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Beware Birth Certificate Hopefuls - You are in for quite a suprise (vanity)

Posted on 12/03/2008 8:14:35 AM PST by Scythian

This birth certificate issue has been going on for some time now and for those hoping for some kind of dramatic outcome you are in for another big disappointment.

First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen.

Second, enough time has passed such that the Obama cult has manufactured and installed a phony certificate that will re-route us back up to option 1 above, he will have a valid certificate. Who do you think works in these kinds of government offices? They're all democrats.

Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

=================================

Flame on, and sorry for the Vanity, but this is driving me nutz, this issue gets my hopes up but then common sense dashes my hope on the rocks, and this now is a daily occurrence. You are going to find a valid certificate at the end of this road if you are lucky enough to get a judge to demand it, and that is very unlikely, whether the certificate be real or phony it won't matter, and will never be able to proven either way.


TOPICS: US: Hawaii; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; constitution; obama; obamatransitionfile; obamatruthfile; whathospital
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1 posted on 12/03/2008 8:14:35 AM PST by Scythian
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To: Scythian

Here is a fourth. Even if Obama was found to be born in Kenya to an American Mother, I would bet that Pelosi would call a special session and pass an emergency bill to change the four year residency requirement for one parent, retroactively, thus, recognizing Obama’s citizenship by way of his mother.


2 posted on 12/03/2008 8:16:26 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Scythian

You are probably correct. The Constitution is nothing but toilet paper.


3 posted on 12/03/2008 8:17:52 AM PST by dynachrome (Barack Hussein Obama yunikku khinaaziir)
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To: Scythian

finally!!!!! someone that gets it...100% agree.


4 posted on 12/03/2008 8:18:06 AM PST by devane617 (...And to the Republic For Which It Stood...)
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To: Scythian

The larger possibility is that Oba Mao has a valid certificate and just wants to prove he is bigger than the constitution by refusing to show it. A clear majority of his rubberstamps in congress will go along with it.


5 posted on 12/03/2008 8:18:14 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: mnehrling

We want to be proven wrong. Show us the BC.


6 posted on 12/03/2008 8:18:34 AM PST by hsrazorback1 (Seek truth.)
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To: mnehrling

Well aren’t you just spreading sunshine today?


7 posted on 12/03/2008 8:18:39 AM PST by dinodino ( Mrs. Dinodino)
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To: dynachrome

Of course Congress doesn’t care because with the New visitor center at the Capitol they no longer have to Smell us peasants when we come begging for our entitlements...


8 posted on 12/03/2008 8:19:30 AM PST by tomnbeverly (Doing time on the Obama Plantation.)
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To: Scythian

“First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen”

Here’s the problime I have with that:

What candidate in his right mind would have/know of such a document and shilly shally about presenting it?


9 posted on 12/03/2008 8:20:10 AM PST by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else" Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: mnehrling
an emergency bill to change the four year residency requirement for one parent

Citizenship by that route, yes, theoretically, but natural-born citizenship?
10 posted on 12/03/2008 8:20:13 AM PST by Genoa
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To: mnehrling

There’s this sticky little thing called an “ex post facto” law, that is also forbidden under the Constitution.


11 posted on 12/03/2008 8:20:26 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: dynachrome
Photobucket

12 posted on 12/03/2008 8:20:43 AM PST by Dick Bachert
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To: mnehrling
to change the four year residency requirement for one parent, retroactively

Ex Post Facto

13 posted on 12/03/2008 8:20:44 AM PST by Las Vegas Ron (When homo's can procreate - then they can get married)
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To: dynachrome
The challenge with this is the Constitution doesn't specifically state what defines a natural born citizen. Article 1, section 8 leaves that up to the Legislative branch to determine the definition of. That definition has changed several times over our history. Thus, my scenario #4 posted above.
14 posted on 12/03/2008 8:21:23 AM PST by mnehring
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To: dinodino

I’m not a sunshine spreader, I am a skeptic about everything. :->


15 posted on 12/03/2008 8:22:09 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Scythian
Beware Birth Certificate Hopefuls - You are in for quite a suprise (vanity)

Can I take someone seriously who can't spell "surprise" or use a spell check?

16 posted on 12/03/2008 8:22:12 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Just your average "Whitey" - clinging to my guns and religion [and The Constitution])
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To: Scythian

What your vanity is ignoring is the fact that the Donofrio case at SCOTUS doesn’t care at all about the birth certificate. It focuses on the fact that his father was not an American at the time of his birth. This makes him ineligible under the Natural born Citizen provision.


17 posted on 12/03/2008 8:22:24 AM PST by LongIslandConservative
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To: Scythian

“...no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen.”

Maybe you’re right. Perhaps not. IMO, the SCOTUS ought to take this bull by the horns, do what they’re paid to do, and set a precedent for the certification of Presidential qualifications.


18 posted on 12/03/2008 8:22:39 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: Scythian

> Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn’t have to prove he didn’t commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

Surely to prove its case the Prosecution should be allowed to call into evidence his records from Hawaii? After all, they are Government property and not the personal property of His Excellency. That alone should be decisive.

As to retroactive legislation, I was under the distinct impression that the Constitution trumped the Senate and indeed the President and the Supreme Court. Or is the Constitution just for decoration these days?

If Pelosi gets to walk on your Constitution on this matter, bags I that His Excellency will try to take your guns away. After all, the Second Amendment will by then be only for decoration, too.


19 posted on 12/03/2008 8:22:57 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Scythian

If this is an arrogance issue by Zer0, which I do not think it is, then he is not fit to be the leader of my local trash collection company, much less the country:

And by the way, maybe when he does show his BC, he can also take the time to show WE THE PEOPLE the following:

Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Not Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Released - Proven Counterfeit
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport (Pakistan) — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, Not Signed)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None (Locked up to prohibit public view
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost (All other Illinois state senators’ records are intact)
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None


20 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:02 AM PST by IrishPennant (He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.)
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To: Scythian

No reason to flame you. I hope you are wrong on all points.

Sad that you find the need to post a baseless POS like this.

Let’s hope the rule of law is a valid hope to hold.

But with 41 we can slow him down and I’m sure that upsets you.


21 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:10 AM PST by stockpirate (United Socialist States of America- USSA. Prepare for the Final Solution.)
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To: SMARTY
What candidate in his right mind would have/know of such a document and shilly shally about presenting it?

One who has something else besides birthplace on it that he doesn't want known?
22 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:12 AM PST by Genoa
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To: hsrazorback1

YES.......show the birth certificate so the people can decide. Let it be examined. The same with the Selective Service document. What has been stated above but do the people just give up. Remember, this country went up against the best military in the world with squirel guns and won and established our own country. Our Constitution is either real or not. Either you stand up or sit down and let others run your life.


23 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:18 AM PST by RC2 (Where is Obama's Birth Certifacte?)
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To: mnehrling

That’s the one I’m hoping four. Barry would spend the next four years with half the country rightfully calling him an illegitimate president. Every move he made would be diminished and scorned as illegal. Republicans could figuratively spit in his face and only brain dead libs would whine about it.

Yeah, I think you are right, I just think you underestimate the backlash.


24 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:25 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: Scythian
the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

That's ju-jitsu.

If you accuse me of murder, you have to prove it before I can be sent to prison. That's true.

If I want to borrow $10M from my bank, using my chain of hotels as collateral, I do have to prove that I own a chain of hotels. The burden is not on the bank to prove that I don't. That would be asking the bank to prove a negative, which cannot be done.

25 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:27 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: SMARTY

I’m not saying he is a citizen, I’m just saying it will never come to pass for the three options I listed above. Whether we are right or not, it doesn’t matter, the law is not on our side, and enough time has passed that you can bet there is a certificate there waiting now to make fools of everyone ... After this, what kind of charge could anyone level against him in the next 8 years? Obama holds all the cards on this one.


26 posted on 12/03/2008 8:23:36 AM PST by Scythian
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To: RegulatorCountry

Great point!!!


27 posted on 12/03/2008 8:24:03 AM PST by IrishPennant (He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.)
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To: mnehrling

Here is a fifth: Tha Dalai Bama has a valid birth certificate but his name is Davis.


28 posted on 12/03/2008 8:24:42 AM PST by csmusaret (I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse than have a brother in the US Congress.)
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To: Scythian

The Supremes have stated they will review this on the 5th. IMO, they are not going to give Obama a pass on his birth status.

There are times when our nation comes off as a banana republic, and this is one of them. Why are federal candidates not required to perform some right of registration, eliminating the unqualified individuals at the beginning of the process? At the very least, the states who run these elections should have federal candidates prove they are qualified to be on the ballot.


29 posted on 12/03/2008 8:24:49 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Okay lefties... the problem with wanting something, is that you sometimes get it. Good luck now!)
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To: Scythian
First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen.

I would be just FINE IF this is the case, and would wonder why all this high drama Bama put so many through keeping that birth certificate hidden. None of this would be going on had he made it part of his campaign. Especially after all the ragging sense of the Senate done over lord McCain's birth certificate.

30 posted on 12/03/2008 8:26:03 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: mnehrling

Any interpretation of natural born citizenship specifically pertaining to the individual known as Barack Hussein Obama, will be bound by the laws in effect at his birth. Changing the law after the fact in an attempt to alter that is unconstitutional. It would also make him a citizen by statute, which is not a natural born citizen, so any effort would be legally pointless.


31 posted on 12/03/2008 8:26:16 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Scythian
Second, enough time has passed such that the Obama cult has manufactured and installed a phony certificate that will re-route us back up to option 1 above, he will have a valid certificate. Who do you think works in these kinds of government offices? They're all democrats.

And there is a vault copy in the governor's office that can be retrieved under subpoena.

Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.

Wrong, you must prove your job qualifications. This is not a criminal matter, this is a Constitutional matter.

If he pulls out a valid BC that survives comparison with the governor's copy, then my worries about a coup are mostly put to rest. He just becomes another stinking democrat.

32 posted on 12/03/2008 8:26:24 AM PST by Centurion2000 (To protect and defend ... against all enemies, foreign and domestic .... by any means necessary.)
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To: DoughtyOne

I don’t think the founders ever envisioned that a man so bereft of honor would make it to the Presidency.


33 posted on 12/03/2008 8:26:53 AM PST by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Ex Post Facto

Ex post facto is generally accepted to mean making something illegal which was legal when it was done. Congress can, and often doesn pass laws that take place retroactively. A prime example would be the recent law which protected the telecom companies from prosecution for providing call information to Homeland Security.

34 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:06 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Scythian
First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen.

I honestly hope there is. Really. I don't/didn't want an Obama Presidency but that's what The People wanted apparently, for better or for worse. ACORN issues a different story.

If he can produce it, and it's legitimate of course there is the question of why he didn't bother forking over the $10 to get it instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend something that for a normal person would be a null issue. Judgment issues that will come back to haunt him later, and I hope SCOTUS dresses him down for that poor judgment call.

35 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:12 AM PST by Domandred (Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.)
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To: devane617

Yes, Of course we won’t need to see any proof of anything when it comes to the Annointed One. We should all believe in the power of CHANGE... The Messiah walks above the law, why should he care about proof.

Of course we common folks are held to a much higher standard then his holiness. i.e., try to get a drivers license without showing your BC next time and just say well the President does it


36 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:14 AM PST by tomnbeverly (Doing time on the Obama Plantation.)
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To: Scythian

If the guys/gals at the Federalist Blog http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html are correct, it doesn’t matter whether he was born in the U.S.A or not. Kenyan citizenship transferred to him from his Kenyan father at birth. Their reading of the situation is that this would make him ineligible to be considered a “natural born citizen” under the constitution.

He would, at that point, have been declared ineligible by the document posted on his campaign website. Would that not be ironic?


37 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:20 AM PST by Larry - Moe and Curly
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To: RegulatorCountry
Ex post facto regulations may not always apply to non-criminal matters.
38 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:40 AM PST by stimulant
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To: Scythian

The big issue here is whether the SC has any respect for the Constitution. We know that four justices do. As for the others, well, we can always hope that one will have some kind of epiphany.


39 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:41 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Centurion2000

When I had to fill out the I9 requirements for employment, I didn’t have the luxury of saying

“you have to prove me ineligible or just accept my word.”


40 posted on 12/03/2008 8:27:46 AM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: RegulatorCountry

Ex Post Facto refers to criminal law, not simple legal definitions or standards. The Ex Post Facto ruling on Canal Zone citizenship is what gave McCain ‘natural born citizenship’ status re 8 U.S.C. §1403 which retroactively recognized canal zone citizenship. (the bill, passed in 1952 was made retroactive to Feb, 1904)


41 posted on 12/03/2008 8:28:00 AM PST by mnehring
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To: hsrazorback1

Amen!!


42 posted on 12/03/2008 8:28:45 AM PST by waxer1 ( Live Free or Die)
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To: Scythian; All

Does anyone still have the link to the Hawaii birth certificate from c. 1961 (not Barack’s) that shows what kind of information was included? I saw one several weeks ago on FR.


43 posted on 12/03/2008 8:29:42 AM PST by Genoa
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To: Scythian

we have already proven he is nt a citizen, with his own statements, his own autobiography, and his own grandmothers statements


44 posted on 12/03/2008 8:30:50 AM PST by RaceBannon (We have sown the wind, but we will reap the whirlwind. NObama. Not my president.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

“Ex Post Facto”

Well, I think that only prohibits criminalizing behavior that wasn’t criminal at the time, so I don’t think it would apply.


45 posted on 12/03/2008 8:31:49 AM PST by Castigar
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To: Scythian
I see no new facts here just your opinion so I'll add my own opinion.

The fact that the MSM is now starting to cover this is very interesting. I thought this subject was not worthy before the election, there were other more important issues. Now that he's won let's see if it's a legitimate victory. Even if we lose this battle his administration will be tainted by scandal before it even begins.

It would be so easy for Obama to end this by just waving it at a press conference. The fact that he had many opportunities and hasn't makes me think there really is something rotten in Denmark.

46 posted on 12/03/2008 8:32:03 AM PST by McGruff
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To: Republic of Texas

I would agree with that. I would also say that they never envisioned a free press that would so loathe this nation that it would sell it’s own soul to make sure an unqualified man like this would be elected.


47 posted on 12/03/2008 8:32:05 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Okay lefties... the problem with wanting something, is that you sometimes get it. Good luck now!)
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To: Genoa
Photobucket
48 posted on 12/03/2008 8:32:09 AM PST by IrishPennant (He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.)
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To: Scythian

Im on the same page like you.

I still have “nightmares” as to how we were duped by that API-Michelle tape.

At the end of this whole drive, we might just be set up as MOONBATS.

The more I step back and review all these issues, the more I see the risks ahead.

For me, its all down to SCOTUS on Friday. If SCOTUS punts and dismisses the cases, thats a huge sign that this was all for nothing.


49 posted on 12/03/2008 8:32:14 AM PST by texas12joe
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To: dinodino

our constyitution states the followng:

YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

its not the RATS/Obama to prove their “citizenship qualifications”.

its for us/you to prove “they are not”.

Scythan, I agree 100% with you.


50 posted on 12/03/2008 8:32:14 AM PST by texas12joe
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