one I saw(maybe there have been more than two but two is all I have seen Today)was about WVA and how fat people were in one particular area of WVA. The nanny state FReepers(how they can call themselves conservatives I will never know)came out is force! I am sure they will be on here justifying why we should jail everyone who ever drank a beer.


37 posted on 11/17/2008 8:13:12 PM PST by calex59
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To: CharacterCounts

If you’re seriously shopping for a tagline BTW, how about “1984 was supposed to be a work of fiction, not a how-to manual.”


38 posted on 11/17/2008 8:13:33 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: calex59; Gabz

I was going to post that one. Maybe I should ping it. Did Gabz do it already?


39 posted on 11/17/2008 8:15:01 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

I like it. I think I will use it. Thanks.


40 posted on 11/17/2008 8:18:42 PM PST by CharacterCounts (1984 was supposed to be a work of fiction, not a how-to manual.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

In the words of Lewis Black: “You are not alcoholics...you are professionals.”


41 posted on 11/17/2008 8:31:19 PM PST by CodeToad
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To: Eric Blair 2084

This is actually a very good policy. When I lived in WI, several families with teenage kids I knew had hard and fast rules. The kids would be allowed to drink in a bar with parent’s consent, but absolutely no where else. The whole issue was out on the table, kids got to see it was no big deal after a few times, they often ordered pop instead. But the sneaking around, fake IDs, and often DUI was avoided.

The problem with common sense is, it’s not very common!


42 posted on 11/17/2008 8:35:48 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Thrownatbirth
My beautiful smart 30 year old niece entered rehab for alcohol abuse yesterday. I hope 6 weeks is enough. Her parents always let her drink when she was a kid and when they divorced when she was 18, she already knew how to make it better.
43 posted on 11/17/2008 8:36:11 PM PST by Ditter
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To: Eric Blair 2084

I could go into a bar and order whatever I wanted in 76....I took up golfing in 1992...


44 posted on 11/17/2008 8:40:05 PM PST by hope (the socialist msm result is mind-numb O-bots)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Thanks for the ping!


45 posted on 11/17/2008 8:41:23 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Publius

Yeah? WHat about the russians? The poles? THe irish? THe swedes? The czechs? Am I missing anyone?


46 posted on 11/17/2008 8:41:41 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: Eric Blair 2084

when I was 16 I ordered a whisky manhattan with my mom and dad at a local supper club in Green Bay. The waitress was from out of state and at first refused — after talking to her manager I got my drink.  We’d also go to brunch after church on Sundays and get the best bloody marys for a buck.  Dad and I would have two with chasers, mom would have one and wouldn’t shutup the whole meal. It’s different in Wisconsin for sure. Beer is a necessity for most everything. It has its good and bad points.


47 posted on 11/17/2008 8:57:22 PM PST by model B (attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference -- W. C.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Typical NY Times elitism. They have no problem with underage Hollywood socialites bar-hopping and going out to the nightclubs.


48 posted on 11/17/2008 9:01:11 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: CodeToad

**“You are not alcoholics...you are professionals.”**

That’s why I’ve always referred to New Year’s Eve and St. Patrick’s Day as ... AMATEUR NIGHT!


49 posted on 11/17/2008 9:03:00 PM PST by gwilhelm56 (HITLER offered Hope and Change!!)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Whenever we visit in-laws in Baraboo, I never have to worry about where to get a cold one. I can say the same with certainty about Baltimore, Long Island and Pennsylvania.

Wish I could say the same about Virginia and North Carolina ..

Pass the Natty Boh

- Sea Jay


50 posted on 11/17/2008 9:04:38 PM PST by Seajay (Ordem e Progresso)
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