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Minnesota Senate Recount Day 4: Work Continues in Some Counties (Coleman +115, 60% reporting)
St. Paul Tribune ^ | Last update: November 22, 2008 - 12:12 PM | By KEVIN DUCHSCHERE

Posted on 11/22/2008 12:24:12 PM PST by lewisglad

The weekend isn't bringing any respite in the Minnesota Senate recount.

Ballots in the ultra-close race between Republican Norm Coleman and Democrat Al Franken are being counted in at least three counties today.

Fifty-three counties have reported complete results to the secretary of state, meaning fewer than three dozen remain. As of Friday night, at least 60 percent of the estimated 2.9 million ballots had gotten a second look.

Coleman entered the recount with a 215-vote edge over Franken. That lead has dropped to 115 votes when comparing totals in precincts where the new count is complete. But the figure doesn't include ballot challenges, which have caused vote tallies for both men to drop.

There have been 1,525 challenges between the campaigns, although some could be withdrawn before the Canvassing Board's Dec. 16 meeting.

In a high-ceilinged warehouse in northeast Minneapolis, the recount was carefully monitored by 52 volunteer observers for Coleman and 40 for Franken.

The work area was hushed, with little conversation as people focused on their work.

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: coleman; constitutionalcrisis; franken; mn2008
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1 posted on 11/22/2008 12:24:12 PM PST by lewisglad
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To: lewisglad

Ir ia “odd” that Coleman has never gained a single vote in the proceedings, it seems. Such is MN.


2 posted on 11/22/2008 12:25:38 PM PST by Theodore R. (The most frightening words in the English language: The American people!)
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To: Theodore R.
Democrats count until they get a winner. Should be interesting when the GOP counties start reporting in Monday whether Coleman will gain votes.

Stay tuned!

3 posted on 11/22/2008 12:27:48 PM PST by lewisglad
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To: Theodore R.

The counting won’t be completed until Franken has at least a 116 future vote gain no matter what or how long it takes.


4 posted on 11/22/2008 12:29:21 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Theodore R.
“odd” that Coleman has never gained a single vote in the proceedings, it seems.

Yeah, I have been anxiously awaiting the publication of one single vote being found for Coleman.

I'm afraid that this election bodes ill for there ever being an honest election in this country again.

5 posted on 11/22/2008 12:31:19 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Tagline on vacation during the grand experiment.)
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To: EGPWS

Expect 116 votes to ‘magically’ appear for Stuart Smalley before the GOP counties voters come in Monday. (while college football is on and no one is watching)


6 posted on 11/22/2008 12:31:57 PM PST by lewisglad
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To: Theodore R.

Kinda pulling for the lizard people myself.


7 posted on 11/22/2008 12:32:42 PM PST by cripplecreek (The poor bastards have us surrounded.)
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To: lewisglad

With so many challenged ballots, the canvassing board is going to end up deciding the election. I believe the board is split between parties, with the Democrat Acorn Sec of State as the tiebreaker in the event of a split...

I think Norm may as well clear out his senate desk now.


8 posted on 11/22/2008 12:33:36 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: lewisglad

As of 10 minutes ago the latest numbers show Coleman leading by 147 votes:

http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html


9 posted on 11/22/2008 12:34:49 PM PST by moose2004 (Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drill, Drll And Then Drill Some More)
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To: lewisglad

Here’s the link to an update. http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

Coleman is back up by 147, with 65% of votes counted. I am stunned to see Coleman has actually GAINED votes in Hennepin County.


10 posted on 11/22/2008 12:36:04 PM PST by ScottinVA (Gloucester County, VA -- Standing for America! 63% for McCain-Palin on 4 Nov)
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To: Theodore R.

If I had the power, I would demand a re-vote; no mail-in’s, you must appear in person. That may prove a bit interesting.

Jesus and Mary traveled for tax purposes, voters can travel to vote....military excepted.


11 posted on 11/22/2008 12:36:18 PM PST by Loud Mime (Good is Evil and Evil is now good. The alarm has rung.)
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To: Chet 99
The only good news is that 60% has come in and Coleman 'only' lost 105 votes of his 215 margin.

So its a razor thin victory for the GOP or the Rats are just trying to make it look fair

12 posted on 11/22/2008 12:36:52 PM PST by lewisglad
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To: Chet 99

Incorrect. The canvassing board consists of Ritchie, the Chief Justice, Justice Barry Anderson, and Judges Kathleen Gearin and Edward Cleary. Both Supreme Court Justices were appointees of Pawlenty, the Chief being his former law partner. Gearin was elected in a non-partisan election a number of years ago and Cleary was appointed by Ventura. Ritchie is a hack. The others are straight-shooters.


13 posted on 11/22/2008 12:38:18 PM PST by rot.com
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To: ScottinVA

What the heck? It looks like the Rat ballot stuffers slipped up somewhere.


14 posted on 11/22/2008 12:40:33 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: lewisglad

“The only good news is that 60% has come in and Coleman ‘only’ lost 105 votes of his 215 margin.”

Better news is that data is outdated, and Coleman now leads by 147, with 64% recounted.


15 posted on 11/22/2008 12:40:33 PM PST by ScottinVA (Gloucester County, VA -- Standing for America! 63% for McCain-Palin on 4 Nov)
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To: lewisglad

If Coleman comes out ahead on this recount, watch Franken demand another fresh recount. Then there will be the stacks of discarded ballots and “found” ballots he’ll sue to include. If Minnesota refuses to count them, Franken will take his case to the US Senate, which is the ultimate judge of elections per the Constitution.


16 posted on 11/22/2008 12:42:03 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: lewisglad

I am certain the counting will stop as soon as Franken gets a lead.


17 posted on 11/22/2008 12:42:58 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: lewisglad

What I find amazing here is that the two counties with the widest margins for Dems are the best turnarounds in Coleman’s favor. St Louis County = +19; and Hennepin County = +17.


18 posted on 11/22/2008 12:44:32 PM PST by ScottinVA (Gloucester County, VA -- Standing for America! 63% for McCain-Palin on 4 Nov)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

I remember Dino Rossi. He was ahead in like 2 or 3 counts? Then the Rat pulls ahead on the 4th count, and it was immediately game over, stop the counting, and she was sworn in.


19 posted on 11/22/2008 12:44:38 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: ScottinVA

Franken’s people are telling Mess-NBC that they have a different count and he was actually under 100 vote margin last night.


20 posted on 11/22/2008 12:45:21 PM PST by lewisglad
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To: Chet 99

I have a feeling Coleman will edge this one out. Whether or not he actually retains the seat is another question, assuming that Screamin’ Al files a lawsuit as soon as the count is done.


21 posted on 11/22/2008 12:50:02 PM PST by MNReaganite (Bobby Jindal for President)
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To: lewisglad
Franken’s people are telling Mess-NBC that they have a different count and he was actually under 100 vote margin last night.

Modern maths - it is all subjective.

;-)

22 posted on 11/22/2008 12:51:26 PM PST by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: rot.com

Thanks for the clarification. In that case, pay close attention to the number of ballot challenges. If the process is honest, I’d expect that the overwhelming number of challenges from both sides will be tossed. So if one side has more challenges than the other, that side will have fewer votes when the challenge process is completed.


23 posted on 11/22/2008 12:51:30 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: MNReaganite

In 1974, the Democrat controlled senate tossed the certified election results that had the Republican winning by 4 votes. A new election was held and the Democrat won.

In 1984, the Democrat controlled House threw out the certified results that had the Republican winning and instead awarded the election to the Democrat who lost. They didn’t even require a new election.


24 posted on 11/22/2008 12:53:08 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: MNReaganite
I have a feeling Coleman will edge this one out. Whether or not he actually retains the seat is another question, assuming that Screamin’ Al files a lawsuit as soon as the count is done.

It looks like the contested ballots will decide the recount. Even if Coleman wins the recount, Franken will file a lawsuit. The Democrats will not seat Coleman unless the result is clear. I doubt that the result will be clear with the contested ballots. I do not think that Coleman has a chance.

25 posted on 11/22/2008 12:54:44 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: lewisglad

“Franken’s people are telling Mess-NBC that they have a different count and he was actually under 100 vote margin last night.”

The first two words — “Franken’s people” — show why it isn’t to be believed. Besides, they were talking about the point in which 51.1% supposedly had been recounted. We’re at 65% and Coleman leads by 147. Good enough for me.


26 posted on 11/22/2008 12:55:58 PM PST by ScottinVA (Gloucester County, VA -- Standing for America! 63% for McCain-Palin on 4 Nov)
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To: lewisglad

Just once, I’d like to see a recount where the Republican candidate actually grows his lead over the cheating weasel that’s on the Democrat side.

Then I’d like it to happen every subsequent time. If Franken wins, Coleman needs to challenge each and every vote for Franken and demand that they be matched to actual living adults that are properly registered to vote.


27 posted on 11/22/2008 12:57:29 PM PST by Two Kids' Dad (((( Democrats are just a little lower than maggots and dung beetles in my estimation ))))
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To: Chet 99

I’d like to read about those, which seats were they?


28 posted on 11/22/2008 12:59:43 PM PST by Henchster (Free Republic - the BEST site on the web!)
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To: Two Kids' Dad

Either way, should this man be presiding over the recount?

http://minnesotademocratsexposed.com/MarkRitchieFrankenDFLFoundersDay.jpg


29 posted on 11/22/2008 12:59:59 PM PST by MNReaganite (Bobby Jindal for President)
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To: Henchster

http://indiana.typepad.com/fwob/2007/10/grief.html

Rick and I served in the Indiana House of Representatives together.

He ran for Congress in 1984 against Frank McCloskey in a race that came to give that Congressional District in southern Indiana the term the “Bloody Eighth.” After several recounts of that election - and after the State of Indiana certified Rick McIntyre as the winner - the US House of Representatives voted to declare McCloskey the winner.


30 posted on 11/22/2008 1:03:36 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: Chet 99
In 1984, the Democrat controlled House threw out the certified results that had the Republican winning and instead awarded the election to the Democrat who lost. They didn’t even require a new election.

Why would they require a new election. The "intent" of the voters was clear. Just because they unknowingly voted for the "Nasty Republican" doesn't mean that they really wanted the republican to win. We know they really wanted the "Good Democrat" to win, we know they did, so we must put aside your silly notions of "Will of the People". Only we know what the people want, and we will stick give it to them.

31 posted on 11/22/2008 1:06:41 PM PST by Blackhawk (God said it, I believe it, That settles it.)
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To: ScottinVA
corrected--Coleman's 'lost' 100 votes (with supposedly 60% remaining)

Franken's people are probably leaking these numbers to the Red Star in hopes of staying in the race...IMO

32 posted on 11/22/2008 1:08:43 PM PST by lewisglad
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To: lewisglad

I have no doubt that Democrats would swear in Caligula’s horse if it meant 60 votes, but sometimes I can’t help thinking that the thought of this clown sitting among these “illustrious” Senators has more than a few Dems nervous. I see a whole lot more Dems pulling for the Georgia seat than fighting for Franken. Don’t get me wrong-—they’ll take his vote. I just think they won’t cry very hard if he loses.


33 posted on 11/22/2008 1:09:30 PM PST by Mangia E Statti Zitto
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To: Mangia E Statti Zitto

“I have no doubt that Democrats would swear in Caligula’s horse if it meant 60 votes,”

Another reason to hope Chambliss wins on December 2nd - less incentive for them to go to the trouble of stealing Coleman’s seat.


34 posted on 11/22/2008 1:11:19 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: Chet 99

CBSNews: “Through Friday, figures reported by the secretary of state showed Franken volunteers had challenged 778 ballots; Coleman volunteers had challenged 747.”


35 posted on 11/22/2008 1:35:48 PM PST by StAnDeliver (Schadenfreude!)
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To: Chet 99
"In 1984, the Democrat controlled House threw out the certified results that had the Republican winning and instead awarded the election to the Democrat who lost. They didn’t even require a new election."

That was the late Frank McCloskey in the "Bloody Eighth", who was permanently sent packing in the '94 Gingrich Revoltion.

36 posted on 11/22/2008 1:39:48 PM PST by StAnDeliver (Schadenfreude!)
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To: cripplecreek

“Kinda pulling for the lizard people myself.”

Pulling for Franken-stein?
How much destruction of America are you looking for?
Seriously, I wish people would keep their masochistic fantasies to themselves.

And folks, lets have some confidence here. We didnt quake and cower when Bush went through this ... we simply stated it loud and clear. Bush won. Gore was a Sore Loserman.

COLEMAN WON. FRANKEN SHOULD CONCEDE. DONT LET FRANKEN CREATE A FARKEN’ THEFT OF THE ELECTION.


37 posted on 11/22/2008 1:41:12 PM PST by WOSG (STOP OBAMA'S SOCIALISM - Change we need: Replace the Democrat Congress)
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To: StAnDeliver

Yeah, but McCloskey won the next four election cycles after his “84 “win”. He clubbed McIntyre in the much-hyped re-match in ‘86 (political re-matches seldom live up to their hype), and was coasting along until the Gingrich juggernaut derailed him. The lesson is that ‘Rats are very, very hard to dig out once they get entrenched in office. If Franken steals this one, we’re going to be stuck with this clown in the Senate for a long, long time.


38 posted on 11/22/2008 1:47:58 PM PST by chimera
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To: Chet 99
Yes, and the ‘Rats “found” so-called “lost” batches of ballots something like ten or eleven separate times in heavily-’Rat King County. They kept “finding” all of these “lost” votes until the ‘Rat (Fraudoire) had enough (129 “votes”) to claim a “win”. Of course, then it was all “concede graciously” and “come together” and “accept the ‘will’ of the ‘majority’”. Well, at least Rossi never gave the ‘Rats the satisfaction of conceding.
39 posted on 11/22/2008 1:52:17 PM PST by chimera
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To: lewisglad
This theft (or attempted theft) of an election is a vivid example of the unprincipled nature of the Democratic Party.

What they, the Dems, might not understand is that this is their lot in politics forever more.

Even if they get their collectivist Utopia, they will have to cheat, cover-up, silence critics, lie, accuse, and blame for ever.

You would think at least some of them would get tired of fraud, deceit and covering up.

.

40 posted on 11/22/2008 1:55:18 PM PST by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: MNReaganite

If Coleman does edge this out, the Marxocrats will be screaming that he stole the election


41 posted on 11/22/2008 1:57:46 PM PST by Fred Hayek (Leftism is a mental disorder)
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To: lewisglad

The Somali Muslims that this administration seemes hell bent on letting into the country voted unanimously for their boy Franken...but their pirate buddy votes have yet to be counted.


42 posted on 11/22/2008 2:16:33 PM PST by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! +)
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To: lewisglad

Everyone is interpreting these recount numbers incorrectly.

Franken’s gains are NOT the result of new votes being “found” - there are a trivial number of “undervotes” being found. Virtually all of the changes in the counts are a result of votes being temporarily removed from the tallies of both Coleman and Franken due to challenges.

It’s just that Coleman is having more votes “removed” than Franken - probably almost entirely due to Franken challenges. When a ballot is challenged, it is temporarily removed from the count. So the changes in the official tallies don’t really mean too much - it’s all about the final dispensation of the challenged ballots which have been removed from the count temporarily.

Here are the numbers. So far, Coleman’s official vote count has decreased by 603 votes, and Franken’s official vote count has decreased by 535 votes for a net “gain” to Franken of 68 votes. (215 lead - 68 Franken gain = 147 current Coleman lead)

However, at the same time, Coleman has challenged 860 ballots and Franken has challenged 868 ballots. All of these have been temporarily removed from the counts.

When the recount is over, all of the challenged ballots will be reviewed by the canvassing board and decisions made.

One should assume that if a candidate challenges a ballot, it’s because it otherwise would have been interpreted in a way unfavorable to that candidate.

Therefore, whoever has the MOST challenges is likely to do WORSE with the challenged ballots. i.e., chances are that most of the Franken challenges will go to Coleman, and that most of the Coleman challenges will go to Franken.

Right now, having done all the math, I would rather be sitting in Coleman’s position than Franken’s. If trends hold, Coleman will end the recount with a lead of 25-75 votes (my over-under is 50), with most of the challenges having been made by Franken.

Since most challenges will have been made by Franken, the presumption mustt be that they will break for Coleman, unless Coleman has been challenging ballots on significantly more liberal and frivolous grounds than Franken.

This is unlikely, therefore Franken’s lead will probably not decrease.

I predict a Coleman win by 50 votes.

Also, the process seems to be running very fairly and smoothly, so let’s not behave like moonbats and truthers with their conspiracy theories. Let’s let these people do their jobs. Everyone is being watched closely and I expect a very fair result.


43 posted on 11/22/2008 2:22:10 PM PST by ex-Libertarian
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: lewisglad

Good lord. Why keep these stupid paper ballots. Even my supposedly backwards state of LA has a system where no identifying marks, stray lines or finger smudges can lead to “confusion” about a voters intent. Obviously there are too many dopes in MN who can’t figure out how to mark a “scan tron” ballot. Ours has a plastic covered paper overlay where you press the candidates name and a yellow X appears next to the name. then press the Cast Vote button and you’re done. Simple.


45 posted on 11/22/2008 2:37:59 PM PST by Round 9
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To: ScottinVA

You mean that for the first time Coleman gained??? That must be a misprint!


46 posted on 11/22/2008 2:40:06 PM PST by Round 9
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To: FJB2

If you think e-voting is the “better” way— you just might be the “dope”


47 posted on 11/22/2008 2:40:33 PM PST by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH....Archimedes)
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To: eeevil conservative

It’s not e-voting.


48 posted on 11/22/2008 2:48:30 PM PST by Round 9
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Coleman now up 149


49 posted on 11/22/2008 2:50:34 PM PST by Chet 99
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To: Two Kids' Dad

That tends not to happen because republican voters are more competent than their democratic counterparts.


50 posted on 11/22/2008 2:53:29 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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