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Wind Energy Reaches 43 Percent Of Spain's Electrical Demand
North American Windpower ^ | 11/25/2008

Posted on 11/25/2008 9:55:16 AM PST by Uncledave

Wind Energy Reaches 43 Percent Of Spain's Electrical Demand by NAW staff on Tuesday 25 November 2008

At 5 a.m. Central European Time (CET) on Nov. 24, wind power reached a new record of meeting 43% of Spain's electricity demand - with 9,253 MW of wind energy in operation - of the 21,264 MW total demand.

The previous record was broken March 22 at 6 p.m. CET, with 40.8% of the demand, or 9,862 MW. At 12:30 p.m. CET on Nov. 24, 10,263 MW were being produced simultaneously. The previous record of 10,880 MW of wind production was reached on April 18 at 4:50 p.m. CET, representing 30% of the peninsula's demand.

According to La Asociacion Empresarial Eolica, wind energy prices could drop to 6 euros per MWh. Wind energy has experienced a savings of 2.077 billion euros for the electrical system (4.50 euros of savings per citizen).

SOURCE: La Asociacion Empresarial Eolica


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: energy; windpower
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To: PGR88

Denmark produces about 20% of their power with wind.


41 posted on 11/25/2008 12:34:37 PM PST by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave; RedStateRocker; Dementon; eraser2005; Calpernia; DTogo; Maelstrom; Yehuda; babble-on

Don’t have anything against wind or any other type of viable energy source, but to get a better picture I’d like to know:

1. What is the total installed wind energy capacity for Spain?

2. Per KW of wind energy installed, how much conventional capacity do they have (or should have) on standby to back this up for when the wind don’t blow?

3. How much conventional fuel are they burning to keep the conventional generators spinning while on standby?


42 posted on 11/25/2008 1:48:28 PM PST by aquila48
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To: Uncledave

“Millions of vehicles plugging in at night will be a robust and decentralized storage system and will greatly improve the economics of wind energy.”

How do you come to that conclusion? What if the wind isn’t blowing tonight?

For a storage system to be reliable it has to be there and have enough capacity when the wind blows. Cars recharging at night is just another usage and to think of it as storage is invalid.


43 posted on 11/25/2008 1:57:27 PM PST by aquila48
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To: MarkeyD

Rapid cycling up and down isn’t possible or desirable with a nuclear plant. Too much stress in expansion and contraction with changing temperatures, changing pressure. Doing this will dramatically shorten the lifespan of a nuclear plant. They usually take quite some time to shut them down for refueling. Several days I think.

I am not a nuclear expert by any means, but I’m sticking with my theory.


44 posted on 11/25/2008 2:10:37 PM PST by listenhillary (No representation without taxation! ~~ Mark Steyn)
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To: Saberwielder
Wind is unreliable and cannot be more than a small fraction of US supply given our grid requirements. Too much wind power in a grid will cause it to crash. Ideally we sshould have nuclear power covering majority of the baseload and a few gas plants taking care of the peak demand.

I agree about nuclear power, but do not agree about wind power crashing the grid. It does call for more backup, but that would be with existing plants that would operate at reduced power and it would still result in a savings of fossil fuel.

I am at a loss why folks here want to trash wind power. It's not good everywhere in the country, but in the midwest it can generate a lot of power and save fossil fuel for the country.

45 posted on 11/25/2008 2:15:50 PM PST by billva
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To: padre35

Let’s not forget that it MUST be dual infrastructure. Wind and whatever else they will use when the wind does not blow.


46 posted on 11/25/2008 2:21:36 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Uncledave

I thought the earlier thread said 55% was made up of Wave Energy?


47 posted on 11/25/2008 4:10:10 PM PST by tubebender (Retirement...The art and science of Killing time before it Kills you...)
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To: billva
You need to ask the Bonneville Power Authority about that. They had a near melt down of the NW Grid this year when the wind suddenly came up and kicked up idle wind mills and BPA had to dump water to prevent a overload. We found out at that time that the wind generators had preference even though it cost several cents a KW more than Hydro...
48 posted on 11/25/2008 4:28:13 PM PST by tubebender (Retirement...The art and science of Killing time before it Kills you...)
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To: tubebender
You need to ask the Bonneville Power Authority about that. They had a near melt down of the NW Grid this year when the wind suddenly came up and kicked up idle wind mills and BPA had to dump water to prevent a overload. We found out at that time that the wind generators had preference even though it cost several cents a KW more than Hydro...

Perhaps, but the grid has other problems from time to time also and designs changes can be made to compensate.

Wind can and should have a prominent place in our power future.

49 posted on 11/25/2008 6:02:39 PM PST by billva
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To: billva

Make all the changes to the grid you want but but someone must be on the other end using it or you have a overload...


50 posted on 11/25/2008 11:02:06 PM PST by tubebender (Retirement...The art and science of Killing time before it Kills you...)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Who? Al Gore?


51 posted on 11/26/2008 12:00:59 AM PST by Stayingawayfromthedarkside
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To: ConservativeMind

Sounds like BS to me!


52 posted on 11/26/2008 12:38:50 AM PST by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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To: Sharrukin

thanks!


53 posted on 11/26/2008 12:40:42 AM PST by dennisw (Never bet on Islam! ::::: Never bet on a false prophet!)
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To: fireforeffect

Spain is less developed than Tennessee...... and if we could just send them Algore for keeps they could be happy that way.


54 posted on 11/26/2008 12:44:17 AM PST by Enchante (Thanks, Mediascum, you "elected" your candidate and now the country will pay....)
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To: Sharrukin

yes but the main dependance on imports is for transportation fuels - electricity in the USA is produced almost entirely by coal (#1), nuclear (20%), and natural gas (largely from US and Canada).....

so the real “dependency” issue comes down to when/if we can move away from imported oil sources for transportation fuels..... which depends upon whether economic and technical issues can be resolved for electric or hydrogen cars, etc.

Definitely I think we should use FAR more nuclear power to generate electricity, but that doesn’t really get at the OPEC issues, it’s more to the question of whether we can/should use less coal (which we have in great abundance).


55 posted on 11/26/2008 12:52:47 AM PST by Enchante (Thanks, Mediascum, you "elected" your candidate and now the country will pay....)
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To: Enchante

Of course a trillion dollar question is how much more transportation can/should/will be electrified in the next 5, 10, 20 years, etc. I really don’t know, but I do believe that the Democrats should not be controlling such decisions and economic processes.


56 posted on 11/26/2008 1:03:54 AM PST by Enchante (Thanks, Mediascum, you "elected" your candidate and now the country will pay....)
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To: tubebender
Make all the changes to the grid you want but but someone must be on the other end using it or you have a overload...

Overloads can be handled in short order. Units can be powered up and down, I am sure that windmills either can have their blades feathered to not generate as much load or at some point in time that can be designed.

No matter the barriers they can be handled and still save fossil fuel.

Which in the long run is a benefit to all of us.

57 posted on 11/26/2008 5:17:35 AM PST by billva
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To: Stayingawayfromthedarkside
How did you know? LOL.
58 posted on 11/26/2008 7:20:18 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit.)
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To: Koblenz
Nuclear and wind don’t mix well

As you said, a nuclear plant does not cycle well. If we were forced to try this, we would see a lot of scrams and blackouts.

Unfortunately, large baseload coal plants can rival the size of nuclear plants and don't fare well with this either. Such coal plants operate at 1000F or hotter. Rapid load changes on a frequent and recurring basis will cause rapid thermal swings with cracking and damage to the boiler and turbine. Fossil plants are intended to run at stable loads with any load changes taken gradually under controlled circumstances.

The best bet to serve as backups to wind turbines are natural gas turbines. They are designed for rapid starting and loading.

59 posted on 11/26/2008 4:15:49 PM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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To: billva
Wind can and should have a prominent place in our power future.

Why should it have a prominent place?

The real answer is, it should have an appropriate place in our power future.

The level to which wind or solar power plays a role should NOT be in the hands of politicians or enviro-mental nut cases. It should be in the hands of people who understand the grid, and the issues surrounding load and power generation.

As far as I am concerned, engineers need to take back the energy issue from the crazies before it is too late.

60 posted on 11/26/2008 4:24:28 PM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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