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Skip to comments.An Ugly Attack on Mormons
Posted on 12/03/2008 8:59:31 AM PST by Publius804
An Ugly Attack on Mormons
The easiest targets for an organized campaign against religious freedom of conscience.
By Jonah Goldberg
Did you catch the political ad in which two Jews ring the doorbell of a nice working-class family? They barge in and rifle through the wifes purse and then the mans wallet for any cash. Cackling, they smash the daughters piggy bank and pinch every penny. We need it for the Wall Street bailout! they exclaim.
No? Maybe you saw the one with the two swarthy Muslims who knock on the door of a nice Jewish family and then blow themselves up?
No? Well, then surely you saw the TV ad in which two smarmy Mormon missionaries knock on the door of an attractive lesbian couple. Hi, were from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! says the blond one with a toothy smile. Were here to take away your rights. The Mormon zealots yank the couples wedding rings from their fingers and then tear up their marriage license.
As the thugs leave, one says to the other, That was too easy. His smirking comrade replies, Yeah, what should we ban next? The voice-over implores viewers: Say no to a church taking over your government.
Obviously, the first two ads are fictional because no one would dare run such anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim attacks.
The third ad, however, was real. It was broadcast throughout California on Election Day as part of the effort to rally opposition to Proposition 8, the initiative that successfully repealed the right to same-sex marriage in the state.
What was the reaction to the ad? Widespread condemnation? Scorn? Rebuke? Tepid criticism?
The Los Angeles Times, a principled opponent of Proposition 8, ran an editorial lamenting that the hard-hitting commercial was too little, too late.
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
Doctrines & Covenants - not found in the Bible; are THEY important?
I'm not mincing with words! I'm not going to dance around the fact that Mormonism is false with obtuse circumlocutions. Language should be clear and direct. If the word heresy is offensive then the truth is offensive.
I'm not offended by the fact that Mormons think I'm a heretic. I'm not offended by the fact that Muslims think I'm an infidel. I'm not offended by the fact that atheists think I'm deluded for believing in any type of a higher power.
Praise God that He found you. Now, as you are the Prodigal Son, surely you should know better. Had Christians gone out of their way to label you as a Wicked Damned Unrepentent Sinner Wallowing in Sin (as all atheists are) how likely would you have been to want to become a Christian?
The world hates righteousness, and when I was a part of the world I hated righteousness too.
Can you please clarify? I don’t understand your post.
We have no need to read it; for our Teachers tell us what it means!
--MormonDude(I got almost straight A's in class!)
“Lets not hijack the thread on to mormon doctrine.
The origional add was false and it was not ONLY mormons who voted for Prop 8 but many Christians and non Christians who knew homo marriage was just wrong. After all, 40 years ago marriage was declared unnecessary if you truly loved someone. Living together was all that was needed. The Marriage license was just a piece of paper.
Now marriage is the most important thing a person can do...but only if you are gay!”
you nailed it.
This really shouldn’t be about doctrine - this is about a right to vote one’s conscience.
How many people here have REALLY had a visit from the LDS like this?
I’ve had several visits. I debated with them. I didn’t like what they told me, and they didn’t like what I told them.
But you wouldn’t meet a more polite bunch of people, and they never stated they wanted to take away anyone’s rights!
What the gays really want is for churches to be declared “hate” organizations and shut down.
What is the purpose of the ad? They don’t think mormons should have been able to vote down prop 8?
This is crazy.
The bible is important because it documents the word of God and his dealings with man.
I seriously doubt Neoplatonic realism stems from God.
[If true] then the Doctrines & Covenants also documents the word of God and his dealings with man, just much more recently.
Its easy to see the importance.
” have no idea what Mormon thought on that is, as I am not a Mormon. There are dozens of em on the FRee Republic tho, perhaps one will enlighten us.”
Well, given that the Mormon Temple Ritual (at least until its recent changes) had a protestant minister acting the fool-for-pay for the Devil, I think I have a hunch.
It seemed to work out for Joseph Smith.
Oh; wait - he got himself killed.
Forget what I just typed.
Mormons do not call other Christians non-Cristians if the do not believe in the D&C. Understand the difference?
It seemed to work out for Jesus...
Oh; wait - he got himself killed.
Forget what I just typed.
You are correct. I commend you for making an excellent point. However, we both agree that the Gospel of John makes clear the divinity of Christ. Arianism and other faiths that reject the divinity of Christ are heretical. That includes Mormonism.
>>And the Catholic Church is not bashing Mormonism by saying so, is it?<<
Well, I’m not seeing the Vatican sending any Bishops to the Mormons to tell them so. When we get around to that, we can talk about “bashing”.
Mormons do not interpret those versus the way you do. Those verses, according to Mormon thought, are not interpreted to mean Mormons vs. all others. If you knew anything very much about Mormonism you would know that.
****I would much rather have my grandchildren being raised around people who adhere to other religions that maintain decent standards provided they arent badmouthing my religion ***
You should have seen some of the hollering and verbal jousting going on the school buses years ago between the LDS and the RLDS kids! (”Were right!” “No, WE are right!”)
Others just sat back and watched them go at it!
No, this is the Apostle’s Creed.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell. [See Calvin]
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.
Catholics say that at the beginning of the Rosary.
But the Mormons send plenty of Elders around to tell you about the invalidity of your baptism, so I guess by your formula it is the Mormons who are guilty of "bashing."
For now I will leave this discussion with you. I've diverted the thread enough.
I agree that going after the Mormons for Prop 8 is ridiculous. If the gay lobby had any guts it would go after the Catholic Church and the black churches, both of which probably had at least as much to do with its passage as the Mormons did, but they go after the Mormons because Mormons are a much weaker and easier to target minority group.
Kind of ironic that a minority group (gays) that likes to consider itself persecuted would focus its attacks on another minority group, but hey...
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God,
light from light
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father,
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the scriptures;
he ascended into Heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father:
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son.]*
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins,
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
>>Then we could discuss the clearly bigoted ad, rather than argue about the perceived shortcomings of the victim<<
The voice of reason has entered the thread. Thank you, my FRiend!
You sound an awful lot like me!
That's true, but the ad singles out Mormons as an organization devoted to depriving Americans of their rights, in fact a Church bent on taking over the government. Envious of the Jewish takeover of the banking system and media I suppose. Any station running that ad should be presumed to be comfortable running overt antisemitic or racist ads as well. When the opportunity arises, of course.
“Interesting”. I wonder what Joseph Smith’s lodge had to say about this.
***”How many divisions does San Francisco have?” ***
If an AIDS infected homo attacks you and you have to shoot him can you be arrested for biological causing warefare because he bled out in the street?
Inquiring minds want to know!
To WHICH do 'these' refer?
Its not just here at FR.
Okay, it might be a little strong to say that Mormons cannot be Christians, but I have no trouble calling Mormonism a heresy. Yes, we should be primarily concerned with our own salvation, but throughout history--going back to Biblical times--Christians have also had to guard against heresies in the church.
Nonetheless, despite my theological disagreements, I strongly respect many Mormons (who are as a group very hard working and responsible) and supported one for President in the primaries.
Mormons do not call other Latter-day Saints who believe in D&C Section 132 Mormons. In fact, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and many of its members take great offense when this happens. Recall the recent FLDS fiasco.
Seems like you are accusing your Church and many of your fellow believers of being hypocritical.
>>But the Mormons send plenty of Elders around to tell you about the invalidity of your baptism, so I guess by your formula it is the Mormons who are guilty of “bashing.”<<
I’ve had plenty of other religions come to my house to try to get me to join. I tell them I am Catholic and I’m staying that way. They don’t continue to come back and tell me how wrong my beliefs are.
Maybe others have had that happen, but I have never experienced it.
I get it.
So we can't vote for a Jew?
Or a Seventh Day Adventist??
Or a Presbyterian??
Or an athiest.
Needless to say, that logic is ridiculous.
Teddy Kennedy claims to be a devout Catholic, as does Rudy Guiliani and a host of other liberal candidates.
Romney would strengthen the conservative cause 20 times better than either, yet your "Christian FIRST" policy would prevent that from happening.
The topic is the assault upon people of faith by the sexual degenerates who have chosen as their father the father of lies a murderer from the start. But the thread is devolving into another mormon v christians scrum. Sad, because the Mormons need to be supported on this issue since it is they who are fighting the hardest and accepting the glaring exposure to preserve the institution of marriage because they hold it in such high regard! I’m outta here ...
Arianism and other faiths that reject the divinity of Christ are heretical. That includes Mormonism.
***Ive had several visits. I debated with them. I didnt like what they told me, and they didnt like what I told them.***
I have also when I lived out west in NM. Here it is mostly JWs who come around. They learn quick to stay away. I am always polite to them though.
St. John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
Take THAT you CONDEMNED non-believers!!
Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled." "You have judged correctly," Jesus said.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13
12. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13. God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
1 Corinthians 6:2-5
2. Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
3. Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
4. Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church!
5. I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers?
As a mason, I will say he boldly stole the fraternity initiation and turned it into a religion.
Pretty crappy thing to do to the fraternity for many reasons. Not only an oath-breaker, but continues to tar the fraternity with people who think it is a religion.
Go to Wikipedia on the Nicene Creed and search for “anathema.”
Mormons have only done that by accepting an even bigger heresy: polytheism.
What's the MORMON teaching on WHEN Jesus became devine?
> The topic is the assault upon people of faith by the sexual degenerates who have chosen as their father the father of lies a murderer from the start. But the thread is devolving into another mormon v christians scrum. Sad, because the Mormons need to be supported on this issue since it is they who are fighting the hardest and accepting the glaring exposure to preserve the institution of marriage because they hold it in such high regard! Im outta here ...
Yup — I’m right behind you!
The thousands of Christians who joined the mormons in the battle will be pleased to hear that. /sarc
The mormons have gladly accepted that description, and boasted about it as you are doing...why then would any of you be surprised that the anti prop 8 faction would choose to single mormons out for their protests?
It appears that if you welcome the fame, you should expect the blame.
I only wanted to inform you, not debate you. If you want a debate, you may find someone else to oblige you.
The mormons, however, do not return the favor, with their Temple ritual (while it has been recently cleaned up) belittling and mocking the Nicean Creed and the churches that profess it:
“Lucifer employs a Christian Minister as his hireling lackey to confuse, deceive, and destroy all mankind along with Adam and Eve. He preaches to them a comical perversion of the 3rd century Nicean Creed, which Adam rejects, employing sarcasm and ridicule to develop audience contempt, but without hissing or booing, as was done in prior decades.”
Nah, I’m not actually that interested in a debate. As a former atheist I really feel that my calling is debating atheists. I just got involved because of the contention that calling X a heresy is an act of hate. It is not.
Close the barn door!!!
Imagine if he was in a wheelchair! No one could lead this country in that condition.
There were enough reasons not to elect McCain without using his physical condition as a reason.